I think it's about time we made shotguns with less than 100% status chance not completely useless

[ShiraHagane]

2 hours ago, Buttaface said:

Nah, won't bother, you made ridiculous claims in your OP, were called on it, and edited them out. Fair enough.

Even so, the "might as well be 0" comment that remains is incorrect. What you are failing to realize is that if a shotgun "only" has 90% chance of applying one status effect with each instance of firing, it will have a lesser, but still very significant chance of applying multiple status effects with each instance of firing. That's not "might as well be 0"

Shotgun status is an interesting game mechanic, is well-balanced, and is fine as is.

I edited it before you even commented

and the post is about the huge difference between 100% status and 90% status, not how low 90% actually is

Edited June 23, 2018 by ShiraHagane

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

it is annoying... a shotgun with 99.9% status chance and 10 pellets will only proc a status effect 9.99% of the time on each pellet...

yet bump it to 100% and every pellet always procs status.. this makes some shotguns really innately powerful, others super strong if you have a status riven, and the rest more or less pointless to focus on status with in comparison...

the jump from only a few pellets procing to all of them proccing is too big of a gap and shows that there is some bad math..

 

one of two things should happen.

A: Status chance needs to be applied to each pellet indivutally, allowing even a 90% or so status chance on a shotgun to be effective like every other weapon in the game.

B: Status chance needs to display the effective status chance per pellet, so a tigris displays its (roughly) 4% true base chance and mods increase that. this also would remove the ability to reach 100% on any shotgun.

 

simply put, right now the game calculates it in a fashion that is infuriatingly misleading. shotguns only ever display their true status chance when you reach 100%.

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

okay, not sure if they've been mentioned:

 

kohm, astilla and plasmor. none of these shotguns can reach 100% status without specific mods(nano, for those not in the know, and that requires a power cast and aiming.) but let me tell you why your claim is BS.

 

all three of these treat status differently than pellet shotguns.

 

the astilla and plasmor both only fire a single slug, therefor are amazing as hybrid weapons, but can also be built for raw status and do amazingly well(the astilla less so due to how it functions, but thats a different matter.)

 

Kohm? well, this sucker treats status like a rifle. why? it also fires a single slug at initial trigger pull, and despite adding more rounds(its spool up feature) per stage, due to how fast it fires and how many rounds it has, it may as well have 100% status(not truly but thats not my point.)

 

wanna know what else these 3 have that they also share with the hek series? amazing-decent crit chance. hunter munitions loves these shotguns.

[DjKaplis]

Kohm 11% crit with 2.0 mult... but if you can get crits from it with specciffic setups...yea, even more power to what it already has.

Due to limited mod space (and 2 different rivens) can have it built for pure damage or 100% status and both builds are awesome.

 

I agree that status chance per pellet should be an exponential function tho... (for 99% status chance even with like 12 pellets each pellet should have around 80% or more status if the function is exponential...if I thought it really neccessary, I would look up the exact statystics formula that represents how these probabilities are calculated but you can be sure it isn't just simple division (99%, 10 pellets, definitely not 9,9% per pellet))

[Hoangviet1996]

On 2018-06-21 at 2:56 PM, dopey_opi said:

if it makes you feel any better, the rest of his argument hinged on status being essential to shotgun usefulness too.

my Sancti Tigris would beg to differ, but it's too busy laughing.

Sancti Tigris after the last changes can now reach 100% status too 🙂 which is nice

[Dark_Chroma_Prime]

On 2018-06-21 at 9:37 AM, ShiraHagane said:

Now let's take the recently added Pyrana Prime; with all 4 dual stat mods, it comes up to a respectable 40.8% status chance, which would be pretty good on any other automatic, slash-based weapon.  But because the pyrana has the highest pellet count of any shotgun, in the end it only has a pitiful 7% status chance per pellet

The pyrana is NOT a status shotgun, ever looked at the crit chance and dmg of it?

[Guest]

Man, I look at this thread and all I can do is laugh. OP is not wrong in claiming that the difference between a shotgun that has 100% and 99% status has a huge difference in proc ability. Also, the status chance isn't divided by the number of pellets. Whoever thought of that is completely crazy. No, status chance is calculated by chance to proc one status if ALL pellets connect to the target. So the calculation of status by pellet is done by multiplications of the chance to NOT proc to each other, to give you the chance that a shotgun does not proc. Like the following:

Shotgun with 10 pellets, 50% status - this would give you a status chance not proccing of the 10th root of 50%, aka 0.5^(1/10) = ~0.933. This means the status chance PER pellet is only (1 - 0.933)*100  = ~6.7% chance PER pellet to proc. Which is abysmal. Everyone knows the multishot calculations and how they affect status chance, so there is no point in me going for that. This is also why Multishot can't reach 100% status, because the base stat chance per pellet is unchanged.

However, consider the case of using status mods alone to bring the shotgun up to say, 90% status chance. There is only a chance for the whole shot not to proc at 10%. Assuming the same 10 pellet case, that leads to a chance to not proc of the 10th root of 10%, aka 0.1^(1/10) = ~0.794. It means the stat chance per pellet is still a rather poor (1 - 0.794)*100 = ~ 20.6% chance to proc per pellet.

Even a 99% stat chance on a 10 pellet shotgun gives a proc rate of only {1 - [(1-0.99)^(1/10)]}*100 = ~ 39.8% chance per pellet to proc, which is no longer that bad, but still way less than 100% per pellet that the 1% change in status chance will make.

Hence, it can be said the status chance calculation of a shotgun per pellet is {1 - [(1-X)^(1/Y)]}*100 (the multiplication of 100 is conversion to percentage), where X is the proc rate in the UI. So in the case of 100, as the proc rate is 1, 1-1=0, and 0^n (where n is any number) is 0. This makes the proc rate per pellet 1-0 = 1.

Therefore, if a Shotgun cannot reach 100% status, it would be truly pointless to even bother building status chance on it. I think the calculations shown here should completely make sense, but also show that shotguns which fire one pellet (Astilla, Plasmor etc) are not in need of reaching 100% status chance. Now, for those who are arguing in favor of guns like the Vaykor Hek and Hek ... raw damage only can take you so far. Exchange even ONE of the dual stat mods on a Tigris, and suddenly it becomes a pellet gun against high armor. Not saying anything against such guns if you enjoy them, but objectively speaking, they are simply worse off than 100% status shotguns which can shoot armor off in one blast if modded for corrosive, or proc a more than 12 slash procs in one shot.

Shotgun usefulness indeed hinges on 100% status ... once you reach the point where raw damage just does not cut it anymore (yes, there is a point in Sortie where my Cycron can kill faster than my Opticor thanks to status). That point probably doesn't come even in Sortie tier unless one is facing augmented armor/augmented shield/elemental resist/physical resist. 

Edited June 25, 2018 by Guest

[Eljureo]

This problem is as old as status shotguns.. 99% and 100% should be roughly the same. Until they are, this is a lame implementation of gameplay mechanic.

Shotguns with low status exist that are quite good, but all 100% should not have this magic associated with it. It is OP. 

[Wesgile]

Probably need to wait for the status effects rework.

[DjKaplis]

Well, there wasn't such huge difference between 99% and 100% status for shotguns IF the in game listed status chance would be status chance per pellet.

But currently we have status chance per shot. And in that case the calculations shown by @Datam4ss apply. 1% changes a lot. With current calculations:

99% status gives you 36,9% per pellet

99,1% gives 37,6%

99,2% gives 38,3%

etc..

99,9% gives 49,9% per pellet

and 100% gives 100% per pellet... so in conclusion except for specciffic shotguns that don't have as high initial pellet count you really shouldn't build for status unless you can get that status chance in game show 100%...

 

Edited June 26, 2018 by DjKaplis

[Riqsha]

Boy, you guys are THICCCC in the head.

He's absolutely right, if there's a mechanic in the game that changes a weapon stat that drastically (i.e. between 90% and 100%), it should just be presented in its final form.

 

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by Riqsha

[JarodDempsey]

wow i had heard murmurings about how bad status was on shotguns that couldnt reach 100% but i never read into it until now. It's absolutely ridiculous that a 1% decrease in status chance lowers the average procs by almost 80% when using just 20 pellets. Makes me glad i've never invested into any shotguns, seems completely senseless and broken imo. 

[Vox_Preliator]

This is hilarious.

I can't even begin to point out all the problems with this thread, the least of which is that it is very clear that OP isn't "just asking for the status per pellet to be listed accurately."

[(PSN)cdzbrbr]

On 2018-06-21 at 4:51 AM, GinKenshin said:

well people, looks like the hek is useless, because mr.brains here said so...

might as well sell it 

Sell Pyrana and/or Pyrana prime too, they suck according to mr.brains. :crylaugh:

If they can't kill the high lv 155 eximus napal he summons on simulacrum, it sucks.

Hope your learned your lesson.

Edited August 17, 2018 by (PS4)cdzbrbr