[Warframe Rework Suggestion] Limbo: Rift "Peek-A-Boo" Style {New Rift Feature, Changes to 1st and 3d Power}

[FoxFX]

THE LIMBO REWORK "PEEK-A-BOO" STYLE

LINK TO THE ORIGINAL THREAD DESCRIBING THE PEEK-A-BOO STYLE

 

EXPLAINING THE GOAL OF THIS REWORK THREAD

The basic goal of this new Limbo Rift "Peek-A-Boo" Style and Ability changes is to suggest a new mechanic change to the Rift which makes Limbo's playstyle less intrusive and bring a lot more practicality to the rest of Limbo's kit. This is mainly to describe how the Peek-A-Boo Rift could work and how this change will require certain adjustments to Limbo's current abilities.

To give a more general term of what this rework is all about:

The first and third ability of Limbo won't place enemies into the Rift. In addition, the Rift itself will be treated as a special defensive mechanic that Limbo and his allies alone can play along with.

 

THE RIFT AND THE "PEEK-A-BOO" FEATURE CONCEPT

 

EXPLAINING HOW THIS COULD BE DONE:

_{Spoiler containing vid displaying a visualization of this new Rift feature: "Peek-A-Boo"}

Spoiler

 

While the video is one idea that visualizes this idea, there is a specific Warframe ability that better shows how this could be done: Ivara's Prowl. If you recall how Prowl functions when using a loud Primary/Secondary weapon, firing with such a weapon temporarily reveals Ivara. Not firing would place Ivara back into the invisibility of Prowl. This is what the whole Peek-A-Boo Rift is all about.

The mechanics of Prowl can be implemented into the Rift: treating the Rift mechanic of Limbo as some protection ability that allows for surprise popup attacks.

 

HOW THE PEEK-A-BOO RIFT WILL CHANGE LIMBO'S PLAYSTYLE

For the Pee-A-Boo Rift to work, it is required that Limbo's 1st ability and 3rd ability should be changed to no longer put enemies in the Rift. The Peek-A-Boo Rift's main playstyle works best when enemies are still in the Material Plane. Note that this won't affect Cataclysm nor Stasis. However, changes to the first ability and the third ability are necessary.

 

THE NEW FIRST ABILITY OF LIMBO

Limbo already has access to unlimited Energy Regeneration and it is probably best if Cataclysm was the ability that can potentially send all into the Rift. While Banish is a simple ability, many Limbos would rather spend more time in the Rift than being in the same plane as an enemy to cast Banish on them. There is also the issue of the Energy Color of Limbo making it difficult for some players to see if an enemy is in the Rift or not. To eliminate that, here is a new first ability I would suggest for Limbo:

 

LIMBO NEW FIRST ABILITY: RIFT BLAST

Quote

 

Limbo summons Rift Energy to the Material Plane as a blast attack.

• Maintains its conical zone AOE
• Enemies hit will receive Impact damage and will be knocked down [Could have the Impact damage it does increase further]
• Allies hit will be temporarily in the Rift Plane with a Duration based on how the Limbo is modded for Duration
• [With Augment Haven] Allies hit by the impact of Rift Blast will receive the Health Recovery

 

 

So in general, Banish would be replaced with a blast attack of Rift energy Limbo summons at the location he chooses. This would simply damage and knockdown enemies, but allies hit (or even Limbo himself) would be placed into the Rift temporarily.

This new ability makes Limbo's 1st ability MUCH more consistent for a Limbo player to use and more welcoming for any ally that happens to be in the blast since the Rift this time is the Peek-A-Boo Rift.

 

THE ADJUSTMENT TO RIFT SURGE WITH THE RIFT PEEK-A-BOO STYLE

Rift Surge was an ability that was meant to give some reason to bring enemies into the Rift, but making Rifted enemies receive more damage. The previous Limbo Rework has altered this ability to spread the Rift similar to how Saryn's Spores would spread (at least in my point of view).

But with this Rift Peek-A-Boo, and since this idea is to keep the engagement in the Material Plane as much as possible, I suggest changing the ability:

 

LIMBO'S NEW RIFT SURGE

Quote

Limbo surges Rift Energy into the weapons of his and allies while in the Rift. The Rift surging power applied to weapons are dissipated if an affected ally is in the Material Plane.

• Could become either a self-buff for Limbo or an AOE-buff
• For each second in the Rift while Rift Surge is active, a player gain +XX% Damage buff additive to base Damage Mods [Max Damage Buff of XXX%]
• If a player with the Rift Surge Damage Buff is in the Material Plane, the damage buff dissipates by XX% of its total.
• [Rift Torrent Augment]: Provides a XX% chance on each weapon hit to gain X~XX% of Rift Surge Damage Buff.

 

The Rift Peek-A-Boo Style is one that simulates Limbo and his allies popping into the Rift to wait for the right moment to strike. Now with this Rift Surge, you have more reason to make that strike count as you gain that damage boost while in the Rift.

IMAGE/DIAGRAM DESCRIBING THE RIFT "PEEK-A-BOO" [RIFT SURGE] CONCEPT

The way the Rift Surge for this rework suggestion works is basically to have synergy with the Rift feature of the "Peek-A-Boo." Staying in the Rift Plane while Rift Surge is active charges damage for attacks, though the damage you charge in the Rift Plane will dissipate once you enter the Material Plane. Since a player affected by this Rift will be out of the Rift Plane if they attack/interact with objects, the Rift Surge's secondary effect kicks in. Transitioning from the Rift Plane to the Material Plane causes an explosion of the Rift's energy surged. This AOE explosion plays out as the CC portion of Rift Surge. As mentioned before, the popular CC for this Rift Surge was voted to be a knockdown effect instead of a stagger. There is also the possibility of Limbo gaining some +Shield each time he exits the Rift Plane like this.

How [Rift Torrent] Works with this?

Since [Rift Torrent] has always required enemies to get that damage boost, the AOE wave of this Rift Surge will count how many enemies are hit and multiply that number of hit enemies for the Extra Damage [Rift Torrent] provides. Of course, there can be other buff options for this Rift Surge's Augment.

How this Rift Surge works with Cataclysm?

Rift Surge stacks the damage boost as long as Limbo/allies are in the Rift. Since Cataclysm takes priority over all Rift-sending abilities and since Cataclysm works as being semi-permanently in the Rift, you can imagine the combo Cataclysm + Rift Surge in this form could work out as you will constantly be gaining the damage boost from Rift Surge. This type of Rift Surge could also give some life to [Cataclysm Continuum]. Not only would his combo with Rift Surge + Cataclysm Continuum keep the Cataclysm dome active longer, but the damage boost this Rift Surge provides make it that much faster to maintain the dome.

 

STASIS REMAINS...

Stasis could remain unchanged with this new Rift Peek-A-Boo Style. As to how Rift Blast would work with this:

Quote

RIFT BLAST with STASIS: Enemies hit with a Stasis Rift Blast are frozen in Stasis in the Material Plane, however at a shorter duration as opposed to Stasis with Cataclysm

A rather simple but understandable change for this new Rift Blast and Stasis combo.

 

INTERACTION SUGGESTION FOR RIFT BLAST AND CATACLYSM

Sometimes to make the most out of Cataclysm, you would want to have as many enemies inside it as you can. However, the shrinking of Cataclysm can be a drawback. There can be a way with this new Rift Blast ability to remedy this:

 

Quote

Targeting CATACLYSM with RIFT BLAST: Targeting Cataclysm with Rift Blast could cause Rift Blast's damage to all enemies in Cataclysm and also increases the dome of Cataclysm by X meter(s).

Using RIFT BLAST in CATACLYSM: Cataclysm grants Rift Blast Bonus Damage which stacks each time Rift Blast is cast INSIDE Cataclysm. Leaving the dome will reset this.

 

 

---

 

THE UPSIDES OF THIS RIFT "PEEK-A-BOO" LIMBO

• You would have a more public and team-friendly Limbo which works for any situation
• The Rift "Peek-A-Boo" could be a more less interruptible variant which provides protection when you aren't doing any action. But with the right setup (namely Rift Surge), that waiting to act could result in huge burst of damage.
• Plays out more like a Rift-Assassin
• This requires ONLY Cataclysm be the ability which can bring enemies into the Rift. Meaning more room and reason to use the other abilities for non-defensive missions.
• Rift Blast is a less-restrictive first ability for Limbo which can fulfill an offensive/supportive/defensive role depending on the situation
• Rift Surge gives some encouragement to attack in the Material Plane after surging power from the Rift Plane

 

 

[TLDR VERSION]

NEW RIFT MECHANIC: (Inspired by Ivara's Prowl) Attacking, hacking, opening doors/picking up packages will briefly force a Rifted ally into the Material Plane. Will then shortly place the individual back in the Rift Plane as long as the buff is active.

NEW 1ST: RIFT BLAST: Damages and knockdowns enemies. Sends allies into the Rift. Stasis would make enemies hit be temporarily in Stasis in the Material Plane but for a reduced duration.

NEW RIFT SURGE EFFECT: While in the Rift Plane, surges a stacking Damage Buff overtime. Dissipates the buff while in the Material Plane overtime. Leaving the Rift Plane with Rift Surge intact explodes in a radial burst CC-ing enemies around.

[OPTIONAL] NEW RIFT BLAST + CATACLYSM MECHANIC: Cataclysm offering stacking Bonus Damage to Rift Blast each time Rift Blast is activated in Cataclysm. Rift Blast hits all enemies in Cataclysm. Rift Blast targeting inside Cataclysm increases the dome's shrinking radius.

 

[ADDED IDEAS]

Quote

 

[WHEN LIMBO/ALLY EXISTS THE RIFT PLANE TO MATERIAL PLANE WHILE RIFT SURGE IS ACTIVE]:

• Limbo or an ally exiting the Rift Plane while Rift Surge is active pulses a large-range shockwave knocking down enemies within XX m
• Limbo or an ally also gains XXX Shield [Can grant Hyper Shield]

 

^{Credit to @LAD.Y}

 

Edited July 5, 2018 by FoxFX

[peterc3]

This is essentially a new frame. This isn't a rework.

[FoxFX]

1 minute ago, peterc3 said:

This is essentially a new frame. This isn't a rework.

 

Would you explain your reasoning for this?

[peterc3]

1 minute ago, FoxFX said:

 

Would you explain your reasoning for this?

You've left one ability the same. This is most of the work that goes into a new frame. Reworks work with mostly the same abilities, maybe a new idea for an underused/misused ability.

This is completely changing how Limbo plays. The frames are deeper than just the visuals.

[FoxFX]

3 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

You've left one ability the same. This is most of the work that goes into a new frame. Reworks work with mostly the same abilities, maybe a new idea for an underused/misused ability.

This is completely changing how Limbo plays. The frames are deeper than just the visuals.

 

And which ability ability am I leaving the same? I don't quite understand how this is a new Warframe.

[FoxFX]

EXPLAINING THE CURRENT PLAYSTYLE OF LIMBO AND WHAT THIS REWORK OF THE RIFT CAN DO

A common pattern I tend to see with Limbo plays is taking the advantage of their Rift Walk to run through many obstacles in the mission and using Cataclysm to protect key objectives while making sure Stasis is active to prevent threats from acting inside Cataclysm.

This is usually stating Limbo's use of his passive, his 2nd ability, and his 4th ability. Limbo's access to an unlimited Energy Regeneration effect through the Rift Plane makes this strategy very common.

It is to my perception that most of the confusion comes from the use of Limbo's 1st and 3rd abilities (Banish and Rift Surge). Before Limbo's Rework, Banish was less restrictive allowing him to cast the ability without requiring which plane the targets are in. Before Limbo's Rework, Rift Surge had increased the damage enemies take in the Rift (with Rift Surge increasing that damage received for each enemy trapped in the Rift).

Banish now requires a little more attention and management to use due to its restrictions that you can only cast it on an entity that is in the same plane as Limbo. Rift Surge at base primes affected enemies that are already in the Rift and works to keep enemies in the Rift while spreading it from enemy to enemy.

When it comes to Rift Surge it doesn't offer much UNLESS you have Rift Surge's Augment which kind of defeats the purpose of what Augments are suppose to do for some abilities. While using Cataclysm and Rift Surge, the spread of the Rift Surge won't be contained in the inside of Cataclysm all the time; it would spread to even the outside of Cataclysm and do so outside of the Limbo player's control. Stasis was one issue before, but the wild uncontrollable nature of Rift Surge tends to make some builds for Limbo either low in Duration/Range or just encourages solo play more often.

 

This is basically what I was trying to figure out with this Rift Peek-A-Boo style: to make the Rift more manageable for even public plays. Though it requires the new Limbo 1st ability and Rift Surge to no longer banish enemies to the Rift Plane, I feel it does nothing to change what Limbo really is. The best way to make Limbo's abilities more consistent and friendly team-oriented is to keep the enemy engagement in the Material Plane and limiting the "Divide and Conquer" aspect of Limbo to his Cataclysm ability. You still have a first ability that can Banish allies, though it won't banish enemies. In addition, this new change to Rift Surge gives a greater purpose to use the ability in the first place.

This rework's purpose is mostly to change how Limbo uses his powers of the Rift and the lore intact.

[PsiWarp]

While I quite like what Rift Peek-A-Boo seeks to accomplish, could there be a different design to it that doesn't alter Banish and Rift Surge to such a degree? Sure both of those abilities could use some tweaks, but part of the charm to Limbo is his ability to force his foes into his domain and reign supreme.

Keeping them in the material plane would remove this thematic implementation in a drastic way. I'm not sure I like that.

On the other hand, I can see how gameplay would become streamlined for squadmates while providing them with tactical benefits of the Rift. A dimensional veil cast over them negating incoming damage and providing energy regen per second, that lifts when they attack or need to interact with things, and envelops them again for protection afterward. It's an interesting take on how to eliminate the confusion and inconveniences involved with weapon attacks + pickups + objects.

[FoxFX]

4 hours ago, PsiWarp said:

While I quite like what Rift Peek-A-Boo seeks to accomplish, could there be a different design to it that doesn't alter Banish and Rift Surge to such a degree? Sure both of those abilities could use some tweaks, but part of the charm to Limbo is his ability to force his foes into his domain and reign supreme.

Keeping them in the material plane would remove this thematic implementation in a drastic way. I'm not sure I like that.

On the other hand, I can see how gameplay would become streamlined for squadmates while providing them with tactical benefits of the Rift. A dimensional veil cast over them negating incoming damage and providing energy regen per second, that lifts when they attack or need to interact with things, and envelops them again for protection afterward. It's an interesting take on how to eliminate the confusion and inconveniences involved with weapon attacks + pickups + objects.

 

You are right. This rework is suggesting that Limbo's 1st and 3rd abilities won't have their current ability to send enemies into the Rift Plane. This suggestion would seem like a great drastic change to Limbo's abilities.

On the other hand, there is still Limbo's Cataclysm which could remain the same with this rework idea and maintain the "Divide and Conquer" theme Limbo's Rift has. In addition, the tactical benefits of this Rift "Peek-A-Boo" can truly bring Limbo more into light. The new plans for Limbo's Cataclysm changes would work just as well with this too in the future where Stasis won't stop bullets anymore in the dome.

Consider this idea as one option for a more team-friendly Limbo. Though this idea forsakes the banishing power of Banish and Rift Surge, the trade-off is having a Limbo and Rift Mechanic that significantly reduces any conflict in Limbo's powers.

Consider this as an alternative for a much more team-friendly Limbo and Rift mechanic.

[FoxFX]

I'd like to think of an augment idea for Stasis namely something along the line related to its time-manipulating abilities. I recalled in the past that Limbo had a previous passive ability that allowed increase Reload Speed while in the Rift. I wouldn't go too far to think of an Augment with the effect: "Increases Limbo's reload and holster speed while Stasis is active."

I'll have to think a bit more carefully on a future Augment for Stasis.

[FoxFX]

FURTHER TALK ON THE PROPOSED FIRST ABILITY: RIFT BLAST

As mentioned in the OP:

Limbo summons Rift Energy to the Material Plane as a blast attack.

• Maintains its conical zone AOE
• Enemies hit will receive Impact damage and will be knocked down [Could have the Impact damage it does increase further]
• Allies hit will be temporarily in the Rift Plane with a Duration based on how the Limbo is modded for Duration
• [With Augment Haven] Allies hit by the impact of Rift Blast will receive the Health Recovery

I have been considering bringing up an idea of improving the effect of Rift Blast in accordance to if Limbo casts it in the Rift Plane or the Material Plane. While damage could be a candidate determining this, I have been thinking of where Limbo casts Rift Blast from determine either of the following:

• The AOE range of Rift Blast
• Changing the damage type of Rift Blast based on the location Limbo casts from
  • Material Plane: Impact Damage
  • Rift Plane: Slash Damage

Other notable things I think Rift Blast could have is a charging mechanic for a more concentrated attack.

But these are mostly on a more offensive approach for Limbo's new 1st ability. I can understand that the majority of the community is not open to such a change for this Warframe.

[FoxFX]

FURTHER TALK ON THE PROPOSED CHANGE TO THIRD ABILITY: RIFT SURGE

Before the Limbo Rework, Rift Surge was a simple Damage self-buff which did little to nothing for Limbo in the past. Rift Surge always has its "needing more enemies to gain more damage" effect as well.

I critique that outside of the augment, Limbo's third ability needed a bit more kick into what it can do currently.

With the Rift "Peek-A-Boo" style, I took a different direction and suggested the ability to surge Rift power into the Warframe's weapons while in the Rift. Doing so would make it even more beneficial for the pop in and pop out style of the Rift "Peek-A-Boo."

I feel that simple damage buff stereotype could be changed with Limbo's Rift Surge and its augment in this case though. While Critical Damage/Chance is something I could see as a possible replacement for Rift Surge, I would like to think more on that later.

[FoxFX]

CRITIQUE ON WHAT WAS DONE RIGHT ALL THIS TIME WITH LIMBO AND WHAT WAS MISSED

One of the greatest success I see in Limbo's creation was how his playstyle was implemented. Being an entity that can exist in two separate plans and move in and out of them was something. Overall, the idea of having a Warframe pull enemies into his domain to conquer them, to play at one's play-field, felt something unique an well thought out.

But as time went by, we started to see the complaints of Limbo players being "trollish" or highly disruptive. Sometimes these are simply the hindsight from the players, but most of the time it isn't. Warframe has always been designed to be a cooperative multiplayer game, and a fast-paced one. Eventually, I felt that this "fighting in your own domain" gameplay of Limbo played against what this game was all about.

However, I can see this game inching closer to a solution where Limbo would be truly welcoming to both organized and public games. We just need to find the right formula.

[Snuggles_The_Sea_Urchin]

I mean, right now Limbo is the god-king of CC. You just gotta be aware of where things are so enemies don't just get crowded up on the edges of Cataclysm, and become a pain to kill.
Seems pretty good to me.

I do wish that Rift Surge without the augment wasn't so lame, though. It's honestly just redundant without it unless you're low-duration.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Snuggles_The_Sea_Urchin

[FoxFX]

3 hours ago, Snuggles_The_Sea_Urchin said:

I mean, right now Limbo is the god-king of CC. You just gotta be aware of where things are so enemies don't just get crowded up on the edges of Cataclysm, and become a pain to kill.
Seems pretty good to me.

I do wish that Rift Surge without the augment wasn't so lame, though. It's honestly just redundant without it unless you're low-duration.

 

This is true. And yet, this is mostly thanks to the Cataclysm + Stasis combo. This rework suggestion thread is addressing Limbo's 1st and 3rd abilities and giving in some better impact and uses for them along with the description of the Rift "Peek-A-Boo" style.

[FoxFX]

I'd like to get some more input on this Peek-A-Boo Rift idea and the rest of the Limbo Rework. Most importantly, I'd like to know of your experiences with Rift Surge and how it has consistently served you as a Limbo player.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

1 hour ago, FoxFX said:

I'd like to get some more input on this Peek-A-Boo Rift idea and the rest of the Limbo Rework. Most importantly, I'd like to know of your experiences with Rift Surge and how it has consistently served you as a Limbo player.

Rift surge, without the augment has had very little use for me. 

Thematically, i love that it spreads the rift for me like Spores. In practice, it's just an additional way of making my team mad, because it involves phasing out targets, then phasing even more when it's triggered. And it feels redundant with his first power which already has such a huge cone that makes it hard to control who you rift. It would've been better used with his old 1, when it was single target, so you would have more ways to rift groups. 

For now, it's just a delivery method for the augment. That's disappointing. 

[Snuggles_The_Sea_Urchin]

Limbo sorta needs the Rift Surge augment if he wants to do any serious damage.

Either that augment needs to be natural on Rift Surge, and change the mod to something else; or Rift Surge needs to be completely changed into a new ability and give the damage up as a natural bonus for enemies being in the rift.

Though that'd more or less kill the low-duration build, if people still use it now.

[FoxFX]

I hoped that this suggestion I've made to Rift Surge along with this Rift "Peek-A-Boo" style could remedy a bit of what the current problems Limbo's 3rd ability can cause in game. Though I am researching a bit more on granting this ability some sort of AOE component to it.

[FoxFX]

On 2018-06-13 at 9:46 PM, peterc3 said:

This is essentially a new frame. This isn't a rework.

I took more time to consider your declaration on this rework idea.

In retrospect, this is not truly a new Warframe idea which you would consider to be so. As this rework concept mostly focuses on adjusting Limbo's Rift passive and his 1st and 3rd ability.

Other than that, I discovered that though the new change to Cataclysm makes the ability easier for team play to work with, there is still the issue about the mechanics of the Rift itself.

[LAD.Y]

As a Limbo main i don't actually hate this idea. I'm iffy on my opinion on the interaction of rift surge as that with the augment allows Limbo to buff himself DRASTICALLY and would take a pretty decent hit if was changed to not bring enemies into the rift plane (f I'm understanding this right). I think your Rift Blast idea is what I'm most interested in, it would still be able to work with the haven augment (as that's how your peek-a-boo would work) so there'd be no need to remove that augment mod, and that peek-a-boo mechanic on allies would fairly mitigate limbo hate without making him OP as while attacking that ally would still be open to damage. It's a nice middle ground that still interacts with stasis which is good and retains synergy while also upping some of his DPS in a unique way.

[FoxFX]

5 hours ago, LAD.Y said:

As a Limbo main i don't actually hate this idea. I'm iffy on my opinion on the interaction of rift surge as that with the augment allows Limbo to buff himself DRASTICALLY and would take a pretty decent hit if was changed to not bring enemies into the rift plane (f I'm understanding this right). I think your Rift Blast idea is what I'm most interested in, it would still be able to work with the haven augment (as that's how your peek-a-boo would work) so there'd be no need to remove that augment mod, and that peek-a-boo mechanic on allies would fairly mitigate limbo hate without making him OP as while attacking that ally would still be open to damage. It's a nice middle ground that still interacts with stasis which is good and retains synergy while also upping some of his DPS in a unique way.

 

I'm glad to see an opinion on this from a Limbo main.

The current idea I had for Rift Surge was to give it a bit more attention to it and have a more rewarding presence to using the whole "Pee-A-Boo" Style of the Rift. Though I am still considering other options for Rift Surge.

[LAD.Y]

3 hours ago, FoxFX said:

 

I'm glad to see an opinion on this from a Limbo main.

The current idea I had for Rift Surge was to give it a bit more attention to it and have a more rewarding presence to using the whole "Pee-A-Boo" Style of the Rift. Though I am still considering other options for Rift Surge.

rift surge is in a weird place. the augment makes it a skill that gives an incredible boon to Limbo while acting on his divide and conquer mechanic in a way that gives a lot of control. Though in hindsight looking at your suggestion for rift surge wouldn't be BAD necessarily, it brings rift surge back to it's pre-rework status, the problem (if you see it that way) is that it's potentially capped in way current rift surge isn't. Rift surge (with the augment) currently is a decaying buff that gives Limbo extra damage based on the amount of enemies effected. But potentially more importantly is the banish component which is actually really important in solo play (where I mostly play). I would not be able to run Mot for over an hour if rift surge didn't banish enemies into the rift plane because the moment a nullifier touches cataclysm without rift surge on those enemies all rift effects are lost, as Limbo's rift is closed and everything returns to the physical plane, losing that component of Limbo's control would be a HUGE nerf, that auto banish has saved my life many a times and would drastically change his play style in a way changing his 1 would not.

EDIT: A potential middle ground for the ability would be: Give rift surge a flat damage increase in the buff (ally excessible or limbo only idrc), allow it to still stack on enemies within the rift. If effecting allies, don't let them get the rifted enemy buff as well that can stay Limbo only, or it can stay so allies can only access the extra percentage in the rift where as Limbo can use it on either plane. Remove the component where it banishes enemies outside catacyslm, but retain the ability to auto banish those who had been in the bubble predetonation. There's still problems with that as potentially Cata would have to be changed to stay at a fixed radius instead of shrinking as I think part of the reason for it doing the radial banish is BECAUSE Cata doesn't stay the same size throughout the ability, but that could potentially be a solution that works.

Edited June 18, 2018 by LAD.Y

[FoxFX]

11 hours ago, LAD.Y said:

rift surge is in a weird place. the augment makes it a skill that gives an incredible boon to Limbo while acting on his divide and conquer mechanic in a way that gives a lot of control. Though in hindsight looking at your suggestion for rift surge wouldn't be BAD necessarily, it brings rift surge back to it's pre-rework status, the problem (if you see it that way) is that it's potentially capped in way current rift surge isn't. Rift surge (with the augment) currently is a decaying buff that gives Limbo extra damage based on the amount of enemies effected. But potentially more importantly is the banish component which is actually really important in solo play (where I mostly play). I would not be able to run Mot for over an hour if rift surge didn't banish enemies into the rift plane because the moment a nullifier touches cataclysm without rift surge on those enemies all rift effects are lost, as Limbo's rift is closed and everything returns to the physical plane, losing that component of Limbo's control would be a HUGE nerf, that auto banish has saved my life many a times and would drastically change his play style in a way changing his 1 would not. 

EDIT: A potential middle ground for the ability would be: Give rift surge a flat damage increase in the buff (ally excessible or limbo only idrc), allow it to still stack on enemies within the rift. If effecting allies, don't let them get the rifted enemy buff as well that can stay Limbo only, or it can stay so allies can only access the extra percentage in the rift where as Limbo can use it on either plane. Remove the component where it banishes enemies outside catacyslm, but retain the ability to auto banish those who had been in the bubble predetonation. There's still problems with that as potentially Cata would have to be changed to stay at a fixed radius instead of shrinking as I think part of the reason for it doing the radial banish is BECAUSE Cata doesn't stay the same size throughout the ability, but that could potentially be a solution that works. 

 

I understand. With the way you use Rift Surge currently, it appears to have made Limbo a bit more effective solo since it has some control/CC component to it with the Spore-spreading auto-Banish.

Namely, I was concerned about Limbo having practically 3 ways to Banish enemies into the Rift and felt that knocking some of that down for a utility-like defensive aspect to the Rift would be a better direction since Cataclysm would remain unchanged in this rework and that the "Peek-A-Boo" Rift acts like a protection-buff when the ally does not attack pushing them back into the Rift.

There are a few things I wanted to experiment an idea with this rework for both some more defensive measures and CC:

 

Quote

 

• [WHEN LIMBO/ALLY EXISTS THE RIFT PLANE TO MATERIAL PLANE WHILE RIFT SURGE IS ACTIVE]:
  • Limbo or an ally exiting the Rift Plane while Rift Surge is active pulses a large-range shockwave staggering enemies for a few seconds within XX m
  • Limbo or an ally also gains XXX Shield [Can grant Hyper Shield]

 

 

It is experimental, but it shows that Rift Surge while in concept surges allies with Rift Energy creates a more violent exit from the Rift Plane into the Material Plane. The violent shockwave created upon exiting the Rift Plane while Rift Surge is active will cause an AOE stagger effect on enemies. In addition to that is the Shield gain that can protect Limbo and his allies from a longer-ranged opponent.

I will get back to a few more things on this.

Edited June 19, 2018 by FoxFX

[FoxFX]

ADDITIONAL IDEA TO ADD INTO THE RIFT SURGE BLAST IDEA IN RELATION TO ITS AUGMENT

With how Rift Torrent works requiring a # of enemies affected by it, with the idea I presented:

Quote

Limbo or an ally exiting the Rift Plane while Rift Surge is active pulses a large-range shockwave staggering enemies for a few seconds within XX m

The Augment could still retain its effect based on how many enemies are staggered by the shockwave upon entering the Material Plane.

[LAD.Y]

2 hours ago, FoxFX said:

ADDITIONAL IDEA TO ADD INTO THE RIFT SURGE BLAST IDEA IN RELATION TO ITS AUGMENT

With how Rift Torrent works requiring a # of enemies affected by it, with the idea I presented:

The Augment could still retain its effect based on how many enemies are staggered by the shockwave upon entering the Material Plane.

I think that idea could potentially work. Depending on the shockwave radius and make it knockdown versus stagger. Stagger would be a good place to start but stagger is what happens when stasis ends initially which as a Limbo player I can tell you only lasts long enough for you to recast stasis the moment it goes off at like 0 which is why the radial banish is useful if your cataclysm gets forcibly closed, since recasting both abilities definitely takes longer than a stagger proc.