Octavia and Ivara Trivialize the Game

[Music4Therapy]

*see previous comment*

Edited April 15, 2018 by Music4Therapy

[DatDarkOne]

1 minute ago, Music4Therapy said:

Her and Octavia are overloaded.

And why is that a problem for no one else but you?  

[Music4Therapy]

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

And why is that a problem for no one else but you?  

It's not just me. Many popular content creators/Warframe partners share the same opinion. People running an event sponsored by DE were actively telling players not to use Octavia or Ivara when trying to beat their record.

[DatDarkOne]

3 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

It's not just me. Many popular content creators/Warframe partners share the same opinion. People running an event sponsored by DE were actively telling players not to use Octavia or Ivara when trying to beat their record.

Aaannnnnndddddd?  Then just don't use those frames for those sponsored events.  I also don't put much value if any in most content creators.  heck one of them even believes and tells everyone that Mag sux.  I can't take that seriously at all.  So why should I place value in another's opinion especially when it doesn't mesh with mine.  This includes yours because you seem to want to gimp my favorite frame out of spite.  

Edited April 15, 2018 by DatDarkOne

[Music4Therapy]

3 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Aaannnnnndddddd?  Then just don't use those frames for those sponsored events.  I also don't put much value if any in most content creators.  heck one of them even believes and tells everyone that Mag sux.  I can't take that seriously at all.  So why should I place value in another's opinion especially when it doesn't mesh with mine.  This includes yours because you seem to want to gimp my favorite frame out of spite.  

Gimp? No. Make it to where it was in line with other frames? Yes.

Why do you think so many of the players in this game that enjoyed long survivals left and the community is so casual? The introduction of old Naramon and frames like Ivara/Octavia took all the difficulty out of soloing endless missions and stripped away any and all sense of accomplishment because any noob can just get those frames and/or old Naramon, a few mods, and outperform the rest of the cast. 40-60 minute solo survival runs in T4S used to be held in higher regard lmao.

Is 99% of the game for casuals? Sure. But it'd be nice of there was one thing in this game that couldn't just be made trivial by choosing X frame.

Edited April 15, 2018 by Music4Therapy

[Music4Therapy]

It's just hilarious to me that a frame with an exalted bow and abilities such as navigator or abilities that allow her to stay in air via ziplines/out of enemy detection radiuses that I'd implement has a playerbase so adamant about being in melee range spamming covert lethality. @DatDarkOne

[DatDarkOne]

So basically your reasons are out of spite so you can feel better about your epeen.  Ok, then just say that next time.  

edit: Also, i don't use daggers or CL.  Nice assumption. 

Edited April 15, 2018 by DatDarkOne

[-QUILL_PETER-]

15 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Neither have infinitely scaling damage. Well, I guess Wukong technically does, but eventually it'll take hours to increase the combo meter, so it's not really viable.

They'll both cap eventually, whilst Covert Lethality and Mallet scale forever.

Octavia is just a pathetically designed frame imo, capable of whatever the hell she wants.

Defending an objective? Lemme just CC everything into shooting my mallet.

Need DPS? Lemme just throw my mallet and let the enemies kill themselves with their infinitely scaling damage.

Need to not get shot? Lemme just make myself permanently invisible whilst enemies shoot my mallet and kill themselves.

The only thing Octavia isn't capable of is interactive gameplay. #savageburn.

 

But you/your allies/enemies have to interact with her abilities to get the buffs you just whined about...

Did you even try to think that statement through?

[Music4Therapy]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

So basically your reasons are out of spite so you can feel better about your epeen.  Ok, then just say that next time.  

 

1 minute ago, Music4Therapy said:

It's just hilarious to me that a frame with an exalted bow and abilities such as navigator or abilities that allow her to stay in air via ziplines/out of enemy detection radiuses that I'd implement has a playerbase so adamant about being in melee range spamming covert lethality. @DatDarkOne

 

[Music4Therapy]

3 minutes ago, -QUILL_PETER- said:

But you/your allies/enemies have to interact with her abilities to get the buffs you just whined about...

Did you even try to think that statement through?

Oh yeah, spamming the Ctrl key is such great interactive gameplay. Much skill.

Seriously. Sit in a corner. Have everyone mash Ctrl. Throw out her mallet. GG. 8+hr survival/defense/interception done. No idea why people think this is "interactive" or "balanced"

Edited April 15, 2018 by Music4Therapy

[KennBone]

then when nerfs comes.. all ppl cry telling they want powerfull frames.. common of u dont like any systems just dont use , anyway a really low number of players will do those long time runs ( bcs of real life or many things )

[Chipputer]

4 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

So basically your reasons are out of spite so you can feel better about your epeen.  Ok, then just say that next time.  

edit: Also, i don't use daggers or CL.  Nice assumption. 

You're taking this too personally. Way too personally, as a matter of fact. Someone pointing out that Ivara is broken is not an attack on you just because she's your favorite frame.

It's been long established that Ivara and Octavia are the go-to for endless missions when you want to pack a lot of oomph into a single player slot. Stop being offended and look at the facts of the situation.

Stealth is broken in this game. In multiple ways-- detection is nonexistent unless you bump into an enemy meaning nothing touches you unless you use loud weapons or walk into crossfire. Enemies, on the other hand, can detect you from hundreds of meters away for the simple fact that you broke stealth for a millisecond and that one dude saw you right as you rip his throat out and somehow alerted literally everyone in the base.

Managing your detection by staying out of sight, keeping energy up, and refreshing the buff (in Octavia's case) make the threat of detection nonexistent. You add varying forms of CC and scaling damage on top of that and you have a recipe for cheese.

Change stealth mechanics or change the scaling nature of CL/Mallet. Either of these things changing would solve the issue.

[DatDarkOne]

8 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

It's just hilarious to me that a frame with an exalted bow and abilities such as navigator or abilities that allow her to stay in air via ziplines/out of enemy detection radiuses that I'd implement has a playerbase so adamant about being in melee range spamming covert lethality. @DatDarkOne

Maybe if you played either frame (Ivara or Octavia) I might take you a little bit more seriously.  Your previous posts gave hints of lack of knowledge about both frames, but looking at your profile in game confirms it.  Play them both first and then come back with suggestions.  

[DeMonkey]

8 minutes ago, -QUILL_PETER- said:

But you/your allies/enemies have to interact with her abilities to get the buffs you just whined about...

Did you even try to think that statement through?

Did you?

Invisibility requires spamming the crouch key.

Mallet requires pressing #1 and waiting.

If you consider either of those things "interactive gameplay" then honestly, you must be new to gaming.

[Music4Therapy]

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

Maybe if you played either frame (Ivara or Octavia) I might take you a little bit more seriously.  Your previous posts gave hints of lack of knowledge about both frames, but looking at your profile in game confirms it.  Play them both first and then come back with suggestions.  

I got the plat. If I got both frames today and had 8+hr solo survival vids up by the end of the week would that confirm they are both broken and take zero skill to use?

[-QUILL_PETER-]

15 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

Oh yeah, spamming the Ctrl key is such great interactive gameplay. Much skill.

Seriously. Sit in a corner. Have everyone mash Ctrl. Throw out her mallet. GG. 8+hr survival/defense/interception done. No idea why people think this is "interactive" or "balanced"

Well obviously you don't have any better ideas for how Octavia and Ivara should have been designed or you would've said so.

If you can't think of better ways for these frames to function, then why did you complain at all? Do you expect DE to respond to and act on the absence of ideas?

I'm sure there's already a Megathread or the like for people who agree with you to brainstorm better ways for these frames to be implemented. If you really want them to improve, you'd be infinitely better off sharing some suggestions there instead of just complaining into the wind here.

Edited April 15, 2018 by -QUILL_PETER-

[DatDarkOne]

1 minute ago, Music4Therapy said:

I got the plat. If I got both frames today and had 8+hr solo survival vids up by the end of the week would that confirm they are both broken and take zero skill to use?

But since you haven't even played them, you can't say for sure if they are or aren't.  Right at this very moment you are going on nothing but hearsay and nothing more.  Without any personal experience to provide context, you created a topic about frames that you have no direct experience with.  Now how are we suppose to take you seriously.  Especially when you talk about nerfing said frames.  

[Music4Therapy]

Just now, DatDarkOne said:

But since you haven't even played them, you can't say for sure if they are or aren't.  Right at this very moment you are going on nothing but hearsay and nothing more.  Without any personal experience to provide context, you created a topic about frames that you have no direct experience with.  Now how are we suppose to take you seriously.  Especially when you talk about nerfing said frames.  

I've done long runs with players using said frames. Do I understand their kits and what they bring to the table? I'd like to think so. But if I have to get both frames and put up vids of me, a dude that has never played either before, going in and breaking "World Record Survival Kuva Runs" that DE felt was an accomplishment worth highlighting and giving out Primed Chamber for last night, to prove a point... I'm petty enough to do so.

[DatDarkOne]

14 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

It's been long established that Ivara and Octavia are the go-to for endless missions when you want to pack a lot of oomph into a single player slot. Stop being offended and look at the facts of the situation.

I'm not a fan of people screaming nerf without either knowing why something works or just out of spite.  I even agreed with the one good suggestion of the two made in this topic.  

3 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

I've done long runs with players using said frames. Do I understand their kits and what they bring to the table? I'd like to think so. But if I have to get both frames and put up vids of me, a dude that has never played either before, going in and breaking "World Record Survival Kuva Runs" that DE felt was an accomplishment worth highlighting and giving out Primed Chamber for last night, to prove a point... I'm petty enough to do so.

I rest my case. 

[Music4Therapy]

3 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I'm not a fan of people screaming nerf without either knowing why something works or just out of spite.  I even agreed with the one good suggestion of the two made in this topic.  

I rest my case. 

What case? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand a Warframe kit. They have 4 abilities. It doesn't take much brainpower to read something and say "huh, this can be applied in X way in Y scenario"

There are plenty of things more complicated than Warframe characters.

Edited April 15, 2018 by Music4Therapy

[DatDarkOne]

It meant I'm done with the argument.  I have said all that I needed to say.  There is no further point in continuing that specific discussion.  

[(PSN)Crixus044]

sure they can solo survival, but that's about it. They can't do that in defense, interception, excavation, or anything else. Solo survival is their shtick. That's what they do best, but put them anywhere else and that whole trivialize thing starts to fall off. I think octavia needs hella work. She's a DE employee favor more than a frame that's meant to be balanced. I mean, she got a Deluxe skin less than a year after coming out when we have 5 year old frames with no deluxe skin, and has almost never been touched even though she's known to be OP. Ivara is a different story though. I think what you're refering to is CL Dagger Ivara, which is a very specific setup that only works solo or with other ivaras and is quite boring to do. This too only works with endless survivals, while in other missions, it's quite less useful.

When it comes down to it, I always say that any frame can reach level cap with the right combo. Some combos require solo play, others require synergy, but all in all, they all are pretty much on equal footing. Octavia and IVara is simpler thinking wise and playing wise, so for simpler minded people, it's better for them, but that doesn't mean that those 2 frames trivialize content.

Also, survival is not the most popular mission in game. That title goes to defense and extermination. Survival is just the most popular for YT and twitch endurance runners, which I know you've been basing your arguments on. That's because it is the quickest for scaling missions. A defense mission to level cap would take almost 3 days to complete, while a survival takes 14 hours. I think you just need more hands-on experience with this and stop worrying about the e-peen of those that say they did 14 hour survivals, yet you see the frames they use are octavia or ivara. Trust me, all we say to those people is "Nice run." and that's it.

As said, grab these frames, then attempt a solo endless run yourself. If you get too bored or fail all together, then make your decision, but making an opinion on someone else's fact is a little premature.

[Music4Therapy]

26 minutes ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

sure they can solo survival, but that's about it. They can't do that in defense, interception, excavation, or anything else. Solo survival is their shtick. That's what they do best, but put them anywhere else and that whole trivialize thing starts to fall off. I think octavia needs hella work. She's a DE employee favor more than a frame that's meant to be balanced. I mean, she got a Deluxe skin less than a year after coming out when we have 5 year old frames with no deluxe skin, and has almost never been touched even though she's known to be OP. Ivara is a different story though. I think what you're refering to is CL Dagger Ivara, which is a very specific setup that only works solo or with other ivaras and is quite boring to do. This too only works with endless survivals, while in other missions, it's quite less useful.

When it comes down to it, I always say that any frame can reach level cap with the right combo. Some combos require solo play, others require synergy, but all in all, they all are pretty much on equal footing. Octavia and IVara is simpler thinking wise and playing wise, so for simpler minded people, it's better for them, but that doesn't mean that those 2 frames trivialize content.

Also, survival is not the most popular mission in game. That title goes to defense and extermination. Survival is just the most popular for YT and twitch endurance runners, which I know you've been basing your arguments on. That's because it is the quickest for scaling missions. A defense mission to level cap would take almost 3 days to complete, while a survival takes 14 hours. I think you just need more hands-on experience with this and stop worrying about the e-peen of those that say they did 14 hour survivals, yet you see the frames they use are octavia or ivara. Trust me, all we say to those people is "Nice run." and that's it.

As said, grab these frames, then attempt a solo endless run yourself. If you get too bored or fail all together, then make your decision, but making an opinion on someone else's fact is a little premature.

While you make valid points, you missed the 565 Wave solo defense I posted. Ivara can stealth Objectives and Octavia can direct the attention of enemies to her Mallet. While admittedly Octavia isn't quite as ridiculous in defense, her best performances are ~100 waves, it's a tad ridiculous that she is able to beat/compete with frames in which that is their niche.

I'm looking at 50+ wave solo interception vids as well lol

 

Edited April 15, 2018 by Music4Therapy

[Checht]

Nerf them

[DatDarkOne]

11 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

Ivara can stealth Objectives

No she can't.  Trust me on this one.  Only objective she can effectively stealth is the Sortie Defense Target.  Cloak arrow doesn't really work on objects.  It might have when she first came out, but not now.

Even in that Defense mission, the issue you have is the combo of Sleep Arrow + Covert Lethality dagger.  Once enemies get to certain levels, there are very few things that can kill enemies fast enough to either protect the target or get enough life support. 

Edited April 15, 2018 by DatDarkOne