Maiming strike and the melee changes.

[CupcakesMoo]

21 minutes ago, (PS4)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt said:

Lol probably never farmed MS yourself. Someone Spending days upon days farming a mod that comes from an event like once or twice a year. Only to sell it for 150p. Nah cant do that. 

You spent days upon days farming for bologna. I hope you don't expect smart people to want to pay you for that?

Edited May 13, 2018 by CupcakesMoo

[CupcakesMoo]

Just now, OBCallum said:

Yes, for now. I've already traded my spares only have my maiming left which I will keep no matter the changes. Scam people out of 350 plat lol, you're really not too smart, If people buying them for 350+ almost exclusively its not scamming my dude its called selling.

Yeah.. its scamming. Its your typical form of scamming that a certain majority of people subscribe to in real life as well. "Well everyone is buying it for that so obviously its the right price!"

[OBCallum]

2 minutes ago, CupcakesMoo said:

You spent days upon days farming for bologna. I hope you don't expect people to want to pay you for that?

Also isn't tradable genius.

[CupcakesMoo]

1 minute ago, OBCallum said:

Also isn't tradable genius.

A nice attempt. But I don't think so. 

[OBCallum]

1 minute ago, CupcakesMoo said:

Yeah.. its scamming. Its your typical form of scamming that a certain majority of people subscribe to in real life as well. "Well everyone is buying it for that so obviously its the right price!"

Of course it is, you have no idea what you're talking about. Its called supply and demand, low supply huge demand coupled by the immense power of the mod. 

[CupcakesMoo]

15 minutes ago, OBCallum said:

Of course it is, you have no idea what you're talking about. Its called supply and demand, low supply huge demand coupled by the immense power of the mod. 

The mod was garbage from the get go. Especially when people started using a macro to make it OP. All that money went into this and now its going to get nerfed. It was inevitable. 

PS. Its probably going to take all of known melee down with it. Nice. 

Edited May 13, 2018 by CupcakesMoo

[OBCallum]

3 minutes ago, CupcakesMoo said:

The mod was garbage from the get go. Especially when people started using a macro to make it OP. All that money went into this and now its going to get nerfed. It was inevitable. 

PS. Its probably going to take all of known melee down with it. Nice. 

They had plans to change the melee system either way. They don't like the fact that almost none of the complicated system they added gets used, people just press e even if they are not using a maiming strike build.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

1 minute ago, CupcakesMoo said:

The mod was garbage from the get go. Especially when people started using a macro to make it OP. All that money went into this and now its going to get nerfed. It was inevitable. 

... But Maiming Strike isn’t getting nerfed...

Melee’s not going to punchthrough walls and (hopefully) some obstacles.

Range mods are getting rebalanced and overall melee range across the board will be buffed.

Vague and speculative concepts on how some crit mods will apply to the combo multiplier and the spectrum of how light attacks will be dealt with in their overall buff when increases in combo multiplier will not apply.

... Really now, you’re talking out of your 

on this one.

[CupcakesMoo]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

... But Maiming Strike isn’t getting nerfed...

Melee’s not going to punchthrough walls and (hopefully) some obstacles.

Range mods are getting rebalanced and overall melee range across the board will be buffed.

Vague and speculative concepts on how some crit mods will apply to the combo multiplier and the spectrum of how light attacks will be dealt with in their overall buff when increases in combo multiplier will not apply.

... Really now, you’re talking out of your 

 

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on this one.

Donkeys cannot speak. If its not getting nerfed it definitely should. You might as well make a program to play the game for you if this mod is so valuable to you. 

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

4 minutes ago, CupcakesMoo said:

Donkeys cannot speak. If its not getting nerfed it definitely should. You might as well make a program to play the game for you if this mod is so valuable to you. 

^He knows I’m a console player, right?

... Right?

[CupcakesMoo]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

^He knows I’m a console player, right?

... Right?

Oh its my fault I forgot console players existed. 

Except you can still automate gameplay if you just think about for a minute. 

Edited May 13, 2018 by CupcakesMoo

[rune_me]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

... But Maiming Strike isn’t getting nerfed...

Melee’s not going to punchthrough walls and (hopefully) some obstacles.

Range mods are getting rebalanced and overall melee range across the board will be buffed.

Vague and speculative concepts on how some crit mods will apply to the combo multiplier and the spectrum of how light attacks will be dealt with in their overall buff when increases in combo multiplier will not apply.

... Really now, you’re talking out of your 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

on this one.

If you watched the dev stream, it is quite clear it will get nerfed, They very clearly stated, in exact words, that they want to kill spin2win completely. They have already stated this many times before, but they made it very clear in this dev stream. There is no doubt now, that this is DE's intention. If they fail at that with this rework, they will almost certainly try again with more changes. If you expect maiming strike/blood rush/body count combo to continue to work as it does now, after what DE said and has said before, then you are fooling yourself. They want it gone.

[CupcakesMoo]

1 minute ago, rune_me said:

If you watched the dev stream, it is quite clear it will get nerfed, They very clearly stated, in exact words, that they want to kill spin2win completely. They have already stated this many times before, but they made it very clear in this dev stream. There is no doubt now, that this is DE's intention. If they fail at that with this rework, they will almost certainly try again with more changes. If you expect maiming strike/blood rush/body count combo to continue to work as it does now, after what DE said and has said before, then you are fooling yourself. They want it gone.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

14 minutes ago, rune_me said:

If you watched the dev stream, it is quite clear it will get nerfed, They very clearly stated, in exact words, that they want to kill spin2win completely. They have already stated this many times before, but they made it very clear in this dev stream. There is no doubt now, that this is DE's intention. If they fail at that with this rework, they will almost certainly try again with more changes. If you expect maiming strike/blood rush/body count combo to continue to work as it does now, after what DE said and has said before, then you are fooling yourself. They want it gone.

What they showcased is that they want to nerf the concept of spawn camping with spin2win, they want to remove that type of meta. They also acknowledged that people enjoy using slide attacks, and they did not want to remove that enjoyment from players and respected that concept.

The stream was a mixed bag of nerfs and damage control in implementing the eventual nerfs. I watched the stream and read the opening posts of the Melee Rework: Present and Future DevWorkshop thread. Maiming Strike is not getting a direct nerf in its mechanic in applying a flat critical value to slide melee attacks.

edit: For clarity (and parody). 4 minute mark:

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23

[CupcakesMoo]

Nah bro. They are going to nerf melee in general because people cant stop using spin2win.

[rune_me]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

The stream was a mixed bag of nerfs and damage control in implementing the eventual nerfs. I watched the stream and read the opening posts of the Melee Rework: Present and Future DevWorkshop thread. Maiming Strike is not getting a direct nerf in its mechanic in applying a flat critical value to slide melee attacks.

I agree with that. It's an indirect nerf. Already making it impossible to hit through walls will have a huge impact (except if you are on the plains). If it no longer syncs as it does now with blood rush and body count, it will become a lot less useful (no ones saying that it won't, yet, we have to wait and see just what happens with the combo meter before we can draw conclusions).

But I'm saying that if people find that they can just keep doing what they are doing now with maiming strike after the rework, then you should expect more changes to come in the future to remedy that.

The truth is that changes happen all the time in this game, and by now it's pretty obvious how DE operates and what their vision of the game is. Getting rid of spin2win should not be surprising. Getting rid of Saryns "spores on molt" or embers nerf should not have come as a surprise. If Octavia or Mesa gets nerfed next, this should not surprise anyone either.

Bottomline is, don't grow reliant on any one frame, weapon or mod in this game, especially not if it becomes a meta used for farming efficiently while doing as little hard work as possible. And certainly never think that just because something was valuable when you bought/farmed it, that it will stay valuable forever. Better to sell it now than hope it will become worth more in the future.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

1 minute ago, CupcakesMoo said:

Nah bro. They are going to nerf melee in general because people cant stop using spin2win.

Spin2winning is not the direct offender. Quick melee and appropriating combos that are easy to use and fall-on are the main offenders as well.

When players rather mash E or whatever melee button it’s hotkeyed to to pull off a combo, whatever pause or RMB/block combo is easier to pull off, that’s what the devstream and DevWorkshop thread meant to address. They want to expand on the monotony of what quick melee and certain stance combos have cemented into the melee systemic framework and drive away from it with variety.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

19 minutes ago, rune_me said:

[...]

But I'm saying that if people find that they can just keep doing what they are doing now with maiming strike after the rework, then you should expect more changes to come in the future to remedy that.

The truth is that changes happen all the time in this game, and by now it's pretty obvious how DE operates and what their vision of the game is. Getting rid of spin2win should not be surprising. Getting rid of Saryns "spores on molt" or embers nerf should not have come as a surprise. If Octavia or Mesa gets nerfed next, this should not surprise anyone either.

Bottomline is, don't grow reliant on any one frame, weapon or mod in this game, especially not if it becomes a meta used for farming efficiently while doing as little hard work as possible. And certainly never think that just because something was valuable when you bought/farmed it, that it will stay valuable forever. Better to sell it now than hope it will become worth more in the future.

That’s a whole fact. I don’t deny it.

However, keep in line with the reality that when DE does nerf something, it’s a pretty hefty nerf. This is why feedback spoken, typed, and expressed in a respectable manner is always important and controlled for discussion. I’m of the position of preventing nerfs as much as possible, and have seen plenty of them since my start in Warframe since the summer of 2015. There is legitimacy in “Doom Saying” when the majority of us are against nerfs, but there should also be some control with the intent that if you do support a nerf that you should also understand the implications, complications, and repercussions of supporting them since they can be widespanning and larger than you may have intended when supporting the process.

Changes in Warframe are always happening. This game has changed quite drastically since 3-5 years ago, and it has evolved so much that one meta over another has surfaced due to our gameplay flexibility. And with that comes our build diversity in how we, the gamers of Warframe, want to play Warframe. However, if there are some facets in the present game’s mechanics that we want to keep, it’s all the more important that we should respectfully communicate with DE that those elements should stay.

Experience is more valuable than any mod, weapon, or frame is available in the game.

addendum: Regarding the Saryn changes, I’m wholeheartedly against the concept of removing Toxic Lash’s synergy with Spores in gaining back energy per Spore popped. It was an interesting mechanic in making Saryn more energy economical that I hate to see this build variety go in the way of the Do-Do. My greatest wish is that this mechanic stays in with a slight expansion on it as I elaborated on my post here: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/955023-developer-workshop-saryn-revisited-20/?do=findComment&comment=9757207

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23

[trst]

1 hour ago, (PS4)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt said:

Exactly. I guess we need to accept that this is waframe. DE doesnt seem to care about endgame, challenging content. They are moving into the direction  of other gaming companies. Activision etc. They catered to CASUALS and KIDS. Lol. So eff it. Let the games begin. DE is doing the same thing. Peculiar bloom lmfao. This game has gone into a casual gamers direction. RIP. 

You're trying to imply that DE is catering the game for casuals... while they're trying to remove one of the most casual and overpowered mechanics in the game.

Also we've had fully end game content several times over but we've either powercreeped past it or discovered some cheese tactic to trivialize said content.

[rune_me]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

Changes in Warframe are always happening. This game has changed quite drastically since 3-5 years ago, and it has evolved so much that one meta over another has surfaced due to our gameplay flexibility. And with that comes our build diversity in how we, the gamers of Warframe, want to play Warframe. However, if there are some facets in the present game’s mechanics that we want to keep, it’s all the more important that we should respectfully communicate with DE that those elements should stay.

Of course. I was not saying "don't speak your opinions." I really hope I didn't came across as saying that. As long as it is respectful and offer constructive criticism, I say the more the better. 

It should probably be posted in the dev worksop though, where there's a whole thread dedicated to the melee changes, and where we know for a fact that the developers will read it because that's why they started the thread. General Discussion is probably not the place for it. We can still discuss it here, no problem with that, but the devs won't ever read it.

[(PSN)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt]

 

34 minutes ago, trst said:

You're trying to imply that DE is catering the game for casuals... while they're trying to remove one of the most casual and overpowered mechanics in the game.

Also we've had fully end game content several times over but we've either powercreeped past it or discovered some cheese tactic to trivialize said content.

Oh yea because maiming strike and a scoliac with a riven is for casuals lol. Farming millions of focus for focus schools is for casuals. LMFAO. AHHH. Good one.

Edited May 13, 2018 by (PS4)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt

[(PSN)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Lei-Lei_23 said:

... But Maiming Strike isn’t getting nerfed...

Melee’s not going to punchthrough walls and (hopefully) some obstacles.

Range mods are getting rebalanced and overall melee range across the board will be buffed.

Vague and speculative concepts on how some crit mods will apply to the combo multiplier and the spectrum of how light attacks will be dealt with in their overall buff when increases in combo multiplier will not apply.

... Really now, you’re talking out of your 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

on this one.

I do remember the days of using regular fang. Melee'ing like a mad man right behind an enemy only for it to not even connect because of lack of range. But here we go.

[CupcakesMoo]

Just now, (PS4)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt said:

40k plat. and

 

Oh yea because maiming strike and a scoliac with a riven is for casuals lol. Farming millions of focus for focus schools is for casuals. LMFAO. AHHH. Good one.

Why did you summon me back here? Very well. Maiming strike is still worth 40plat. Not 40k plat. Not 350 plat. Not 700 plat. 

40. 

[(PSN)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt]

5 minutes ago, CupcakesMoo said:

Why did you summon me back here? Very well. Maiming strike is still worth 40plat. Not 40k plat. Not 350 plat. Not 700 plat. 

40. 

It was a typo. Smarts. 

[----Fenrir----]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb (PS4)Lei-Lei_23:

Spin2winning is not the direct offender. Quick melee and appropriating combos that are easy to use and fall-on are the main offenders as well.

When players rather mash E or whatever melee button it’s hotkeyed to to pull off a combo, whatever pause or RMB/block combo is easier to pull off, that’s what the devstream and DevWorkshop thread meant to address. They want to expand on the monotony of what quick melee and certain stance combos have cemented into the melee systemic framework and drive away from it with variety.

The problem is that I'm not convinced that they understand their own game. Tactical slow 1 enemy at a time gameplay is simply not viable in a horde game that throws enemies at you from all sides. The only different approach to melee combat I could see working in Warframe is the way they handle it in Dynasty Warriors. And combat in Dynasty Warriors is also mostly about spamming AOE attacks because in that game you also need to kill hordes of enemies that come from all sides.

There are things Warframe can learn from Dynasty Warriors. For example combos in that game are easier to trigger than a lot of combos in Warframe and many of them also make enough of a difference to be actually worth using instead of just spamming the same button as fast as possible.