Please Rethink Scorpions

[Dazko]

At least shockwave moas have a charge time and a predictable attack that can be dodged.

Sheild lancers have a moment where they have to pull back to hit and even then they have to run up to you.

Scorpions are just annoying, not "challenging", annoying.

 

Enemies that knock you down all have some sort of pattern that make them easily dodged when against a skilled player but scorpion's only pattern is constantly pissing players off. Please think of something to make them tolerable.

[khimera]

At the same time, the guaranteed stuns that the grineer heavy units have are really annoying as well. Especially the heavy gunners who appear most frequently and appear in the void. the shockwaves they let off don't reach off the ground and yet in the air, using a sliding jump with a running start, I've been flung prone by the stun-wave they give off. It needs to be tweaked so it doesn't hit you when you're in the air or give it a less misleading radius.

 

Just figured I'd add something to this since I'm aggrieved with the scorpions as well as the heavy unit stuns.

[Stefe]

Heavy Grineer units will only use their knockdowns when you're NEARBY; keep your distance, and you'll have no problems with them. As for the Scorpions, I think they have a minimum range before they'll use their hooks. This can give you time to take them down before they get at you.

[CY13ERPUNK]

you can dodge the scorpions harpoon

SA - situational awareness

l2dodge

please stop trying to make this game more easy mode than it already is =[, we need MORE difficult enemy tactics not less

enemy difficulty should be based around difficult tactics NOT stupid high hp/armor and bullet sponge mechanics

[Xylia]

you can dodge the scorpions harpoon

SA - situational awareness

l2dodge

please stop trying to make this game more easy mode than it already is =[, we need MORE difficult enemy tactics not less

enemy difficulty should be based around difficult tactics NOT stupid high hp/armor and bullet sponge mechanics

 

Scorpions do not require Line of Sight, and can shoot their hook through other enemies.

 

There have been times I was shooting at this wall of Lancers in front of me and WHAM. I'm on my butt sliding towards not only the Scorpion but her lancer boyfriends who are elbow-punching me around. *rolls eyes*

 

Couldn't see the stupid Scorpion for all the lancers in front of her.

 

How exactly was I supposed to "l2dodge" something you had no warning was coming?

 

Or what about the million times a Scorpion grabs me from below or above on a railing and somehow manages to drag me halfway up there? Yeah that's fair. Apparently they can shoot their hook through solid obstacles too.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Xylia

[Bleghy]

My idea for them is to make it so you after a brief knock down, you can shoot while being pulled towards them.

You are a ninja after all, I think you can manage to roll onto your back and at least hip fire a bit.

[Dazko]

you can dodge the scorpions harpoon

SA - situational awareness

l2dodge

please stop trying to make this game more easy mode than it already is =[, we need MORE difficult enemy tactics not less

enemy difficulty should be based around difficult tactics NOT stupid high hp/armor and bullet sponge mechanics

learn the difference between punishing and challenging

If you have little to no chance to dodge the hooks  then there is a problem. 

You have no warnings or queues that alert you to the situation and it screws you over.

[X3Evanescence]

When I am spamming slide attacks, the harpoons does not seem to hit me. You can try that....

[Dazko]

Heavy Grineer units will only use their knockdowns when you're NEARBY; keep your distance, and you'll have no problems with them. As for the Scorpions, I think they have a minimum range before they'll use their hooks. This can give you time to take them down before they get at you.

they also only use it once so they are not a problem, they are easy to manage if you are aware of the situation. The range on the their bang could be adjusted tho, it seems like it's inescapable even if you dash past them.

 

Scorpions hit you through enemies, have near perfect aim, no chance to respond or charge time and are one of the faster Grineer units. They make rollers seem like a dream enemy type.

[X3Evanescence]

At least it is much easier to aim at Scorpions than those Rollers...

[rksk16it]

Use shade.

 

Seriously, get rid of that stupid cube with a machine gun, and build that little thing which hides you even from the stalker. Next time scorpion pulls you, watch as shade hides you... *facepalm*

[CrazyCanadian24]

you can dodge the scorpions harpoon

SA - situational awareness

l2dodge

please stop trying to make this game more easy mode than it already is =[, we need MORE difficult enemy tactics not less

enemy difficulty should be based around difficult tactics NOT stupid high hp/armor and bullet sponge mechanics

 

Yes, you can dodge a Scorpion's harpoon, and I agree, this game could use a little more difficulty, but the Scorpion is an example of false difficulty. There is literally no telegraphing of her harpoon attack whatsoever, and her harpoon attack is far too detrimental for there to be no warning to prompt the player to dodge it.

 

I'm not going to complain about the very narrow window for dodging, either, because that's not false difficulty - not having any telegraphing before a powerful attack with a narrow dodge window, however, is.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

you can dodge the scorpions harpoon

SA - situational awareness

l2dodge

please stop trying to make this game more easy mode than it already is =[, we need MORE difficult enemy tactics not less

enemy difficulty should be based around difficult tactics NOT stupid high hp/armor and bullet sponge mechanics

Scorpions are punishing (hard to see projectile, doesn't need LoS, disables for a large amount of time, no windup/tells), not difficult. Difficult would be a slower projectile, which even if it was hard to see (although some points of energy on it or something would be nice) Challenging is completely different, where if you mess up, it's your fault. Punishing is when you die/loss/whatever it was because something was unfair

[Dazko]

I think they should just do what they did with all other knock down enemies, give the scorpion a charge sequence

[fatpig84]

Scorpions do not require Line of Sight, and can shoot their hook through other enemies.

 

There have been times I was shooting at this wall of Lancers in front of me and WHAM. I'm on my butt sliding towards not only the Scorpion but her lancer boyfriends who are elbow-punching me around. *rolls eyes*

 

Couldn't see the stupid Scorpion for all the lancers in front of her.

 

How exactly was I supposed to "l2dodge" something you had no warning was coming?

 

Or what about the million times a Scorpion grabs me from below or above on a railing and somehow manages to drag me halfway up there? Yeah that's fair. Apparently they can shoot their hook through solid obstacles too.

 

 

I love it when she does that.

I get free cover since Shade kicks in immediately and I will be in the middle of a full pack.

That can set me up for any ability.

 

In fact as Vauban on offense games, I COUNT on scorpions to pull me in for easy bastille of entire groups since I can't be knocked down again once being dragged by her and grineer aim tends to suck if you are sliding on high speed.

Edited August 4, 2013 by fatpig84

[Madotsuki]

The Scorpion needs a complete re-do, not just a charge sequence.

I'd rather Scorpions be raised to elite-class (i.e. Heavies), with reduced spawn rate but being tougher overall, like having shields and better health/armor (and a new model too. i mean, GEEZ the current scorpion is ugly). Have them make a unique and noticeable sound when they fire the hook, maybe some kind of "clank" sound when the hook primes itself, before firing. If the hook misses, she'll either retreat to recharge the hook (if there are enough Grineer nearby to cover for her and if she's far enough away) or just charge with the machete. If the hook hits, the player is knocked down and dragged towards her. However, the victim can still shoot while being dragged, and the Scorpion will not release the victim until death. Instead, she will drag the player to her and start thrashing at the player with her machete in a killing frenzy, only releasing the hook on death. As a fail-safe in case the player gets stuck on terrain, the hook will detach on its own if the dragged player doesn't reach the scorpion in 10 seconds.

This would make the Scorpion a lot more interesting to fight, a lot more threatening when her hook hits instead of just annoying, and also fix that weird glitch where sometimes the hook drags you and sometimes it just knocks you down while the Scorp gets to attack instantly. Thoughts?

[CY13ERPUNK]

AFAIK scorpions DO require line of sight, ive never had one pull me through a wall or from behind a crate or corner

i have had them shoot at me from railings or around edges and it looks like the harpoon is clipping, but i attributed that to delay in the server and clipping issues, is it beyond reason/belief that the scorpion can peek out from a corner to fire at you?

i dodge scorpion harpoons all the time, it's fairly obvious when i see one that when she points at me that a harpoon is coming, i dont really think she should scream out loud and wave a flag before she attacks (kinda what it seems like this thread is asking for)

of course i have been caught and pulled before, just like ive been knocked down before and stomped on, but S#&$ happens, you make mistakes, if i NEVER died then the game would be boring and too easy

from the complaints i see on the forums it's like DE needs to make a dream-mode to satisfy the people that cannot learn to deal with rollers/scorpions/heavygrineer/moas/etc (also notice it's always the mass of threads about the new mobs, but after awhile you hardly hear anything about the older ones)

when i say l2play i realize it's easier said than done, but srsly if after a few games you cannot learn to deal with the new enemies.... i just dont know what to say, maybe read some david sirlin about game theory and scrubs (and please lose the ego, part of a "challenge" is that not everyone can make it)

i will concede however that being able to fire while being dragged makes sense, say a short stun when first grabbed but then you can start shooting while being dragged (unless they want to give the scorpion some kind of electro-whip which could lore-up the idea of the harpoon immobilizing the tenno)

Edited August 4, 2013 by CY13ERPUNK

[LazyKnight]

when i say l2play i realize it's easier said than done, but srsly if after a few games you cannot learn to deal with the new enemies.... i just dont know what to say, maybe read some david sirlin about game theory and scrubs (and please lose the ego, part of a "challenge" is that not everyone can make it)

 

I can deal with them without that much difficulty just a disclaimer: I do not lose sleep over them.

 

They are boring NPC similar to the grappler NPC in ninja gaiden 2(Or any terrible fighting game where grapple combos dominate ) that just auto hit you when you are in a certain range.

 

They are just cheap or dirty tactics NPC that fall into the " PC is a cheater" as opposed to anything else. I would prefer they just had a whip and smacked you from range like the Ancients and didn't cause a knock down.

[xenapan]

they also only use it once so they are not a problem, they are easy to manage if you are aware of the situation. The range on the their bang could be adjusted tho, it seems like it's inescapable even if you dash past them.

 

Scorpions hit you through enemies, have near perfect aim, no chance to respond or charge time and are one of the faster Grineer units. They make rollers seem like a dream enemy type.

they have CRAP for aim. after the whole "no longer autohit" their hooks miss all the time.

[ClockworkSpectre]

Scorpions piss me off, but the only 'fix' I think they need is to not be able to shoot through obstacles, hell that only makes sense. 

 

The problem I have with the Grineer is the damn rollers being able to stagger you when you ARE IN THE AIR.... F***.  

[direcyphre]

Can't say I've ever had a problem with Scorpions once they fixed them a ways back. They used to hit you no matter what, and would continue doing so if there was more than one in the area. Then it was changed so we saw the flying cable. So long as you aren't standing still (literally, just strafing to one side) they are pretty easy to dodge. The only odd things that occur are when they fling them at you when you're up on a platform somewhere which is a little silly.

[W4RM4CHIN3]

I thought you meant redo them from scrap. When i think of scorpions i think of deadly fast sharp stingers. If you guys know about scorpions once they sting and retract the tail, it breaks off and it dies. It would be awesome if they incorporated that. It does a high damage attack but dies soon after. Kinda like how runners explode.

[Paradoxbomb]

I thought you meant redo them from scrap. When i think of scorpions i think of deadly fast sharp stingers. If you guys know about scorpions once they sting and retract the tail, it breaks off and it dies. It would be awesome if they incorporated that. It does a high damage attack but dies soon after. Kinda like how runners explode.

 

Which Scorpions specifically? I'm fairly certain most scorpion's stingers don't break off. I mean they use that to kill their prey, so they eat once and die?

 

Scorpion biology aside, I think their tether is fair enough now, though I agree it would be awesome if we could shoot them as they drag us towards them. I'm really wondering when DE is going to update their dialouge to have every single one scream "GET OVER HERE" in that shrill, messed up voice of theirs.

 

Every. Single. One.