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Nidus Deluxe Skin info?


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4 hours ago, Archeyef said:

Not really. No more than saying it's good spits in the face of people who don't like it. People are allowed to voice their opinions. I don't begrudge anyone who likes it saying they like it, even if I disagree. I don't, by the way, I think it looks awesome. I just don't think it's suited to Nidus, that's all.

Correct. Still gonna state my opinion.

"Too" implies I have for this one. I can only speak for myself, of course, but I haven't [redacted] on it.

And?

Yup. Though I think it might be more accurate to say he expresses more of the warframes' infested nature. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Oh, we don't need a poll for that. People love this skin, and I understand why. It looks awesome. And I hope all of you who don't have my opinion on it not fitting Nidus rock it. Go for it, my dude.

You can poison a well with negativity but you can't poison one with positivity. People liking it doesn't spit on the the face of those that don't because those that don't are inherently trying to ruin something great, not the other way around. If this did somehow become a new frame and we got a different Nidus Deluxe skin then it might be a win-win cause we all ultimately get the skin, it just won't be Nidus'

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On 2018-05-11 at 3:32 PM, Ezekeel666 said:

Except chitin armour does not grow like that in nature. The structures on the frame have the form of forged metal.

You are talking about a Warframe, a biological, specially designed thing custom tailored by beings that have effectively mastered the art of genetic manipulation, to the point that there isnt an unaltered creature left in existence in the solar system.

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1 hour ago, ReapeaterX23 said:

You can poison a well with negativity but you can't poison one with positivity. People liking it doesn't spit on the the face of those that don't because those that don't are inherently trying to ruin something great, not the other way around. If this did somehow become a new frame and we got a different Nidus Deluxe skin then it might be a win-win cause we all ultimately get the skin, it just won't be Nidus'

Okay, yes, but do you know what I saw when I looked back through this thread?  I saw a lot of people who thought it didn't fit Nidus still express that it was a really cool design. And maybe two or three people who seriously disliked it and thought it was bad. This is far from poisoning anyone's well. I'm not sure where the negativity you're talking about is. Please show me.

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14 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

Go look at the feedback threads for Nova and Ember Deluxe. Mind you a lot of the more toxic comments were probably pruned...and there were plenty. Still, there's far more dislike than like with regard to those skins.

You have no idea how supply / demand capitalism works, do you?

If you're smart and you want maxim profit, you go with what the majority of the public says they will be willing to buy. Smart companies ask, "Would you like to buy this or this? Why or why not?" and go with what the majority of the polled sample wants to see.

I know these things. I worked in advertising for several years, helping to successfully market several products.

I'm VERY sure that DE could have made far more money off those skins IF they had paid attention to all the highly critical and negative feedback they got even before they released the skins...and actually revised the skins accordingly.

You have no proof.

You assert that the majority disliked those particular skins, yet have no way to measure this. You assert that other skins would have sold better, but this is speculative at best. Especially since we still have no idea how they sold in comparison to other skins.

Are the people complaining the same people who spend money in the Marketplace? Are they platinum farmers? Are they people who never had any intent to acquire those skins? Are they completionists who'll buy anything labelled 'Deluxe'?

If you worked in advertising, then you'll know of the position 'Market Researcher'. There's a lot more to it than straight up asking whether someone would buy something, as Coca-Cola will attest. New Coke, anyone?

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12 hours ago, Archeyef said:

Just a friendly suggestion to start, you should really work on your formating. Long posts are a little bit of a chore to read when they're all one paragraph like that.

Yes, looking like other infested. Yes, if you want it to look like infested, looking like infested would be rather necessary. I'm looking at the design of the skin and comparing it to what is known to represent infestation. And when you compare this skin to examples of infestation, you find that it doesn't visually match.

I will grant that Nidus is more... streamlined than wild infestation. And yes, that is likely down to Orokin sensibilities. But he maintains key design elements of the infested faction. He still looks like twisted, diseased flesh, albeit more "polished," as you say. And the deluxe skin, though very cool, does not have those elements. Therefore, doesn't look infested.

I think there might be a fundamental misunderstanding here so I'm going to try and clear it up. As I said before, the skin does not use the shape language of the infested and for that reason does not look infested. "Shape Language" is a term used in visual design and concept work to refer to a set of design elements that tie different individual designs within a design group together and distinguish them from other design groups. You'll notice that when you look at any Corpus unit, it will have a characteristic look to it, which is, for example, different from the Grineer. The Grineer, likewise, all share design elements that are unique to the Grineer, so they are instantly recognizable as Grineer.

This is a separate issue from "theme." In this sense, "theme" is a much broader, more nebulous conceptual family which can have many very different expressions and is not as dependent on visual design.

Assuming you're talking about the post you quoted earlier in this page, you really didn't. You talked about the concept behind the infested, that of a biological answer to the Sentients' hive mind. And that does make some sense. But that's the infested as a faction concept, not a visual design, and doesn't really apply to what I'm saying. I'm talking about the visual design of the infested, not the faction concept.

But he was designed to do that. Why would the Orokin design him to do that if they were so very against it? Seems to me that they're more okay with it than you're suggesting.

That's... really not a good argument. "It has extra arms, therefore not undead" ignores all the other things that Repeater lists, which are almost all hallmarks of undead. The extra arms are also quite clearly energy/spectral, so I'm not sure why you're bringing anatomy into it. It needn't apply to them.

Those hands are likely to use the Energy color group. Aside from aesthetics, it's generally a good idea from a teamwork standpoint to use brighter energy colors on Nidus so that his Ravenous and maggots are easily recognizable. Using dark colors on the Energy channel to reduce the prominence of the arms isn't really a good solution, as it reduces recognizability of Ravenous and maggots.

Ok so lets start from the top "looking like other infested". Infestation is a theme the looks of it can vary. For example from real life lets say canines are the theme so the representatives could be lets say wolf as a very typical canine and next representative could be pug. Now yes they have some similarities but are also quite differente in facial features size and so on. And if you very good example from game itself you have feral kavats and kavats that are made from kurbrow eggs. Feral kavats have sharp tails, scales all over them (so no fur) and over all look like crosbreed between reptile and cat. And on the other side there is the genetic code kavat that looks almost like crossbreed of squirel and cat (has fur and not even slightly sharp tail). But you can still tell its kavat even though they look very different just like nidus and nidus deluxe. 

It doesnt have infested elements? So tell me what are those countless eyes on his arms or his helmet revealing things that look like teeth and brain or even extra pair of arms. All of it is represented in specimens of infestation and no other faction in game shows similiar features. And yes it doesnt look completly infested because it has 2 themes. One is infested sure but another is theme of warframes. Warframes also follow their own humanoid looking design that differs a lot but is recognizable from other factions. And yes i admit that theme isnt as specific as body language but infestation is a whole theme and what you described is body language of wild infestation but like with kavats laboratory made infestation will have a bit different body language to make it obvious what it is. Another theme example could be corpus you have body language of crewman and then you have body language of moas but bot of those body languages even though they are quite different belong to theme of corpus. 

Visual desing is very dependent on the concept of the faction. For example if you take grineer and their concept of rebel slaves that clone themselves, augment themselves and are stricly militaristic you surely wouldnt make them look like pacifists with peace signs all over the place. You would make them look like soldiers. So when you have concept of infestation that i described already you surely wouldnt make it like normal people that i dont know for example suck life force from other people. 

Why would orokin design nidus to look polished in base form? Well it comes from their nature everything around them had to be perfect so did nidus. But on the battlefield not so much because orokin from what we know about them didnt usually fight themselves but used warframes or dex soldiers. So nidus looking ugly on battlefield would not concern them if he looked polished while around them. I admit this skin looks more polished in its evolved form than in the basic form but thats up to the designer. Normal nidus follows this concept.

Anatomy is quite a good argument in fact because even grineer with their cloning problems try to look as much human as possible (2 legs 2 hands etc) Corpus design their moas after animals and they themselves also look humanoid. Tenno? Also look humanoid. Sentient? Look like robots and have robotic electronic parts not living flesh. Sindicates also look humanoid (except cephalon suda). Only faction that alters anathomy of living beings seems to be infestation. So corpses of not infested things would have normal anathomy that is unique to their species. We havent encoutered anything with more limbs in warframe yet except infested things. And another thing why i think its not undead is  that is is specificaly blue translucent flesh on those arms and brain. Same thing is in metal gear: revengeance in cyborgs to power them up. Radioctiv materials produce glow of this color (usually not green but yellow or blue that can mix and apear green but its not). And last thing that votes for it not being undead would be that orokin use regroving organic materials as showed on tower of unum. And if it grows its usually not dead (if you dont count after death hair and nail growth caused by using residue of nourishment).

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5 hours ago, SaferSaviour said:

-snip-

Oh look, the "you can't prove anything, therefore I'm right" fallacy. Haven't seen that around here in a while. Also with a touch of "burden of proof", "tu quoque", and just a hint of "strawman".

*sigh*

First off, don't lecture me about advertising and marketing. I worked in advertising for at least 6 years with senior designers, project managers, copywriters, media analysts, etc. not to mention various reps from several national brands in the U.S., so I have a far better idea than you as to what sells and how to make things that sell...and I wouldn't even consider myself a complete expert on the matter. That being said, unless you have a Bachelors in Marketing and had several years of experience working in a company that actually makes and sells things, you don't get to lecture me about anything with regard to marketing and selling a product.

Secondly, you also picked one of the WORST examples of a marketing gaff, because it actually helps proves my point. The release of New Coke was a fiasco due to flawed market research in which critically important data that was hinted at in feedback from the focus groups and marketing surveys was missed / ignored by management; data that indicated that the general public would not take well to an established brand being tinkered with too much and that releasing a variant alongside the original formula might be a better idea.

Result? A lot of backlash and lost revenue and faith in the Coca Cola brand. Because higher ups failed to listen and plowed ahead. It took months of expensive damage control to restore consumer confidence in the brand.

You know what happened with Nova and Ember Deluxe when they were released? Salt. Lots of salt. Most of it revolving around statements like "This looks nothing like x", "This is ugly" and "We gave you feedback and suggestions and you guys ignored us anyway". This last bit is important...because that's exactly what DE did at the risk to their own profits.

I was hoping we could reach some middle ground and acknowledgement, but apparently you absolutely have to be right and at this point, I refuse to waste any more of my time arguing with a proverbial brick wall.

It's safe to say that the facts and common sense speak for themselves and you're just plain wrong, whether you care to admit that or not. 

Good day.

Everyone else:

Sorry for the wall o' text, felt the need to respond to and dispute what I deemed to be a fallacious claim. I hope I kept things reasonably civil.

 

Edited by MirageKnight
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2 hours ago, MirageKnight said:

Oh look, the "you can't prove anything, therefore I'm right" fallacy. Haven't seen that around here in a while. Also with a touch of "burden of proof", "tu quoque", and just a hint of "strawman".

*sigh*

First off, don't lecture me about advertising and marketing. I worked in advertising for at least 6 years with senior designers, project managers, copywriters, media analysts, etc. not to mention various reps from several national brands in the U.S., so I have a far better idea than you as to what sells and how to make things that sell...and I wouldn't even consider myself a complete expert on the matter. That being said, unless you have a Bachelors in Marketing and had several years of experience working in a company that actually makes and sells things, you don't get to lecture me about anything with regard to marketing and selling a product.

Secondly, you also picked one of the WORST examples of a marketing gaff, because it actually helps proves my point. The release of New Coke was a fiasco due to flawed market research in which critically important data that was hinted at in feedback from the focus groups and marketing surveys was missed / ignored by management; data that indicated that the general public would not take well to an established brand being tinkered with too much and that releasing a variant alongside the original formula might be a better idea.

Result? A lot of backlash and lost revenue and faith in the Coca Cola brand. Because higher ups failed to listen and plowed ahead. It took months of expensive damage control to restore consumer confidence in the brand.

You know what happened with Nova and Ember Deluxe when they were released? Salt. Lots of salt. Most of it revolving around statements like "This looks nothing like x", "This is ugly" and "We gave you feedback and suggestions and you guys ignored us anyway". This last bit is important...because that's exactly what DE did at the risk to their own profits.

I was hoping we could reach some middle ground and acknowledgement, but apparently you absolutely have to be right and at this point, I refuse to waste any more of my time arguing with a proverbial brick wall.

It's safe to say that the facts and common sense speak for themselves and you're just plain wrong, whether you care to admit that or not. 

Good day.

Everyone else:

Sorry for the wall o' text, felt the need to respond to and dispute what I deemed to be a fallacious claim. I hope I kept things reasonably civil.

 

You're slipping away from civil, I'm afraid. I don't need to know your life. I won't be baited into sharing mine.

Firstly, please reread my responses, because I don't believe I've actually made any claims regarding those skins. "Fallacious" or otherwise. My earliest response was simply that I wanted the new skin. After that? I called you out for making unprovable claims. I made none of my own.

I'm not suggesting that you're wrong. I'm suggesting that you can't prove anything. There's no need for "strawmen" or "tu quoque" as I have no opposing argument, but when you're making the claims you're making, you're darn right I'm going to put the burden of proof on you. That's all I've asked for in these responses.

The only thing you have to go on is salty posts. That's it. No other data. From this alone you are making wild claims (that's why I mentioned New Coke, by the way. They took the one bit of data they wanted, the results of that infamous blind taste test, and charged ahead. Apparently an off-hand mention of that counts as a 'lecture' though, so I apologise).

Edited by SaferSaviour
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3 hours ago, SaferSaviour said:

You're slipping away from civil, I'm afraid. I don't need to know your life. I won't be baited into sharing mine.

Firstly, please reread my responses, because I don't believe I've actually made any claims regarding those skins. "Fallacious" or otherwise. My earliest response was simply that I wanted the new skin. After that? I called you out for making unprovable claims. I made none of my own.

I'm not suggesting that you're wrong. I'm suggesting that you can't prove anything. There's no need for "strawmen" or "tu quoque" as I have no opposing argument, but when you're making the claims you're making, you're darn right I'm going to put the burden of proof on you. That's all I've asked for in these responses.

The only thing you have to go on is salty posts. That's it. No other data. From this alone you are making wild claims (that's why I mentioned New Coke, by the way. They took the one bit of data they wanted, the results of that infamous blind taste test, and charged ahead. Apparently an off-hand mention of that counts as a 'lecture' though, so I apologise).

3

The forums is the main gathering of warframe players. Just saying.

And I think what you're saying goes both ways tho. Can you prove that the Nova deluxe wasn't hated by the majority? For his claims, the forums serve as an example no matter how many were salty posts or complete hate threads. It still serves his point that the majority didn't like the Nova deluxe.

 Ember deluxe is a mixed bag honestly, some hated because it wasn't the previous concept, some liked it but hated that the previous concept wasn't made, and some just liked the skin because they know it's not going to change.

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1 minute ago, ShadowExodus said:

The forums is the main gathering of warframe players. Just saying.

And I think what you're saying goes both ways tho. Can you prove that the Nova deluxe wasn't hated by the majority? For his claims, the forums serve as an example no matter how many were salty posts or complete hate threads. It still serves his point that the majority didn't like the Nova deluxe.

 Ember deluxe is a mixed bag honestly, some hated because it wasn't the previous concept, some liked it but hated that the previous concept wasn't made, and some just liked the skin because they know it's not going to change.

I doubt every player of Warframe bothers with the forums. A look at active accounts on both should prove that.

But that aside, I'm not aiming to prove him wrong. Honestly, I'm not here with an opposing viewpoint when it comes to those particular skins. I simply think some of the claims he's made extrapolate too much from very limited data.

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First, thanks for the paragraphs. I really do appreciate it. And this is starting to get a bit long, so I'm gonna spoiler it to save space.

Spoiler
9 hours ago, butka1998 said:

Ok so lets start from the top "looking like other infested". Infestation is a theme the looks of it can vary. For example from real life lets say canines are the theme so the representatives could be lets say wolf as a very typical canine and next representative could be pug. Now yes they have some similarities but are also quite differente in facial features size and so on. And if you very good example from game itself you have feral kavats and kavats that are made from kurbrow eggs. Feral kavats have sharp tails, scales all over them (so no fur) and over all look like crosbreed between reptile and cat. And on the other side there is the genetic code kavat that looks almost like crossbreed of squirel and cat (has fur and not even slightly sharp tail). But you can still tell its kavat even though they look very different just like nidus and nidus deluxe. 

I understand this point very well. But what I'm trying to say is that there is a set of design elements that the Infested all share, despite the very different body forms. This is what distinguishes them from other factions, even though they are mostly made from other factions. As I stated before, shape language is different from theme. Theme, in this sense, is the concept behind a faction. Shape language is the set of design elements that touches everything from characters to weapons to vehicles to architecture. It's the faction's aesthetic, and it's how you can tell something belongs to that faction. Incidentally, this also applies to kavats. Kavats have their own shape language. Every kavat conforms to that shape language regardless of whether they're wild, grineer, or tenno.

9 hours ago, butka1998 said:

It doesnt have infested elements? So tell me what are those countless eyes on his arms or his helmet revealing things that look like teeth and brain or even extra pair of arms. All of it is represented in specimens of infestation and no other faction in game shows similiar features.

Not really, no. Not defining Infested elements. I don't know what the countless eyes are. I'm not even convinced they are eyes, actually. That wasn't the impression I got for them. Perhaps they are, but we'll have to wait and see. Exposed brain, teeth, multiple eyes and extra limbs are actually not part of the infested shape language, believe it or not. I can't even recall seeing things that are definitively eyes on infested, now that I think about it. A lot of glowy lights where I'd expect eyes, but not much that's definitely an eye. Some Infested have extra limbs, some don't. It's definitely a feature that some Infested have, but it's not universal.

9 hours ago, butka1998 said:

And yes it doesnt look completly infested because it has 2 themes. One is infested sure but another is theme of warframes. Warframes also follow their own humanoid looking design that differs a lot but is recognizable from other factions. And yes i admit that theme isnt as specific as body language but infestation is a whole theme and what you described is body language of wild infestation but like with kavats laboratory made infestation will have a bit different body language to make it obvious what it is. Another theme example could be corpus you have body language of crewman and then you have body language of moas but bot of those body languages even though they are quite different belong to theme of corpus. 

Nidus also had this dual theme and still maintained an Infested appearance. As for laboratory Infested having different shape language, that's actually not true. The mutalist Infested, including the Boilers and Broodmothers, were all created via laboratory experimentation by Alad V. They maintain the same shape language as the rest of the Infested. And as for the Corpus, I think you might still not be getting what shape language, not body language, is. As I mentioned earlier in this post, it's a set of design elements that distinguish one group from all other groups, in every aspect of design, despite differences in individual form. Characters, weapons, vehicles, and architecture will all share these basic design elements. It's a way of allowing diversity of design while maintaining a cohesive look. And the Nidus Deluxe skin falls outside the Infested shape language. That doesn't make it bad or good, and that particular point doesn't make it not fit Nidus. It's just an evaluation on whether it looks infested or not.

9 hours ago, butka1998 said:

Visual desing is very dependent on the concept of the faction. For example if you take grineer and their concept of rebel slaves that clone themselves, augment themselves and are stricly militaristic you surely wouldnt make them look like pacifists with peace signs all over the place. You would make them look like soldiers. So when you have concept of infestation that i described already you surely wouldnt make it like normal people that i dont know for example suck life force from other people.

That's true, but I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. Can you elaborate some more, please?

9 hours ago, butka1998 said:

Anatomy is quite a good argument in fact because even grineer with their cloning problems try to look as much human as possible (2 legs 2 hands etc) Corpus design their moas after animals and they themselves also look humanoid. Tenno? Also look humanoid. Sentient? Look like robots and have robotic electronic parts not living flesh. Sindicates also look humanoid (except cephalon suda). Only faction that alters anathomy of living beings seems to be infestation. So corpses of not infested things would have normal anathomy that is unique to their species. We havent encoutered anything with more limbs in warframe yet except infested things. And another thing why i think its not undead is  that is is specificaly blue translucent flesh on those arms and brain. Same thing is in metal gear: revengeance in cyborgs to power them up. Radioctiv materials produce glow of this color (usually not green but yellow or blue that can mix and apear green but its not). And last thing that votes for it not being undead would be that orokin use regroving organic materials as showed on tower of unum. And if it grows its usually not dead (if you dont count after death hair and nail growth caused by using residue of nourishment).

I think you missed my point. Anatomy matters, but the blue arms appear to be ghostly. That is, they aren't physically attached. If that is the case, then any argument regarding anatomy doesn't apply because they're not really, physically there, and thus don't need any anatomical attachments.

And you're again conflating theme and lore with design, when I'm only talking about design. The design elements used in the deluxe skin are more commonly associated with the undead from a visual design standpoint than they are with the Infested.

 

 

1 hour ago, Screamlord_Star said:

hey i wonder whats going on in this thre-

BY THE LOTUS

Isn't it fun? I'm having fun.

Edited by Archeyef
Added a little more to the very end of my rebuttal
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1 hour ago, ShadowExodus said:

Hardly a wall of text compared to some of the posts here

I still felt that needed saying, but thanks.

1 hour ago, (XB1)Mythical Warden said:

I'm more in hope for the Vauban Deluxe skin! It looks so amazing based off of the art that has been added. 

Agreed. At least with that upcoming deluxe (and this is largely subjective mind you) I still see a bit of Vauban in it.

1 hour ago, (XB1)Mythical Warden said:

Has that sick Full Metal Alchemist.

Just noticed that now. Dang it...have to watch that again...

1 hour ago, ShadowExodus said:

I won't be baited into sharing mine.

Ok...

What I'm saying is if you're backing up an argument by saying you're more knowledgeable about X than most people, then you're kinda obligated to prove that if you want your point to carry any weight. Like I was obligated to prove I have a somewhat better understanding about product development and marketing than most. Which I did. If I simply left it at me saying "I know more about x therefore my argument prevails", that would have be understandably taken by others as me simply voicing an opinion, rather than offering a valid counterpoint to a discussion.

At any rate, drama belongs in the theater not in a forum. I apologize if I came off as being a bit hostile as it wasn't my intent. I did feel a bit like I was being attacked though and I had the distinct impression that you weren't willing to consider what I had to say. It's hard to judge someone's intent or tone if they don't make themselves clear enough...that goes for me as well.

 

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1 hour ago, Screamlord_Star said:

hey i wonder whats going on in this thre-

BY THE LOTUS

This is why Lotus abandoned us to go with the blue guy who looks like he belongs in Space Jam.

 

Seriously, someone should go and photoshop Ballas, Lotus, and the Tenno into the scene where Michael Jordan stretches his arm to dunk on the Monstars. 

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On 2018-05-16 at 5:20 AM, XaelathRavenstorm said:

Not every skin should have the same theme as the base. The idea of skins is to add different themes and style.

Tasteless people

maybe tasteless, i just feel like it's a wasted opportunity. we could have theme-derail with any other frame, but Nidus was unique with the infested look yet he got "derailed" into looking like any other frame, that's probably my biggest beef.
Yes the design look awesome and i would love it in the game but for anyone else or as its own frame. I was so excited for some organic monstrosity or maybe something tribal for Nidus, but we get another oriental,bulky-armor looking thing for the only frame that could have have something different

Maybe everyone who's upset about it are people who love the organic nature of Nidus and knowing that this is the only thing he will get in a while, if he ever gets anything else, and it not being the aesthetic they love when there was potential for there being more for it, it can be frustrating.

I'm glad most people like it, cause this is what we're getting and we dont have to like everything, i'm just sad for the missed opportunity

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On ‎2018‎-‎05‎-‎13 at 10:41 AM, Archeyef said:

Just wanna say, thanks for not tarring all of us who dislike it with the same deluded or blind brush. Or any other insults that have been slung our way. I'm really getting sick of the dog-piling, when all I say is I disagree. So yeah, +1, and enjoy the new skin. :thumbup:

Why, thank you. I appreciate positive feedback when I am being honest and hate it when people are so close-minded that they really cannot accept any other opinion than their own. I will happily wear the skin while hoping that Nidus Prime will be more to our liking. I am very excited for the reveal despite how far off it may be.

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