Most efficient use of a single focus lens.

[JVargo]

When we first got the focus system I got what I needed out of Naramon for the invisibility and affinity and such, and then switched to Zenurik for the energy regen. When focus 2.0 dropped I had a bit of money and bought 4 Madurai lenses because the passive damage caught my attention. But now that I'm actually able to solo capture Eidolons, something I thought I'd never do, I find the space kid passives more appealing than the basic Warframe passives. What I desperately need to improve my Teralyst hunting is an easy way to heal my space kid, and I'm targeting the Vazarin passive health regen as my first waybound unlock. I'd already gotten 3 normal Vazarin lenses just playing the game and never cared about them. Just now I've been lucky enough to get a 4th and I'm about to go argon farming to craft them into a greater. I even have one Eidolon lens recipe, which I also never thought I'd be able to use, and the breath of the Eidolon. So after craft time and argon farming I'll have a single Vazarin Eidolon lens, and need to know whether I'm better off putting it on a frame, a gun, or a melee. I know the easy answer is whatever gets the most kills, but I'm more worried about the more complex issue of how affinity per kill is divided among our gear. If it matters my usual method of focus farming is 25-30 minutes in Gabii, or high level spies. 

[Oreades]

Well since the passive focus gains in this game are so small they might as well not exist.... you're best off putting the lens in whatever you have that can do the most consistant burst damage to the most enemies over the 50(?) seconds that you are effected by the convergence orbs/Sanctuary Onslaught effect. 

Not exactly a mechanic that fosters diversity or interesting gameplay but it's what we got. 

Saryn would probably be a pretty safe bet. 

[bluepheonix13]

12 minutes ago, JVargo said:

What I desperately need to improve my Teralyst hunting is an easy way to heal my space kid, and I'm targeting the Vazarin passive health regen as my first waybound unlock.

Another option to consider would be using Magus Replenish as one of the Operator arcanes, even if you get the Vazarin passives.

Quote

I'd already gotten 3 normal Vazarin lenses just playing the game and never cared about them. Just now I've been lucky enough to get a 4th and I'm about to go argon farming to craft them into a greater. I even have one Eidolon lens recipe, which I also never thought I'd be able to use, and the breath of the Eidolon. So after craft time and argon farming I'll have a single Vazarin Eidolon lens, and need to know whether I'm better off putting it on a frame, a gun, or a melee. I know the easy answer is whatever gets the most kills, but I'm more worried about the more complex issue of how affinity per kill is divided among our gear. If it matters my usual method of focus farming is 25-30 minutes in Gabii, or high level spies. 

It depends on your method of farming focus:

• The most efficient way is to use Equinox or Banshee in an exterminate with Naramon's melee affinity boost and just stealth melee everything. In that case, the best way to use the lens would be on the melee weapon.
• If you farm focus actively with Warframe abilities (e.g. Saryn Spores or Miasma, Resonating Banshee,..) the only useful way would be to put it on the Warframe.
• If you farm using a weapon, you can use it on either the Warframe or the weapon (if you're not using Naramon+melee). Be reminded though, that affinity from team mates gets split 25% to your frame and 75% to your weapon, so if you use this in public, putting the weapon on the lens and only taking this weapon is better.
• Spy vaults should split affinity the same way as affinity from team mates, so again, putting it on a weapon and not equipping other weapons is the best choice.

For more information on affinity and how it is divided, look here: https://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Affinity#Acquisition

Edited July 1, 2018 by bluepheonix13

[JVargo]

15 minutes ago, bluepheonix13 said:

Another option to consider would be using Magus Replenish as one of the Operator arcanes, even if you get the Vazarin passives.

It depends on your method of farming focus:

• The most efficient way is to use Equinox or Banshee in an exterminate with Naramon's melee affinity boost and just stealth melee everything. In that case, the best way to use the lens would be on the melee weapon.
• If you farm focus actively with Warframe abilities (e.g. Saryn Spores or Miasma, Resonating Banshee,..) the only useful way would be to put it on the Warframe.
• If you farm using a weapon, you can use it on either the Warframe or the weapon (if you're not using Naramon+melee). Be reminded though, that affinity from team mates gets split 25% to your frame and 75% to your weapon, so if you use this in public, putting the weapon on the lens and only taking this weapon is better.
• Spy vaults should split affinity the same way as affinity from team mates, so again, putting it on a weapon and not equipping other weapons is the best choice.

For more information on affinity and how it is divided, look here: https://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Affinity#Acquisition

Very useful information thank you. I only have 3 arcanes so far and they aren't things I use, but it's good to know there is a healing one. Maybe I'll get lucky. Looking this over it seems I might end up going one of two ways, either Mesa for survivals where I go Peacemaker during forcus orbs, which thanks to my kavat can sometimes net me 35-40k a run with no booster, or the stealther route. I actually used stealth with Ivara to forma my Lanka for Eidolon hunting, so I'll throw one of my old Zenurik or Naramon lenses on a weapon and see how that goes. I have 24 hours craft time to figure it out. 

[taiiat]

i read basically nothiing of this, because the answer is always the same.

the best use of a single Focus Lens is to put it on your Warframe. ideally a Warframe that is apt at Killing things with its Abilities, but even if you love playing Trinity, putting the Focus Lens on the Warframe is still always the maximum Focus points vs a single Lens on anything else.
no matter what you're doing with your Equipment, if it's 1 Focus Lens vs 0 Focus Lens - you always get more Focus from putting it on the Warframe. if you want to be able to move it around more easily then whatever Weapon will be doing the most Killing in your Equipment, but just remember it'll be less than if it was on the Warframe.

this is assuming, that you aren't playing Solo exclusively or almost exclusively and you're actively playing in Missions rather than AFK'ing. since there's not really any reason to ever do that. if you do play Warframe like a Single Player game or do idle in Missions though, that changes things.

(and now i'll read what's being said here)

19 minutes ago, JVargo said:

What I desperately need to improve my Teralyst hunting is an easy way to heal my space kid, and I'm targeting the Vazarin passive health regen as my first waybound unlock.

the Health Capacity upgrade is like 20x better, buy that one first. the Passive Regen is very slow in the grand scheme of things. you'll be disappointed with your purchase if you buy the Regen first.
it'll make a much more impactful result to your spacekid survivability.

[DatDarkOne]

I agree with Taiiat.  I will add that depending on the frame used, putting the single lens on the frame is still the better option.  Frames with exalted powers, Saryn, and Ember are good examples.  Maybe Octavia also.  

[JVargo]

Well I finished my stealth test on Adaro. I used Ivara with a Greater Madurai lens and a Hushed Vectis Prime with a Greater Zenurik lens. Only messed up the multiplier twice. The final focus gain was almost even, Ivara got 10,538 to Madurai, VectisP got 10,581 to Zenurik. This is of course without boosters, solo, and no other weapons or companions. I'd say that definitely convinces me that the frame earns almost as much as the weapon and is probably the better choice. 

[DatDarkOne]

8 minutes ago, JVargo said:

Well I finished my stealth test on Adaro. I used Ivara with a Greater Madurai lens and a Hushed Vectis Prime with a Greater Zenurik lens. Only messed up the multiplier twice. The final focus gain was almost even, Ivara got 10,538 to Madurai, VectisP got 10,581 to Zenurik. This is of course without boosters, solo, and no other weapons or companions. I'd say that definitely convinces me that the frame earns almost as much as the weapon and is probably the better choice. 

Ivara might be a special case in this instance due to Prowl.  Shooting and killing enemies while Prowl is active counts as both using Warframe power and weapon.  It first came to my attention when I was doing my Ivara and Daikyu forma'ing at the same time.  I think a similar thing happens with other frames that have powers that have interactions with weapons.  Like Banshee's Sonar for example.  

Edited July 2, 2018 by DatDarkOne

[bluepheonix13]

1 hour ago, JVargo said:

Well I finished my stealth test on Adaro. I used Ivara with a Greater Madurai lens and a Hushed Vectis Prime with a Greater Zenurik lens. Only messed up the multiplier twice. The final focus gain was almost even, Ivara got 10,538 to Madurai, VectisP got 10,581 to Zenurik. This is of course without boosters, solo, and no other weapons or companions. I'd say that definitely convinces me that the frame earns almost as much as the weapon and is probably the better choice. 

Kills with weapons divide the affinity 50/50 between the weapon and the Warframe, so if you want to take this route, it does not matter where you put your lens. Also, @DatDarkOne, it has nothing to do with Prowl or using other abilities, just general rule for weapon kills. 

[bluepheonix13]

5 hours ago, taiiat said:

the best use of a single Focus Lens is to put it on your Warframe. ideally a Warframe that is apt at Killing things with its Abilities, but even if you love playing Trinity, putting the Focus Lens on the Warframe is still always the maximum Focus points vs a single Lens on anything else.
no matter what you're doing with your Equipment, if it's 1 Focus Lens vs 0 Focus Lens - you always get more Focus from putting it on the Warframe. if you want to be able to move it around more easily then whatever Weapon will be doing the most Killing in your Equipment, but just remember it'll be less than if it was on the Warframe.

This is not entirely true and depends on the situation. Especially for Trinity, who is not able to kill a lot of enemies with abilities, a weapon will always be the better choice, because kills with the weapon will split the affinity 50/50 between frame and weapon while kills from team mates split 25 to frame and 75 divided between the weapons. This means that it makes much more sense to put the lens on a mass killing weapon (AoE melee, Ignis,..) and don't equip another weapon.

Another example is the one I posted above, using a melee weapon with the affinity bonus from Naramon unlocked will also give more focus with the lens on the weapon. 

You are right in the case where the frame has a lot of damage potential with abilities (e.g. Saryn, Equinox, Quake Banshee,..). 

Edited July 2, 2018 by bluepheonix13

[taiiat]

1 minute ago, bluepheonix13 said:

This is not entirely true and depends on the situation.

here, i'll show you the part you didn't read a second time.

5 hours ago, taiiat said:

this is assuming, that you aren't playing Solo exclusively or almost exclusively and you're actively playing in Missions rather than AFK'ing. since there's not really any reason to ever do that. if you do play Warframe like a Single Player game or do idle in Missions though, that changes things.

i'm the reason the Affinity Article is as easy to read as it is now, so you stick your foot in your mouth. that Article is basically mine.

 

 

1 hour ago, JVargo said:

Well I finished my stealth test on Adaro. I used Ivara with a Greater Madurai lens and a Hushed Vectis Prime with a Greater Zenurik lens. Only messed up the multiplier twice. The final focus gain was almost even, Ivara got 10,538 to Madurai, VectisP got 10,581 to Zenurik. This is of course without boosters, solo, and no other weapons or companions. I'd say that definitely convinces me that the frame earns almost as much as the weapon and is probably the better choice. 

 yep, in solo play the Weapon and Warframe will get an even split if the Weapon Kills something.

[DatDarkOne]

There is a problem with the 50/50 split with affinity.  I say this only because just yesterday I was ranking up a my second Ivara and two other weapons from 0.  The second weapon I didn't use at all in the mission, but yet it still got ranks(affinity).  This was solo and not while doing a spy vault.  

So my question is if there is 50/50 split, then where was the affinity for the second unused weapon coming from?

Edited July 2, 2018 by DatDarkOne

[bluepheonix13]

3 minutes ago, taiiat said:

here, i'll show you the part you didn't read a second time.

Well, it seems like you either didn't read my first example or you didn't bother to think it through, because I did not assume Soloing or AFKing. 

To elaborate:

Assume you are playing a Trinity with only a well-modded Ignis equipped and you have a Mesa in your squad. To simplify calculations, let's assume every enemy gives x Exp. You finish the mission with 100 kills (all with Ignis because Trin sucks at killing enemies with abilities), while the Mesa got 200. In that case, your Trinity got 100 * 0,5 * x + 200 * 0,25 * x = 100 * x Exp. Your Ignis on the other hand finishes with 100 * 0,5 * x + 200 * 0,75 * x = 200 * x Exp. Do you see the point I was trying to make now? 

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_IGN]

Your not suppose to equip two weapons...........    Frame + 1 weapon.  

It doesnt matter as far as affinity split whether you use a gun or melee BUT if you are primaried in Naramon and have afinity spike Melee kills generate +45% affinity. Melee>Gun

---------------------

Your first focus school needs to always be Naramon.  Max out Affinity Spike and keep Naramon as your primary school on your operator.   Then just use Lens's for whatever school you want to level up...Use melee weapons...  

[bluepheonix13]

8 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

There is a problem with the 50/50 split with affinity.  I say this only because just yesterday I was ranking up a my second Ivara and two other weapons from 0.  The second weapon I didn't use at all in the mission, but yet it still got ranks(affinity).  This was solo and not while doing a spy vault.  

So my question is if there is 50/50 split, then where was the affinity for the second unused weapon coming from?

There are several other ways of getting affinity, which split like affinity from ally kills, e.g. doing the mission challenge, picking up affinity orbs or hacking terminals. See the link above. 

[DatDarkOne]

3 minutes ago, bluepheonix13 said:

There are several other ways of getting affinity, which split like affinity from ally kills, e.g. doing the mission challenge, picking up affinity orbs or hacking terminals. See the link above. 

That still doesn't explain it going from rank 0 to rank 3 during a solo survival while not being used.  In a survival or exterminate mission none of the things you mentioned except for possibly the orbs apply.  I highly doubt the enemies were dropping that many orbs to rank the weapon up that much in just a short 10 minute run.  

I specifically said outside hacking the spy vault so you would get right away that it wasn't due to the mission challenge affinity.  

[taiiat]

27 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

yesterday I was ranking up a my second Ivara and two other weapons from 0.  The second weapon I didn't use at all in the mission, but yet it still got ranks(affinity).  This was solo and not while doing a spy vault.  

So my question is if there is 50/50 split, then where was the affinity for the second unused weapon coming from?

most likely sources would be completing Objectives / Mission Challenge or Allies if they were present in the Mission.

4 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

solo survival while not being used.
I highly doubt the enemies were dropping that many orbs to rank the weapon up that much in just a short 10 minute run.  

okay, then Mission Challenge? yeah you probably didn't see more than maybe 20 XP Orbs tops which even that is kinda high.
one Mission Challenge would do it though, only 4500XP to get to Lv3.

if you do have good (and reproducible) reason to think that XP doesn't completely match the Affinity Article, i'll be happy to update it.

Edited July 2, 2018 by taiiat

[DatDarkOne]

4 minutes ago, taiiat said:

if you do have good (and reproducible) reason to think that XP doesn't completely match the Affinity Article, i'll be happy to update it.

I'll let you know when I get a chance to test further and get a better idea of what exactly was happening.  

edit: Sadly my gaming time has been extremely limited lately.  

Edited July 2, 2018 by DatDarkOne

[bluepheonix13]

4 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I specifically said outside hacking the spy vault so you would get right away that it wasn't due to the mission challenge affinity.  

To clarify, a challenge is the little task you get when starting a mission (e.g. 20 Pistol Kills, or using the first ability 5 times). 

[DatDarkOne]

10 minutes ago, taiiat said:

okay, then Mission Challenge? yeah you probably didn't see more than maybe 20 XP Orbs tops which even that is kinda high.
one Mission Challenge would do it though, only 4500XP to get to Lv3.

 

5 minutes ago, bluepheonix13 said:

To clarify, a challenge is the little task you get when starting a mission (e.g. 20 Pistol Kills, or using the first ability 5 times). 

Ahh those little random challenges given at the beginning of the mission that we tend to ignore.  That answers that.  

[(XBOX)D34thst41ker]

According to my understanding of the Affinity system, if you've only got a single Lens, it should go on your Frame. The reasoning for this is flexibility. No matter what you're doing or how you're getting kills, your Frame is pretty much always getting at least some Affinity, so you'll always be getting Focus. If you put the Lens on a weapon, you can end up not getting any Affinity at all. Putting the Lens on a Frame allows you the flexibility of playing how you want, and the ability to change from heavy Ability use to heavy Weapon use and back without completely killing your Focus gains.

Now, to be fair, the case where you don't get Focus is pretty specific (you need to be playing solo, and not use the weapon with the Lens to get kills). However, while I certainly enjoy the game, I'm not terribly good at it. To give you an idea of how bad I am, my record for most Focus gained from an Adaro run is about 25k. That's for the entire run, not per Convergence Orb. Given that everyone else easily gets over 100k from an Adaro run, I resigned myself to getting Focus passively as I did other things, rather than actively as I would have preferred. Because of this, making sure that I am getting Focus no matter what I'm doing is more important than maximizing my Focus gains.