Buffing is more important than Nerfing (Primaries)

[Gandergear]

Generally people complaining for wanting nerfs are dumb, people enjoy their stupid overpowered things because they're inherently fun and allow us to push for higher level content. So instead of nerfing weapons that are fun to use, lets buff weapons that are 'MR Fodder' to make them viable in the play space after Level 6 enemies. Please not that "Increase DAM" doesn't mean add 30 damage, it means a 5-10% increase, increase SC/CC however call for flat 5-15% increases unless otherwise stated. 

This first post only goes over primaries because this takes a long time to make ya know.

BASELINE STATS (Are representative of a good baseline, weps can be better and slightly worse, but they shouldn't be more than 10% weaker, RIVENS ARE NEGLECTED)

Spoiler

RIFLES/SHOTGUNS/BOWS

RIFLE: Rifles can either be geared towards SC or CC, sometimes both, but they should NEVER be geared towards neither

Quartakk: 19% CC, 2.3x CD, 27% SC, 27DAM/Ammo

SHOTGUNS: Shotguns need to deal high damage at short range, most excel at this but there are a few that need to be reworked into usefulness

Vaykor Hek: 25% SC, SEMI, 525 DAM, 25% CC, 2x CD, 25%SC

BOW: All bows should be geared for crit, status isn't efficient nor effective when you fire only one at a time, the notable exception would be the Cernos Prime, which comes later. For the most part bows are in a good spot already.

Rakta Cernos: 1/4s charge time, 35% CC, 2x CD, 125 DAM

List of bad weapons that Don't need to be reworked.

MK1 weapons: They're intended for instant purchase for a measly pittance of your pocket change, then they should be replaced by a useful weapon, for example, the not MK1 variants.

List of weapons that need to be reworked.

Spoiler

 

RIFLES

Argonak: Needs more crit chance to allow hybrid builds, it's screaming for it with its light up mechanic!

Boltor Series: Need much more CC and SC Normal 17/17, Telos 10/27 Prime 27/10 would be a good starting point

Braton Series: Normal: needs more crit/SC, Prime: needs slightly more CC/SC 15&25% respectively, Vandal: change CC/SC to 25%/15% to inverse the prime variant

Burston Series: increase CC/SC across the board, there's no reason the prime variant shouldn't have say, a base 40% crit chance with its current damage with 25% status. Otherwise increase base DAM as well.

Dera Series: Increase CC/SC

Gorgon Series: Increase CC/SC following each's flavor

Harpak: Increase DAM

Hema: Increase SC to 30%

Hind: Increase CC/SC & DAM

Karak Series: Increase CC/SC

Latron Series: Increase base DAM across the board by about 5-10

Stradavar: Increase SC/CC

Supra Series: Increase CC/SC to 15/20% respectively

Tenora: Increase base DAM slightly

Tetra Series: Increase SC/CC

Tiberon: Increase CC and SC to 15/15, reinforcing its mid game force while letting it be useful beyond that as well.

CONT Fire

Flux Rifle: increase CC and DAM

Glaxion: Increase DAM to about 50 Cold

Ignis Series: Increase CC

Quanta series: Increase DAM, CC, SC on primary fire

Synapse: Lower CC to 30%, increase DAM to 45

SHOTGUNS
Boar Series: Increase DAM

Convectrix: Increase CC and SC

Phage: Increase SC and DAM

SNIPERS

Lanka: increase charge speed

LAUNCHERS:

Miter: Inc CC

Ogris: Inc impact DAM, SC, CC

Panthera: Inc CC,SC

Penta Series: Inc SC CC

Simulor Series: Inc CC & explosion damage to ~225

Tonkor: Remove self damage OR return CC/CD back to its original value

Torid: Increase AOE

 

 

 

[Rabbid-]

Actually, bow does require staus chance like dread wherein high-level missions, you don't kill enemies with damage, you kill them with the slash proc and for that you need status chance

[YUNoJump]

Nerfing tends to favour weapons that have no thought involved, rather than just "overpowered" weapons. If that was the only factor then the Tigris Prime, Soma Prime, Boltor Prime or Hek series would have been touched at all in their lives, but they have never been nerfed at all. In fact, if DE wanted to keep weapons from being overpowered, then we wouldn't be in the situation where dozens of weapons only become challenged at levels far above what is relevant to missions outside of endurance. The Tonkor was nerfed because it had no self damage for no reason, the Simulor was nerfed because it dealt damage without even requiring aiming. 

People can have fun with overpowered stuff, but weapons that require no thought to achieve good results are bad for the game. Challenge and strategy are good things.

[Gandergear]

2 hours ago, Rabbid- said:

Actually, bow does require staus chance like dread wherein high-level missions, you don't kill enemies with damage, you kill them with the slash proc and for that you need status chance

Spoiler

hunter munitions

 

2 hours ago, YUNoJump said:

no thought

is what everyone thought when they nerfed the tonkor two-fold

[ChaoticEdge]

ugh enough the nerfing, we already nerf once, we already nerf twice we aren't doing 3rd one because we already have riven mods doing their jobs because its free anyone can get it. Don't blame the weapons because its too powerful or either take too slow.  "Test it before you start saying" stuff that is simple answer you are getting.

Edited February 5, 2018 by ChaoticEdge

[Valgaarv]

If DE idea is to give us more options, then nerfing things is not the way, yes tonkor and simulor needed a nerf because they where preventing other players to play in the same mission, but other weapons are getting unnecessary nerfs.

Maybe not all the weapons should be buffed, because the game needs bad weapons in early game to not become a super ultra easy game with no fun, but i agree that some of the listed weapons need a buff to be a thing.

[Doomsknightmare]

Not only primaries, there're so many secondaries and melees which suck even with good riven *cough [Hind] [Tiberon] [Kraken] [Seer] [Mire] [Fang Prime] etc*

[AcceptYourDeath]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Gandergear:

Generally people complaining for wanting nerfs are dumb

Ohhhhhhhh that`s why! I must have confused it with passion during my 25 years in gaming when I was complaining about broken, boring or unbalanced stuff! 

 

[Kayll]

If you just buff every weapon in the game, then the game is too easy, then you have to buff the enemies.. and then some weapons would fall off again... so on and so on.

Its much simpler to replace the two misshapen bricks in the wall than try to reshape every other one to accustom those that do not fit.

[Gandergear]

9 hours ago, Kayll said:

If you just buff every weapon in the game, then the game is too easy, then you have to buff the enemies.. and then some weapons would fall off again... so on and so on.

Its much simpler to replace the two misshapen bricks in the wall than try to reshape every other one to accustom those that do not fit.

What we get however is good weapons being rendered useless, no one uses tonkor, telos boltace and simulor anymore because theyre now objectively bad, DE clearly shows they dont want to do a careful job so i suggest we buff weapons to a DESCRIBED baseline i assume you didnt bother reading. I didnt say buff everything to tig P or soma P, i said buff to vaykor hek and quartakk, two really good but not OP weapons. Keeping 75% of weapons in the are in an unusable state is the biggest waste de wants to push, and changing their SC and CC is the easiest fix for that.

[Kayll]

12 minutes ago, Gandergear said:

What we get however is good weapons being rendered useless, no one uses tonkor, telos boltace and simulor anymore because theyre now objectively bad, DE clearly shows they dont want to do a careful job so i suggest we buff weapons to a DESCRIBED baseline i assume you didnt bother reading. I didnt say buff everything to tig P or soma P, i said buff to vaykor hek and quartakk, two really good but not OP weapons. Keeping 75% of weapons in the are in an unusable state is the biggest waste de wants to push, and changing their SC and CC is the easiest fix for that.

I did read it,its the same as every other "buff every weapon in the game" threads there's already a million of that don't seem to understand that doing that is a massive undertaking that just leads to more issues,not to mention that some weapons simply fail mechanically so simply giving them bigger numbers doesn't exactly fix them..
Never said you wanted everything at Tigris or Soma levels either.

[(XBOX)Godlike13]

While I agree some guns like the Braton P and Burston P could use a buff, turning every gun into CC/SC hybrids would be quite boring. That should not be the answer for evey gun. 

Edited February 5, 2018 by (XB1)Godlike13

[Gandergear]

18 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Godlike13 said:

While I agree some guns like the Braton P and Burston P could use a buff, turning every gun into CC/SC hybrids would be quite boring. That should not be the answer for evey gun. 

All weapons need to either fit into a status, crit, or hybrid slot to be viable past level 'base star chart' not every gun needs to be hybrid etc, but there should be no weapon with 5% crit and 7.5% status

[ChaoticEdge]

18 hours ago, Valgaarv said:

If DE idea is to give us more options, then nerfing things is not the way, yes tonkor and simulor needed a nerf because they where preventing other players to play in the same mission, but other weapons are getting unnecessary nerfs.

Maybe not all the weapons should be buffed, because the game needs bad weapons in early game to not become a super ultra easy game with no fun, but i agree that some of the listed weapons need a buff to be a thing.

they did, its call using your research and read carefully.

Edited February 5, 2018 by ChaoticEdge

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

5 hours ago, Gandergear said:

What we get however is good weapons being rendered useless, no one uses tonkor, telos boltace and simulor anymore because theyre now objectively bad, DE clearly shows they dont want to do a careful job so i suggest we buff weapons to a DESCRIBED baseline i assume you didnt bother reading. I didnt say buff everything to tig P or soma P, i said buff to vaykor hek and quartakk, two really good but not OP weapons. Keeping 75% of weapons in the are in an unusable state is the biggest waste de wants to push, and changing their SC and CC is the easiest fix for that.

I’m still waiting for DE to buff the Telos Boltace from its terrible rework after the Weapon Balance Pass. I’m not even asking for a complete dismissal of the weapon’s overall rework and going back to its original iteration, I’m asking for another look at its current form.

Right now, the Telos Boltace is in a terrible place because of the ragdoll effect on the second slide attack, the awful syndicate ability cooldown on slide attacks, and that the second slide effect is the only one able to break boxes from a distance.

What the Telos Boltace needs right now is the complete removal of the secondary ragdoll slide effect, the removal of the syndicate ability cooldown effect, and making the vacuum slide attack do a smidge more damage that it’s able to break boxes from a distance. Once these changes get implemented into the Telos Boltace, its form factor will rise ten-fold anf player usage will progressively rise again.

C’mon DE, you have to listen to the player feedback on this syndicate melee weapon. Stop ignoring it, this weapon needs to change for the better.

[Valgaarv]

Il y a 5 heures, ChaoticEdge a dit :

 

 

Edited February 6, 2018 by Valgaarv

[Twilight053]

They just buffed like 100+ primaries and secondaries, OP.

[Gandergear]

12 hours ago, Twilight053 said:

They just buffed like 100+ primaries and secondaries, OP.

Ya i was 1 day ahead of them, spooky!