Octavia and Ivara Trivialize the Game

[Music4Therapy]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

No she can't.  Trust me on this one.  Only objective she can effectively stealth is the Sortie Defense Target.  Cloak arrow doesn't really work on objects.  It might have when she first came out.  

Even in that Defense mission, the issue you have is the combo of Sleep Arrow + Covert Lethality dagger.  Once enemies get to certain levels, there are very few things that can kill enemies fast enough to either protect the target or get enough life support. 

You say the issue is Sleep Arrow+CL, and that is where our opinions differ. I see the issue here being stealth. The only frames I see abusing CL in a solo setting are stealth frames. Sure, Inaros and Equinox have great synergies with CL, but they don't break the game the way Ivara and Octavia do.

I'm just hoping to see a dev respond and say something, be it "we think they are fine the way they are" or "we are taking another look at stealth" or "we'll handle this when their prime variants are released" but that is highly unlikely.

[DatDarkOne]

16 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

I'm just hoping to see a dev respond and say something, be it "we think they are fine the way they are" or "we are taking another look at stealth" or "we'll handle this when their prime variants are released" but that is highly unlikely.

The Devs have already stated that they don't balance past Sortie 3 (enemy lvls 80-100) and that endless missions are basically intended for those who want to test themselves.  This was in one of the recent Devstreams.  I think about two or three Devstreams ago before they added Kuva Survival with Kuva syphons.  

Short of them making missions that start at lvls higher than sortie 3, I highly doubt they will care much about balance past level 100.  

Nothing cheeses spy missions like Infiltrate Ivara does, but I don't see you griping about that.  There are frames that excel at different things very well and for different reasons.  

For Example: Do you know why Ivara can solo Interception missions when a frame like Loki can't?  Both are Stealth frame and can go invis, but only one of those two can do it for any length of time solo.  Heck I don't think Octavia can do this one at all solo.  I mentioned this because of the video you posted.  

Edited April 15, 2018 by DatDarkOne

[EighthGear]

...I really think you're playing the wrong game if you're looking for a sense of pride and accomplishment for your efforts in this game. The entire game is a glorified power fantasy centered around min-maxing your builds to become OP as hell. That's what makes it so accessible and fun to play for many. And it's been like this for the longest time. This stealth issue is no exception... Even if this "issue" would get addressed - which it doesnt need to since it isnt an issue - people would move on and look for the next setup to cheese the game with. It's inevitable. Stop trying to look for some kind of depth or challenge in this game, because there simply is none and I have no qualms admitting that. Warframe is not that kind of game.

Like why do you even care about those people's 14h endurance runs? Good for them for all I care that they can get that far. Just move on.

[Music4Therapy]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

The Devs have already stated that they don't balance past Sortie 3 (enemy lvls 80-100) and that endless missions are basically intended for those who want to test themselves.  This was in one of the recent Devstreams.  I think about two or three Devstreams ago before they added Kuva Survival with Kuva syphons.  

Short of them making missions that start at lvls higher than sortie 3, I highly doubt they will care much about balance past level 100.  

Nothing cheeses spy missions like Infiltrate Ivara does, but I don't see you griping about that.  There are frames that excel at different things very well and for different reasons.  

For Example: Do you know why Ivara can solo Interception missions when a frame like Loki can't.  Both are Stealth frame and can go invis, but only one of those two can do it for any length of time solo.  Heck I don't think Octavia can do this one at all solo.  

I'd assume the answer is Hard CC, which both Loki and Octavia lack and what makes frames such as Limbo great at interception. 

And I do have a problem with how all stealth frames trivialize spy missions, I just worded my argument extraordinarily poorly. That's partly why I'm in favor of enemies having a cone-shaped detection radius in front of them. I don't like how enemies interact with stealth in this game and I avoided Naramon when it was released up til it was changed because of that (I used Zenurik for the longest time, got Naramon because someone told me "how can you know something is OP if you never tried it", then used it in a 7hr survival with Nekros in Mot, left because I was bored)

I also used to use the old Loki+Redeemer combo for a bit, but that got old real quick. Ash was my favorite frame when I first started playing, his prime variant my first prime ever. Now though, the stealth just feels like a cheatcode in solo gameplay.

Adding detection radiuses to enemies wouldn't completely fix the issue, but it would help promote skilled gameplay and give players something to play around.

Right now, stealth feels like a cheat code. It's been that way for years. Remember #LokiMasterRace?

[schilds]

Agree that this is much ado about nothing, but:

Quote

Nothing cheeses spy missions like Infiltrate Ivara does, but I don't see you griping about that. 

Every frame can get through spy missions reasonably fast. There are few vaults where infiltrate (or even frame stealth) make any difference, especially now that we have operator void mode + dash.

 

Quote

For Example: Do you know why Ivara can solo Interception missions when a frame like Loki can't?

Every frame can solo interception missions.

Edited April 15, 2018 by schilds

[DatDarkOne]

1 minute ago, Music4Therapy said:

I'd assume the answer is Hard CC

It's because of Noise Arrow. The skill that hardly none of the YTers ever comment on or use.  

2 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

Remember #LokiMasterRace?

I never liked Loki or any of his MustardRace fans.  Mostly just for using that stupid term. Just being honest.   

 

3 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

Adding detection radiuses to enemies wouldn't completely fix the issue, but it would help promote skilled gameplay and give players something to play around.

If you really want skilled gameplay then just use Daikyu for everything and get nothing but headshots.  Skillful gameplay is up to the player and not exactly dependent on what DE buffs or nerfs.  If you want even more skillful gameplay, then just solo as Banshee.  

[Music4Therapy]

9 minutes ago, EighthGear said:

...I really think you're playing the wrong game if you're looking for a sense of pride and accomplishment for your efforts in this game. The entire game is a glorified power fantasy centered around min-maxing your builds to become OP as hell. That's what makes it so accessible and fun to play for many. And it's been like this for the longest time. This stealth issue is no exception... Even if this "issue" would get addressed - which it doesnt need to since it isnt an issue - people would move on and look for the next setup to cheese the game with. It's inevitable. Stop trying to look for some kind of depth or challenge in this game, because there simply is none and I have no qualms admitting that. Warframe is not that kind of game.

Like why do you even care about those people's 14h endurance runs? Good for them for all I care that they can get that far. Just move on.

You weren't around before focus schools I'm guessing. This game just isn't rewarding anymore, they added too much to the game that trivialize enemies that once posed a challenge. The sorties were once regarded as endgame content and "required min-maxed setups" to complete.

Now, we players just 1 shot everything and the new players that came around after Focus Schools were implemented try and tell the vets that "the game is for casuals and is meant to be ezpz" because that's all you guys know. CheeseFrame, where team comp no longer matters.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

53 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

While you make valid points, you missed the 565 Wave solo defense I posted. Ivara can stealth Objectives and Octavia can direct the attention of enemies to her Mallet. While admittedly Octavia isn't quite as ridiculous in defense, her best performances are ~100 waves, it's a tad ridiculous that she is able to beat/compete with frames in which that is their niche.

I'm looking at 50+ wave solo interception vids as well lol

 

she can't nerf cryopods. That's a bug that sometimes happened on the Galleon (hydron) tileset. It doesn't happen everywhere. It is an exploit like Loki swtich teleporting Cryopods way back in 2014.

About solo interception, that was a highly skilled run that I doubt you can replicate. I did 80 waves back when T4 interception scaled super hard and I could get level cap enemies really quickly. If you can replicate that run, which you don't even have the frame to do it with yet, then sur, go ahead, but there's more happening then what you see. Map awareness, using navigator as remote radar, ripline speed, invis, and dagger kills.

Edited April 15, 2018 by (PS4)Crixus044

[DatDarkOne]

3 minutes ago, schilds said:

Agree that this is much ado about nothing, but:

Every frame can get through spy missions reasonably fast. There are few vaults where infiltrate (or even frame stealth) make any difference, especially now that we have operator void mode + dash.

 

Every frame can solo interception missions.

You missed the message in those statements that was intended for the OP with reason.  

[Music4Therapy]

2 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

It's because of Noise Arrow. The skill that hardly none of the YTers ever comment on or use.  

Yeah, like I said, Hard CC. Loki doesn't have Hard CC and neither does Octavia. Ivara is the only stealth frame capable of using Hard CC. Mallet is soft CC, and so is Disarm... including its augment.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

10 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

Yeah, like I said, Hard CC. Loki doesn't have Hard CC and neither does Octavia. Ivara is the only stealth frame capable of using Hard CC. Mallet is soft CC, and so is Disarm... including its augment.

Noise arrow is not hard CC. People use these terms but nobody really knows what they mea. Hard CC is something that completely negates the danger of enemies, while soft CC mitigates it. The only frame here with hard CC is ivara with Sleep Arrow, and even then that's a small area hard CC.

Actually, Loki can ABSOLUTELY solo interception. Were you around for Phoenix Intercept? Loki soloed that rather easily and was notorious for that. In fact, that's basically where the Loki Master Race stigma really took off from. I soloed it with Rhino too, but I'm rhino god so.....

Edited April 15, 2018 by (PS4)Crixus044

[DatDarkOne]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

Actually, Loki can ABSOLUTELY solo interception. Were you around for Phoenix Intercept? Loki soloed that rather easily and was notorious for that. In fact, that's basically where the Loki Master Race stigma really took off from. I soloed it with Rhino too, but I'm rhino god so.....

I wasn't around during that time.  Thanks for the update.  Is it still possible to do that now?  I tried it with Nyx awhile back and it didn't work as well as I thought it would.  

edit: Nevermind.  I had completely forgotten about Decoy and Rad Disarm.  LOL 

Edited April 15, 2018 by DatDarkOne

[Music4Therapy]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

Noise arrow is not hard CC. People use these terms but nobody really knows what they mea. Hard CC is something that completely negates the danger of enemies, while soft CC mitigates it. The only frame here with hard CC is ivara with Sleep Arrow, and even then that's a small area hard CC.

Actually, Loki can ABSOLUTELY solo interception. Were you around for Phoenix Intercept? Loki soloed that rather easily and was notorious for that. In fact, that's basically where the Loki Master Race stigma really took off from. I soloed it with Rhino too, but I'm rhino god so.....

Woah what I said was misinterpreted and that's likely due to bad wording on my part.

Soft CC in an MMO setting would be like a slow, snare, etc... whereas Hard CC would be a stun for exame. I was just meaning to point out Ivara was the only stealth frame that had Hard CC, wasn't meaning the noise arrow but I did word that poorly.

I also didn't mean to imply Loki wasn't capable of soloing those as well. I remember when Loki Master Race started and even alluded to it earlier. Even used that little Loki+Redeemer combo for a bit and still have my Arcane Swindle Helmet from that time. I also remember playing Rhino at that time as well and when everyone called him the "noob frame" and the community at large didn't realize what he was capable to bringing to the table. That Vanguard Helmet was awesome to get. He is my most played frame to this day despite not playing him much recently (lots of Oberon, Equinox, and Nekros)

Edited April 16, 2018 by Music4Therapy

[(PSN)Crixus044]

3 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

I wasn't around during that time.  Thanks for the update.  Is it still possible to do that now?  I tried it with Nyx awhile back and it didn't work as well as I thought it would.  

edit: Nevermind.  I had completely forgotten about Decoy and Rad Disarm.  LOL 

lol yep, he's largely self-sufficient for solo interception, I'd go as far as to say he can be better than ivara for interception, but you'd have to be a REALLY good loki, which most loki players today aren't. If you know how to utilize the entirety of any frame's arsenal, you can do some pretty radical things, like you who solos everything with ivara, or me that solos everything with rhino.

37 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

Woah what I said was misinterpreted and that's likely due to bad wording on my part.

Soft CC in an MMO setting would be like a slow, snare, etc... whereas Hard CC would be a stun for exame. I was just meaning to point out Ivara was the only stealth frame that had Hard CC, wasn't meaning the noise arrow but I did word that poorly.

I also didn't mean to imply Loki wasn't capable of soloing those as well. I remember when Loki Master Race started and even alluded to it earlier. Even used that little Loki+Redeemer combo for a bit and still have my Arcane Swindle Helmet from that time. I also remember playing Rhino at that time as well and when everyone called him the "noob frame" and the community at large didn't realize what he was capable to bringing to the table. That Vanguard Helmet was awesome to get. He is my most played frame to this day despite not playing him much recently (lots of Oberon, Equinox, and Nekros)

Thank you for clearing that up. I can see your point now. And yes, that is correct, but the easier way to think of it is that hard cc negates enemy danger while soft CC mitigates/reduces enemy danger. Someone like vauban, rhino, or nekros would be hard CC while somone like nova, nyx, or frost would be soft CC.

To go over the original point, like I've been saying for years and finally it's showing up that I was right, we need higher level content, and now, people are starting to ask for it. Only then can we get a general consensus on what needs to be fixed. Going off of another person's experience doesn't make it your own. I know this game like the back of my hand. I can math out absolutely anything for you and give you the keys to ultimate power, but I dare not make an assumption on the likes of Loki because I am not first hand familiar enough with the guy to say anything. I played a little with him, I've seen others go far with him, and I've mathed out every detail of his being, but I never took him myself into a 3+ hour long survival, therefore I will not pass judgement on him. Now when it comes to rhino or literally every other frame, then I'm your guy, but I leave loki to my friend Jorgito, who's a loki master.

[DatDarkOne]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

lol yep, he's largely self-sufficient for solo interception, I'd go as far as to say he can be better than ivara for interception, but you'd have to be a REALLY good loki, which most loki players today aren't. If you know how to utilize the entirety of any frame's arsenal, you can do some pretty radical things, like you who solos everything with ivara, or me that solos everything with rhino.

I've done Interception solo with Ivara a lot in the past year.  I can honestly say that it boring as hell.  You don't do anything but wait until the message is done.  No killing enemies.  Just Noise Arrow a few times at the beginning while Invis to group the enemies away from the cap points.  Then wait.  Repeat for each message wave.

  It was almost as boring as playing Octavia.  Still faster and better than waiting on a random pug in Sorties.   

Edit: I can't see why anyone would want to do hours of that.  

Edited April 16, 2018 by DatDarkOne

[Jicematoro]

Ok, allow me to hit you with a completely different stick. For the sake of argument we'll agree that Octavia and Ivara make content trivial, so, my question for you is...

Why is that a problem, and why should that be looked-at/changed?

Because other frames and/or guns cannot keep up? That's not the fault of either Octavia or Ivara, and you should probably be arguing for buffing everyone else instead, don't you think?

Because it removes the Challenge? That's the problem of the player, not yours. If the player wants to make his missions a walk in the park that's only on them, specially if they go Solo, like Ivara and Octavia tend and are known to do.

Because it takes away value of everyone else's accomplishments? That's like, your opinion man, you yourself have said Octavia and Ivara are cheeseframes, so, then wouldn't their accomplishments be the ones with little to no Value?

Heck, wouldn't you agree that not running the OP frame and still getting good numbers would give more value to the Accomplishment at hand?

Games have had easy modes forever, and the people who've been respected for obtaining milestones on them are the people who either do something impressive (Like Speedrunning entire games in an hour or lower) or the people who's Skill is so impressive they make games look easy even in the highest dificulty settings (Edit: without cheesing, because I just know you're gonna try to use this one against me).

Edited April 16, 2018 by Jicematoro

[RealPandemonium]

1 hour ago, Jicematoro said:

snip

There needs to be a baseline level of interactivity to the game in order for its actual gameplay to remain fun.  If that isn't there, Warframe becomes a mobile game where you just fill XP bars and complete your pokedex for the sake of it.  I think it is well within our right to tell people who only care about completion % to keep their opinions out of gameplay discussions, because their objective is to remove gameplay as much as possible.  This is a fast-paced action game.  It is not a tower defense game, or a a clicker game, or Farmville.  

Edited April 16, 2018 by RealPandemonium

[Checht]

2 hours ago, Jicematoro said:

Because it removes the Challenge? That's the problem of the player, not yours. If the player wants to make his missions a walk in the park that's only on them, specially if they go Solo, like Ivara and Octavia tend and are known to do.

It has to do with the principle of a good game design. Let me give you this example then. Suppose that DE releases a mod that gives infinite health for any frame. Is this acceptable then? I could use the same argument that those who want a challenge can just unequip this mod, let those who enjoy being immortal and unengaging gameplay have this mod.

[Jicematoro]

1 hour ago, RealPandemonium said:

There needs to be a baseline level of interactivity to the game in order for its actual gameplay to remain fun.  If that isn't there, Warframe becomes a mobile game where you just fill XP bars and complete your pokedex for the sake of it.  I think it is well within our right to tell people who only care about completion % to keep their opinions out of gameplay discussions, because their objective is to remove gameplay as much as possible.  This is a fast-paced action game.  It is not a tower defense game, or a a clicker game, or Farmville.  

You could just not pick Octavia and/or Ivara if they're that "Non-Interactive" or "Boring" and go for something else that is "Fun", we have over 30, and counting, Warframes and a lot of weapons, the existance of both Frames does not affect your ability to play this Fast-paced action game as such, and no one is balancing the game around them.

If the only argument you have is "I don't find this fun" or "You are not supposed to play the game this way", then I hereby welcome you to 2018, people find different stuff fun and like to play the game in their own way, some like to challenge themselves, some like to relax and "trivialize" their experience.

And on that note.

Quote

I think it is well within our right to tell people who only care about completion % to keep their opinions out of gameplay discussions, because their objective is to remove gameplay as much as possible.

You are not helping anyone by silencing the voices of a sizable portion of the audience, a portion that also pays for Platinum (and probably more so, since the use of platinum can serve as a way to "remove gameplay") and it's just as passionate with the game as you may or may not be.

TL;DR: No one is taking away the "Fast-Pace" out of Warframe, and no one is forcing you to take the "Not-Fun" route, chill out.

Edit:

1 minute ago, Checht said:

It has to do with the principle of a good game design. Let me give you this example then. Suppose that DE releases a mod that gives infinite health for any frame. Is this acceptable then? I could use the same argument that those who want a challenge can just unequip this mod, let those who enjoy being immortal and unengaging gameplay have this mod.

And I'd agree with that Argument, so long as the game doesn't forcibly insert the Mod in my Warframe's Slots or builds itself around the usage of the Infinite Health Mod.

Since you took the liberty of playing the Logical Extreme, allow me to do the same.

What if the Infinite Health Mod also locked you in Solo-Mode until it is removed? What if it removes your ability to use any sort of weapon and/or Warframe Ability? What if it locks you to walking very damn slowly and removes your ability to Jump and/or Bullet Jump while equipped?

What if the Mod that makes you invincible also makes the game boring?

What if playing in a cheesy way makes the game boring?

Don't you think people would take it off eventually?

You are comparing simple/easy/exploitable gameplay with an absolute removal of risk, both are Diferent things and it serves no one to compare them, specially since the latter is never going to take place.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Jicematoro

[DatDarkOne]

1 hour ago, RealPandemonium said:

  I think it is well within our right to tell people who only care about completion % to keep their opinions out of gameplay discussions, because their objective is to remove gameplay as much as possible.  This is a fast-paced action game.  It is not a tower defense game, or a a clicker game, or Farmville.  

I'm not exactly sure who you're directing this towards.  Could you clarify this for me please?

Edited April 16, 2018 by DatDarkOne

[Checht]

21 minutes ago, Jicematoro said:

And I'd agree with that Argument, so long as the game doesn't forcibly insert the Mod in my Warframe's Slots or builds itself around the usage of the Infinite Health Mod.

Since you took the liberty of playing the Logical Extreme, allow me to do the same.

What if the Infinite Health Mod also locked you in Solo-Mode until it is removed? What if it removes your ability to use any sort of weapon and/or Warframe Ability? What if it locks you to walking very damn slowly and removes your ability to Jump and/or Bullet Jump while equipped?

What if the Mod that makes you invincible also makes the game boring?

What if playing in a cheesy way makes the game boring?

Don't you think people would take it off eventually?

You are comparing simple/easy/exploitable gameplay with an absolute removal of risk, both are Diferent things and it serves no one to compare them, specially since the latter is never going to take place.

I see, then we could never find a common ground to begin with. There are reasons why games are not made with infinite health, and let players determine how much they want to nerf themselves. If your viewpoint is that it is okay even if DE decides to release infinite health mod, I can only disagree with your opinion.

Difficulty in a game lies in a spectrum, with complete zero chance of failure lying at the far end of easiness. Introducing an infinite health mod is at this far end. I used this example to illustrate our sentiments better, as different players may be drawing different lines on how easy should DE allow the game to be. However, it seems that you are fine with it being at the extreme end, so I guess we can only agree to disagree.

To me, these easily exploitable abilities and mechanics are pretty damn close to the zero failure chance line, and my feedback to DE is that it'd be a positive change if they were to be addressed.

[Jicematoro]

5 minutes ago, Checht said:

I see, then we could never find a common ground to begin with. There are reasons why games are not made with infinite health, and let players determine how much they want to nerf themselves. If your viewpoint is that it is okay even if DE decides to release infinite health mod, I can only disagree with your opinion.

Difficulty in a game lies in a spectrum, with complete zero chance of failure lying at the far end of easiness. Introducing an infinite health mod is at this far end. I used this example to illustrate our sentiments better, as different players may be drawing different lines on how easy should DE allow the game to be. However, it seems that you are fine with it being at the extreme end, so I guess we can only agree to disagree.

To me, these easily exploitable abilities and mechanics are pretty damn close to the zero failure chance line, and my feedback to DE is that it'd be a positive change if they were to be addressed.

And agree to disagree we will.

However I would like to clarify that:

a) I wouldn't push for the creation of such an extreme (Infinite Health Mod), but I'd most certainly argue against the removal of the option. And...

b) So long as the existance of these options isn't a direct Detriment to the playstyle of everyone else (If in a team of 4, the ability/mechanic/mod didn't directly mess with the ability to win of the rest of the team), you won't see me complain about them. I'm very mixed on Limbo, he's generally a non-issue, unless the Limbo player can't read or is purposefully being an Ass.

[RealPandemonium]

3 hours ago, Jicematoro said:

snip

It's a slippery slope.  The more non-gameplay becomes the norm, the less the game makes sense over time.  Warframe used to be sorta-kinda balanced at one time, but now we have entire mission types based around individual frame abilities (Excavation, Tricap) on one end of the spectrum and "X frame is in the game so it's not losable" (mass CCs, mostly) on the other.

Speculating that "anti-gameplay people" pay more of Warframe's bills is not really a valid point.  We don't have the data for this and I could speculate myself that most income comes from cosmetics, which are more likely to be bought by longtime players rather than the dracoborn who race to 25 and then quit for months or years before coming back if at all.  

3 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

I'm not exactly sure who you're directing this towards.  Could you clarify this for me please?

It's not a personal attack.  It's a general statement pointing out that those arguing for gameplay removal are arguing for nullifying the basis of the game itself.  

  

It's important to note where the "fun" is coming from.  Is it from the act of playing the game, or is it from filling the XP bars and getting a shiny new mastery rank?  I guess some people enjoy their power fantasy too, but IDK how long that really lasts.  We all had the honeymoon phase of getting corrupted mods and spamming 4 to win but, after that, what's really left?  

The more I try to rationalize winning at the loadout screen, the more it legitimizes the normalcy of gameplay removal, so this post is the last for me.  We can all take solace that DE doesn't take this forum seriously anyway.  

Edited April 16, 2018 by RealPandemonium

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

17 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

This whole post is gold.

 

Have you done a run like that yourself?  Because I have. Many times. Its the niche I fall into in Warframe. Many players did so in the tower days as well. You don't need to be geared to the teeth. People have been doing these kinds of runs for years, before riven mods or acolyte mods even existed. You know what removes any and all sense of accomplishment from the game? When a bunch of people that clearly have zero experience doing these longer runs think some dude going 8+hrs solo in a mission is normal.

I remember when someone going 60 minutes in a survival or that many waves in Defense/Interception/etc... was considered to be "difficult" lol.

Yet they wonder why the average person that plays Warframe only sticks around for 70hrs. There's no sense of accomplishment you get from this game because it's broken with ease. Even players hosting an event sponsored by DE have to handicap themselves by not choosing Ivara or Octavia in there missions are tell people several times throughout the stream "if you guys go to break the record don't do it by cheesing it with Ivara or Octavia"

Then making fun of the current survival record of an Ivara that solo'd for 14 hours.

There is zero sense of accomplishment to be had in this game and that should be seen as an issue by the dev team.

 

Either one of 2 things:

1) I'd make all stealth units have the same movement restrictions as Ivara and remove Ivara's ability to steal Life Support. Loki and Ash may have to actually use their teleports to get around if this were the case and Ivara wouldn't be able to cheese endless missions aside from defense anymore. Octavia would receive a rework to her kit so that she no longer provided invis but gained something else in return. 

2) Still take stealth from Octavia and give her something else in return (she plays loud music, wtf is she even a stealth frame), but give all enemies "detection radiuses"... FE being within 5m of a Lancer would result in you dropping stealth and your stealth being placed on a short CD similar to Radial Blind from Excal.

Similar to Bobtm's suggestion above.

And I don't think Frost is anywhere close to OP, the only time I felt that way about Frost was when his bubble used to be duration based. Volt's is duration based but has the weakness of not providing 360 degrees of cover and over the top protection. I did think release Gara was an issue, and that they nerfed her too hard. Her walls should have an invincibility period like Frost's globe.

70 hours is still quite a commitment to any game.  And that could be for various reasons. even if your supposed theory is one of them it wouldn't be the only relevant reason.

And regardless of all of that DE isn't dealing with any population problems.  If people are playing for a challenge they're playing the wrong game.  It's not nor was ever designed to be a difficult game.

[Sqecmi]

any reason why i should stay at survival for 14 hours?

you get some awesome weapon reward? or maybe unique skin?