Weapon swap 2.0

[(PSN)CommanderRadec81]

Problem: It's slow. clunky, has not being addressed or mentioned by DE for years, has become worse and more noticeable with parkour 2.0, and bandaid mods

Why it's a problem: it breaks and slows down the gameplay flow, makes builds strict to only use high damage/meta weapons, creates a bad habit for both new and old players to stick to only one weapon in missions instead of doing more fun and creative ways to complete it with all weapons

Solutions:

• Remove the delay( it's really buggy when in co-op especially with a bad host)
• increase the base speed ( or make it teleportation-based  examples: Vanquish and Ratchet & Clank series)
• No longer resets or interrupted by rolling, knockdown, jumping etc.
• Cancel swap by quickly pressing swap button before the switch is complete
• Can swap while aiming and doing any one-handed actions like ability casting and picking up items
• Items like a datamass no longer drops from your hand unless swapping to primary
• While quick melee, tap the swap button (hold not required) to instantly switch to your melee weapon and your primary / secondary is holstered and be able to continue your combo smoothly( can also be done while doing a ground slam, air attack, and wall attack)
• While melee is equipped, tap swap button to switch to secondary( switches to primary instead if out of ammo or no secondary is equipped) and hold to switch to primary
• While dual wielding (secondary and melee), switching to melee your warframe will keep the melee weapon in their hand and holster the secondary
• While in melee, switching to dual wielding (secondary and melee) your warframe will keep the melee weapon in their hand and use their other hand to grab the secondary
• Add new sounds to weapon swap to indicate which weapon you switched to

Edited September 10, 2018 by (PS4)CommanderRadec81

[-CM-Zenshadow]

Personally, I don't see a problem with the current system. It can be annoying when you accidentally roll and you have to re-switch your weapons, but I just try to plan for that and switch beforehand. I think it's realistic and, if you'd really like, you can swap out your aura slot for [Speed Holster]; it'll make holstering a bit more fluid and less clunky because of the increased speed.

[Koldraxon-732]

Weapon swap currently, from my perspective, is OK, but if I wanted to rework it (and a revisit, at least, will come someday), then I have a few ideas given Melee 3.0's imminent arrival with 'any 1h sidearm x any 1h melee'.
Said ideas are in this Spoiler.
 

Spoiler

 

Swapping speed: should be double for small weapons (throwing knives, single-handed sidearms, daggers, dual daggers, swords, and other weapons of similarly small size) to make swapping to sidearms more fluid, but in general should be at the least 1/3x faster than it is now due to how long it takes for some weapons to equip.

Partly irrelevant note: weapons appearing from nowhere (customization: show holstered = no) exists.

Control alterations:
Weapon Swap Keybind:
Single tap: switch from Primary to Secondary.
Double-tap: switches Secondary to Secondary + Melee if that is available. Otherwise, swap to Melee.
Hold: switches to Melee.
Single tap while quick-meleeing: Melee does not go away and there is no illogical/random holstering-unholstering of said Melee.
Single tap, then hold: drops objective item.
Weapon Reload Keybind:
Tap, while weapon-swapping: stops weapon swap.

Additional changes:
-Rolling, bullet-jumping, sliding,aim-gliding, wall-latching, and so on will not interrupt weapon swaps. Instead, if the animation doesn't look like it can play, the weapon will just use the 'disappear' FX for invisible holstering and 'appear' FX for it to reappear where it's holstered, if you enabled such settings.
-Abilities can still be cast. If ability animation breaks weapon swapping animation, forgo latter animation (employ 'weapon teleports to hand' technique explained above).
-If swapping to Primary or dual-wielding with an Objective Item in hand, like a Datamass, play the 'ability not ready' sound and state that pressing [weapon swap button] will drop the objective item (meaning tap then hold to drop it).
-Objective items will not be dropped unless the [Single tap, then hold] action takes place.

 

 

[(PSN)CommanderRadec81]

1 hour ago, ZenshadowOfZramx said:

Personally, I don't see a problem with the current system. It can be annoying when you accidentally roll and you have to re-switch your weapons, but I just try to plan for that and switch beforehand. I think it's realistic and, if you'd really like, you can swap out your aura slot for [Speed Holster]; it'll make holstering a bit more fluid and less clunky because of the increased speed.

"realistic" Are we playing the same game here? This is Warframe and you play as a elite space ninja demigod with space magic, realism is completely irrelevant and also a human soldier is able to weapon swap far faster irl than a warframe at base speed just wut?!    

[(PSN)CommanderRadec81]

Requesting a mod to move thread to appropriate feedback category

[taiiat]

in general this is a Skill Players have to become competent at. just like how Parkour actions have limited 'charges' that have to be reset (so you'll have to learn how to mix all of the actions together if you want to ACTUALLY move fast - hint 'spam Bulletjump' is very slow movement), Reloading and switching Weapons has a period of time involved with it and you'll have to plan for it. don't try to Reload or switch Weapons right before you need to Roll/Air Roll to keep momentum up, essentially.
yes, it's a limitation. you can't do these things while moving at max speed. you'll have to account for this.

On 2018-05-27 at 6:49 PM, (PS4)CommanderRadec81 said:

• Remove the delay( it's really buggy when in co-op especially with a bad host)

this has nothing to do with that it takes time to Switch Weapons - but that the Client has to get permission from the Host to perform such an action. just like with switching to spacekid - it's not done Client side and therefore if the Host is bad, you can't do these things.
it has nothing to do with Animation Time.

On 2018-05-27 at 6:49 PM, (PS4)CommanderRadec81 said:

• No longer resets or interrupted by rolling, knockdown, jumping etc.
• Can swap while aiming and doing any one-handed actions like ability casting and picking up items
• While quick melee, tap the swap button (hold not required) to instantly switch to your melee weapon and your primary / secondary is holstered and be able to continue your combo smoothly( can also be done while doing a ground slam, air attack, and wall attack)
• While melee is equipped, tap swap button to switch to secondary( switches to primary instead if out of ammo or no secondary is equipped) and hold to switch to primary
• Add new sounds to weapon swap to indicate which weapon you switched to

• it currently is only interrupted by Rolling/Air Rolling. (and Melee Attack/Shooting but that's not surprising or strange)
• i mean sure, it could let you stay in Fine Aim while switching, i guess.
• i would absolutely hate this. no. get that crap out of here. if i want to Switch Weapons, i'm pressing the button for switching to the Weapon i want. i don't want what i'm doing currently to change how the button works.
  if you don't like the default omni button for Switching Weapons, you can split the Bind :D
  
  instead, what you sound like you want, is that if you try to switch to Melee while you're performing Quick Melee, for it to be faster than if your Melee Weapon is currently Holstered. that, absolutely.
• yeah ideally we'd have Weapon Slot 1/2/3 and 3 buttons to manage what is Equipped so we can always Switch exactly to what we want (the split Bindings remove the extra slow Melee switching, but switching out of Melee to a specific Gun rather than necessarily the last used isn't possible yes).
• as long as i can turn those sounds off, it doesn't matter to me.

 

On 2018-05-27 at 8:08 PM, Koldraxon-732 said:

Control alterations:

-Rolling, bullet-jumping, sliding,aim-gliding, wall-latching, and so on will not interrupt weapon swaps.

wouldn't it be easier to just have direct Bindings rather than the Weapon Switching DDR you're trying to setup?
(though being able to disable 'dual wielding' would be much appreciated from me, yes. though that's mostly because the hand that holds the Gun puts it literally covering the center of the screen so you can't see anything in this mode. if the Character held the Gun in a NORMAL location, then i wouldn't really mind either way)

uhh.... only Rolling currently interupts Reloading or Weapon Switching(and Melee/Shooting but those are not mentioned here nor is it surprising that those interrupt). none of the other things mentioned interrupt it.

[Hyohakusha]

   I'm on PC so I've never had an issue with keybinds, and you actually can swap between secondary and melee while holding a datamass without dropping it. That said, you're dead on about the slow speed and annoyance of having motions cancel the swap, as well as not having the feeling of a proper back-up secondary you can draw and fire faster in less time than it takes reloading your primary. The conclave holster speed mods and that one exilus mod I can't remember the name of exist, but honestly it should just be applied as a baseline. It's like how we had scope sway on sniper rifles. Warframe's aren't subject to the usual physical and reflexive restrictions as things with soft fleshy bodies and muscles not reinforced with space metal. Not only does it feel clunky, it doesn't feel right from a lore perspective either when a human can do it faster irl.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Hyohakusha

[V0LK]

It's been a problem for ages. DE's answer were band-aid mods. Why mods? Because changing animation requires work. I'm pretty sure weapon equip animation hasn't changed from Alpha that's why it's clunky and slow as hell. And I'm 100% sure they'll never change that.

[(PSN)CommanderRadec81]

On 2018-08-12 at 11:02 AM, taiiat said:

this has nothing to do with that it takes time to Switch Weapons - but that the Client has to get permission from the Host to perform such an action. just like with switching to spacekid - it's not done Client side and therefore if the Host is bad, you can't do these things.
it has nothing to do with Animation Time.

 

Where did I even mention swap speed? The delay(the time before the game decides to actually commit the action) also happens in solo but in co-op it's worse because I have to hope for it to function properly or glitches outs that it doesn't even swap, finally swap after a like 3 mins, or get stuck in the animation.

[(PSN)CommanderRadec81]

On 2018-08-12 at 11:02 AM, taiiat said:

i would absolutely hate this. no. get that crap out of here. if i want to Switch Weapons, i'm pressing the button for switching to the Weapon i want. i don't want what i'm doing currently to change how the button works.
if you don't like the default omni button for Switching Weapons, you can split the Bind :D

instead, what you sound like you want, is that if you try to switch to Melee while you're performing Quick Melee, for it to be faster than if your Melee Weapon is currently Holstered. that, absolutely.

You realize I made that suggestion for console and PC players with controllers right?

[(PSN)CommanderRadec81]

On 2018-08-13 at 10:04 AM, V0LK said:

It's been a problem for ages. DE's answer were band-aid mods. Why mods? Because changing animation requires work. I'm pretty sure weapon equip animation hasn't changed from Alpha that's why it's clunky and slow as hell. And I'm 100% sure they'll never change that.

But yet they are willing to overhaul melee, making railjack, and doing a massive weapons rebalance but not fix a basic gameplay mechanic that affect the entire game. I'm not a game dev but that just sounds ridiculous and I know they are not that incompetent.

Edited August 15, 2018 by (PS4)CommanderRadec81

[taiiat]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderRadec81 said:

Where did I even mention swap speed? The delay(the time before the game decides to actually commit the action) also happens in solo but in co-op it's worse because I have to hope for it to function properly or glitches outs that it doesn't even swap, finally swap after a like 3 mins, or get stuck in the animation.

(and the solution is to make it Clientside and Wormhole too pls while someone is at it)

6 minutes ago, (PS4)CommanderRadec81 said:

You realize I made that suggestion for console and PC players with controllers right?

the problem i see, is that Controller Bindings doesn't give you the same options that KBM gets for options.

[Loza03]

Honestly, the animation makes no sense. Yes it's a 'skill' that must be developed, like Parkour. But consider this: If you get good at parkour, you get a combat advantage. If you get good at weapon switching, you minimise (not remove) a combat disadvantage. Parkour encourages you to do it - Parkour feels great, and is beneficial ase you move from location to location faster, can gain vantage points in the middle of battle and reduce the damage you take. Taking several seconds to switch weapons has no benefit. Why would you ever switch weapons in combat outside of situations where you have to (like fighting sentients without Operator or Umbra as a challenge)? What benefit is gained from not shooting for several seconds, not being able to roll, bullet jump or cast abilities is there?

[(PSN)CommanderRadec81]

28 minutes ago, taiiat said:

the problem i see, is that Controller Bindings doesn't give you the same options that KBM gets for options.

https://imgur.com/gallery/Z5S4C8B

[(PSN)CommanderRadec81]

On 2018-08-12 at 11:02 AM, taiiat said:

instead, what you sound like you want, is that if you try to switch to Melee while you're performing Quick Melee, for it to be faster than if your Melee Weapon is currently Holstered. that, absolutely.

This is what I been trying to say since currently it's so janky.

• wait for attack animation to stop
• wait for your warframe to holster the melee weapon 
• wait for your warframe to pull out the primary/secondary
• wait for your warframe to holster the primary/secondary
• wait for your warframe to pull out the melee weapon

All that just to switch to melee?! Why???

 

[V0LK]

5 hours ago, (PS4)CommanderRadec81 said:

But yet they are willing to overhaul melee, making railjack, and doing a massive weapons rebalance but not fix a basic gameplay mechanic that affect the entire game. I'm not a game dev but that just sounds ridiculous and I know they are not that incompetent.

DE is known for introducing new stuff without fixing old broken stuff. Clunky and ancient weapon switch animation is not on a priority list(i.e. they don't care). On a topic of DE's competence - it took them two years to realize how useless stamina was. At one point they made sprint to consume even more stamina so our space ninjas would run for like 3 seconds. Why? Beats me.