Warframe's direction, nerfs, buffs and difficulty

[Buttaface]

To be a challenging, engaging game, WF needs to rein in radial AOE skills and use Harrow (who needs tweaks, but whose powers are a near perfect model of what character powers should be) as the model for frame powers, I.e. powers that are good, but not subject to trivializing game content via almost afk spam. They could do this with target caps, range limits, and more challenging game modes that disable lots of AOE cheeze or alter it materially, Conclave but PvE.

Every frame power in the game needs to be reexamined along the lines of "how does this power affect the game experience of teammates?" and "does this power trivialize content of any kind with one or two button presses?" Every power that "fails" this analysis should be changed, nerfed, whatever.

They won't likely do this because as others point out, they make their money on bads.

[StabbyTentacles]

Warframe, has a direction?

[Vox_Preliator]

7 hours ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

Yes because you know me so well, and I just complain so dreadfully often.

They obviously aren't too afraid because in the last 6 months they've consistently done things people beg them not to do.  Console UI, PC UI having no labels, constant nerfs to frames that don't even need it... the list goes on.  They don't give a crap what long term players think - they care more about scaring away new players.

Why do you think they did the whole UI change of hiding names and numbers?  I'll give you a hint because Steve has said it about 500 times throughout the years on devstreams.  New players are scared of the complexity - so despite all the backlash about the pisspoor direction of the UI, they still shoved it on us all.  It was a decision they literally made for people who don't even play the game to begin with.  

Why did they nerf Ember?  Because it wasn't fun for level MR1s to be riding on the coatails of nuke Embers.  But realistically Ember was never good beyond like level 80, so the nerf wasn't to make us stop trivializing hard content - it was so we would stop trivializing trivial content - all to appease new players.  Forget that fact people posting math about how it would still take 50 ticks of WoF to kill certain level 80 enemies and why this overall equated to a massive nef - nope, let's just make her monumentally worse because we shove all our missions and loot into low level tiers and then wonder why MR25s are going there and nuking it...  

DE can't diagnose problems properly, is a big issue - but they also unequivocally care more about the new players and always have.  They basically outright state this many times throughout the years.    

I don't know why you think DE is afraid of alienating people like me when their actions clearly lean to the exact opposite conclusion.  They don't give a crap about players like me, as evidenced by the fact they keep doing things we ask them not to.  

Wow, like all of this is wrong.

[Vox_Preliator]

help how do i computer

Edited June 26, 2018 by Vox_Preliator

[Checht]

On 2018-06-24 at 5:06 PM, VanFanel1980mx said:

I wonder if people really ask for crippled and handicapped frames vs bullet sponges instead of enemy compositions and a more versatile AI

Given how we can just spam large AoE CC skills (e.g. Radial Blind, Discharge, Radial Disarm, Avalanche, Bastille, etc.) or any invis skills, please tell me how more advanced AI or more variety of enemy compositions would help make the game harder in any meaningful way. They would just be turned to brain-dead targets waiting to be shot regardless. Unless DE do something about the spammability of skills and the energy economy, "smart" enemies wouldn't provide any endgame challenge at all. The current "challenge" Warframe can provide is only wait for enemy damage to scale up to the point that it can one-shot you, or superficially make the "challenge" to kill fast (and not to survive enemy attacks), such as ESO.

Edited June 26, 2018 by Checht

[RealPandemonium]

11 hours ago, (PS4)lagrue said:

Yes because you know me so well, and I just complain so dreadfully often.

They obviously aren't too afraid because in the last 6 months they've consistently done things people beg them not to do.  Console UI, PC UI having no labels, constant nerfs to frames that don't even need it... the list goes on.  They don't give a crap what long term players think - they care more about scaring away new players.

Why do you think they did the whole UI change of hiding names and numbers?  I'll give you a hint because Steve has said it about 500 times throughout the years on devstreams.  New players are scared of the complexity - so despite all the backlash about the pisspoor direction of the UI, they still shoved it on us all.  It was a decision they literally made for people who don't even play the game to begin with.  

Why did they nerf Ember?  Because it wasn't fun for level MR1s to be riding on the coatails of nuke Embers.  But realistically Ember was never good beyond like level 80, so the nerf wasn't to make us stop trivializing hard content - it was so we would stop trivializing trivial content - all to appease new players.  Forget that fact people posting math about how it would still take 50 ticks of WoF to kill certain level 80 enemies and why this overall equated to a massive nef - nope, let's just make her monumentally worse because we shove all our missions and loot into low level tiers and then wonder why MR25s are going there and nuking it...  

DE can't diagnose problems properly, is a big issue - but they also unequivocally care more about the new players and always have.  They basically outright state this many times throughout the years.    

I don't know why you think DE is afraid of alienating people like me when their actions clearly lean to the exact opposite conclusion.  They don't give a crap about players like me, as evidenced by the fact they keep doing things we ask them not to.  

You're complaining sanctimoniously now, so I use that as the evidence for that remark.

Some of those things are WTF design choices, while others are more nuanced situations that are being oversimplified as vague "nerfs" by the people complaining.

I think the hiding of names and numbers are in an attempt to show more simultaneously on the same screen without making it too cluttered.  I don't really like the UI changes, but they will hopefully take feedback and make things more clear.  I don't think they did this to "dumb down" the game for noobies; IDK where you're drawing that conclusion from.

WoF's energy efficiency was nerfed while its top-end damage was increased.  I'm a fan of these changes, though I would like to see more incentive for micromanaging WoF than this simple trade-off, as well as a fundamental change to Firequake to make it more interesting/useful.  Ember can comfortably solo into the 150s, as @Djego27 can attest from personal experience.  The idea that Ember is weak in higher levels is a meme propagated by unsavvy players who were missing the point of her design.

DE has historically been not savvy at their own game, but they have usage statistics at their disposal and are hesitant to act rashly when addressing design issues, which can be good and bad.  I don't think DE is biased toward new players necessarily, but they are definitely biased toward new content since hype is what attracts customers.  

DE is afraid of alienating players like you and many other opinionated veterans.  Imagine what would happen if Damage 3.0 was rolled out and frame powers were revisited en masse; "I have to re-forma all my gear!" "My Rivens are worthless now!" "why do I have to change my build?!" "Everything is weak and sucks now!" etc...  This makes fixing Warframe at its core even more risky on top of being a huge time and effort investment that doesn't make them fast cash.  They unintentionally bred a beast out of their golden goose, and there's little prospect of going back now.

[Fallen_Echo]

7 hours ago, Buttaface said:

Every frame power in the game needs to be reexamined along the lines of "how does this power affect the game experience of teammates?" and "does this power trivialize content of any kind with one or two button presses?" Every power that "fails" this analysis should be changed, nerfed, whatever.

The first part would throw out atleast 80% of our powers while the last would get rid of another 10%.

We would end up with only the trash skills not getting any rework since they dont really affect the battlefield therefore cant trivialize the game and cant annoy teammates.

Octavia, nidus, trinity, saryn, excalibur migth as well could be deleted.

Warframe in its essence is a horde shooter power fantasy. The madness what everybody complains about like the need to spam powers, mass CC the battlefield and create literal nuke cannons out of ordinary weapons was born from the need to tackle the scaling.

Its a symptom to a problem what is long due for a fix. If the scaling would been fixed we could go on and make sure the powers fit the area but with the current way its impossible.

[RealPandemonium]

9 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

The first part would throw out atleast 80% of our powers while the last would get rid of another 10%.

We would end up with only the trash skills not getting any rework since they dont really affect the battlefield therefore cant trivialize the game and cant annoy teammates.

Octavia, nidus, trinity, saryn, excalibur migth as well could be deleted.

Warframe in its essence is a horde shooter power fantasy. The madness what everybody complains about like the need to spam powers, mass CC the battlefield and create literal nuke cannons out of ordinary weapons was born from the need to tackle the scaling.

Its a symptom to a problem what is long due for a fix. If the scaling would been fixed we could go on and make sure the powers fit the area but with the current way its impossible.

Killing hordes is satisfying because the odds are stacked against you and you need to figure out how to deal with it.  Spamming a few buttons to kill everything on the map isn't a horde shooter; it's Cookie Clicker.  

It's telling that most of what you would consider "trash skills" are usually more interesting or at least more amusing to use than the massive AOE nukes and permaCC that have become staples in the game.  

[ganjou234]

20 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

Killing hordes is satisfying because the odds are stacked against you and you need to figure out how to deal with it.  Spamming a few buttons to kill everything on the map isn't a horde shooter; it's Cookie Clicker.  

It's telling that most of what you would consider "trash skills" are usually more interesting or at least more amusing to use than the massive AOE nukes and permaCC that have become staples in the game.  

I agree with this.The purpose of a horde shooter is to provide almost insurmountable odds (hordes) and the player somehow survives and beats it (L4D1-2, KF 1-2).

The only reason why people are vouching for MUH UBER SPAMMABLE AOE NUKE CC ULTS is because of the grind. Spammable AOE nukes that are omnidirectional are obviously the most efficient solution to the grind. The faster you clear maps the faster one can farm. Directional shields/barriers/cover become useless to players since they would rather nuke a map than take cover behind one (when was the last time that somebody said that Atlas' Tectonics skill was useful?). Why have Vitality and Steelfber when MUH CC SPAM makes enemies deal 0 damage. Why have guns, daggers, and swords when we have walking nukes? Might as well remove your primary, secondary, and melee when going in a mission..

Thus Warframe loses its identity as a shooter and becomes press X to nuke.There's no need for one to make decisions, just press 4.

One could argue that there are AOE weapons that also have the "Nuke" effect, but those clear a room at most and not the whole map of every/any kind of enemy (Light or Heavy), and have ammunition constrains that are reliant at having a surviving Sentinel to have the best results, and the player actually has to take aim and reload.

If we nerf/restrict the use of AOE NUKE CC spam then DE could probably buff the drop rates, and fix enemy scaling since the difficulty would have increased.

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, RealPandemonium said:

Killing hordes is satisfying because the odds are stacked against you and you need to figure out how to deal with it.  Spamming a few buttons to kill everything on the map isn't a horde shooter; it's Cookie Clicker.  

It's telling that most of what you would consider "trash skills" are usually more interesting or at least more amusing to use than the massive AOE nukes and permaCC that have become staples in the game.  

I disagree, i play horde shooters to massacre hordes and not because the odds are against me.

When hundreds of corpses pile up around me after a massacre, when you feel that you are not locked up in a room with demons but demons are locked up in a room with you, that is when a horde shooter becomes satisfying.

This game was never designed to be a killing floor or l4d experience where you must survive and your chances are thin, its not even designed to be like the borderlands series where you and your enemies are almost equally dangerous, this is a game where an immortal god is sent down to mere mortals to carry out judgement, to murder everything what moves.

 

As for trash skills just tell me how everyday useful are skills like nyx physics bolts, wukong cloudwalker or titanias lantern. These skills and many others have terrible flaws and design choices what makes you question if the energy is worth using on them.

I never claimed that only mass CC's and aoe nukes are useable, plenty of skills dont do any of that and yet they are considered worthy pf casting but some skill are simply not worth it. There are even skills what are only used because they have augments but all those what dont even have augments are left on the skillbar collecting dust.

[Buttaface]

10 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

The first part would throw out atleast 80% of our powers while the last would get rid of another 10%.

We would end up with only the trash skills not getting any rework since they dont really affect the battlefield therefore cant trivialize the game and cant annoy teammates.

Octavia, nidus, trinity, saryn, excalibur migth as well could be deleted.

Warframe in its essence is a horde shooter power fantasy. The madness what everybody complains about like the need to spam powers, mass CC the battlefield and create literal nuke cannons out of ordinary weapons was born from the need to tackle the scaling.

Its a symptom to a problem what is long due for a fix. If the scaling would been fixed we could go on and make sure the powers fit the area but with the current way its impossible.

No, it wouldn't "throw out" anything. As stated, the skills could remain largely as is, but with range limits, target caps, diminishing returns, a few game modes that limit powers for players who want a challenge with meaningful rewards and cheeze could remain as is in most of the other missions.

The general skill level of WF's player base is abysmal atm, maybe the worst of any game I've played in nearly 20 years of online gaming. Admittedly, this is partially due to greater mass popularity, a good thing. But it's also largely due to poor, overgenerous power design and lack of meaningful limits on those powers. Players all start off the right way, with a need to learn a balance of frame powers, weapon aim, parkour and build tactics. Then, near instantly, the game makes available "magic wands" that obviate the need to actually learn the game mechanics, aim and parkour, and maintain solid team play to complete the content. This is poor design.

Who would argue that old Bladestorm should be brought back? or blinds that didn't require LOS? or old WOF? Very few, and that treatment needs to be done to -lots- of skills. However, with Khora and the Saryn rework (OP rework more accurately) they just keep making things worse in the AOE cheeze department, and the reward is a game full of mid and high MR noobs that make public modes of play either boring, annoying, or sometimes an outright nightmare.

"Don't PUG" is a bad answer. The quality of any coop game is IME determined by the overall experience in the random coop modes, and in WF, that experience is more likely bad than good. Needn't be this way.

[(PSN)dA_BLoK_iS_hOt]

On 2018-06-24 at 5:25 PM, (PS4)lagrue said:

No we don't and that's why they keep consistently ignoring all feedback and doing as they'll do anyway. 

Armor scaling is busted and has been for years - but oh boy we better nerf Ember into oblivion because she nukes level 12 enemies.  

Trust me - the difficulty balancing in this game is not reflective of what most people want or enjoy - it's just what we have because nobody at DE wants to sit down and do anything about it - and there's a good reason for that:

DE doesn't focus to invest in the players who invested in them long term because we're the minority.  Point blank.  DE caters their updates and generally most content towards what I would call toe dippers.  You know that kid who sticks his toes in the pool, but kinda never jumps in?  Well DE LOVES players like that.  Players like that stop by, eat up minimal server space, enjoy the game a bit - maybe give it a good YT review and then move on.  But those players are also cash cows.  They'll buy things to 'catch up' - play 10-12 hours, then you never see them again - but if they spend $20 - or god forbid buy a prime access, well that's great for DE.  And it's just one more registered loser they can use as a talking point at cons/expos.  

The day DE decides to release an update geared at endgame and balance - they're going to be left scratching their heads at how that draws new players in.  It's the same reason they had to specifically tailor the bounty system in PoE to be friendly to all tiers of players and they discussed that openly.  They have a hard time developing content for the end game player - versus content that can be accessed by anybody and their dog because one draws more money and players - whereas the other simply does not.  That's why Warframe's endgame is essentially a myth at this point.  

DE is developing at like an MR0-8 range - they could care less about the rest of us.  
 

I love this post lol. This is exactly Warframe at it's finest. I now rarely even bother to meet new people on the game because in a few weeks, the'll just disappear. I've friended hundreds of people in the past 3 years and most of them barely play anymore. There are very few people who play up 1k+ hrs and still keep trucking along. I see so many people with less than a few hundred hrs played, leave and never come back. I don't even bother to recruit anymore since xxmynameisxx will be gone in a week or two after I recruit him/her. But oh well.

[Fallen_Echo]

2 hours ago, Buttaface said:

No, it wouldn't "throw out" anything. As stated, the skills could remain largely as is, but with range limits, target caps, diminishing returns, a few game modes that limit powers for players who want a challenge with meaningful rewards and cheeze could remain as is in most of the other missions.

The general skill level of WF's player base is abysmal atm, maybe the worst of any game I've played in nearly 20 years of online gaming. Admittedly, this is partially due to greater mass popularity, a good thing. But it's also largely due to poor, overgenerous power design and lack of meaningful limits on those powers. Players all start off the right way, with a need to learn a balance of frame powers, weapon aim, parkour and build tactics. Then, near instantly, the game makes available "magic wands" that obviate the need to actually learn the game mechanics, aim and parkour, and maintain solid team play to complete the content. This is poor design.

Who would argue that old Bladestorm should be brought back? or blinds that didn't require LOS? or old WOF? Very few, and that treatment needs to be done to -lots- of skills. However, with Khora and the Saryn rework (OP rework more accurately) they just keep making things worse in the AOE cheeze department, and the reward is a game full of mid and high MR noobs that make public modes of play either boring, annoying, or sometimes an outright nightmare.

"Don't PUG" is a bad answer. The quality of any coop game is IME determined by the overall experience in the random coop modes, and in WF, that experience is more likely bad than good. Needn't be this way.

Range limits and target caps? Do you know that the old wof had target caps and its range was technically limited like every range based skill ingame. Now it has increasing energy drain too and the range got even lower.

In this game it doesnt matter how good your aim is, how good you are with parkour, how much strategy and tactical thinking you can bring in when the enemies have:

1. Scaling damage without a top point
2. Scaling health and armor without a top point
3. Scaling accuracy what turns the regular grunt into an aimbot sniper
4. Hivemind to make sure they always know your exact position
5. Switch system so no matter how hard you parkour always the closest and least obstructed enemy attacks you
6. Wallhacks starting from lv80
7. Aimbot hitscan grapples and without mods unavoidable slam/aoe attacks
8. The same damage system we have what means that at high level a slash proc means death

The skill level is low in the general area because the devs somehow managed to design weapons for lv80+ areas while they intend the playfield to never go higher than lv60. Look at the operators from a panic button they were changed into immortal spectres so death can be avoided more "easily" at lower levels. The whole game is designed around lv40 areas while every weapon and skill is made to be able to use efficienty at lv 100 areas and when something becomes too efficient they nerf it.

The whole game fits exactly what you expect from a power fantasy and thats one of the key element why so many love this game.

Hell if you look at the negative reviews on steam you can generally find the following reasons why someone doesnt recommend this game:

1. Extreme grind
2. Extremely lacking tutorial and information about basic core gameplay
3. No end game
4. Mastery rank restrictions are annoying
5. Terrible matchmaking system (how it connect and not with who)
6. Bugs on bugs on bugs
7. The content is the same across the whole starchart
8. Still open beta

And soo on i may have found 3-4 reviews what complained about the power fantasy aspect but thats the least important problem.

 

 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

On 2018-06-25 at 7:58 AM, Enialyx said:

I have about 900 hours of gametime, and still find entire areas of the game that are pretty much unexplored. For example, I'm just getting into Eidolon hunting and Arcanes, and have just one Primed mod. Just a few weapons are adequately forma'ed, and none of the frames. I'm also missing some final frames and a great chunk of the weapons.

Now, you could argue that I'm just a "mid-level" player. However, this is where 900 hours has got me. It's definitely not "toe-dipping".

 It's simply the game leeching as much of your time as possible to slow down your progression. It's not 900 hours of content. It's maybe 20-40 hours of progression stretched over 900 hours, locked behind poor drop chances for loot, and unreasonably long timers for everything: for rewards, for gameplay, for trade, for crafting.  

Edited June 26, 2018 by AperoBeltaTwo

[RealPandemonium]

27 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Range limits and target caps? Do you know that the old wof had target caps and its range was technically limited like every range based skill ingame. Now it has increasing energy drain too and the range got even lower.

In this game it doesnt matter how good your aim is, how good you are with parkour, how much strategy and tactical thinking you can bring in when the enemies have:

1. Scaling damage without a top point
2. Scaling health and armor without a top point
3. Scaling accuracy what turns the regular grunt into an aimbot sniper
4. Hivemind to make sure they always know your exact position
5. Switch system so no matter how hard you parkour always the closest and least obstructed enemy attacks you
6. Wallhacks starting from lv80
7. Aimbot hitscan grapples and without mods unavoidable slam/aoe attacks
8. The same damage system we have what means that at high level a slash proc means death

Lol, WoF got more expensive but you can just recast it every 10 seconds and voila you have your old WoF back.

1. The top point is whatever the mission calls for.  You can stay in a mission for hours but no one is forcing you.

2. Same as above.

3. Accuracy doesn't really scale that much but IMO accuracy should go back to how it used to be before Archwing screwed everything up.

4. Lots of games have this; not a huge deal.  Bigger problem is when you are Host and all enemies have prime directive to destroy your lower intestinal tract.

5. I'm not sure what you mean by this.

6. Please explain what you mean by this.

7. You can dodge all of these things and also roll through them to ignore the knockdown entirely.  Grapples can easily be spoofed and are not hitscan, either.

8. You have to be in the 150+ range and get hit by one of a small number of enemy types to receive a truly lethal slash proc, as uncommon as that is, and even then you can roll to reduce the damage or just go into Operator mode to nullify the damage completely.

34 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

The skill level is low in the general area because the devs somehow managed to design weapons for lv80+ areas while they intend the playfield to never go higher than lv60. Look at the operators from a panic button they were changed into immortal spectres so death can be avoided more "easily" at lower levels. The whole game is designed around lv40 areas while every weapon and skill is made to be able to use efficienty at lv 100 areas and when something becomes too efficient they nerf it.

This part of your post is correct.  The game keeps getting easier and weapons keep getting stronger, and it makes no sense.  DE has to re-balance the star chart and make the gap between top end builds and brand new players smaller while smoothing the power curve so that they can both exist on the same star map in a way that make sense.  Progression feels good, but not when it makes the gameplay totally trivial and forgettable.

[Soketsu]

The day they decide to give some relevant content lvl 200 I may take them seriously on this point, until then, nerfing loadout on the ground it slaughter lvl 60- foes is at best, a waste of time.

Edited June 26, 2018 by Soketsu

[Fallen_Echo]

17 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

4. Lots of games have this; not a huge deal.  Bigger problem is when you are Host and all enemies have prime directive to destroy your lower intestinal tract.

5. I'm not sure what you mean by this.

6. Please explain what you mean by this.

Due to difficulty problems the game is designed to make sure at the same time only 5-6 guys try to shoot you, this combined with how the hivemind functions in this game forces enemies to make sure always the least obstructed and closest enemy will shot at you.

For example if you are in a big room near a door the game will prioritize the grunt behind your back in the open to shoot at you since nothing blocks its view and can shoot at you even when doing acrobatics instead of the heavy gunner just behind a crate inside the door.

After lv 80 the enemies utilize the hivemind completely making sure that the grunt in the next door aims at you all the time regardless of the fact that you are out of their los. This can create some interesting sceniarios where for example the nullfier can shot you down in the moment you enter a room because it was already tracking you throught the wall.

24 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

7. You can dodge all of these things and also roll through them to ignore the knockdown entirely.  Grapples can easily be spoofed and are not hitscan, either.

No has managed to prove the graples are not hitscan but it is known already that their hitbox can be huge and sometimes they are capatable of homing onto you.

25 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

8. You have to be in the 150+ range and get hit by one of a small number of enemy types to receive a truly lethal slash proc, as uncommon as that is, and even then you can roll to reduce the damage or just go into Operator mode to nullify the damage completely.

Not necessearly some frames are squishy as hell and not everybody runs ehp mods in all builds.

Oh and almost forgot the aoe invisible death aura of the venomous eximus units.

[RealPandemonium]

3 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Due to difficulty problems the game is designed to make sure at the same time only 5-6 guys try to shoot you, this combined with how the hivemind functions in this game forces enemies to make sure always the least obstructed and closest enemy will shot at you.

For example if you are in a big room near a door the game will prioritize the grunt behind your back in the open to shoot at you since nothing blocks its view and can shoot at you even when doing acrobatics instead of the heavy gunner just behind a crate inside the door.

After lv 80 the enemies utilize the hivemind completely making sure that the grunt in the next door aims at you all the time regardless of the fact that you are out of their los. This can create some interesting sceniarios where for example the nullfier can shot you down in the moment you enter a room because it was already tracking you throught the wall.

No has managed to prove the graples are not hitscan but it is known already that their hitbox can be huge and sometimes they are capatable of homing onto you.

Not necessearly some frames are squishy as hell and not everybody runs ehp mods in all builds.

Oh and almost forgot the aoe invisible death aura of the venomous eximus units.

I ask you to find concrete proof that "somewhere around level 80" enemies aim exceedingly harder and better than before.  I've also definitely seen more than 5-6 enemies shooting me simultaneously so I question these supposed rules that you are stating here.

I get hit by grapples very rarely, and I've never seen them "home in."  You can easily spoof them by changing direction at the right time.

I run no durability mods on the overwhelming majority of my builds and have never received a lethal slash proc that killed me, even in sorties unless it's the Slash Enhancement variety.

Toxin Eximus aura is quite weak.  Toxic Ancients, on the other hand, have a "scream" attack that is mostly invisible graphically but is actually a deadly stream of Toxin damage covering a few meters in front of them.

[MasaJin]

2 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

I ask you to find concrete proof that "somewhere around level 80" enemies aim exceedingly harder and better than before.  I've also definitely seen more than 5-6 enemies shooting me simultaneously so I question these supposed rules that you are stating here.

I get hit by grapples very rarely, and I've never seen them "home in."  You can easily spoof them by changing direction at the right time.

I run no durability mods on the overwhelming majority of my builds and have never received a lethal slash proc that killed me, even in sorties unless it's the Slash Enhancement variety.

Toxin Eximus aura is quite weak.  Toxic Ancients, on the other hand, have a "scream" attack that is mostly invisible graphically but is actually a deadly stream of Toxin damage covering a few meters in front of them.

High lv enamies have god aim its a very well known fact if u watch them from low starting point of a mission to like a hour in

And the grapples can be fired horizontal to their body come on what game have you been playing

And toxic exi on a low hp frame with no hp recovery on its current kit or loudout runs into trouble after a couple encounters 

The guy speaks the truth just cus you got use to it and are good and avoiding it all doesnt mean 100% of us can

[RealPandemonium]

14 minutes ago, MasaJin said:

High lv enamies have god aim its a very well known fact if u watch them from low starting point of a mission to like a hour in

And the grapples can be fired horizontal to their body come on what game have you been playing

And toxic exi on a low hp frame with no hp recovery on its current kit or loudout runs into trouble after a couple encounters 

The guy speaks the truth just cus you got use to it and are good and avoiding it all doesnt mean 100% of us can

I'm waiting on his proof.

I don't care if they fire them out of their arse; I dodge them and spoof them just the same.

That aura does like 10 damage per second at sortie 3 levels, and everyone can carry HP pizzas in their gear wheel.

If you want to play endgame, get endgame skills.  Or just use builds and strategies you found on Reddit/Youtube, and powerlevel all your stuff in Hydron/Onslaught and wonder why the game isn't fun or fair to you.  

[MasaJin]

1 minute ago, RealPandemonium said:

I'm waiting on his proof.

I don't care if they fire them out of their arse; I dodge them and spoof them just the same.

That aura does like 10 damage per second at sortie 3 levels, and everyone can carry HP pizzas in their gear wheel.

If you want to play endgame, get endgame skills.  Or just use builds and strategies you found on Reddit/Youtube, and powerlevel all your stuff in Hydron/Onslaught and wonder why the game isn't fun or fair to you.  

Why would he need proof anyone who plays the game can see it lol

Good for you want a cookie? They hook me i stop caring and kill them when i get up but the hook still shouldnt be a omnidirectional mess

Alot of people frown on the pizza life(people i know) and spectors takes the fun out of properly running a mission with just you and your weapons

And what is endgame this game has no end nor is there any benefit to caring about hours of 1 mission

[Fallen_Echo]

5 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

I ask you to find concrete proof that "somewhere around level 80" enemies aim exceedingly harder and better than before.  I've also definitely seen more than 5-6 enemies shooting me simultaneously so I question these supposed rules that you are stating here.

I get hit by grapples very rarely, and I've never seen them "home in."  You can easily spoof them by changing direction at the right time.

I run no durability mods on the overwhelming majority of my builds and have never received a lethal slash proc that killed me, even in sorties unless it's the Slash Enhancement variety.

Toxin Eximus aura is quite weak.  Toxic Ancients, on the other hand, have a "scream" attack that is mostly invisible graphically but is actually a deadly stream of Toxin damage covering a few meters in front of them.

Okay soo far i found this on the issue reported in 2013:

Im on my phone now so its a bit hard to find a video proof so im gonna post some threads explaining and talking about the problem.

2016 hivemind problem discussion:

2017 enemies using prediction system to find out when to attack you, when will you get out from behind a wall:

Another discussion from 2017 on hooks and aimbot:

As for how many enemies can shoot you simultenously heres a video proof:

I never in my life seen more enemies attacking simultenously than 6.

For the ancient i will post something later gotta go to work.

[TioMegaManX]

10 hours ago, Soketsu said:

The day they decide to give some relevant content lvl 200 I may take them seriously on this point, until then, nerfing loadout on the ground it slaughter lvl 60- foes is at best, a waste of time.

You mean spongier enemies in larger numbers who can 1 shot you no matter what you use?

[AperoBeltaTwo]

2 hours ago, VanFanel1980mx said:

You mean spongier enemies in larger numbers who can 1 shot you no matter what you use?

 All we really need is beautiful numbers and some meat on the bones. Untill you invent something better, yes. Spongier enemies to be able to get a proper 'feel' for the weapons and builds we've been farming for so long; to pay off the time spent in the game. That's the whole point of the endgame. Give enemy damage and armor scaling a hard cap and continue to grow the numbers of LvL and health for the sake of people's psychological satisfaction. It doesn't have to be anything much more complicated than that. Warframe is half-way a musou game anyway.

Edited June 27, 2018 by AperoBeltaTwo

[ShadowStalker]

lmao so these threads still exist hmmm