Here is why we dont need kuva endless to scale

[fluffysnowcap]

2 hours ago, zWhiteKz said:

• The Extraction marker now shows at every rotation C for 60 seconds (as well as the original 5 mins), and when players are at Extraction and triggered the countdown.

I dont understand this one... so it encourage player to extract when rotation C is reach? 

That would appear to be the case, it looks like they're trying to make survival a 20 minute job at the most.

[zWhiteKz]

For me this is a good job done, like DE already stated, this is not gonna replace siphon/flood and at it core it still a survival mission 1st and the kuva is just a bonus add in just like with excavation with relic and cryotic, i like where DE heading too.

And for those who keep yelling scaling kuva/reward and use excuse that "harder enemies should reward more". Here is one of my thought, why not try to come up with the idea of a new node, a node that start from high lv and better reward already, rather than keep catering to a low lv node and play for a long time just to reach the "mark" u planned for urself and called it a challenge while with only 10-20 mins after the scaling go crazy? it like saying "i'm warming up for 40 mins". It not good and make player forcing to play for longer session in just 1 mission. With higher lv mission node add, the scaling can go slow and u can fight high lv enemies and have better reward and not have to deal with the "40 mins warm up". So enlighten me why u guys keep asking for scaling reward, and the potential it will get out of hand? all i see is greedy, get the most of the thing the fastest, and i understand that but like i said, doing that just only benefit the upper top player, the one who can do it. With higher node, players can choice is they can do it or not rather than have to wait for a long time in one mission to find out 

[fluffysnowcap]

On 06/04/2018 at 3:15 AM, zWhiteKz said:

For me this is a good job done, like DE already stated, this is not gonna replace siphon/flood and at it core it still a survival mission 1st and the kuva is just a bonus add in just like with excavation with relic and cryotic, i like where DE heading too.

They're heading to the end of endless.

On 06/04/2018 at 3:15 AM, zWhiteKz said:

And for those who keep yelling scaling kuva/reward and use excuse that "harder enemies should reward more". Here is one of my thought, why not try to come up with the idea of a new node, a node that start from high lv and better reward already, rather than keep catering to a low lv node and play for a long time just to reach the "mark" u planned for urself and called it a challenge while with only 10-20 mins after the scaling go crazy? it like saying "i'm warming up for 40 mins". It not good and make player forcing to play for longer session in just 1 mission. With higher lv mission node add, the scaling can go slow and u can fight high lv enemies and have better reward and not have to deal with the "40 mins warm up". So enlighten me why u guys keep asking for scaling reward, and the potential it will get out of hand? all i see is greedy, get the most of the thing the fastest, and i understand that but like i said, doing that just only benefit the upper top player, the one who can do it. With higher node, players can choice is they can do it or not rather than have to wait for a long time in one mission to find out 

Endless missions are in Endurance run. Our argument was to make insurance runs rewarding and how to revitalise all endless missions not to replace them with a 20 minutes cheese fest, where you fight level 1000 enemies for easily the best loot in the game. By creating a node that starts on an insane level you will create a node that has a strong or fixed meta to it, and is considerably more anti low level player than any of the scaling ideas that have been put forward. Yes even the idea of +25 Kuva per tower after 20 minutes, as there are a lot of frames and weapons that can get you that far.

[Carnage2K4]

On 3/30/2018 at 3:22 PM, zWhiteKz said:

so the avg kuva u get per min is:

Siphon 625/4 = 156.25/min

Endless 200/min

Flood 1250/4 = 312.5/min

now we look back at endless and the kuva/min is 200/min which sit somewhat in middle between siphon and flood just like [DE]Sheldon said and this is good

I guess you'll never bother to update your post to reflect the truth that in Endless it's 90 seconds between Life support drops.
Which at best puts the Kuva at 133/minute... Basically destroying your OP.

You've had more than enough time to edit it, a lie needed to make a point, makes that point invalid.

On 3/29/2018 at 5:19 AM, [DE]Megan said:

Survival Life Support Towers no longer have interval spawn scaling (90 seconds + 1 second per pillar), instead they will just spawn every 90 seconds.

[DrBorris]

On 4/5/2018 at 10:15 PM, zWhiteKz said:

For me this is a good job done, like DE already stated, this is not gonna replace siphon/flood and at it core it still a survival mission 1st and the kuva is just a bonus add in just like with excavation with relic and cryotic, i like where DE heading too.

And for those who keep yelling scaling kuva/reward and use excuse that "harder enemies should reward more". Here is one of my thought, why not try to come up with the idea of a new node, a node that start from high lv and better reward already, rather than keep catering to a low lv node and play for a long time just to reach the "mark" u planned for urself and called it a challenge while with only 10-20 mins after the scaling go crazy? it like saying "i'm warming up for 40 mins". It not good and make player forcing to play for longer session in just 1 mission. With higher lv mission node add, the scaling can go slow and u can fight high lv enemies and have better reward and not have to deal with the "40 mins warm up". So enlighten me why u guys keep asking for scaling reward, and the potential it will get out of hand? all i see is greedy, get the most of the thing the fastest, and i understand that but like i said, doing that just only benefit the upper top player, the one who can do it. With higher node, players can choice is they can do it or not rather than have to wait for a long time in one mission to find out 

I like endurance.

I am getting really, really, really tired of people telling me "this whole endurance thing is objectively not fun" because, to me, it is. You say "40 min of warm up," well, I like that aspect to it. It is a progressive beat that gets louder and louder as you go. I would personally rather be in a mission with a "warm up" than run short high level missions over and over. How dare I have an opinion that differs yours. I could give you an essay about why I like endurance so much, but just trust me, I do honestly like endurance.

To enlighten you, even though you will ignore me for the nth time, I want scaling rewards because I am a greedy @sshole that wants there to be a node on the map where I and people like me who enjoy Endurance can have our little place (And note by scaling rewards I mean something that caps at 300 Kuva per tower, the last thing I want is for Kuva Survival to be the meta as that goes against everything I am preaching about allowing people to play whatever mission they like). A place where I don't have to worry about randoms coming in and bailing at 5 min, or running in with unleveled gear. Every single other node in the game is dominated by rushing, it is the most encouraged playstyle despite also being shamed for being cheesy but I don't see anyone trying to alleviate that. Oh no, it is fine to let that playstyle stay, you like that playstyle. But how dare I want a playstyle I enjoy be rewarded.

And before this BS "Just go to recruiting"... NO. Again, look at every other node. The playstyle that is actively encouraged is going fast because your reward per min is tied to mission completions per min. So the random public group is all about going fast. Cool, makes sense, most missions are made to go fast. But if you really were in favor of letting people play the way they want then we need to be implementing some things to slow down those that speed run missions. Oh wait, that hurts the playstyle you like. And I get it, that is what most of Warframe is about, but to cater to the majority means you outcast the minority. Give the minority their own little place to be the minority.

 

And as to your suggestion, that is downright insulting to everything I have said in this and countless other threads. Another mission that had high level enemies with no warm up would be great (cough*Kuva Assault*cough). Why is everyone so adamant about forming Survival to something it is not? Survival is about... (wait for it)... survival. Let the survival node be the mode where all the endurance folk played with eachother and then add some higher level Kuva mission to the fortress. You don't have to bastardize Survival to get a mode that would fit better in another place to begin with.

 

One last point on the "potential that it will get out of hand"

Fudge... off...

Every single other mission in the game actively encourages cheesing. You see Ember WoF everywhere, Maiming whips everywhere, -insert flavor of the month- everywhere. But oh no, if people start doing this cheese that I don't enjoy we just can't have that. There will be cheese, duh, this is Warframe. But as soon as you start balancing around cheese then the game is fizzle. You are letting a group of people ruin the experience for another group of people. Awesome, feels great to be punished for the actions of other people. You are being greedy, you are asking for a node and a mode that people have wanted for years to give life to endurance to not do just that. We are not asking for Kuva Survival to be the bee's knees (well, most aren't), we just want a mode that encourages endurance. Do you know what an Illusion of Choice is? That is what Kuva Survival is now, it is an illusion of choice for endurance.

 

Yes, I am 11/10 salty but you would too if you had people telling you that the way you enjoy playing Warframe is wrong.

Not sure why I try anymore, you won. If DE was going to change Kuva Survival they would have done something last patch. Congratulations, your efforts have dashed the small beacon of hope I had for a single node to reward endurance, give yourself a pat on the back.

[fluffysnowcap]

7 minutes ago, DrBorris said:

I could give you an essay about why I like endurance so much, but just trust me, I do honestly like endurance.

I think it is needed at this point.

[Kimimoto]

On 3/30/2018 at 12:52 AM, zWhiteKz said:

So here is my math for endless kuva to back it up:

we all know that right now endless reward 200/min

UT OH MATH AINT ADDING UP

Kuva needs to scale from 150 (Siphon Rewards) to 300 (Flood Rewards), because I can already run an unlimited amount of Floods with taxis. It would still be less Kuva with scaling, but it would definitely give incentive to 90% of the progression systems in the game that are currently unneeded and worthless.

Edited April 9, 2018 by Kimimoto

[Kimimoto]

On 4/5/2018 at 10:15 PM, zWhiteKz said:

Here is one of my thought, why not try to come up with the idea of a new node, a node that start from high lv and better reward already,

Oh you mean like a Kuva Floodvival? Starts at level 100 rewards scale from 200 to a 300 cap. GREAT IDEA!

[(PSN)Crixus044]

On 4/5/2018 at 10:15 PM, zWhiteKz said:

For me this is a good job done, like DE already stated, this is not gonna replace siphon/flood and at it core it still a survival mission 1st and the kuva is just a bonus add in just like with excavation with relic and cryotic, i like where DE heading too.

And for those who keep yelling scaling kuva/reward and use excuse that "harder enemies should reward more". Here is one of my thought, why not try to come up with the idea of a new node, a node that start from high lv and better reward already, rather than keep catering to a low lv node and play for a long time just to reach the "mark" u planned for urself and called it a challenge while with only 10-20 mins after the scaling go crazy? it like saying "i'm warming up for 40 mins". It not good and make player forcing to play for longer session in just 1 mission. With higher lv mission node add, the scaling can go slow and u can fight high lv enemies and have better reward and not have to deal with the "40 mins warm up". So enlighten me why u guys keep asking for scaling reward, and the potential it will get out of hand? all i see is greedy, get the most of the thing the fastest, and i understand that but like i said, doing that just only benefit the upper top player, the one who can do it. With higher node, players can choice is they can do it or not rather than have to wait for a long time in one mission to find out 

You ask for a mission that starts at a high level and has a higher reward. Like a kuva........flood? lol
Separate than that? For survival?
So...a checkpoint/milestone system right?

Instead of adding in a new node just to have a higher level, or having a node event, implement the scaling system, but with the checkpoint/milestone system, so that you can chose to scale up to whatever level you want, at your leisure. If you think it's too hard, you can chose to go back to a certain milestone or start all over, and start back up the scaling. At 75 minutes, average enemy in a survival is 150-160. This is around the same level that we had WAY back in 2015 during the Phoenix Intercept, a legendary event that really open the gates of high level missions. So this level is tested and proven to be passable by warframes and power WAY below our current abilities.

To give you a perspective of what was required for the mission, it was an interception mission that took place on Ceres, which removed interception from the tileset due to the "overspawning" of the tileset, so imagine an overly large number of level 150 grineer, and our only arsenal is a warframe and heavy blade weapon. Now this heavy melee weapon can only use mods and stats from before U17. Our 2 best heavy blade weapons were regular Galatine (No prime) and Scindo Prime. There was no Condition Overload, no Blood Rush, no Drifting contact, no Body Count, no Weeping wounds, no rivens, and the newest warframe was Nova Prime. Chroma hadn't even come out yet, Excalibur's 3rd ability was Super Jump, PArkour 2.0 hadn't come out yet, and rhino's absolute max iron skin was 3228. On top of this, we had what was called a Conclave restriction, which restricted the amount of mods we could put on our arsenal to a conclave rating of 400, so either you could use a half baked build for frame and weapon, use a full weapon build and bare naked warframe, or full warframe builds and a bare naked weapon. Also, the only primed mod we had was Primed Continuity. The reward for this was the introduction of Tempo Royale.

If us as a community can complete this mission and have fun doing it, implementing a kuva reward cap with a checkpoint/milestone system that caps out at this level will not be a problem whatsoever. To all my fellow Rift Sigil wearing Phoenix Intercept Escalation vets, I raise my cup to you.

I'm the ketchup and mustard Rhino. This was my group after we completed the event, spending 30 minutes just standing there getting compliments on how we completed the mission lol