EOS Change: Limit What Frames We Can Use Each Week

[GinKenshin]

Hey Tenno, 

 

I had an idea for elite onslaught, How about that you can only use X number of frames each week. like having a pool of X number of frames to choose from and you can only use these frames during the week, the frames will be RNG chosen and it'll change each week (the number of frames is to be determined ofc)

for example: this week you can only use ivara, ember, loki, frost, rhino. next week you can only use equinox, mesa, harrow, gara, limbo.....and so on. that way the 'vets' will have the challenge of diversifying what frame to use and come up with a strategy and synergy with the available frames during the week 

you can even go as far as limiting what weapons we can use. something like melee and bow only, rifle and dual pistols only....etc (preferably 2 categories). you can also say that each squad must not have repeating frames, meaning no 2 banshees in the same squad for example

this way you'll give us:

-challenge like I said by diversity and finding synergy

-fight cheese 'tactics', at least for the most part depending on which frames are available 

 

one of the cons of this, you'll say, is that since this has a leaderboards aspect to it, you'll get lucky and have the option of the 'OP' frames, thus getting a high score because of the frames and not because of your skill. I suggest just adding which frames were available when the high scoring player(s) got their high score, so everyone will see what frames they used to get their high score, whether it's 'legit' or not (iirc leaderboards are reset each week anyway?)

 

since this is elite, I don't think 'what if I don't have any of these frames, how can I play??' is a good con since this is elite, supposedly meant for the vets. ofc this'll depend on how many frames per pool (the more frames there is to choose frame the more chances you'll have the frame). if it's still a problem, having a starter frame in each pool is a good solution imo 

 

I really think this is a decent idea, if you have any suggestions or cons to discuss please present them 

 

Thank you for reading ^^ 

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by GinKenshin

[(XBOX)alf swarm]

Really cool idea, I hate that such a strong cheese meta seems to be already developing.

[tucker_d_dawg]

Interesting idea - of course the s2w meta would be more meta.

I think the slaughter them as fast as possible while efficiency drops to zero mechanic needs some looking at however.  That alone takes gun play out, encourages the saryn/equinox/maiming solution as the only viable solution.  I don't have a good answer as to what I would have liked to see - maybe some kind of king of the hill vs the enemies who scale much faster than normal.. so you could somewhat cc them, or use guns and volt shields and the like.  I guess to make that viable you'dhave to make them immune to cc...

[GinKenshin]

1 minute ago, tucker_d_dawg said:

Interesting idea - of course the s2w meta would be more meta.

I think the slaughter them as fast as possible while efficiency drops to zero mechanic needs some looking at however.  That alone takes gun play out, encourages the saryn/equinox/maiming solution as the only viable solution.  I don't have a good answer as to what I would have liked to see - maybe some kind of king of the hill vs the enemies who scale much faster than normal.. so you could somewhat cc them, or use guns and volt shields and the like.  I guess to make that viable you'dhave to make them immune to cc...

ofc other problems needs to be fixed and looked it, but this idea is more when the mode is in it's stable stages and waiting for changes in it's mechanics 

 

 

[krc473]

23 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

I had an idea for elite onslaught, How about that you can only use X number of frames each week. like having a pool of X number of frames to choose from and you can only use these frames during the week, the frames will be RNG chosen and it'll change each week (the number of frames is to be determined ofc)

For me, this is a terrible idea. If a game mode forces me to use a particular frame I am simply not partaking. I would not object to weapon restrictions though - say, this week is melee week, next is bows etc. I will not take a meta frame to elite mode anyway, I want to take the frames I enjoy.

 

Perhaps if DE say “Using x frame(s) will get a bonus of y” I might agree. But not restricting the frames. From my perspective, if you will not enjoy it, there is no point. Above all else, this is a game and it should be enjoyable. Being forced to use frames you hate is not enjoyable.

Edited April 26, 2018 by krc473

[ShinTechG]

I disagree with this because what if players don't have certain frames, like  the ones you mentioned. They are then forced to not play the mode at all or grind for a frame they maybe don't even want to play. (Veteran or not)

Sorties limit weapon types but they were careful about it. They didn't say for example, this sortie you can only use the Braton. That is too limited and down right forceful. Instead, they limited it to modifiers like rifle only. At least then you still have a wide range of weapons to choose from. 

As far as fighting cheese tactics, Adding cooldowns to ultimate and other abilities was a good step in the right direction. The reason players still cheese now is only because the enemies are just a little too straight forward. No special mechanic. 

 

So yea in short, your idea is not bad it's just that limitation is a little too narrow and will not solve the main issues currently

Edited April 26, 2018 by ShinTechG

[GinKenshin]

8 minutes ago, krc473 said:

For me, this is a terrible idea. If a game mode forces me to use a particular frame I am simply not partaking. I would not object to weapon restrictions though - say, this week is melee week, next is bows etc. I will not take a meta frame to elite mode anyway, I want to take the frames I enjoy.

 

Perhaps if DE say “Using x frame(s) will get a bonus of y” I might agree. But not restricting the frames. From my perspective, if you will not enjoy it, there is no point. Above all else, this is a game and it should be enjoyable. Being forced to use frames you hate is not enjoyable.

like I said, it'll depend on how many frames are available during the week, I didn't wanna give an exact number but let's say it's 10 for example. even if you don't have one frame you enjoy, there little chance all of these frames will be ones you hate. maybe if you play one of them you'll find that you like them actually...so it'll open possibilities to try new things rather than the usual ones 

other options is to just wait for the next rotation. it's not forced but more like opportunity to try something new, and providing fair playground for the leaderboard people since all of them would be using the same frames to some extent 

 

there's always the normal mode, or just create another mode with the same rewards as elite but with these unique conditions 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by GinKenshin

[infinitiumolo]

80% of the Warframes can't even compete in this game mode. Just like eidolon hunts, using an ineffective frame is completey pointless, Mag cant do anything to an Eidolon just like Loki cant do anything in onslaught.

 

Not everyone has every warframe, you would be heavily restricting <mr16 players. Doing a batch of warframes might leave a player with zero warframes to choose, and would only favor high mr24-25 players who have everything

 

[(XBOX)alf swarm]

3 minutes ago, ShinTechG said:

I disagree with this because what if players don't have certain frames, like  the ones you mentioned. They are then forced to not play the mode at all or grind for a frame they maybe don't even want to play. (Veteran or not)

All the vets I know have every frame. Non-veterans shouldn't even be considered in balancing this game mode, it's supposed to be end game right?

[krc473]

Just now, GinKenshin said:

so it'll open possibilities to try new things rather than the usual ones 

That is true. But I am not sure EOS is the correct place for people to try decide if they like a frame. If you’ve barely used a frame, it may just be too underpowered for the game. That puts your whole team at a disadvantage. And what about when you run with three people that do not know how to use their frames? 

 

If they put a high MR restriction it might not be so bad, but if people want to fight level 80 enemies with half modded frames they have barely tried, the whole squad is going to hate it. The content may be aimed at vets, but it is not restricted to them. 

 

Yes, I see where you are coming from. But I just cannot see what you imagine happening actually occurring.

[ShinTechG]

12 minutes ago, (XB1)alf swarm said:

All the vets I know have every frame. Non-veterans shouldn't even be considered in balancing this game mode, it's supposed to be end game right?

And that is exactly the point here, All the vets you know is one thing, versus every other vet is another. Being a veteran doesn't mean you have every frame and endgame shouldn't be forcing you to play certain frames. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by ShinTechG

[GinKenshin]

16 minutes ago, ShinTechG said:

I disagree with this because what if players don't have certain frames, like  the ones you mentioned. They are then forced to not play the mode at all or grind for a frame they maybe don't even want to play. (Veteran or not)

Sorties limit weapon types but they were careful about it. They didn't say for example, this sortie you can only use the Braton. That is too limited and down right forceful. Instead, they limited it to modifiers like rifle only. At least then you still have a wide range of weapons to choose from. 

As far as fighting cheese tactics, Adding cooldowns to ultimate and other abilities was a good step in the right direction. The reason players still cheese now is only because the enemies are just a little too straight forward. No special mechanic. 

 

So yea in short, your idea is not bad it's just that limitation is a little too narrow.

like I said, it depends on how many frames are in the pool, a good number imo is 10....since the elite mode is meant for vets, it's very impossible not to have 1 of these 10 frames. also I suggested that 1 of the frames in the pool is always a starter frame (excalibur, mag or volt) so you'll have even more chances to have one of the pool frames 

 

again, sticking to certain frames is ok, but remember that you'll have a chance to try something new, thus removing boredom and burnout, and it's only for 1 week. I suggested in the previous reply that if it's really necessary they're will be another node with similar rewards but with these kinda modifiers 

 

11 minutes ago, infinitiumolo said:

80% of the Warframes can't even compete in this game mode. Just like eidolon hunts, using an ineffective frame is completey pointless, Mag cant do anything to an Eidolon just like Loki cant do anything in onslaught.

 

Not everyone has every warframe, you would be heavily restricting <mr16 players. Doing a batch of warframes might leave a player with zero warframes to choose, and would only favor high mr24-25 players who have everything

 

since everyone will have access to the same frames, everyone will have fair chance at the leaderboards. also remember than every frame is good. this is not the eidolon fight, far from it, this is about killing, and every frame helps with killing in some way 

 

again, this is for vets and most players, most of them have at least 5 frames, and there's a decent chance it'll be in the pool, as an added guarantee, one of the pool frames would be always a starter, and almost everyone keeps their starter 

 

9 minutes ago, krc473 said:

That is true. But I am not sure EOS is the correct place for people to try decide if they like a frame. If you’ve barely used a frame, it may just be too underpowered for the game. That puts your whole team at a disadvantage. And what about when you run with three people that do not know how to use their frames? 

 

If they put a high MR restriction it might not be so bad, but if people want to fight level 80 enemies with half modded frames they have barely tried, the whole squad is going to hate it. The content may be aimed at vets, but it is not restricted to them. 

 

Yes, I see where you are coming from. But I just cannot see what you imagine happening actually occurring.

I mean, not every run is gonna go smoothly ofc, and it'll depend on how the mission will end up after the fixing and changes, since this change is a mechanic change. using the frames on normal mode first, getting a squad together before going in and just focusing on trying out and not necessarily getting the rewards, these can help with this. again it'll depend on the whole efficiency and scaling thing 

 

and you might not have a decent experience at first, but with time you'll be working on the frames you discovered and like and so on. having a barely modded frame is the first issue, but it won't be constant 

 

if you can't see it happening then it's no harm, you make good points, thanks for sharing :) 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by GinKenshin

[TentownsRaid]

It sound ok on paper but not everyone has every frame. There are vets I know who only have 5 frames because most are not their style and they consider them MR fodder.The game mode needs it's own balancing frame wise similar to how pvp is.The base game is too broken for the mode and try hards will be exploiting as much as they can.