Defection is just not fun at all

[DTFinn]

Hello everyone!

So I'm pretty sure that im not the first one who mentions it, but I gonna say it anyways.

Oh and for all native speakers, I'm sorry if there will be some grammar and vocab mistakes.

So as you probably know, you need to play Defection to get Harrows Systems. Drop chance is at 12% or so. So in theory you need atleast 10 runs before running into that systems BP. So 8 squads in an run, since it only drops rotation C.

I did 3 rounds now. And each ended after 4 Squads.

The first one, a door that was in my way to get to the squad just simply didnt opened, therefore I had to complete with only 2 squads rescued. Idk if the tileset is just broken or if DE simply didnt want me to complete that. 

Second and third one I just quitted early since the AI of the Squad is just dumb. Srsly I had 7 dudes out of 6 Squads who randomly ran into walls and never went past them. They simply ran into the wall until they died. I mean as Trinity I can heal them, but I cant tell them how to path correctly.

This paired with the annoying knock down effects from ancients and moas, makes this mode simply unfun. Challenging in an unfair way (Closed doors and dumb AI) way and straight up not worth playing.

I played solo, since no one plays this mode, for a reason.

So my question is; why the #*!% is one of the coolest frames in the game behind that dam mission? How Am I supposed to get through 10 runs, when 3 out of 3 were broken in one way or another?! 

I mean the spy missions were unfun enough, but atleast possible with smth like Loki and ciphers.

But this? This is just unfair and absolutely boring.

Guess, no Harrow then.

[(XBOX)Skidplay 490]

2 minutes ago, TheRealTimmey said:

 

The first one, a door that was in my way to get to the squad just simply didnt opened, therefore I had to complete with only 2 squads rescued. Idk if the tileset is just broken or if DE simply didnt want me to complete that. 

Second and third one I just quitted early since the AI of the Squad is just dumb. Srsly I had 7 dudes out of 6 Squads who randomly ran into walls and never went past them. They simply ran into the wall until they died. I mean as Trinity I can heal them, but I cant tell them how to path correctly.

you should probably report these as bugs so de can get to them in the next hotfix. there are tons of bugs popping up right now on every platform.

[tarfeef101]

14 minutes ago, (XB1)Skidplay 490 said:

you should probably report these as bugs so de can get to them in the next hotfix. there are tons of bugs popping up right now on every platform.

they've been reported... Ai is not easy, and it seems DE doesn't have the expertise, time, or priorities lined up to fix it.

but besides the S#&$ty AI, I think a lot of people don't enjoy babysitting people for an endless game type. a crypod with a bunch of health is manageable. but babysitting squishy idiots for 2 hours doesn't sound nearly as fun. 

[DTFinn]

Yeah, like its just frustrating. Just did another run, and another door which simply decided to stay closed. Im just done, if it was DE's plan to make people pay for him with Plat, they achieved their goal...

[Chipputer]

15 minutes ago, tarfeef101 said:

they've been reported... Ai is not easy, and it seems DE doesn't have the expertise, time, or priorities lined up to fix it.

Most of these bugs sound like they're a result of the latest mainline as I've never experienced the AI getting stuck on anything since they fixed the pathing in that one room with the U shaped obstacle in the middle of the four way intersection.

So, no, I doubt this has been reported in the manner you're thinking it has.

3 minutes ago, TheRealTimmey said:

another door which simply decided to stay closed.

You sure you're not trying to run down the path to extraction? That always has a locked door in the way.

17 minutes ago, tarfeef101 said:

a lot of people don't enjoy babysitting people for an endless game type.

A lot of people aren't babysitting anything. They're using Oberon or Trinity to remove that element from the game mode.

17 minutes ago, tarfeef101 said:

a crypod with a bunch of health is manageable

Yes. It's so manageable that we have to spam Frost globes around it because of the fact that it eventually gets one shot. You know, the entire reason that Sorties don't use a static object and, instead, use an operative that we can heal and revive.

[HisokaXEveryone]

Can't help with the bugginess, but the trick to this mode's Limbo. Banish the NPCs when they're moving between areas, then unbanish them when they're around a restore pack, and place a stasis/cataclysm on a chokepoint that leads to the area(but not so close as to effect the NPCs). They shouldn't take much damage at all when travelling, and the staticlysm cuts down on the enemies you have to deal with at the point. Like I said, it's not going to help your bugs, but it makes the game type trivial otherwise.

[DepressiveOgre]

1 hour ago, HisokaXEveryone said:

Can't help with the bugginess, but the trick to this mode's Limbo. Banish the NPCs when they're moving between areas, then unbanish them when they're around a restore pack, and place a stasis/cataclysm on a chokepoint that leads to the area(but not so close as to effect the NPCs). They shouldn't take much damage at all when travelling, and the staticlysm cuts down on the enemies you have to deal with at the point. Like I said, it's not going to help your bugs, but it makes the game type trivial otherwise.

The trick to this mode is Oberon. You don't have to do anything but press 3 once per group and walk to extract.

[SteamlordD]

I'd say Defection is one of the better modes they've done recently, if they could just get the AI working. It has an actual objective, makes a variety of powers useful, lets you move around a bunch... There's stuff to do in Defection, unlike some of the older modes, like Defense, where you just shoot the breeze and idly kill some stuff that waddles toward you like packs of inept lemmings.

[Tyrian3k]

5 hours ago, SteamlordD said:

There's stuff to do in Defection, unlike some of the older modes, like Defense, where you just shoot the breeze and idly kill some stuff that waddles toward you like packs of inept lemmings.

What exactly is there to do except escorting some of those inept lemmings yourself?

People simply don't like anything that relies on escorting AI allies around because those tend to be exceptionally dumb, which is why just about everyone will use a healer frame to keep the lemmings alive. The reason is simple: People don't like to fail for reasons that were outside of their control, like a dumb AI killing itself or a rad-procced teammate in a sortie killing the defense objective...

[Morndawn]

When I learned what defection is about I started to like it, but maybe it is harder than it would have to be because at first it looks like mixed spy mission stages and endless survival stations. So players are often confused about what to do (I was). Stations named A + B+ C are confusing because there is nothing with order about it, and they pop after each other instead of being there from the beginning, then those defective mobs pop up randomly - it is a bit of chaos. 

I guess it has to be named A, B C so you would know which one is low, but maybe if it would be there from the beginning, with Lotus saying something more clear about it - like keep the route up which you will use for those defecting grineers, with more visually important extraction site. And I know for some players is maybe important the possibility to pop a new group of mobs to do it faster, but for most of players it is confusing with that switch for more of groups pop - maybe if it would be simply 1 group from the beginning till extraction and after that another. And who would like to make it faster would simply camp at those important stations and 1 person leading them around and giving them fast travel (like volt).

EDIT:

maybe more correct would be not spy mission, but mining mission mixed with survival, which is misleading.

Edited March 18, 2018 by Morndawn

[Ham_Grenabe]

Like infested salvage, you stop once you get the part you were chasing. 

I didn’t even chase. I just bought Harrow with plat, and did the quest for the riven. My brother got the Harrow part relatively quickly and that was the last defection mission he played.

[(XBOX)RabidGoldfish J]

I tend to make rounds of the unique mission types, and you've just reminded me that I haven't done defection for a while.  Personally I enjoy defection with a buddy or 3.  Never did like the solo.  

[BlackCoMerc]

On 3/16/2018 at 8:26 PM, Tyrian3k said:

What exactly is there to do except escorting some of those inept lemmings yourself?

People simply don't like anything that relies on escorting AI allies around because those tend to be exceptionally dumb, which is why just about everyone will use a healer frame to keep the lemmings alive. The reason is simple: People don't like to fail for reasons that were outside of their control, like a dumb AI killing itself or a rad-procced teammate in a sortie killing the defense objective...

Exactly.

Escort is the most derided, lampooned mission type in gaming for a reason. It's largely talked about as an example of what NOT to do.

It'svery existence here speaks to a design ethos intended to frustrate, rather than entertain, players.

Edited March 19, 2018 by BlackCoMerc

[Morndawn]

then I'm glad warframe has something for everybody ... 

I would have issues if those escorted mobs would run into everything, but they are very clever and they move the shortest way to the exit if they are not bugged, but my guess is it is bugged because it is overly complicated and confusing, it is using tileset from other missions, so it doesn't time well and sometimes it doesn't connect well.

Maybe if it would start like rescue without unlocking, then it would be more up to players when they will be ready to lead another group. But that would require something new to add, but it wouldn't be hard to add this - a switch next to single exit spawning room. I think now they are spawned next to spanwed breathing pod - a new one or any other existing. Would switch next to a room be better?

Edited March 22, 2018 by Morndawn

[Morndawn]

On 19. 3. 2018 at 12:19 AM, Ham_Grenabe said:

Like infested salvage, you stop once you get the part you were chasing. 

I didn’t even chase. I just bought Harrow with plat, and did the quest for the riven. My brother got the Harrow part relatively quickly and that was the last defection mission he played.

I know this is what I was telling myself when I had enough of RNG grind there, but now I would like to have more of salvage missions, but those rewards there are so poor that it was trolling me when I was waiting for my warframe part, so no reason to go there for the rest. And they are not going to implement it anywhere else becuase obviously they want people to rott there because of warframe part. 

 

Seriosly, people, my problem why I bother to write this is - do you want to do defense and extermination missions over and over ? I don't...

 

What I would like to have is this - more of reasons to go somewhere for a bp. I really don't like buying weapon bp in their shop because it feels like good for nothing. Like I buy this for what - just to own it, fast level it to level 30 and throw it away? It doesn't even matter if it is for platinum or credits - it feels the same - like what kind of reason I have to buy it?

Why they don't make an alternative - to distribute their 300 weapon bps or how many of it is there into such missions, so I wouldn't have to feel terrible while waiting for a drop of single warframe bp part? Then you wouldn't have to feel sick when someone mentions salvage mission or defection...

[Ham_Grenabe]

I'd wish every frame, instead of a boss farm or endless mission farm, had a quest like Titania or Mirage's: you do the quest, and at each stage, you get a component piece, with the quest culminating in the blueprint. 

I hope that future questframes (Khora, Umbra maybe) are done like that -- I don't want to farm Rotation C of some endless mission for a small chance at, say, Khora Neuroptics. Just make the quest give me that blueprint once I've hit some stage. Unfortunately, I am pretty sure it won't happen because I feel like DE's position on this is "that's too easy and they a) won't spend enough time failing to get the parts and therefore b) won't be driven to the market to buy the frame for platinum."

Well, yes. That's exactly the point. If you want the acquisition to take longer, don't hide parts behind endless mission rotations and a drop table, hide them behind a tricky and engaging quest. If you want plat purchases, add exclusive freebies to the questframe purchase (cosmetics, a riven mod, whatever). 

[Morndawn]

Me too, maybe if DE would involve getting weapons in more complicated way - not just RND, maybe it could be different. Nidus and Harrow was intoduced in their strange period when it was the worst of getting things and it wasn't changed. 

I think there is even enough of tools to make getting weapon in more of steps, not just drop, something between drop and quests - for example with an interesting puzzle - not that hard one from Lua, but some combination of scanning, reading of hints and heading for the final planet - it doesn't have to be long, just something more than 1 click or farming. And if it would be connected to appropriate faction (like grineer weapons on grineer planets), it would be even better. Now there are weapons as rewards, but not as a mini quest. Or another example could be - this blueprint of some weapon is hidden in some factory and maybe some mob can drop it there or you have to scan some wall with drawing or something like that. So in some way it would be similar - like not always there would be the right tileset, but the chance could be higher. 

Some old warframes don't have quest, they have this kind of drop, but if that would be reserved for weapons and warframes would have big quests then there would be space for such small mini quests for weapons?