Wyrm's Crowd Dispersion precept mod

[Ezekeel666]

The description of the mod says 'unleash a Xm radial knockdown' however it does not knockdown enemies but ragdolls them all over the place.

For melee builds ragdolling enemies is terrible. Yeah I know someone in the dev team seems to love ragdolls with a deep passion and wants to slap it on everything (see suggested impact status changes) but he is wrong and ragdolls are actually extremely counter productive in almost all cases.

So I would suggest to change that mod to actually do what it says: knocking down enemies.

[LSG501]

who doesn't enjoy watching it launch enemies into space....

[(XBOX)RabidGoldfish J]

Except for doing the Ostron rescue, I'm yet to find a mission that is negatively impacted by this very fun precept.  

[Ezekeel666]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)RabidGoldfish J said:

Except for doing the Ostron rescue, I'm yet to find a mission that is negatively impacted by this very fun precept.  

Not sure about a specific mission, but it negatively impacts every melee build out there because, you know, it is kinda hard to kill stuff that keeps getting scattered around all over the place.

Not that I have to use it but there are not that many useful precept mods, or generally sentinel mods, out there in the first place so restricting the few good available to certain builds seems not a good idea.

[(XBOX)RabidGoldfish J]

12 minutes ago, Ezekeel666 said:

Not sure about a specific mission, but it negatively impacts every melee build out there because, you know, it is kinda hard to kill stuff that keeps getting scattered around all over the place.

Not that I have to use it but there are not that many useful precept mods, or generally sentinel mods, out there in the first place so restricting the few good available to certain builds seems not a good idea.

On the contrary, if you don't like it, there are plenty to take it's place, albeit they aren't cc oriented.  Just off the top of my head, there's guardian which regens shields, medi-ray which refers health. Both of which are useful.  Sanctuary, if you tend to be helpful to pick up downed allies, and animal instincts too. Additionally, coolant leak adds a layer of cold for enemies within short melee range.

 

Wyrm's function  is really to clear space for you to move in.  If you don't like how it functions then perhaps you should use a different sentinel?  Diriga works very well in cc, and so does djinn.  

[Ezekeel666]

18 minutes ago, (XB1)RabidGoldfish J said:

On the contrary, if you don't like it, there are plenty to take it's place, albeit they aren't cc oriented.  Just off the top of my head, there's guardian which regens shields, medi-ray which refers health. Both of which are useful.  Sanctuary, if you tend to be helpful to pick up downed allies, and animal instincts too. Additionally, coolant leak adds a layer of cold for enemies within short melee range.

 

Wyrm's function  is really to clear space for you to move in.  If you don't like how it functions then perhaps you should use a different sentinel?  Diriga works very well in cc, and so does djinn.  

Jesus, you really do not have much experience in the game, do you? Guardian is garbage because shields are garbage, medi-ray is unnecessary since every experienced player already has other better more reliable means of healing if he decides he needs it (like Healing Strike, Healing Return or Arcane Grace). And coolant leak I am not even gonna...

Wyrm's function is to be a body guard and last layer of defense. Knocking down enemies would be doing that just fine. Its function is not to be your personal snowplow. Especially since operator dash does the same for everyone already.

[(XBOX)RabidGoldfish J]

20 minutes ago, Ezekeel666 said:

Jesus, you really do not have much experience in the game, do you? Guardian is garbage because shields are garbage, medi-ray is unnecessary since every experienced player already has other better more reliable means of healing if he decides he needs it (like Healing Strike, Healing Return or Arcane Grace). And coolant leak I am not even gonna...

Wyrm's function is to be a body guard and last layer of defense. Knocking down enemies would be doing that just fine. Its function is not to be your personal snowplow. Especially since operator dash does the same for everyone already.

Impressive outburst.

You do realize that worm existed before a majority of the options you just listed.  

Not everyone is required to play the way that you do.  Therefore, in different combinations these are all still valid options, especially if you happen to have a gap in your setup due over focusing on a particular style.

Yes wyrm is a personal body guard.  Look at the name of the mod.  Crowd Dispersion.   It literally means to disperse the crowd.  And it does exactly that.  

Again, if you don't like how it works, there are other options.  Other sentinels have cc abilities that function more like what you're looking for.  If you choose not to use them then that's on you.  

As for experience, I've enough experience in this game to appreciate differing functionality and combinations.  "Meta" is over rated and a pain and far less enjoyable.  I have a least one build that uses each companion available, and each has a differing build to suit my play style. 

 

But since you've got so much more experience than me, you must know what I'm talking about, right?

[Ezekeel666]

25 minutes ago, (XB1)RabidGoldfish J said:

You do realize that worm existed before a majority of the options you just listed.  

What I listed were options to heal yourself to explain to you why Medi-Ray is not necessary. It has nothing to do with Wyrm.

26 minutes ago, (XB1)RabidGoldfish J said:

Not everyone is required to play the way that you do.

No. But everyone has an operator with void dash. So demanding that CD stays the same because one wants to use as a (strictly worse) alternative to void dash for clearing the way because one likes that play style better (aka one is too lazy to switch over to operator and do it manually) is just asinine to me.

I am done talking to you, mate since I have the strong feeling I just waste my time.

[(XBOX)RabidGoldfish J]

12 minutes ago, Ezekeel666 said:

-snip-

I am done talking to you, mate since I have the strong feeling I just waste my time.

That's a shame.  I would not have considered it a waste of time.

[Chipputer]

2 hours ago, Ezekeel666 said:

Jesus, you really do not have much experience in the game, do you? Guardian is garbage because shields are garbage, medi-ray is unnecessary since every experienced player already has other better more reliable means of healing if he decides he needs it (like Healing Strike, Healing Return or Arcane Grace). And coolant leak I am not even gonna...

I'm sure glad you've figured out the game for everyone else. I'm certainly glad your opinion is fact. I'm certainly glad that other options are completely moot, in your eyes. You've made it so much easier for me to not enjoy the sheer level of customization that I can participate in by telling me how garbage everything is.

You've also proven that the one with a lack of experience, here, is you.

[Guest]

If you don't like the Wyrm's knock back ability and you really want to do melee, then use a sentinel designed to work with melee like the Djinn.  There are plenty of options that are better suited to melee load outs including Djinn's aoe charm, Diriga's chain stun abilities, anything with the Artax, and even the Helios and its melee Deconstructor (high status and it benefits from blinds and melee boosters, just like your frame).  As it is, the Wyrm is an excellent defensive sentinel for frames that can't handle melee attackers well like Mesa and Zephyr.

There are tools in the game designed to fill the niche you're looking for.  Stop trying to fit a round peg in a square hole.

[Ezekeel666]

16 hours ago, Chipputer said:

I'm sure glad you've figured out the game for everyone else. I'm certainly glad your opinion is fact. I'm certainly glad that other options are completely moot, in your eyes. You've made it so much easier for me to not enjoy the sheer level of customization that I can participate in by telling me how garbage everything is.

You've also proven that the one with a lack of experience, here, is you.

Feel free to point out where I am wrong and how I lack experience, dingus. Everything I said about the mods mentioned is factually true.

 

15 hours ago, TheDefenestrater said:

If you don't like the Wyrm's knock back ability and you really want to do melee, then use a sentinel designed to work with melee like the Djinn.  There are plenty of options that are better suited to melee load outs including Djinn's aoe charm, Diriga's chain stun abilities, anything with the Artax, and even the Helios and its melee Deconstructor (high status and it benefits from blinds and melee boosters, just like your frame).  As it is, the Wyrm is an excellent defensive sentinel for frames that can't handle melee attackers well like Mesa and Zephyr.

There are tools in the game designed to fill the niche you're looking for.  Stop trying to fit a round peg in a square hole.

Djinn and Diriga have significantly less EHP than Wyrm Prime. Do I have to explain to you why that is important? Artax can be used on every sentinel which incidentally is the one I am using on my Wyrm.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Ezekeel666

[(XBOX)RabidGoldfish J]

20 minutes ago, Ezekeel666 said:

Feel free to point out where I am wrong and how I lack experience, dingus. Everything I said about the mods mentioned is factually true.

 

Fact: 100% of people who drink water will die.

Fact: 100% of people who do not drink water will die.

Facts are subject to interpretation and can be presented in varying ways to help or hurt your cause.  The fact that you and many people say the mods are useless does not make it so.  Someone can and will find a use for any mod in the game should they feel so inclined.

[(XBOX)dude1286]

I've always loved the Tenno Space Program that was involved with ragdolling. Ever since they removed it from Sonicor, I had to look for a new tool to do further research for the TSP, which finally became Wyrm Prime with Crowd Dispersion. Do not take away from the TSP, we don't have much funding.

[Ezekeel666]

1 minute ago, (XB1)dude1286 said:

I've always loved the Tenno Space Program that was involved with ragdolling. Ever since they removed it from Sonicor, I had to look for a new tool to do further research for the TSP, which finally became Wyrm Prime with Crowd Dispersion. Do not take away from the TSP, we don't have much funding.

Hands down this is actually the most reasonable argument I have heard so far in this thread for keeping CD the way it is. At least I can understand that and it is not disagreeing for disagreeing's sake. Personally I find ragdolling enemies looks a bit too cartoonish and it gets old quickly but people like what they like and who am I to judge. Still I think usability trumps that.

[(XBOX)dude1286]

In all seriousness though, Carrier Prime has better EHP than Wyrm Prime, and comes with with a high status shotgun that can be modded for Blast+Corrosive which will knock down enemies for you. It's attack precept also attacks most enemies close by. And it gives you more ammo.

There are also Warframe abilities that can help defend your Sentinals from harm, such as: Nezha's Warding Halo, Zephyr's Turbulence, Gara's 2nd ability. Using those abilities on Djinn will make it work much better. Though, I do agree that Djinn should have the highest EHP when it comes to Sentinals due to the design of its precepts.

[(PSN)TheRealTommo]

I think someone is a bit tired...

[Ezekeel666]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)dude1286 said:

In all seriousness though, Carrier Prime has better EHP than Wyrm Prime, and comes with with a high status shotgun that can be modded for Blast+Corrosive which will knock down enemies for you. It's attack precept also attacks most enemies close by. And it gives you more ammo.

Artax is more effective than the shotgun for spreading status effects and it has pinpoint accuracy up to 30m range. Problem with Carrier is that its attack precept has only 10m range. Ammo I do not need for my melee builds and my favourite primary is the Hema.

[DoomFruit]

39 minutes ago, Ezekeel666 said:

Artax is more effective than the shotgun for spreading status effects and it has pinpoint accuracy up to 30m range. Problem with Carrier is that its attack precept has only 10m range. Ammo I do not need for my melee builds and my favourite primary is the Hema.

That range is still plenty enough for melee combat, and has the same range as crowd dispersion. Want more range? Use the diriga instead and equip it with the close range arc stun mods. The sweeper's going to hit multiple targets at longer distances, spreading the procs around far more effectively than an artax would.

Also, count me on the side of "crowd dispersion's massive knockback is just plain fun". It always brings a smile to my face when as some infested is running up to me, wyrm looks at it, says "piss off" and smacks it flying into the distance. I've found it far more effective at gaining actual distance than throwing a small child at the enemies, my sentinel will do this automatically for enemies charging up from behind me, and I don't have to break my attack in order to change into small child mode, launch it at the enemy, change back, then reposition again to keep fighting as before.

[(XBOX)RabidGoldfish J]

21 hours ago, (XB1)RabidGoldfish J said:

Except for doing the Ostron rescue, I'm yet to find a mission that is negatively impacted by this very fun precept.  

I believe I also mentioned that it was fun?

[Ezekeel666]

52 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

That range is still plenty enough for melee combat, and has the same range as crowd dispersion. Want more range? Use the diriga instead and equip it with the close range arc stun mods. The sweeper's going to hit multiple targets at longer distances, spreading the procs around far more effectively than an artax would.

As a melee I do not need my sentinel to shoot on enemies in melee range because those will die soon anyway. I want him to shoot at enemies further away to CC them so they do not shoot at me while I approach them. Also that way they already have all the status procs nicely stacked up when I arrive and hit them with my Condition Overload weapon.

Taking Diriga over Wyrm Prime for the arc stun is not worth sacrificing 1/3 of the EHP in my opinion. Wyrm Prime is simply the most sturdy sentinel with a range > 10m available.

I tried Sweeper and while it hits fine at 30m the spread is not good and it only hits multiple enemies if they are practically standing in each other. Considering I need a pure elemental damage weapon for my CO build because I already get IPS procs from my melee weapon I gonna stick with my good ole Artax.

[DoomFruit]

6 minutes ago, Ezekeel666 said:

As a melee I do not need my sentinel to shoot on enemies in melee range because those will die soon anyway. I want him to shoot at enemies further away to CC them so they do not shoot at me while I approach them. Also that way they already have all the status procs nicely stacked up when I arrive and hit them with my Condition Overload weapon.

Taking Diriga over Wyrm Prime for the arc stun is not worth sacrificing 1/3 of the EHP in my opinion. Wyrm Prime is simply the most sturdy sentinel with a range > 10m available.

I tried Sweeper and while it hits fine at 30m the spread is not good and it only hits multiple enemies if they are practically standing in each other. Considering I need a pure elemental damage weapon for my CO build because I already get IPS procs from my melee weapon I gonna stick with my good ole Artax.

Fair enough, I myself do like the survivability of wyrm prime (which in practice, I find to be much more than carrier prime - your sentinel rarely ever gets directly targeted, so most of the incoming damage is AoE splash which the additional shields prevent from touching the sentinel itself). Spread could be increased using the corrupted +damage/-spread mod (I forget its name) but yes, I again do love my Artax and find it hard to argue in favour of using another weapon for status infliction.

Honestly, you're best off just not using crowd dispersion at all. It performs its function of literally dispersing crowds quite admirably, something which doesn't really work if you want a crowd to slash up. It's got its purpose and that purpose just doesn't suit your playstyle.

[Ezekeel666]

14 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

Honestly, you're best off just not using crowd dispersion at all. It performs its function of literally dispersing crowds quite admirably, something which doesn't really work if you want a crowd to slash up. It's got its purpose and that purpose just doesn't suit your playstyle.

Yeah. That is what I currently do. Just having a hard time filling the slot I reserved for CD now because most of the general sentinel mods suck balls. Not that it matters much for my melee build because everything in range to be effected by CD dies anyway so I do not need the melee range CC. Just thought it would be a nice QOL change to make CD also useful for melee builds.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Ezekeel666

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Ezekeel666 said:

Djinn and Diriga have significantly less EHP than Wyrm Prime. Do I have to explain to you why that is important? Artax can be used on every sentinel which incidentally is the one I am using on my Wyrm.

There are plenty of cases where lower sentinel ehp doesn't matter, actually.  In fact, unless you're running survival for over an hour, then the ehp doesn't really matter at all.  Primed regen and 6 player revives can keep your little buddy by your side plenty long enough for him to prove useful.  Using stealth, team ehp buffers, and general good movement skills will prolong your sentinel's life just as much as it does your own.  If health is such a concern and you're unwilling to dodge bullets, maybe try a kavat or kubrow.

[KochDerFrettchen]

So the problem you're having is that you've equipped something that doesn't benefit the way you want to play? Maybe another sentinel or pet that is not focused on keeping enemies off/away from you would be more your style.  Or unequip Crowd Dispersion, if that precept is bothering you :p