New Decoration Mechanics

[BaadshahPrime]

The new decorations mechanics are incredibly frustrating use. Every time I select a decor. the pointer is at the very end of the object, sometimes even outside of the object no matter how big or small the decor. is and 99% of the time I can't see where I am placing the other end. I spent the last 20 mins trying to place just one catwalk railing on stairs without any succession. This needs to be fixed. I hope DE realizes this issue.

[Grimm]

the system is very annoying by default but once you learn it, its 100x easier then the old ones. 

first toggle f so your not on the S#&$ty surface snapping, set grid to 0.10m to avoid over hand on items and annoying placement issues, if the item is still in a weird angel and not orientated to your direction press z twice. (never leave billboard facing on it will kill you). then use right click and and set the angle lock to the value you like most (i use 15 degrees) then rotate the item to sit how you want it to

[(PSN)Sir_Polaroid]

Did you try zooming out?

Can [DE] implement snapping decorations that work right?!

NEXT TIME ON DRAGON BALL Z 

Edited March 21, 2018 by (PS4)ashtonsux134

[(PSN)Sir_Polaroid]

 

Just now, (PS4)ashtonsux134 said:

 

Edited March 21, 2018 by (PS4)ashtonsux134

[BaadshahPrime]

19 minutes ago, Grimm said:

the system is very annoying by default but once you learn it, its 100x easier then the old ones. 

first toggle f so your not on the S#&$ty surface snapping, set grid to 0.10m to avoid over hand on items and annoying placement issues, if the item is still in a weird angel and not orientated to your direction press z twice. (never leave billboard facing on it will kill you). then use right click and and set the angle lock to the value you like most (i use 15 degrees) then rotate the item to sit how you want it to

My main issue is the (0,0,0) of some of the new items is at the corner unlike most of other stuff, Idk if its intended but its really hard to place them. yes the new mechanics are really easy. Its just these items are really hard for me. I dont have any problems with those settings at all.

 

[NeithanDiniem]

That is a pretty common location for objects like that for origin points. You typically put them on the outer edge or corner of the object so you can align the object to a grid effectively and modular parts can snap better.

Personally I hope they add a few minor tools to let people adjust placed objects, letting you nudge them in axial directions based on grid and rotation settings. Could use the existing system as well, just adding a different hitbox to different location of the manipulator tool. Most modeling programs have these types of manipulator tool hitboxes.

[Grimm]

change your field of view

it allows for clipping items better into eachother. but the grab could be done based on where your looking instead. aswell as the annoying forced head moving moving things when you grab those items specifically

Edited March 21, 2018 by Grimm

[Orcais]

Snapping of the pipes, stairways and cat walks would be simplest, I'm OCPD on this crap , I just refuse to build with them till DE sort this!!

Best New Decorations: imo Fog.

Thanks DE for the wicked art work though.

[bloodworm12]

I totally agree. There should be a toggle option for it if we want default grab or if we want to grab decoration in specific way. Currently is very frustrating. Ex: when i tried to put catwalk in corpus lab to hide these empty holes they went a bit into wall, but what I did on one side I couldn't do it on another. Our cursor after grab is blocking and we can't move it into other objects, it collides. As a perfectionist I would do simetrical and attach things straight.

Also surface placing could be more intuitive, as this can't be used to connect one catwalk/stairs straight together. It was a misery, even rotating things is a little broken and they move in different way as we want. I had problem in my orbiter when I tried to rotate fish trophy it changed possition by it self in totally different way.

[Flemat]

Hello!
Im a big fan of decorating, I spent a lot of time plannning(100%) and execute/building my dojo(aprox 90%). Now about this new system compared the old one in my opinion, but I think a lot of players and buildlovers will agree:

PROS:

1. New CORPUS and GRINEER elements to build/new decorations that came in as well.
2. You have the free placement option, in which case, you could place items on the wall for example as it would stand on the ground, and not 90 degrees from the wall. For example: Now you are able to more accuratly place objects on top int the middle of sphere shaped objects.
3. Rotating grid: as you are now able to adjust 15 and 45 degree angles, for a bit faster and maximum perfection when rotating and placing decorations.
4. Grind snapping: similar to "PROS point 3", it is practical. You have 3 options here: 0.10 / 0.25 / and 1.00 meters. I wont have to count tiles/marks on the wall, etc anymore, to place things simmetrically.
5. The revolutionary (for me truely) NUM 2 button, where if you placed a decoration, by presing "2" it will automaticly select the same decoration, that was previously used, and not having to open up the decoration menu  and search for it again.
6. If you constuckt things, that are stacked upon eachother, you dont necessarily need to wait for them to finish crafting, for you to further continue your construction.

 

CONS:

1. The birds eye view from flying, makes it INCREDIBLY more harder and frustrating to place items excatly how you want to. EXAMPLE: i had 2 "catwalk rails" (4m long ones, where the corners connected 45 degrees from eachother, in our clan grand hall, in front of one of the 4 avaible side dors, under the 2nd floor of the hall. Thats where our "Energy lab" is). I wanted to place a "corpus corporate flag" as close to the connecting point of that 2 "catwalk rails" as possible, BUT if I wanted to place them as close as possible to the connecting point, I would had to go so close in fly mode, that I coudnt see how tall the banner is, and would it go in or through the 2nd floor of the main hall; if I went to a place where I could see the flags size, it was only up to luck if I could place it to the position where I wanted to.
2. The PUSH/PULL mechanic in my opinion, on paper was a good idea, but tbh I didnt need that mechanic in the old mechanic and It feels more like it had to be put in, so that people could use this "Fly mode". Since without it pople woudnt be able to adjsut their viewing space and the desired items length from eachoter. In conclusion its a mechanic where you waste quite a lot of time to place anything, just because of "CONS point 1".
3. Item grabbing and reajusting: Yea...the most frustrating and time spending/wasting thing in my experience...All of us have experienced when you dont place something perfectly on the get go, or just thought of reajusting things here and there. My main problem is that, excluding circle shaped items (was so frustrated, that I tested it), everything is grabbed by its edge/side, and not at the center or where you ai was and pointed, when you grabbed it (I wanted to see and laugh if it would drive me elsewhere as well, if I grabbed a "floor medalion" for example...). For example 1: If I wanted to place a decoration (yet again "catwalk rails") as close to the wall as possible, most of the time it turned up on to the wall / changed directions / was unplaceable. Or example 2: I tried to put a decoration on the wall ("corpus cable interface" on the wall,) horizontaly, but as I was rotating it (in 15 or 45 degree rotating grid) it was ok on any point EXEPT the horizontal, as it was odly then rotated 90 degrees from the wall, being in a kinda + position, where: | is the wall; - is the decoration; left side from | is the grand hall; and right side of | was the energy lab. And I was in the energy lab. To put it up finally the way I wanted to, I had to look from the corner of the room, as near to the wall as possible, for it to stay sticking to the wall (ps surface placing was active before I forget and get a comment on it) AND to be in a horizontal position. I had to grab (grabed at the edge ofc), and reajust it quite a few times, because from that angle, I coudnt see if the middle part of it (this decoration has 3 similar looking parts XXX, so if the middle X) was JUST right above another decoration (corpus computer diagnostics array). The rail took me  Just to demenstrate it, im going to put the old and new mechanic side by side in comparison with this two exampls...Menu -> pick decoration

• OLD MECHANIC example 1: was already near the position where I want to palce it -> press and hold to rotate, takes (max 20 seconds to get perfect or near perfect rotation angle) -> and slide it to its position the way you desire (again max 10 seconds). Lets say you messed it up, grab it at that point and adjust that tiny bit (5 seconds). DONE around half a minute, but mostly less.
• NEW MECHANIC example 1: Longer time to adjust just because of "CONS point 1" and it was always NEVER on the right spot where I wanted on my first try, so I had to grab it again, but WAIT..."CONS point 3" it pushed my cursor to the edge, and also moved my decorations from the previous position randomly, so you need more time to reajust it to the postion where you want to IF you are even able to, because most of the time I have to move up and down, left or right, to even get a view to move it to the postion where I wanted the decorations, thanks to "CONS point 3". And sometimes I had to reajust 3 or more times. Aproximetly took me 4-5 minutes.
• OLD MECHANIC example 2: was already near the position where I want to palce it -> press and hold to rotate, takes (max 20 seconds to get perfect or near perfect rotation angle) -> and slide it to its position the way you desire (again max 10 seconds). Lets say you messed it up, grab it at that point and adjust that tiny bit (5 seconds). DONE around half a minute, but mostly less. PS wall placement was even faster then ground placement.
• NEW MECHANIC example 2:  also the same, but in this exampls it took me almost 12-13 minutes (and we are still talking about 1 decoration). SIDENOTE the 4 meter long "catwalk rail" wont clip corectly to the "catwalks". The 2 meter ones clip perfectly. So instead what i wanted for a 6 meter long "catwalk", a 4 meter + 2 meter long "catwalk rail", I had to go with 3*2 meter "catwalk rails" instead.

 

CONCLUSION: Its good to see, that DE is bringing in new things and mechanics, but this one realy needs some polish, cause as it stands, I hate it very much, because CONS >>> PROS and overall "wasted time" >>> "saved time". And tbh, there was nothing except "PROS point 2", that I coudnt do in the OLD mechanic compared to the NEW. The NEW mechanic takes away so much more time, and is more frustrating to decorate. It needs much more polish. It makes me want to build less, and to overly simplify things. I am a super perfectionist when i build, and just speding 2 days decorating in the NEW mechanic, I even did things like "f*** it its good as it is", and didnt care / wanted to frustrate dozens of minutes more, because it felt "its not worth it". If I wanted to build the same (or very similar) more complex builds / building / statues from many decorations combined.

1. It would take me 3-5 times more time (honestly)
2. I woudnt even start to do those or just give up on my breaking point.

 

MY OPINION:

1. Put back the OLD mechanic (if its still possible...).
2. Enhance / fix / polish the NEW mechanic.
3. BEST CASE: both of the above. I doubt the old mechanic was destroyed/tossed away compleatly. When people enter decoration mode, let them choose between the 2 mechanics (preference) and let it be memorized, so you dont have to pick (the same option) every time you enter decoration mode. I think that would be the best, and most acceptable for everyone.

 

ANOTHER SIDENOTE: CONS 3.5 + a suggestion:

While in decoration mode of the NEW mechanic, if you get a PM, you have no idea, no notification or anything, that you get any.

It bugged me in the OLD mechanic as well (but at least I saw when I got a PM), why cant we use chat (T) while we are in decoration mode? It was the only cons for me in the OLD mechanic (and the only time wasting things I felt), when you were placing something, but had to quit, to reply to an incoming PM, and then back to decoration mode and start over, hoping you dont get a PM, or you finish fast enough with it.

 

Edited March 26, 2018 by Flemat
Added an example for "PROS point 2".

[Zyion]

Having played Wildstar, I have to say that the decoration mechanics in Warframe are some of the worst I've ever experienced (even after the latest update). The system would work so much better if they implemented some sort of X-Y-Z coordinate system rather than a system that is entirely tied to camera movement.

The current problems are only made worse when dealing with objects too large to fit in the whole screen. You either have to be so far away from the object that you can't do precision work, or guess that the changes you are making on the tiny section you are looking at are doing what you want off screen. And attempting to edit already placed objects often causes them to rotate to random angles. Meaning you have to delete the object and try all over again to get it the way you want.

I really want to spend time playing around with what can be done in the Dojo, but I don't like wasting 90% of my time fighting the placement controls for decorations.

[---CASTORSUGAR---]

Here's a thought: a cut-down version of whatever out-game application DE use to build actual maps in Warframe. Like, appropriately cut down -- leave out as much confusing stuff as possible as well as a lot of the objects if you will, but DE are not obviously using a system anything like the one used in-game to make maps. I wouldn't anyway. Maps would take even longer to build this way than using modelling software to manually form each entire map to similar precision. I'm not saying that we want professional software to play around with dojos, just that as others have pointed out, the vast majority of the umpteen hours a well-invested player will spend on dojo decorating is attributed to trying to compensate for fundamentally flawed object placement controls, not actual planning and decoration. For that reason, the novelty wears incredibly quickly.

So it'd work something like this;

1. Consumer installs a Warframe-specific modelling client for dojos. Consider the inclusion of orbiter decorating, or don't. There's not much room in them anyway.
2. Consumer opens the client separate of Warframe, but logs in using their account details. These details allow the client to find out what clan the consumer is in for its references.
3. The client confirms with the user that the dojo displayed is the correct one.
4. Consumer uses client to accurately and relatively stress-freely place available dojo items in similar fashion to the manner in which DE might spend time arranging assets in tile-sets. Precision placement, no floating railings, and good-looking builds. Well, mine will be: I've seen some 'interesting', eh, makeshift mech's that aren't all that easy on the eyes...

Doesn't need to be an overly complex client, either. I'm not talking Maya or things like that, just a client that'll let us peer into the tile-set we've built and such. We should still be given some decorating ability in-game, as well as control of room placement and all that (would be a shame to waste the development of it, too), but this way decorating would be much faster and much more tolerable, methinks, and could be performed optionally.

I really, really appreciate the dojo remaster. It refined and bettered the last system immeasurably. It was a massive step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned, but this idea might cut out a lot of the refinement of a new system DE've introduced simply because it's a system that's been in use (likely) for a much longer time, and must be demonstrably helpful.

[KaizergidorahXi]

On 2018-03-21 at 12:03 AM, Grimm said:

the system is very annoying by default but once you learn it, its 100x easier then the old ones. 

first toggle f so your not on the S#&$ty surface snapping, set grid to 0.10m to avoid over hand on items and annoying placement issues, if the item is still in a weird angel and not orientated to your direction press z twice. (never leave billboard facing on it will kill you). then use right click and and set the angle lock to the value you like most (i use 15 degrees) then rotate the item to sit how you want it to

What does Billboard Facing even do?

[IceBlueEyesX]

On 2018-05-23 at 2:28 PM, KaizergidorahXi said:

What does Billboard Facing even do?

That's the question of the day, isn't it?

I can't tell what it does, or if it even DOES anything to begin with.

[IceBlueEyesX]

Honestly, I'm torn on the decoration placement from before and now.  On the one hand, I like the expanded list of things one can work with, and the fluidity of rotations and such.  However, I REALLY wish certain objects could snap TO one another if so desired, and as others have stated above, the new system seems more time consuming and frustrating than it really should be, especially for something that you'll only end up seeing every rare now and again, what with how the game is played.

At the very least, it would also be nice if rooms had an option for a symmetrical grid that's visible AND able to be snapped to by various objects, AND if you could choose WHERE to grab onto an object after it's placed.  Otherwise, it takes forever to properly (not even perfectly, mind you) arrange things like this:

Edited June 14, 2018 by IceBlueEyesX