I need an explanation please

[mvaldess]

I play conclave every now and then and have fun most of the time, but I see some really weird things:

1. I'm have a Whirlwind ranking, I always have the check mark in "Recruit Conditioning" and today I saw a Volt with overshield. I know it's possible with a mod from Hurricane-rank. If this player has a Whirlwind ranking, why is allowed to use a Hurricane-rank mod with "Recruit Conditioning"? If this player has a Hurricane ranking, why is he allowed to play with me?

2. In "Team Annihilation" sometimes I see an ally as an enemy. I mean: with red border and a red mark in the minimap. Why? Is that normal or it's broken? (BTW I can not hurt him).

3. In "Team Annihilation" the balancing is wrong. At the begining the match is 3 vs 3 by 2 to 15. Then 2 players from the losing team leave and a balancing occurs. The new team is 2 vs 2 by 2 to 15. I mean the balancing kept the two best players in the same team. Why? Where is the balance?

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

1 minute ago, mvaldess said:

3. In "Team Annihilation" the balancing is wrong. At the begining the match is 3 vs 3 by 2 to 15. Then 2 players from the losing team leave and a balancing occurs. The new team is 2 vs 2 by 2 to 15. I mean the balancing kept the two best players in the same team. Why? Where is the balance?

I don't know about the other 2 points, but the most likely explanation for this one is that they joined conclave in a squad together, and therefore the matchmaking can't split them apart.

[Rawbeard]

1) he traded the mod. so can you

2) probably a bug. similar things happen with rad proc, it's been a long time since I played conclave, but maybe he had it proc on him at some point and the game derped.

[squidd]

Either the other player traded for the mod, or he was in a lobby which was not RC when the P2P host disconnected, and the new host had RC selected. In that corner case, the match becomes RC-mode but keeps higher reward-tree-leveled players in there when they should normally be disallowed. Personally, I would pay little attention to it, because recruit conditioning is something that should be looked into further to be redesigned to better fit what is believed to be its intended purpose. The only thing it does properly by design is negate rare mods.

Teammate representation as an enemy is a bug that has occurred for a long time, but I believe it also occurs naturally when radiation effect is applied as stated above. There are cases where the two are related and cases where they are not. There is also the possibility that, if the player was actually an enemy Nyx, the Mind Control skill could have been used to negate all damage dealt from you to the user. Worth noting, though I do trust you when you say it was a teammate.

The balancing is wrong. It does not care what Syndicate rank any player is (nor should it; it is not an accurate metric) and it does not care about the performance of a player before swapping. It only tries to keep the player count even on both sides. That's it. I talked about some things of this sort in a thread a few months ago, explaining some of the difficulties with Team Annihilation team management and game mode behaviors.

Unfortunately, there really is not much more to it than that. These are issues that could very easily be taken care of by a couple design meetings and a short development effort, but I'm sure it is difficult to pitch Conclave updates when the generalized playerbase continuously shows profound contempt for any development resources spent on the Conclave project. Hopefully someday, more clear and streamlines posts about these problems can gain some level of traction that can make something happen. Until then, hang in there.

Edited April 7, 2018 by squidd

[mvaldess]

9 hours ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

I don't know about the other 2 points, but the most likely explanation for this one is that they joined conclave in a squad together, and therefore the matchmaking can't split them apart.

I do not know what to think about that, it seems good and bad at the same time ...
It is good that friends play together, but if both are very good they make the game boring for the rest and that is why they leave the game in less than 1 minute.

thank you.

[mvaldess]

9 hours ago, Rawbeard said:

1) he traded the mod. so can you

2) probably a bug. similar things happen with rad proc, it's been a long time since I played conclave, but maybe he had it proc on him at some point and the game derped.

1) If he bought it, it's like paying to win. Even if he got it himself, I think it's not fair to use mods of an advanced ranking against begginers.

2) in my case this ally has shown as enemy at some point until the end of the match. wasn't just 10 seconds. and we couldn't deal damage to each other.

thank you.

[mvaldess]

8 hours ago, squidd said:

Either the other player traded for the mod, or he was in a lobby which was not RC when the P2P host disconnected, and the new host had RC selected. In that corner case, the match becomes RC-mode but keeps higher reward-tree-leveled players in there when they should normally be disallowed. Personally, I would pay little attention to it, because recruit conditioning is something that should be looked into further to be redesigned to better fit what is believed to be its intended purpose. The only thing it does properly by design is negate rare mods.

Yes, this needs a little attention. This gives a great advantage to some players, even if it is not their intention.

Teammate representation as an enemy is a bug that has occurred for a long time, but I believe it also occurs naturally when radiation effect is applied as stated above. There are cases where the two are related and cases where they are not. There is also the possibility that, if the player was actually an enemy Nyx, the Mind Control skill could have been used to negate all damage dealt from you to the user. Worth noting, though I do trust you when you say it was a teammate.

This situation lasted the whole match, not just 10 seconds, I almost emptied the ammo from my gun without dealing damage. At some point I just stoped looking the minimap and began to learn the name of my teammates. This happend more than once.

The balancing is wrong. It does not care what Syndicate rank any player is (nor should it; it is not an accurate metric) and it does not care about the performance of a player before swapping. It only tries to keep the player count even on both sides. That's it. I talked about some things of this sort in a thread a few months ago, explaining some of the difficulties with Team Annihilation team management and game mode behaviors.

I don't know exactly how to fix this, but I know it's not fun get your a## kicked in a humiliating way. Playing conclave should be fun.

The game should give you a chance to win after a balancing process. If not, why bother to balance?

Unfortunately, there really is not much more to it than that. These are issues that could very easily be taken care of by a couple design meetings and a short development effort, but I'm sure it is difficult to pitch Conclave updates when the generalized playerbase continuously shows profound contempt for any development resources spent on the Conclave project. Hopefully someday, more clear and streamlines posts about these problems can gain some level of traction that can make something happen. Until then, hang in there.

Yeah, I hope they do more than just balancing weapons and frames.

I really liked events like "Snowday Showdown" and "Quick Steel", both gave you the same gear to fight and everything depended on your ability (and ping)

 

Thank you.

 

 

[Rawbeard]

40 minutes ago, mvaldess said:

1) If he bought it, it's like paying to win. Even if he got it himself, I think it's not fair to use mods of an advanced ranking against begginers.

it's also unfair to use mods a beginner could have, but hasn't obtained yet.

[SevenLetterKWord]

19 hours ago, mvaldess said:

1. I'm have a Whirlwind ranking, I always have the check mark in "Recruit Conditioning" and today I saw a Volt with overshield. I know it's possible with a mod from Hurricane-rank. If this player has a Whirlwind ranking, why is allowed to use a Hurricane-rank mod with "Recruit Conditioning"? If this player has a Hurricane ranking, why is he allowed to play with me?

There are multiple ways to gain overshields. Don't assume that it must be from the one way that you know about.
In this situation, it's most likely that he gained it from an allied Mag casting Crush.

19 hours ago, mvaldess said:

2. In "Team Annihilation" sometimes I see an ally as an enemy. I mean: with red border and a red mark in the minimap. Why? Is that normal or it's broken? (BTW I can not hurt him).

If an ally dies while under the influence of a radiation proc, he may be marked as an enemy on the minimap for his next life.
Shouldn't apply to the red aura, though. Maybe his color scheme just has a lot of red.

19 hours ago, mvaldess said:

3. In "Team Annihilation" the balancing is wrong. At the begining the match is 3 vs 3 by 2 to 15. Then 2 players from the losing team leave and a balancing occurs. The new team is 2 vs 2 by 2 to 15. I mean the balancing kept the two best players in the same team. Why? Where is the balance?

Are you assuming that because the score has stayed the same, the best two players must have remained on the same team?

Nonsense.
Rebalancing doesn't change the score. Ask yourself: If it did, then why is the score still 2-15?
^{(The only explanation would be that both the leaving players and the player who was moved across teams had zero Oro - not a likely situation.)}

The best players may very well have changed teams - it's basically random. The rebalancing mechanic certainly isn't trying to stack uneven teams.

9 hours ago, mvaldess said:

1) If he bought it, it's like paying to win. Even if he got it himself, I think it's not fair to use mods of an advanced ranking against begginers.

Rare mods are disabled within RC. 

18 hours ago, squidd said:

In that corner case, the match becomes RC-mode but keeps higher reward-tree-leveled players in there when they should normally be disallowed

In this situation, the rare mods would be disabled.
IIRC (it's been a long time since I've seen a host migration), the EHP of all players would also be reset.

8 hours ago, Rawbeard said:

it's also unfair to use mods a beginner could have, but hasn't obtained yet.

Absurd. That's literally all mods.

[mvaldess]

3 hours ago, SevenLetterKWord said:

There are multiple ways to gain overshields. Don't assume that it must be from the one way that you know about.
In this situation, it's most likely that he gained it from an allied Mag casting Crush.

I'm not sure if there was an Mag in their team, but is possible.

3 hours ago, SevenLetterKWord said:

If an ally dies while under the influence of a radiation proc, he may be marked as an enemy on the minimap for his next life.
Shouldn't apply to the red aura, though. Maybe his color scheme just has a lot of red.

Happened to me several times yesterday: this ally has the same red aura of an enemy, by looking one next to another you will think both are enemies.

3 hours ago, SevenLetterKWord said:

Are you assuming that because the score has stayed the same, the best two players must have remained on the same team?

Nonsense.
Rebalancing doesn't change the score. Ask yourself: If it did, then why is the score still 2-15?
^{(The only explanation would be that both the leaving players and the player who was moved across teams had zero Oro - not a likely situation.)}

The best players may very well have changed teams - it's basically random. The rebalancing mechanic certainly isn't trying to stack uneven teams.

The match had already started, and the game put me on the losing team (3v3), I do not know what happened exactly during the first minute, but after the balancing I verified the progress of the game and the other team added a score of 15. I stayed until the end of the massacre match... and wasn't fun. Now I understand why a few players leave some matches.

Maybe, when I got in the match this was 3v2 (losers vs winner), lets say after a minute is 3v3 and almost inmediatly is 1v3, then balacing happens.

You would be surprised how many player with low MR try conclave and leave frustrated after a minute.

The point is I checked the scores after the balancing and both best players stayed together in the same team, when the game could made them enemies.

 

 

[----Legacy----]

On 7/4/2018 at 1:39 AM, mvaldess said:

3. In "Team Annihilation" the balancing is wrong. At the begining the match is 3 vs 3 by 2 to 15. Then 2 players from the losing team leave and a balancing occurs. The new team is 2 vs 2 by 2 to 15. I mean the balancing kept the two best players in the same team. Why? Where is the balance?

Team balancing has nothing to do with skill, but with the order of players joining instead. If the match becomes 4 Moon players versus 2 Sun players, the last player who joined into Moon will be moved to Sun mid match to turn it into a 3v3. Scores won't reset tho.

13 hours ago, Rawbeard said:

it's also unfair to use mods a beginner could have, but hasn't obtained yet.

Following that logic, using anything that's not available in vor's prize is unfair.

Edited April 8, 2018 by ----Legacy----

[Rawbeard]

20 hours ago, SevenLetterKWord said:

Absurd. That's literally all mods.

exactly

[Rawbeard]

15 hours ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Following that logic, using anything that's not available in vor's prize is unfair.

yes.