[Warframe Rework Suggestion] Limbo: Rift "Peek-A-Boo" Style {New Rift Feature, Changes to 1st and 3d Power}

[FoxFX]

11 hours ago, (XB1)AntiMomentum said:

Yeah as a Limbo main I'm not opposed to changing Banish at all. Especially if it could rift/unrift in between planes like it used to, or even just knock them down from a different plane. This would allow Limbo more wiggle room when he comes out of the rift if needed. Other than using it to rift specific targets, I only use it to knockdown enemies already inside my cataclysm for a little extra damage.

However, I don't want Rift Surge (and Rift Torrent) being changed and that's where I'm going to have to personally disagree. It provides a significant damage buff for Limbo. It is truly quite a bit! He gets great damage in missions like Interception or Excavation (like when you solo an excavator while your team does another. Or just straight solo). Even with slightly negative power strength. I think the only change rift surge needs is to be able to hold it's ability button to uncast it before it's duration ends. This would give him greater control over sending enemies out of the rift. I do stress "hold" because if just 1 new enemy walks into the rift you can recast it for way more damage just by pressing, not holding it. We could even take this one step further and cause Rift Surge to forcefully unbanish everything when it's manually uncast (that's not in cataclysm of course). This way if you banish multiple targets in different directions or in different areas you can just cast/uncast rift surge and they are back out of the rift (and not frozen somewhere across the map in stasis which happens in excavation sometimes). If the duration ends naturally or a surged enemy is killed it still acts normally.

To forcefully unbanish with rift surge would also get rid of the issues of accidentally using rift surge right as the interception is done or nearly done to kill the final enemies. It would also be useful for any other accidental banishes or rift surge banishes.

 

I understand the damage potential Rift Torrent provides for Limbo, which is why I have added some of this damage buffing in this suggested Rift Surge's base effect. I will explain more about what this Rift Surge's effect does in visual context soon.

Though I do feel I need to ask the question:

Are you against any changes to Rift Surge solely because of the Augment and what it provides?

[realmzjetter]

While I do enjoy the hit and run style of your ideas, it fees like your rework is less "Lets make Limbo more fun" and more "Lets try and troll proof Limbo".

Limbo's current kit is fixated around bringing enemies into the rift where Limbo exerts his control over them, he is the master of the rift after all;. He's not there to damage directly with his abilities, rather he's there to control parts of the battlefield without disturbing other parts. Or disturbing them should he need to. Your version places Limbo into a more nuke/buff role, rather than a crowd control one.

Some things I wondered while reading this, and I apologize if you went over these and I simple didn't see it.

• How does Limbo initially enter the rift in your new system? Does he still "roll" into it as he does now, since it is not an activated ability like Ivara's prowl, or is he always in the rift when not committed to an action?
• How does Stasis work with the "Rift Blast" if "Rift Blast" no longer sends enemies into the rift? Is the Stasis ability, in addition to stopping time during a Cataclysm, more of a self buff that gives extra functionality to "Rift Blast"?
• From what you've listed it seems that Cataclysm's functionality is also just a reuse of Khora's Strangledome.

I can't really say much of anything about Rift Surge as you've largely just tossed it out and brought back the original version of it, largely getting rid of any interesting functionality.

Your rework makes him a nuker/buffer, or in general damage dealer. I personally prefer Limbo as a controlling character. If I want my abilities to do all the work I play Saryn or Ember, or Mesa. I'd have to say that, in general I don't like your rework ideas. Not for limbo. I think this idea would work much better with it's own frame. Something more like Ash, for example. Limbo's design doesn't exactly scream "assassin".

 

If this really is more about a style of play you'd like Limbo to have, you can do a "peek-a-boo" style limbo by simply dodging more.

[FoxFX]

8 hours ago, realmzjetter said:

While I do enjoy the hit and run style of your ideas, it fees like your rework is less "Lets make Limbo more fun" and more "Lets try and troll proof Limbo".

Limbo's current kit is fixated around bringing enemies into the rift where Limbo exerts his control over them, he is the master of the rift after all;. He's not there to damage directly with his abilities, rather he's there to control parts of the battlefield without disturbing other parts. Or disturbing them should he need to. Your version places Limbo into a more nuke/buff role, rather than a crowd control one.

Some things I wondered while reading this, and I apologize if you went over these and I simple didn't see it.

• How does Limbo initially enter the rift in your new system? Does he still "roll" into it as he does now, since it is not an activated ability like Ivara's prowl, or is he always in the rift when not committed to an action?
• How does Stasis work with the "Rift Blast" if "Rift Blast" no longer sends enemies into the rift? Is the Stasis ability, in addition to stopping time during a Cataclysm, more of a self buff that gives extra functionality to "Rift Blast"?
• From what you've listed it seems that Cataclysm's functionality is also just a reuse of Khora's Strangledome.

I can't really say much of anything about Rift Surge as you've largely just tossed it out and brought back the original version of it, largely getting rid of any interesting functionality.

Your rework makes him a nuker/buffer, or in general damage dealer. I personally prefer Limbo as a controlling character. If I want my abilities to do all the work I play Saryn or Ember, or Mesa. I'd have to say that, in general I don't like your rework ideas. Not for limbo. I think this idea would work much better with it's own frame. Something more like Ash, for example. Limbo's design doesn't exactly scream "assassin".

 

If this really is more about a style of play you'd like Limbo to have, you can do a "peek-a-boo" style limbo by simply dodging more.

 

• Limbo can enter the Rift passively like he normally does. The way the Rift in the game works for Limbo seems to be more of a permanent-code version of the Rift unlike the Rift coded into the effect of Banish and Cataclysm. Though it can go either way with this rework suggestion: The need to Rift Dash or to have it as an actual passive for Limbo.
• I've mention this in the OP. "Rift Blast" is like a Banish that isn't restrictive by which plane Limbo is in and it doesn't send enemies into the Rift Plane. With Stasis, enemies hit by Rift Blast + Stasis would both damage and freeze enemies in the Material Plane. I imagined for balancing purposes to have the Stasis-affected enemies in the Material Plane to have a slightly shorter duration compared to enemies in the Rift Plane, but I may drop that idea off with the way Stasis works now.
• The ideas I posted for both Cataclysm/Stasis are more or less supplementary ideas that could go along with the new 1st/3rd and the added feature suggested for the Rift. They could be left out entirely. I only added these based on presenting this idea in Discord and jotting down what the other comments made about this. However, I may stick to having each Rift Blast activated in Cataclysm extend the dome's radius.

You are correct on Limbo's current theme being master of the Rift and putting enemies in and out of the Rift with is powers, which is why I stated that this rework was not to touch the current effect of Stasis and Cataclysm at all. I was more in the line of crafting an experimental way to have the transition from the Rift Plane and the Material Plane to be much smoother and more team-friendly in this game.

I did enjoy Limbo and try to see how Limbo is months ago, but when the recent Sacrifice patch came and [DE] pulled away Stasis's affect to stop ally projectiles I was both surprised but I also quite understood why they would go that direction. The thematic powers of Limbo's Plane-shifting is quite powerful and all, but back then I did realize how much Limbos were snared simply at how much a Limbo an exert control over his own teammates whether it was in the hands of a good/bad Limbo player. The potential for a Limbo to slow down missions are still possible with him and the mechanics of the Rift.

I can't say this is the best way possible for a more team-friendly Limbo. Granted you can have Limbo as is if you wish or you could have Limbo reworked the way @PsiWarp made threads on him with. I still would like to present any possible option just in case.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

9 hours ago, realmzjetter said:

Limbo's design doesn't exactly scream "assassin".

His current design doesn't.

His original Banish, being single target and work on both planes made him a perfect assassin. I'd phase myself out and while my team was wiping out trash mobs I'd look for the toughest mofo in the group and yank him into the rift. As he was getting up from the guaranteed knockdown I'd drawback my bow and put one in his head. If he actually survived I'd banish him from my plane, re position and repeat.  

DE is willing, and has changed Frame play style themes as it is necessary for the sake of the game. The introduction of Stasis drastically changed the way he plays today compared to the frantic duelist style he used originally because even in his own realm he could be one-shotted by anything that looked sideways at him. That's likely why is always associated with a pistol and rapier, even to this day.

[FoxFX]

I have an image ready to visualize what the Rift Surge suggestion is all about in this thread. Will just need some time to prepare the text for it.

[(XBOX)AntiMomentum]

On 2018-06-25 at 8:02 AM, FoxFX said:

 

I understand the damage potential Rift Torrent provides for Limbo, which is why I have added some of this damage buffing in this suggested Rift Surge's base effect. I will explain more about what this Rift Surge's effect does in visual context soon.

Though I do feel I need to ask the question:

Are you against any changes to Rift Surge solely because of the Augment and what it provides?

 I am against changes to Rift Surge mostly because of the CROWD CONTROL it provides.

Other than holding to uncast and unrift enemies I'd rather it not be changed. I find myself carrying into the level of hundreds because of it without having a super OP weapon setup, just a decent one. It must supply no less damage potential. Or less ability to safely recast staticlysm as I regularly rely on rift surge itself to do so at  higher levels (well beyond sortie level) with duration or not. It's actually kind of essential to do so at higher levels and I feel like this thread isn't addressing that. I kind of thought Rift Surge's intended purpose was to provide CC and with range that's EXACTLY what it does. The damage is just a bonus 😕 

In other words, it must not effect enemies any differently but allow better synergy with allies or you ARE sacrificing its power for limbo in not only damage but most importantly for limbo, CC as well.

Believe it or not but enemies can actually start moving faster than stasis alone can contain it at higher levels, and only rift surge and power range can compensate for that on cataclysm, which current limbo provides. Stasis is NOT absolute. It just ticks at a VERY fast rate. If you don't believe me try going past 30-40 excavators on hieracon solo without rift surge and I can guarantee you an excavator will get shot by an enemy that is in both stasis and cataclysm if you haven't killed them already. Near 40 thats excavator destoryed in one shot unless you either kill them first or use rift surge which gives you more damage anyways and keep them frozen out of cataclysm. In fact against Grineer you should see this result even faster if you don't use rift surge solo.

I have solod wave 75 akkad with Limbo because of Rift Surge as it is. Without the CC form Rift Surge and range as it is right now I would not have been able to do it, and without the damage buff from rift torrent as it is now I would not have been able to do it in the same amount of time. I'm not saying it's impossible otherwise, I'm saying if Rift Surge had been changed without any other ability being changed I would NOT have been able to do it at the time i did. 😕

You either make Stasis absolute or you don't nerf Rift Surge CC (or dmg potential) at all. 


It's like an alternative Cataclysm and I'm really not exaggerating. In some ways it's even better. Like the fact that it has more damage potential than Frost 😕
 All of that's what you're giving up with this.

Edited June 27, 2018 by (XB1)AntiMomentum

[FoxFX]

IMAGE/DIAGRAM DESCRIBING THE RIFT "PEEK-A-BOO" [RIFT SURGE] CONCEPT

The way the Rift Surge for this rework suggestion works is basically to have synergy with the Rift feature of the "Peek-A-Boo." Staying in the Rift Plane while Rift Surge is active charges damage for attacks, though the damage you charge in the Rift Plane will dissipate once you enter the Material Plane. Since a player affected by this Rift will be out of the Rift Plane if they attack/interact with objects, the Rift Surge's secondary effect kicks in. Transitioning from the Rift Plane to the Material Plane causes an explosion of the Rift's energy surged. This AOE explosion plays out as the CC portion of Rift Surge. As mentioned before, the popular CC for this Rift Surge was voted to be a knockdown effect instead of a stagger. There is also the possibility of Limbo gaining some +Shield each time he exits the Rift Plane like this.

How [Rift Torrent] Works with this?

Since [Rift Torrent] has always required enemies to get that damage boost, the AOE wave of this Rift Surge will count how many enemies are hit and multiply that number of hit enemies for the Extra Damage [Rift Torrent] provides. Of course, there can be other buff options for this Rift Surge's Augment.

How this Rift Surge works with Cataclysm?

Rift Surge stacks the damage boost as long as Limbo/allies are in the Rift. Since Cataclysm takes priority over all Rift-sending abilities and since Cataclysm works as being semi-permanently in the Rift, you can imagine the combo Cataclysm + Rift Surge in this form could work out as you will constantly be gaining the damage boost from Rift Surge. This type of Rift Surge could also give some life to [Cataclysm Continuum]. Not only would his combo with Rift Surge + Cataclysm Continuum keep the Cataclysm dome active longer, but the damage boost this Rift Surge provides make it that much faster to maintain the dome.

[FoxFX]

On 2018-06-27 at 3:21 AM, (XB1)AntiMomentum said:

 I am against changes to Rift Surge mostly because of the CROWD CONTROL it provides.

Other than holding to uncast and unrift enemies I'd rather it not be changed. I find myself carrying into the level of hundreds because of it without having a super OP weapon setup, just a decent one. It must supply no less damage potential. Or less ability to safely recast staticlysm as I regularly rely on rift surge itself to do so at  higher levels (well beyond sortie level) with duration or not. It's actually kind of essential to do so at higher levels and I feel like this thread isn't addressing that. I kind of thought Rift Surge's intended purpose was to provide CC and with range that's EXACTLY what it does. The damage is just a bonus 😕 

In other words, it must not effect enemies any differently but allow better synergy with allies or you ARE sacrificing its power for limbo in not only damage but most importantly for limbo, CC as well.

Believe it or not but enemies can actually start moving faster than stasis alone can contain it at higher levels, and only rift surge and power range can compensate for that on cataclysm, which current limbo provides. Stasis is NOT absolute. It just ticks at a VERY fast rate. If you don't believe me try going past 30-40 excavators on hieracon solo without rift surge and I can guarantee you an excavator will get shot by an enemy that is in both stasis and cataclysm if you haven't killed them already. Near 40 thats excavator destoryed in one shot unless you either kill them first or use rift surge which gives you more damage anyways and keep them frozen out of cataclysm. In fact against Grineer you should see this result even faster if you don't use rift surge solo.

I have solod wave 75 akkad with Limbo because of Rift Surge as it is. Without the CC form Rift Surge and range as it is right now I would not have been able to do it, and without the damage buff from rift torrent as it is now I would not have been able to do it in the same amount of time. I'm not saying it's impossible otherwise, I'm saying if Rift Surge had been changed without any other ability being changed I would NOT have been able to do it at the time i did. 😕

You either make Stasis absolute or you don't nerf Rift Surge CC (or dmg potential) at all. 


It's like an alternative Cataclysm and I'm really not exaggerating. In some ways it's even better. Like the fact that it has more damage potential than Frost 😕
 All of that's what you're giving up with this.

If it is the crowd control that is worrying about this new Rift Surge, I have made a new diagram to describe more in-depth on what I had in mind.

Other than that, I would like to get back into seeing what have others say about the current Rift Surge before responding.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

I like the idea of having Rift Surge provide CC and shields upon transitioning, and definitely like the idea of benefiting from more prudent strikes from the damage buff.

Due to players passively bouncing in and out of the Rift while they are banished and taking action, would there be a limit on how frequently the Rift Surge CC would trigger to prevent semi-permanent stun-locking by moving in and out of the rift? Or is that solved by the "surge" energy being consumed through transitioning to the physical plane?

Knowing players in this game I was just imagining the Limbo jumping in and out without staying physical long enough to need to attack while everyone else just killed the permanently grounded enemies.

[FoxFX]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

I like the idea of having Rift Surge provide CC and shields upon transitioning, and definitely like the idea of benefiting from more prudent strikes from the damage buff.

Due to players passively bouncing in and out of the Rift while they are banished and taking action, would there be a limit on how frequently the Rift Surge CC would trigger to prevent semi-permanent stun-locking by moving in and out of the rift? Or is that solved by the "surge" energy being consumed through transitioning to the physical plane?

Knowing players in this game I was just imagining the Limbo jumping in and out without staying physical long enough to need to attack while everyone else just killed the permanently grounded enemies.

 

I think either option could work with this Rift Surge.

Before the recent Stasis changes, Stasis would halt the Energy Regeneration the Rift had. It could even be possible to turn Rift Surge into a toggle ability as well.

I guess it all depends on how the community would like it balanced. Though I may lean more onto giving the CC-effect of Rift Surge the cooldown.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

@Azamagon asked in another thread, would the peek-a-boo in combat also trigger from ability usage?

It would come up frequently, and have it's own benefits and drawbacks. If abilities don't trigger it would it be too powerful? If they do, how does it work with toggles?

[FoxFX]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

@Azamagon asked in another thread, would the peek-a-boo in combat also trigger from ability usage? 

It would come up frequently, and have it's own benefits and drawbacks. If abilities don't trigger it would it be too powerful? If they do, how does it work with toggles? 

I'd like to keep the thought of Warframe abilities still hitting enemies in the same/opposite Plane.

For now, I would stick to having this Peek-A-Boo feature work only for Primary/Secondary/Melee weapon attacks.

Warframes using channeled abilities (such as Absorb, Sound Quake & Hysteria) do not gain energy toward their upkeep [source from Warframe Wiki]. So with this being true, I think it should still be fairly balanced depending if a Warframe is using instant-cast Damage Type Abilities or Channeling Abilities.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

@FoxFX, agreed. 

Thanks for the clarification. 

[Kronxito]

Limbo is fine and easy to understand as he is right now.  No changes needed, in my opinion.  People just need to understand rift mechanics.

I play Limbo with all his features and I dont disturb anybody in the team. He is almost a GOD. And it took only 4 or 5 days for me to get used to him!!  IT IS VERY EASY MAN!!!  and he is EXTREMELY POWERFUL for solo or team playing.

Why do you want to change Rift mechanics??.... because it is annoying for you? Because you are not good at playing with his current mechanics??

I am sorry I dont agree with OP as I consider this as a cry post (in my worthless opinion).

EDIT:  The only change he needed for team play was removing bullet freeze.  Now he is perfect. 

EDIT2:  Just read this link about the Rift, it is very damn easy to understand.  And "git gud" man:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Rift_Plane

Edited July 2, 2018 by AnGeL_KRoM

[mactrent]

3 hours ago, AnGeL_KRoM said:

because it is annoying for you? Because you are not good at playing with his current mechanics??

Even if subjective, being annoyed by your own frame's abilities is reason enough to stop playing it, or to put up with it but ask for changes.  Being annoyed by someone else's frame's abilities is, too, but very few frames are so broadly annoying to so many people ("more polarizing than a lifetime supply of forma," I think Reb said), so it might warrant taking a look, you might think.

3 hours ago, AnGeL_KRoM said:

People just need to understand rift mechanics.

"People" -> "Limbo and all of his teammates, ever" unless you're going to minimize your kit by limiting range/duration, or simply limiting which abilities you even use.

3 hours ago, AnGeL_KRoM said:

I play Limbo with all his features and I dont disturb anybody in the team.

Some players don't use weapons at all, opting to use Exalted Blade, Landslide, Regulators, etc exclusively.  Most do not.  Most players in some situations are more than willing to stand in one area and shoot or smack only things that come into it, or that suddenly gain the visual indicators of shoot-ability outside of it.  Most players even have this as an option because the Limbo on their team chose to leave the Cataclysm up in a strategic place, not because they happen to be playing Warframe.  By the same token, most players are able to shoot enemies without the Rift indicator by exiting the Cataclysm, because most Limbo players choose not to practically perma-Rift everything on the tile.  That you made these choices correctly in all circumstances is exemplary, but if you had failed to do so, it would be your teammates who lost out on the fun, which seems like a poor design feature imo.

If you managed to keep from disturbing all of your teammates in all situations (or even just on par with most other frames), I congratulate you.  You've played Limbo in a squad well.  You've also not made the most of the viable (and, subjectively, more fun for me) options that Limbo has to offer, unless you did it solo, or with a damage-ability-only pre-made team.

That Limbo can be played well does not mean it's not also easy to play him poorly.  You simply won't be able to educate every Limbo user, let alone their potential teammates.  I'd rather changes like OP's be made than he be left as-is, but that's just my opinion added to a large pile of them.

[Kronxito]

8 minutes ago, mactrent said:

Even if subjective, being annoyed by your own frame's abilities is reason enough to stop playing it, or to put up with it but ask for changes.  Being annoyed by someone else's frame's abilities is, too, but very few frames are so broadly annoying to so many people ("more polarizing than a lifetime supply of forma," I think Reb said), so it might warrant taking a look, you might think.

"People" -> "Limbo and all of his teammates, ever" unless you're going to minimize your kit by limiting range/duration, or simply limiting which abilities you even use.

Some players don't use weapons at all, opting to use Exalted Blade, Landslide, Regulators, etc exclusively.  Most do not.  Most players in some situations are more than willing to stand in one area and shoot or smack only things that come into it, or that suddenly gain the visual indicators of shoot-ability outside of it.  Most players even have this as an option because the Limbo on their team chose to leave the Cataclysm up in a strategic place, not because they happen to be playing Warframe.  By the same token, most players are able to shoot enemies without the Rift indicator by exiting the Cataclysm, because most Limbo players choose not to practically perma-Rift everything on the tile.  That you made these choices correctly in all circumstances is exemplary, but if you had failed to do so, it would be your teammates who lost out on the fun, which seems like a poor design feature imo.

If you managed to keep from disturbing all of your teammates in all situations (or even just on par with most other frames), I congratulate you.  You've played Limbo in a squad well.  You've also not made the most of the viable (and, subjectively, more fun for me) options that Limbo has to offer, unless you did it solo, or with a damage-ability-only pre-made team.

That Limbo can be played well does not mean it's not also easy to play him poorly.  You simply won't be able to educate every Limbo user, let alone their potential teammates.  I'd rather changes like OP's be made than he be left as-is, but that's just my opinion added to a large pile of them.

Howl all you want hater. Limbo wont be changed. I really doubt they change Limbo for u to be more comfortable.

It is a damn different plane of existence. There must be isolation between planes yes or yes. Deal with it.

Edited July 2, 2018 by AnGeL_KRoM

[mactrent]

2 minutes ago, AnGeL_KRoM said:

Howl all you want hater. Limbo wont be changed. 

I don't hate him, I just want to play him the awesome way without being hated myself.  My preferred style of Limbo is anathema to most squads as-is (in a way that can't really be said of any other frame), so I end up playing Frost-Plus, "that annoying guy who gets through all the enemies/obstacles first", or going solo.  Though you may unfortunately be right due to dev time constraints, I will indeed continue to advocate for what I consider to be improvement.  And you keep doing you.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

24 minutes ago, AnGeL_KRoM said:

Howl all you want hater. Limbo wont be changed. I really doubt they change Limbo for u to be more comfortable.

This comment makes me question if you've played a game called Warframe. 

Not only did they fully rework Limbo previously, but they've also very specifically changed Stasis... for players to "be more comfortable". These kind of changes have happened countless times in this game when something was considered not fun or very disruptive to the squad. They don't always get it right, but they've frequently gone back for additional reworks after gauging the current perception of the players. 

You may not like this rework idea, and that's your right but your hyperbole hasn't proven anything. Before his original rework there were frequent posts about rift interaction being a problem. Then frequent posts about Stasis because it was even more disruptive. Now that Stasis was changed you can find several new posts a day about the problems with rift interactions again. It's not fine as it is, and it's not just an issue of understanding him. Not every frame is capable of killing enemies with abilities alone, and when banish and rift surge are used away from cataclysm it's very possible to completely prevent players from participating in combat if they weren't banished too. 

[Kronxito]

43 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

This comment makes me question if you've played a game called Warframe. 

Not only did they fully rework Limbo previously, but they've also very specifically changed Stasis... for players to "be more comfortable". These kind of changes have happened countless times in this game when something was considered not fun or very disruptive to the squad. They don't always get it right, but they've frequently gone back for additional reworks after gauging the current perception of the players. 

You may not like this rework idea, and that's your right but your hyperbole hasn't proven anything. Before his original rework there were frequent posts about rift interaction being a problem. Then frequent posts about Stasis because it was even more disruptive. Now that Stasis was changed you can find several new posts a day about the problems with rift interactions again. It's not fine as it is, and it's not just an issue of understanding him. Not every frame is capable of killing enemies with abilities alone, and when banish and rift surge are used away from cataclysm it's very possible to completely prevent players from participating in combat if they weren't banished too. 

I think he is fine now. I admit it had problems before his rework. But now he is nice.

Maybe.... Being able to deactivate rift surge and pulling all enemies out of the rift would fix what u say. It would be like a reset.

Edited July 2, 2018 by AnGeL_KRoM

[FoxFX]

I've updated the OP with the diagram explaining further on the suggested Rift Surge. I apologize that I didn't get to do this sooner as I had been recently busy over these past few days.

I would like to answer a few more questions concerning this rework idea I have, but for the time being I have been working to plan a thread to discuss rework ideas on Nyx...

Edited July 4, 2018 by FoxFX

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

3 hours ago, FoxFX said:

plan a thread to discuss rework ideas on Nyx

I'm looking forward to it. Another one of my mains that need to catch up with the modern warframe game. 

[CreamedSoda]

This looks overly complicated to the point where I can't even understand the direction of where you are going with this. So there is 3 different rift planes in this? Abilities should be relatively easy to understand and need to be explained in a paragraph as to what it does. Also I am not a fan of the #1 ability at all, it'll just be Banshees 1 minus the somewhat useful armor strip augment for it. So basically a really bad CC that has zero scaling and has to be instacast for me to even consider to use. Rift Surge is basically Rift Torrent but for everybody? On top of that how does this help Limbo with his teammates besides surge, 1 should be a full on support ability if you are really all about that instead of a low tier CC.

 

Am I missing something here, this looks like a lot for just two mechanic changes and a bunch of weird cycles somebody new to Limbo would not be able to figure out without a wiki.

Edited July 4, 2018 by Whitestrake0

[CreamedSoda]

However I wanted to go specifically after this 3 that you made. So I'll be putting a more detailed response separately. 

You call this "Peek-a-boo" limbo, so you have rift surge stack damage while in the rift correct? Why would I ever wanna ever leave the rift, there is no benefit from that ability of me leaving the rift as long as I have cataclysm and my insane energy regeneration. Absolutely no reason for me to leave the rift as I could always keep my damage buff and my teammates get it too. So the 3 actually goes against what you wanted to do with this rework which is a Peek-A-Boo tactic, the only way to fix this is if you left and that damage buff was doubled for a short moment and then you lose all of that damage buff. Otherwise I'll just plop my self in cataclysm the whole game.

Edited July 4, 2018 by Whitestrake0

[FoxFX]

14 hours ago, Whitestrake0 said:

This looks overly complicated to the point where I can't even understand the direction of where you are going with this. So there is 3 different rift planes in this? Abilities should be relatively easy to understand and need to be explained in a paragraph as to what it does. Also I am not a fan of the #1 ability at all, it'll just be Banshees 1 minus the somewhat useful armor strip augment for it. So basically a really bad CC that has zero scaling and has to be instacast for me to even consider to use. Rift Surge is basically Rift Torrent but for everybody? On top of that how does this help Limbo with his teammates besides surge, 1 should be a full on support ability if you are really all about that instead of a low tier CC.

 

Am I missing something here, this looks like a lot for just two mechanic changes and a bunch of weird cycles somebody new to Limbo would not be able to figure out without a wiki.

 

14 hours ago, Whitestrake0 said:

However I wanted to go specifically after this 3 that you made. So I'll be putting a more detailed response separately. 

You call this "Peek-a-boo" limbo, so you have rift surge stack damage while in the rift correct? Why would I ever wanna ever leave the rift, there is no benefit from that ability of me leaving the rift as long as I have cataclysm and my insane energy regeneration. Absolutely no reason for me to leave the rift as I could always keep my damage buff and my teammates get it too. So the 3 actually goes against what you wanted to do with this rework which is a Peek-A-Boo tactic, the only way to fix this is if you left and that damage buff was doubled for a short moment and then you lose all of that damage buff. Otherwise I'll just plop my self in cataclysm the whole game. 

 

When it comes to my threads,  take time to research and ask around about some of the issues players have with Warframes and/or their mechanics. With Limbo, the issues surrounding him are rather complex but there is currently a recent thread that shows some concerns about him:

With the Rift, you do gain the invulnerability from enemy attacks of the opposite plane along with the Energy Regeneration. But sometimes when a Limbo puts an enemy in the Rift or an ally/teammate in the Rift, they are unable to damage them in the opposite plane unless through Damage-type Abilities (which not all Warframes have a Damage Ability or an ability that does that much damage all the time). The Rift also can lockdown teams from accessing consoles and picking up important objects for the mission. Of course these hindrances are more apparent in the hands of whoever is using that Limbo, the danger of it is still there to potentially slowing down the mission altogether.

Which is why I have suggested this:

Quote

NEW RIFT MECHANIC: (Inspired by Ivara's Prowl) Attacking, hacking, opening doors/picking up packages will briefly force a Rifted ally into the Material Plane. Will then shortly place the individual back in the Rift Plane as long as the buff is active.

NEW 1ST: RIFT BLAST: Damages and knockdowns enemies. Sends allies into the Rift. Stasis would make enemies hit be temporarily in Stasis in the Material Plane but for a reduced duration.

NEW RIFT SURGE EFFECT: While in the Rift Plane, surges a stacking Damage Buff overtime. Dissipates the buff while in the Material Plane overtime. Leaving the Rift Plane with Rift Surge intact explodes in a radial burst CC-ing enemies around.

 

The idea here is made so that Limbos could still stay in the Rift and use their 2/4, but also to give more strength to Limbo's 1st and 3rd abilities while do one important thing: keeping the battle and engagement in the Material Plane. This whole idea is inspired by the mechanics of Ivara's Prowl ability. Do you know what happens when Ivara uses a loud weapon while Prowl is active?

[CreamedSoda]

7 hours ago, FoxFX said:

The idea here is made so that Limbos could still stay in the Rift and use their 2/4, but also to give more strength to Limbo's 1st and 3rd abilities while do one important thing: keeping the battle and engagement in the Material Plane. This whole idea is inspired by the mechanics of Ivara's Prowl ability. Do you know what happens when Ivara uses a loud weapon while Prowl is active?

Battle and engagement on the Material Plane, you lost all my interest in that remark. Not only does that Trash Limbos unique style of playing the game where you have your own realm to control and can freely engage whenever you want. Don't want him to be a low tier CC that will be thrown out the window, Limbo won't be getting another rework for a long time though so I suppose I am safe. 

I've already made a suggestion to just turn banish into a support ability, we don't need to completely total his entire realm idea cause people don't like the idea that in actual late game content they have to think. Limbo rn is already very useful in a team, even more so when you have team members that compliment him well. Mesa, Banshee, Saryn and Volt. As a example you can put Mesa into the rift completely nullifying the dangers of standing still from peacemaker and she can still kill everything, as well as regening energy between groups of energy.

 

Edit: After reading some more of the thread, this really does look like a "I am trying to troll proof Limbo" instead of trying to make him more fun.

Edited July 5, 2018 by Whitestrake0