Respectfully, I think "Damage percent" mods need their own slot.

[Guest]

At least read what I wrote above before replying to me. I am simply saying, if they take away my Serration, they have to buff the weapon damage to compensate for the loss of the Serration. I am not arguing they have to remove Serration, only saying that if Serration has to go, it must be compensated for fairly. The whole argument for removal of Serration in the first place is because you have to put it on the gun anyway. There is no other option which can take its place. This is true for all the main base damage mods.

Also, the difference now is that the max rank Serration, after you reach it, can go on any gun. This is true for all base damage mods. If they moved the damage scaling to the gun level, then each new gun would require new damage gain from scratch, which is in fact a lot more annoying than simply putting the Serration on the gun.

Honestly I wouldn't care so long as my weapon damage didn't change. I simply dislike self gimping, that is all.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

18 hours ago, peterc3 said:

This is Bad. On top of this, you'd have an empty slot and a dozen+ extra capacity. This is naked power creep of the worst kind.

How can every weapon getting the same flat damage buff be considered 'Naked Power Creep'???

If that is the case all Melee Stealth Finishers got 'Naked Power Creep' when Stealth 2.0 changed Melee finishers to scaling with Weapon level and having the same final multiplier regardless of melee Weapon class/type.

@BBaw

You are saying it is a free Endo/Credits/etc.. but it not cut and dry like that as the weapons are leveled individually.

Using the same Melee Stealth Finisher scaling with Weapon level rank : I do not see people saying that it is a free Finishing Touch.

Finishing Touch on an Unranked Melee weapon is a weaker Stealth Melee Multiplier than an unmodded Rank 30 Stealth Melee Multiplier.(To be clear, that means the Mod is weaker than the built-in scaling damage based on ranking the weapon's level up)*

[peterc3]

43 minutes ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

How can every weapon getting the same flat damage buff be considered 'Naked Power Creep'???

If that is the case all Melee Stealth Finishers got 'Naked Power Creep' when Stealth 2.0 changed Melee finishers to scaling with Weapon level and having the same final multiplier regardless of melee Weapon class/type.

@BBaw

You are saying it is a free Endo/Credits/etc.. but it not cut and dry like that as the weapons are leveled individually.

Using the same Melee Stealth Finisher scaling with Weapon level rank : I do not see people saying that it is a free Finishing Touch.

Finishing Touch on an Unranked Melee weapon is a weaker Stealth Melee Multiplier than an unmodded Rank 30 Stealth Melee Multiplier.(To be clear, that means the Mod is weaker than the built-in scaling damage based on ranking the weapon's level up)*

You went beyond even the Primed mods. Power Creep isn't something specific being buffed beyond everything else, it's everything being raised to a level that makes it trivial to do the already easy content now.

Naked Power Creep is just straight up asking for everything to be buffed. It won't happen.

[BBaw]

1 hour ago, (PS4)MrNishi said:

How can every weapon getting the same flat damage buff be considered 'Naked Power Creep'???

If that is the case all Melee Stealth Finishers got 'Naked Power Creep' when Stealth 2.0 changed Melee finishers to scaling with Weapon level and having the same final multiplier regardless of melee Weapon class/type.

@BBaw

You are saying it is a free Endo/Credits/etc.. but it not cut and dry like that as the weapons are leveled individually.

Using the same Melee Stealth Finisher scaling with Weapon level rank : I do not see people saying that it is a free Finishing Touch.

Finishing Touch on an Unranked Melee weapon is a weaker Stealth Melee Multiplier than an unmodded Rank 30 Stealth Melee Multiplier.(To be clear, that means the Mod is weaker than the built-in scaling damage based on ranking the weapon's level up)*

I just don't think you really understand what you're suggesting to be honest.  I've heard this suggestion a lot and the arguments for it,  and I completely understand what the reasoning is.  But, it seems that everyone that brings this is up keeps being on that same one track mind about it and isn't taking EVERYTHING into consideration.  This is a huge deal.  I can promise you at this stage in the game DE would absolutely not entertain this idea at all.   That isn't to say that later on down the road as a result of growth and changes and whatever may come this may or may not be a good idea.  But, for right now, absolutely not.  We don't even have content in the game that would warrant the change.

If you can show a need for the added damage somewhere, actually everywhere because this increases damage across the board, but if you can show that need,  then you might have the beginnings of an argument.  That is gonna be pretty tough to do, though, until they add new content to the game.

[taiiat]

a few Mods aren't the issue. it's all Mods. removing one Mod from the equation moves the next one in it's place and makes literally the same situation over again.

all Damage Mods have values that are ridiculously high, and the reasonably balanced for the most part Utility / tradeoff Mods that compete for the same Slots, ergo don't get used.
the solution isn't removing or changing one Mod. it's changing all Mods in context of each other. for me, ideally making all Mods Corrupted Mods with negatives that really matter. then every Mod is a choice and people use different Mods on every Weapon.

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

Naked Power Creep is just straight up asking for everything to be buffed. It won't happen.

^{_{(not unless it's new and says Prime on it, apparently? *shrug* idk)}}

Edited March 7, 2018 by taiiat

[(PSN)MrNishi]

1 hour ago, BBaw said:

I just don't think you really understand what you're suggesting to be honest.  I've heard this suggestion a lot and the arguments for it,  and I completely understand what the reasoning is.  But, it seems that everyone that brings this is up keeps being on that same one track mind about it and isn't taking EVERYTHING into consideration.  This is a huge deal.  I can promise you at this stage in the game DE would absolutely not entertain this idea at all.   That isn't to say that later on down the road as a result of growth and changes and whatever may come this may or may not be a good idea.  But, for right now, absolutely not.  We don't even have content in the game that would warrant the change.

If you can show a need for the added damage somewhere, actually everywhere because this increases damage across the board, but if you can show that need,  then you might have the beginnings of an argument.  That is gonna be pretty tough to do, though, until they add new content to the game.

I can agree that nothing in the game warrants a need for damage buff or even for the Base Damage mods to be removed.

2 hours ago, peterc3 said:

You went beyond even the Primed mods. Power Creep isn't something specific being buffed beyond everything else, it's everything being raised to a level that makes it trivial to do the already easy content now.

Naked Power Creep is just straight up asking for everything to be buffed. It won't happen.

Didn't DE do "Naked Power Creep'" for all Melee weapons with Melee combo counter and again when Melee Stealth Finishers 800% at level 30 with 800% Stealth Multiplier would be 6400% Total Stealth Melee Multiplier.

That is well above 600% (4800% Total) Hammers used to have or 300% Dual Daggers (2400% Total) used to have.

• Finisher damage will now increase based on weapon rank and enemy level. Finisher Damage for stealth kills capped at 8x damage with max rank melee weapon!

I guess enemy Armor scaling being changed would also be 'Naked Power Creep' as it would only be a straight buff to players.

Thank you for taking the time to define that for me.

The 10% per level suggestion was more to show that DE could implement on a way that players don't feel they are being nerfed Numerical Value wise.

Although they could always in turn readjust enemy level or base effective health values.

Like Teralyst recent level buff, but they also reduced base Health/Shields/Armor/Damage...making the Teralyst weaker at equivalent level. Overall effect was to increase shown level of Teralyst but retain same hit-points as previous fight.

DE raising weapon values for players, but also raising enemy base hit-points would accomplish the same thing. Only players only looking at stat values would see it as a buff.(Ie...weapons have larger damage numbers, but Enemies have more health , thus time to kill remains stagnant)*

In the end: removal of Base damage mods is not necessary.

Not needed for current content and I believe there are other more pertinent issues that need to be addressed.

 

[Trentiel]

Let's consider what Steve said in a devstream a while back. They're not removing the core damage mods, because "players like their power." Until otherwise, I would consider this pretty final.

So there are still three options DE could take.

1. Continue to leave everything the as is. No change. Status Quo. We're living this option right now.
2. Remove base damage mods and build them into the gun level. Steve said no, they're not doing this. So this option is out, for now...
3. Give mandatory mods like Serration competition.

There are a few arguments for keeping core damage mods. Consider this:

1. By making your weapon power linked to a mod, you can equalize power gain across multiple weapons. Creating a smoother arms race between the player's arsenal and the progression of enemy levels across the star chart.
2. With base power being tied to specific mod, you can actually mod for less power. That way a veteran player can choose to nerf their weaponry when playing with a new players, so they can play at equal footing.

Now the arguments for a dedicated slot for base-damage mods.

1. Because these mods are so very essential, having a dedicated slot means that you can teach a player how important they are right away.
2. When you set aside a specific slot for these mods, it raises the question. How would you feel about Aura slots if there was only 1 Aura mod, Energy Siphon? You might argue "why bother with a mod and slot at all, why not just make the aura innate?" But there's a flip side to that, and we're living it. We don't just have 1 Aura mod. We have a huge abundance of aura mods, and there genuinely is a lot of choice in picking which one to use.
3. Base-damage competition. Choosing between using say... +165% base-damage Serration and +330% base-damage / -55% accuracy Heavy Caliber. The idea is basically, they would all add base-damage but they'd also provide a trade off or additional bonus. Allowing real choice, rather than just slotting Serration into everything.
4. If there are multiple flavors of base-damage mods, each having a unique trade-off. You could present the player with a choice of 3 flavors of base-damage mods through the tutorial quests. Similar to the choice in starter frames / weapons. Directly giving them access to one of these mods, helping introduce the importance of these highly essential damage mods. Then letting the player track down the others as they progress.

[Eljureo]

This... Remove mandatory damage and multishot mods... 

There were ideas like this around for ages. For the fun of it my Grinlok now does not have Serration anymore. Primed Shred took its place.

Sure damage is down 30% but more fun to more targets faster.

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

Personally I only see two sides to it and both of them are "get it out of my mod slot". You can put a special slot in for it. Or you can just get rid of the mod entirely and balance down enemy scaling so that it isn't needed.

If they rework the balancing, so that all you need is your plus 90s here, your plus 60s there, your status buffs yonder, then the issue is fixed. 

Someone up yonder implied "this will cause a power creep".... What do you think we're in? Right now people stack every mod that increases damage one on top of another. There's no real strategy to it you're just trying to make sure you do the most damage in the shortest amount of time. That is the most boring bland combat experience, and it inevitably shows up in most games of this type...

There are so many mods that would make the game more interesting to play and you'll never use any of them because you have to make sure that your frame and weapon is built to have the max effect in the shortest time. A power creep has already happened but rather then making people too strong it's driven people to ignore more interesting mods for more powerful mods.. There's so much you have to have, there's no way to cram in some you just want to have...

Dispatch overdirve. Here's a mod that is honestly one of the best melee mods in the game. People don't know it. Don't use it. Someone out there this very minute is typing "what the hell that mod sucks!"... Because once you get up to high enough level, it's effectiveness becomes reduced. If your builds are too full of mods that you cannot not have, that you have no room for mods you'd rather have but can't afford to trade something out for because you can't do enough damage, you've built the system wrong.

Edited March 7, 2018 by (PS4)Echo_X

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

On 3/6/2018 at 4:15 AM, peterc3 said:

This is Bad. On top of this, you'd have an empty slot and a dozen+ extra capacity. This is naked power creep of the worst kind.

I just thought I'd share. I was browsing the internet and thought of you. Just thought you'd like to know that people think of you when you're not around.