Here is why we dont need kuva endless to scale

[zWhiteKz]

But why not just a flat increase i like present? it benefit both player who can do long run and who can only do short run? without make players feel like they have to stay for >100 to maximize the most kuva they get? and public match making for example a team of 3 with 1 rando (maximizing LS drop because 4 cells spawn most enemies), rando want to leave at 40mins mark but the team want to stay longer .... not viable at the moment. So in order for this to work we need to fix Spawn mechanic in survival mission or the % drop for LS base on the team cells ( i'm not a coder for game so i dont know if this even possible or not ) and a leave system which again dont have yet..... Also the new resource i propose is not a hard thing for them too add into the game database but the mechanic well, i can see that my idea can have issue too. And what about each tower drop a range of kuva (already mention in my post) like 200-300 or even i dare say 200-350? basicly this a also a flat increase but with RNG for may be more than normal u will get? better?. Also u have to crack relic until this 100 mins mark for the bonus which in kuva case is what? sacrafice kuva for more kuva in return... that doesnt sound right

Edited April 4, 2018 by zWhiteKz
Typo and some point

[fluffysnowcap]

1 hour ago, zWhiteKz said:

But why not just a flat increase i like present? it benefit both player who can do long run and who can only do short run? without make players feel like they have to stay for >100 to maximize the most kuva they get?

Because i'm after tackling all endless mission instead of just kuva survival

 

1 hour ago, zWhiteKz said:

and public match making for example a team of 3 with 1 rando (maximizing LS drop because 4 cells spawn most enemies), rando want to leave at 40mins mark but the team want to stay longer .... not viable at the moment.

I dont, the most i Expect is it to create a new meta of going to 40 minutes. and for the wanting to leave but there's a reason i have been ragging on this point↓↓↓↓

7 hours ago, fluffysnowcap said:

• Allow players to SOLO extract from survival mission and keep that loot.

 

1 hour ago, zWhiteKz said:

So in order for this to work we need to fix Spawn mechanic in survival mission

This is something Vets have been saying since Potato survival optimization in U 11-13 not sure which.

 

1 hour ago, zWhiteKz said:

new resource i propose is not a hard thing for them too add into the game database but the mechanic well, i can see that my idea can have issue too.

Main issue i see is with the players, as it will add a brand new level of complexity to keep track off, and from what i have seen in this game needless complexity is a larger gatekeeper than mechanical challenges. 

 

1 hour ago, zWhiteKz said:

And what about each tower drop a range of kuva (already mention in my post) like 200-300 or even i dare say 200-350? basicly this a also a flat increase but with RNG for may be more than normal u will get? better?. Also u have to crack relic until this 100 mins mark for the bonus which in kuva case is what? sacrafice kuva for more kuva in return... that doesnt sound right

If the bonus required Crack relic i can safely say all players would Demand the prime rewards, as for costing kuva that has a potential to make it even more rewarding than it currently is. RNG Kuva extractor wouldn't feel very nice, seeing you mare get 3, 350 kuva drops in a row with a booster active then you look at your booster free game play getting drops of 200... there getting 3.5 times as much as you at the same game time. Removing the Void relics and prime parts from the Void fissure reward system ecosystem should be enough, and to prevent it from becoming as objectively better than Void fissure replacing the relic drop with a drop is needed,

Most fitting drop to use is a planets appropriate rare resorce, IE. Neurodes on earth, Neural Sensors from Jupiter and finally Kuva from Kuva Fortress. And possibly it can include endo or credit catches.

[zWhiteKz]

So basicly make all endless mission scale like this with only kuva endless sacrafice kuva for a growing "free" booster to reach it cap? what about other tile set/planet what will the sacrafice be? and this system gonna slow down the game compare to how endless mission right now we have which is safe to say DE gonna pass this i afraid.

[fluffysnowcap]

25 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

So basicly make all endless mission scale like this with only kuva endless sacrafice kuva for a growing "free" booster to reach it cap? what about other tile set/planet what will the sacrafice be?

no no no, no sacrifice for this scaling, the sacrifice is the time you have to put in.

 

26 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

and this system gonna slow down the game compare to how endless mission right now we have which is safe to say DE gonna pass this i afraid.

I doubt this will affect the way how people play endless missions, well it a little but that's just optimised farming squads so no point trying to balance around them, just the occasional and painful (yes to me too) whack a mole the devs have to do, to prevent extreme exploitation.

[zWhiteKz]

3 minutes ago, fluffysnowcap said:

no no no, no sacrifice for this scaling, the sacrifice is the time you have to put in.

Then that just de-meaning the current fissure system, which only give bonus when u spend relic. Also slow down here mean the flow of the gameplay not optimizing farming squad.

[fluffysnowcap]

7 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

Then that just de-meaning the current fissure system, which only give bonus when u spend relic. Also slow down here mean the flow of the gameplay not optimizing farming squad.

Yes it is making the void seem worse, however the void fissure system resource bonus affect "Void Trace's", and vast majority of people are running endless void as its the only mission for the relic they want loot from at the time.

The slow down is due to picking prime parts and the next relic, with out the need to pick your loot or relic you can just get a popup to display the new bonus after the loot rotation reward.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

8 hours ago, zWhiteKz said:

And i dont assumpt anything that doesnt base on the history of Warframe Remember why DE nerf trinity buff to 75%? remember why Valkyr Hysteria energy consumption? for what? to prevent EXTREME long run and just flat out minigate damage of scaling enemies to 0% so tell me where is my fall-out logic? everything i say and stand for is in Warframe history nothing that i make up (except ideas for another way to gain more kuva with interactive method) rather than just scale reward and done. Scaling problem is still there and not gonna go away any time soon but if it not fixed at it is right now it just gonna make it harder to put new content in and balance it with hundred of other stuff around it. Why do u think DE try to do house-keeping update right now? it Old that why and so the scaling system that is flaw and the short window of "either u 1 shot enemies or they 1 shot u". Also u think i only do 4 endure survivals? now that is assumption

Also when u said it only affect Riven market and those who sell for 5k+, sure it will but remember DE livestock is the economy system too

Actually, those nerfs you mention say the opposite. They don't say "Don't do high levels." This is evidence that DE wants us do high levels, just don't cheese it. If you think about it, those nerfs don't make a difference for current content. This is evident by me using a saryn as a tank in sorties lol. Saryn...

Those nerfs really only make a difference in higher levels. Plus,  DE makes decisions on popularity more than performance. This is most evident with their riven system.

7 hours ago, zWhiteKz said:

Then why just play survival as it is and see kuva as a side bonus, why ask for kuva scaling so u have a "motivation" to do it? Hypocrite much? People who do survival for endure run just do it, they dont care if there is a bonus or not, but for the people yelling kuva scaling is just want to kuva, simple, and that not endure runner, that kuva addicts aka slot machine players

Actually, while there is truth to this, this doesn't say the whole story. I'm the guy that went 5-6 hour survivals back in 2015. I would go as long as i had time because I had the time to spare and the ability to tackle those levels. Now, i got responsibilities and work, thus i can't even play for more than an hour if i wanted to. Now, i got more skill than ever, my builds are super strong, buffs up the booty, and the math to follow. Now all i need is the time and the community.

Right now, everyone is asking for the challenge. If you were there back in 2015, it'd feel like deja vu. Right now, there's no reason or incentive to reach those levels because the benefit doesn't outweigh the time. The time is a big issue, and i feel that your gripe of being against endurance is the time you need to invest rather than the difficulty of the level.

There's 3 things at play, and you said them. Scaling reward, checkpoint/milestone system, and enemy spawns. If you'd like my formula for enemy scaling rework, I'd be happy to share. The checkpoint system i already shared, and the i see you liked the formula for capped scalling rewards. There we are then. I hope this helps you understand.

[zWhiteKz]

Of course i understand the fundemental of the issue with the current scaling in WF for either it survival or defense, for me armor can be solve somewhat easy: just make armor a flat reduce for x type of enemies. Example: Butcher will always have a base of x armor and that base not gonna scale period which result in butcher only have x reduce damage vs attack, Heavy gunner will have higher base armor which reduce more than Butcher, simply dont scale armor alone is fixing the armor issue and keep the armor from scaling to 99.99999999% damage reduction and make mod like "shattering impact" somewhat usable again. Damage scaling is another can of worm as u can see when doing edure run, the window from hit 10-20hp each hit to 1 shot is small with the current damage scaling right now hence the shield gating idea from DE then got scrap later on. Hp scaling is also an issue here with high lv enemies especialy infest which even make this worse not to mention Corpus Tech gunner and Scramba base hp is already high > enemies bullet sandbag. Sure this can be challenging but it just unfair and make the run end up mass cc minigate 100% enemies output damage or hide behind a corner and take advantage of the AI partern.

The only reason why i dont like scaling reward right now is the time gating hence why i dont really want endless kuva to encourage this kind of gameplay without fixing the problems above 1st, we dont have mission that let u go from high lv but have to wait 40-60 mins just to get to that mark and then the scaling go out of hand very fast.

Fun Fact: im the 2nd guys who get a day 1 of Corinth riven and rolls it for more than 150+ times before i sell it and also roll a shjt tons scoliac rivens so yeah im glad that i finally free from that kind of addictive kuva gameplay, it not healthy.

 

Edited April 4, 2018 by zWhiteKz
Fun fact

[fluffysnowcap]

1 hour ago, zWhiteKz said:

Fun Fact: im the 2nd guys who get a day 1 of Corinth riven and rolls it for more than 150+ times before i sell it and also roll a shjt tons scoliac rivens so yeah im glad that i finally free from that kind of addictive kuva gameplay, it not healthy.

I recommend Consulting your local physician to see whether or not you have caught tinnitus.

Also that fun fact made me want to slap you, your exactly the kind of player to benefit the most from what I suggested with being able to go past the rest your team and get rewarded more heavily for doing so.

[Sonicbullitt]

48 minutes ago, fluffysnowcap said:

I recommend Consulting your local physician to see whether or not you have caught tinnitus.

Also that fun fact made me want to slap you, your exactly the kind of player to benefit the most from what I suggested with being able to go past the rest your team and get rewarded more heavily for doing so.

Yet this fool is against scaling for some reason, when quite clearly it would benefit his playstyle. Again, from what logic is he arguing from ? There is no evidence that rewards scaling will have an inherently negative effect  on the game. It is pretty much a net gain, so again the opposition to this seems to be nothing but vapid reasoning.

[zWhiteKz]

I dont want a play mode that benefit only myself nor people act that way and im right now is better and let me have a better view point compare when i like that. Right now if we may endless kuva or any endless mission reward scale for longer duration, fundemental this is right "harder enemies more reward" but this is just a middle finger to people who dont have much time to play and end up semi make player have to stay in mission longer than they wanted. Not to mention there are many element right now agaisnt longer player style Damage/Hp/Armor scaling, leave/checkpoint system, LS drop rate/enemies spawn ( for survival ). Adding scaling reward feel like adding a bandaid to a bandaid ( kuva ) to a bandaid ( riven system ) it may solve few problems right now but new feature/implement/balance later gonna be a nightmare for the devs team. Still see add plat amount to each tower will be better than scaling reward, or harder node with better drop to star off rather than scaling for 100 mins like u sugguest 

6 hours ago, Sonicbullitt said:

Yet this fool is against scaling for some reason, when quite clearly it would benefit his playstyle.

Also sir, I'm not a selfish person, i dont try to balance thing around me sir hence the scaling would benefit me but it gonna hurt the game, and please can we stop with the isult? i mean it the internet but as the same time the person typing is a human too

[DeMonkey]

7 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

Right now if we may endless kuva or any endless mission reward scale for longer duration, fundemental this is right "harder enemies more reward" but this is just a middle finger to people who dont have much time to play and end up semi make player have to stay in mission longer than they wanted.

No, it wouldn't. People who don't have much time to play can run Siphons and Floods, both of which will give higher amounts of Kuva in a short period than Endless will.

I'll repeat for clarity, even as it stands now players under time pressure will not be running survival for Kuva, they will be running Floods and Siphons given they give greater burst amounts and have more controllable mission durations.

As for other missions, same situation. Players under a time constraint should not be playing an endless game mode with random people they have no control over.

[zWhiteKz]

22 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

As for other missions, same situation. Players under a time constraint should not be playing an endless game mode with random people they have no control over.

So basicly u said that player that dont have time can't play endless mission just because they can't stay long for loot? This kind of balance just lock part of the game for new player, unexperience player just come to the game. This is why the AABC Rotation system work , only 20 mins to reach the most reward out of an endless mission, so people have low time to play can benefit from this and players play for longer can gain more resources, credits, affinity keep scaling as enemies lv go up, more rotations with no down time between rotations. I know WF lack a "mechanic end game" right now but gating reward behind time is not great for anyone. I would rather have little reward give back each mission rather than have to sit in one for many hours even if it benefit mutliply

Edited April 5, 2018 by zWhiteKz
Typo

[DeMonkey]

7 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

So basicly u said that player that dont have time can't play endless mission just because they can't stay long for loot? This kind of balance just lock part of the game for new player, unexperience player just come to the game. This is why the AABC Rotation system work , only 20 mins to reach the most reward out of an endless mission, so people have low time to play can benefit from this and players play for longer can gain more resources, credits, affinity keep scaling as enemies lv go up, more rotations with no down time between rotations. I know WF lack a "mechanic end game" right now but gating reward behind time is not great for anyone. I would rather have little reward give back each mission rather than have to sit in one for many hours even if it benefit mutliply

I'm sorry but what?

No, I didn't say they 'cant' play Endless, I said players with a time restraint shouldn't play Endless with randoms, that's the only scenario in which a player may be forced to play longer. With friends or pugs you can arrange to leave at a certain time if yo desperately want to play survival. 

However, if you only have 20 minutes then even with fissure scaling added Siphons and Floods will still be the better option. If you have a short amount of time to play and specifically want Kuva then those are the missions you should be running.

Pointing out that this wouldn't be fair on players with limited time is quite frankly irrelevant when there are shorter yet more rewarding missions already available.

[zWhiteKz]

Ok 1st im sorry that assumpt that u said players can't play endless mission if they not prepare for it. But then like u said

8 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

If you have a short amount of time to play and specifically want Kuva then those are the missions you should be running.

Then why make kuva scaling in endless like u wanted that eventually with the scaling gonna out weight any siphon/flood to run, that doesnt seem fair at all in my perspective. I know that make endure run appeal more is not wrong but design gameplay time base on a gate of have to play longer mission ( 30-40 mins+ ) just for 1 mission is not good in general in my opinion. And the reason why players want more kuva scaling than rather just a flat increase is due to the cost of 3.5k each roll after reach 9 rolls, but u have to keep in mind that not all players can't reach this roll nor care bout much kuva that gonna shift the whole endless mission system just because kuva now enter an endless type mission

[DeMonkey]

7 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

Ok 1st im sorry that assumpt that u said players can't play endless mission if they not prepare for it. But then like u said

Then why make kuva scaling in endless like u wanted that eventually with the scaling gonna out weight any siphon/flood to run, that doesnt seem fair at all in my perspective. I know that make endure run appeal more is not wrong but design gameplay time base on a gate of have to play longer mission ( 30-40 mins+ ) just for 1 mission is not good in general in my opinion. And the reason why players want more kuva scaling than rather just a flat increase is due to the cost of 3.5k each roll after reach 9 rolls, but u have to keep in mind that not all players can't reach this roll nor care bout much kuva that gonna shift the whole endless mission system just because kuva now enter an endless type mission

Why make endless scale? Because not everyone only has 20 minutes to spare. Not everyone wants to spend their lives running short mission after short mission.

And it's perfectly fair, if you're fighting enemies that are a higher level than those found in a flood why shouldn't you get more Kuva? Same for all endless missons.

Nobody has to play for that length of time, as I've already stated Siphons and Floods are better for burst Kuva even if fissure scaling is implemented.

Inb4 you just repeat a point you've made before because pointless circular argument.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

8 hours ago, zWhiteKz said:

Of course i understand the fundemental of the issue with the current scaling in WF for either it survival or defense, for me armor can be solve somewhat easy: just make armor a flat reduce for x type of enemies. Example: Butcher will always have a base of x armor and that base not gonna scale period which result in butcher only have x reduce damage vs attack, Heavy gunner will have higher base armor which reduce more than Butcher, simply dont scale armor alone is fixing the armor issue and keep the armor from scaling to 99.99999999% damage reduction and make mod like "shattering impact" somewhat usable again. Damage scaling is another can of worm as u can see when doing edure run, the window from hit 10-20hp each hit to 1 shot is small with the current damage scaling right now hence the shield gating idea from DE then got scrap later on. Hp scaling is also an issue here with high lv enemies especialy infest which even make this worse not to mention Corpus Tech gunner and Scramba base hp is already high > enemies bullet sandbag. Sure this can be challenging but it just unfair and make the run end up mass cc minigate 100% enemies output damage or hide behind a corner and take advantage of the AI partern.

The only reason why i dont like scaling reward right now is the time gating hence why i dont really want endless kuva to encourage this kind of gameplay without fixing the problems above 1st, we dont have mission that let u go from high lv but have to wait 40-60 mins just to get to that mark and then the scaling go out of hand very fast.

Fun Fact: im the 2nd guys who get a day 1 of Corinth riven and rolls it for more than 150+ times before i sell it and also roll a shjt tons scoliac rivens so yeah im glad that i finally free from that kind of addictive kuva gameplay, it not healthy.

 

And about this problem with time, like I said, there is a simple solution that should've been implemented in every survival mission up to daate, which is the checkpoint/milestone system with an ability to exit a survival solo. This completely fixes the problem with time, because the scaling is spread at your leisure, as is the level you wan to reach.

The thing with Armor scaling is it really is a null point. All armor is effectively is an EHp multiplier, so an enemy with so much armor has that much EHp, and that's the challenge, the EHp itself, so even if you cap the armor or change the scaling, the health itself will scale up to the point where the EHp is the same, thus nothing really was accomplished, but reducing the enemy's tankiness at lower levels, which they do not need, trust me. Forget armor scaling. It's a null point. I was on your side onw time, but I have grown out of that. If you would like, I'll throw up some of my old threads when I thought armor scaling needed fixing. Shattering Impact is 100% usable, because it takes off flat amounts of BASE armor, thus is scales infinitely. If a heavy gunner has 500 armor at base, then it will take 84 hits to strip it of armor. This means that at level 1 to 9999, no matter how much armor the heavy gunner has, it will always take 84 hits to completely strip it.

This is proven by if you grab Shattering Impact and hit a butcher once, no matter what level, it will completely strip his armor, because he has 5 armor at base, while Shattering impact strips 6. At level 100, a butcher has 83 armor. This proves the math.

If you would like more math, let me know.

[zWhiteKz]

Ok, this is my point of view:

Flat increase to 250: After 3 tower u gain 750 ( 90 x 3 = 270s - 4.5 mins) > Siphon can be done in fast 4 min and slow 6 mins. But less than flood which can be done in same window of time.

Flat increase to 300: After 3 tower u gain 900 > 1.5 better than Siphon (avg 625) and less than Flood (avg 1250).

Keep in mind that there is no down time in endless making this somewhat scale up more than net Siphon/Flood u run later on and also u can only do 5 siphon and 1 flood ( avg 4375 kuva )  in hour. Doesn't flat increase like this not enough for u? If not then AABC rotation can have kuva caches in it ( like Fluffy said on the upper post ). In conclusion this will increase hugh amount of kuva flow into the playerbase right now rather than 200 and reward like benefits anyone either they have time to play or not, it fair.

But when scaling reward come in and it only benefit the players who can go to this extreme case of scaling, and only those will benefit from a scaling system not the all of the player base as a whole. It like making the richer ( people who can do long survival/endless mission run ) richer than the poor ( the people who can only do endless mission to some extent ) poorer. At the same time making special resource like kuva ( link to the Lore ) become like nano spores when people that have rolls all the riven they want ( having more than enough resource is not a bad thing, i get it, but it not a good thing either )

Edit: 

Quote

This is proven by if you grab Shattering Impact and hit a butcher once, no matter what level, it will completely strip his armor, because he has 5 armor at base, while Shattering impact strips 6. At level 100, a butcher has 83 armor. This proves the math.

yeah sorry that forgot that Shattering reduce base armor which mean scale doesnt do anything but the scale that make high lv butcher as tanking as a heavy gunner doesnt seem logic to me.

Edited April 5, 2018 by zWhiteKz
Edit

[(PSN)Crixus044]

21 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

Ok, this is my point of view:

Flat increase to 250: After 3 tower u gain 750 ( 90 x 3 = 270s - 4.5 mins) > Siphon can be done in fast 4 min and slow 6 mins. But less than flood which can be done in same window of time.

Flat increase to 300: After 3 tower u gain 900 > 1.5 better than Siphon (avg 625) and less than Flood (avg 1250).

Keep in mind that there is no down time in endless making this somewhat scale up more than net Siphon/Flood u run later on and also u can only do 5 siphon and 1 flood ( avg 4375 kuva )  in hour. Doesn't flat increase like this not enough for u? If not then AABC rotation can have kuva caches in it ( like Fluffy said on the upper post ). In conclusion this will increase hugh amount of kuva flow into the playerbase right now rather than 200 and reward like benefits anyone either they have time to play or not, it fair.

But when scaling reward come in and it only benefit the players who can go to this extreme case of scaling, and only those will benefit from a scaling system not the all of the player base as a whole. It like making the richer ( people who can do long survival/endless mission run ) richer than the poor ( the people who can only do endless mission to some extent ) poorer. At the same time making special resource like kuva ( link to the Lore ) become like nano spores when people that have rolls all the riven they want ( having more than enough resource is not a bad thing, i get it, but it not a good thing either )

A flat increase is just more of the same, 20 minutes and out mentality. We want something different, a reason to try hard. There's no reason or way to fight high levels without signing off your whole day. We want this. Scaling rewards AND a flat increase to 250 with the formula I gave you may work, as in PERFECTION, it is less than kuva floods, less the siphons, but after 20 minutes, it'll be more than siphons, but still less than floods. Either way, it'll be less than floods. This is more than about the kuva, it's about the mission.

And AGAIN, AGAIN, AGAIN!!! If the time is what bothers you, the checkpoint/milestone system is the perfect answer. It's obvious that the only possible gripe your can have is the time and you can't fight the higher level enemies. About the time, checkpoint system fixes this, and about the levels, this will come with time, as you become better at the game.

This whole, rich get richer, poor get poorer is ALMOST spoiled entitlement. I am not saying this about you, don't get my meaning confused, but in video games, where competition and getting better is the goal, rewarding those who play better is the right step and cattering to those who can't get the best stuff yet is just spoiling them. Not able to reach level 100s? that's ok, here's the riven that you would've gotten and we'll give it to you at the t1 sortie. Is that fair to those that can and wanted to get it at the level 100 mission? What's the point of garing up for level 100s, when level 50 is the only goal? It's like the fishing saying, but with kuva. Give the man fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man how fish, and you feed him for a lifetime. You have to get better, and the ONLY constant her that we ALL agree is a problem with endurance runs is the consecutive time we must put in to get there, but like I said, you get the checkpoint/milestone system down packed, and absolutely every problem is solved. Every single one.

Edited April 5, 2018 by (PS4)Crixus044

[zWhiteKz]

i know that but right now if we touch that then it also mean leave/check point system need to touch, scaling need to touch ( which DE kinda avoid right now ), damage system need to touch, it a can of worms i dont think DE want to touch right now with new content being rapid add to keep the game fresh, and bug fix - Eidolon still disapear even if lure is link havent been fix for how many patches now. With just increase the base amount DE can comeback later to fix these problems and add the scaling reward to the game but right now it doesnt seem to work if we ignore the core problems endless reward build on.

Edited April 5, 2018 by zWhiteKz

[Thundervision]

It doesn't need extra Kuva or its scaling if your intention is to stay ≤20min and you totally accept the lack of any encouragement. After all, it sounds fair for a casual mode which Endless Kuva is (within the first full rotation time-gate), and right concept-wise.

But it absolutely needs scaling Kuva when you reach Kuva Flood's enemy level thus raising the stakes and difficulty by a lot, especially if you're not abusing broken mechanics. You don't need to be a game designer to see that there's no rewarding in staying longer than needed to create artificial obstacles in getting the same reward at 120min you were getting at 5min, and that it's, in fact, not OK.

You also don't need to be a pure hater, or a crybaby when the entire feedback thread regarding the upcoming(!) mission with predictions, concerns and suggestions that it's about damn time to start righting the wrongs (I wonder how many people still remember endless Hellfire Defense and how hard it was to push DE to make at least accumulative rewards) gets completely ignored. Well, sorry, not completely! They listened to and abandoned this one because it's already being affected by Smeeta and boosters:

Quote

Developer note: Deciding to make the Kuva be a physical Koolaid bottle-looking drop allows for Resource Boosters and Smeeta Kavats Charm to apply! 

Yay? Yay!

Though it's not just Sheldon, there's at least one more very vocal, on this matter, and person working with Sheldon when it comes to missions and rewards. Most of WF vets sure know him or even have a rich... history.

It's really upsetting that in order to make the devs listen to feedback/community the latter one has to reach the boiling point first and even start bashing. Many things got improved over WF's journey time, in many cases the devs are communicating and listening to players (for example, Pablo, George, Steve, Dmitri, Kari), but in many other cases it's the opposite (just like Kuva Workshop or just like the PoE Bounty rewards).

 

Mildly offtopic:

The picture is actually much bigger than just something-something Kuva. Scaling reward could be the first step in right direction to make a Fissure Endless counterpart mechanics and rewards-wise. Long story short, just like we got weapons rebalance, Star Chart rewards and missions need a rebalance, too.

There are only so many truly rewarding missions and it's almost as if it literally would kill DE to make things like Sabotage Caches or Bounty rewards a bit more rewarding. Just a bit! But instead we're in situations where I'd say DE take the vets existence into account when coming up with the concepts or conditions while also coming up with rewards that  are more fitting for low-mid tiers as well as putting most of their efforts ensuring players will be pissed off aka dilluting the reward list with pure crap drawing a clear line between it and rewards. What? Making all 'possible rewards' real rewards aka not getting a sweet candy you wanted, yet not feeling mid-fingered in the face either? THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE!

Ah, well. Some missions, like Hijack and Mobile Defense, don't even have rewards pool in the first place.

Or, remember when we had a chance for pre-built Forma in the Void Keys system? Now it's what... just Lua and Sortie? Why the hell does Sortie even have a single Forma, not 2, not 3. Just one Forma. Why isn't Uncommon Forma BP in the Relics a pre-built one? Why the hell does Sortie have 6000 Kuva instead of 7000 when a capped re-roll costs 3500 Kuva? Why the hell there are basically two Endo entries in Sortie? Why the hell does Sabotage Cache give you 350 Polymers or 400 Rubedo for spending about 20 friggin' minutes to find the caches which isn't even affected by Resource Booster as well as Sortie Kuva? Oh, the Xiphos you say. Well, I'm at probably 6k hours atm and I'm yet to get my first Xiphos part. I'm not even starting Stabilizer/Steady Hands talk, because the list goes on and on.

 

So when the time comes and there's chance we can finally address the lack of any encouragement to stay in endless mission for getting a better candy, this gets... ignored. And only when the people explode the forums, they are going to look into feedback. Seems legit.

There's certainly a golden mean in keeping the grind the way DE want while also making rewards feeling more... rewarding rather than a kick in the balls.

[fluffysnowcap]

8 hours ago, zWhiteKz said:

If not then AABC rotation can have kuva caches in it ( like Fluffy said on the upper post ).

I was saying in addition to the AABC not replacing it.

[zWhiteKz]

4 hours ago, fluffysnowcap said:

I was saying in addition to the AABC not replacing it.

that what i wrote ... "add" to the drop table not replacing it.

[fluffysnowcap]

7 minutes ago, zWhiteKz said:

that what i wrote ... "add" to the drop table not replacing it.

Might i recommend getting a browser extension called "Read Aloud: A Text to Speech Voice Reader" It may help you to have your text read back to you. As that way you get to here the mistakes you've made in word choices.

 

[zWhiteKz]

2 minutes ago, fluffysnowcap said:

Might i recommend getting a browser extension called "Read Aloud: A Text to Speech Voice Reader" It may help you to have your text read back to you. As that way you get to here the mistakes you've made in word choices.

 

If not then AABC rotation can have kuva caches in it. We good now?

Anyway back to the topic, it seem that DE have acknowledge that kuva survival is different from normal survival after 22.17.1 patch? 

• Taveuni node on the Kuva Fortress now indicates that it’s a Kuva Survival as opposed to a regular Survival.

But no changing make so far, i guess they need more datas to make sure future change dont end up back fire.

And is this an attempt to make a checkpoint/leave system for survival mission?

• The Extraction marker now shows at every rotation C for 60 seconds (as well as the original 5 mins), and when players are at Extraction and triggered the countdown.

I dont understand this one... so it encourage player to extract when rotation C is reach?