Vauban - Hey Listen Buddy, I'm An Engineer

[Sintag]

Yep, it's another one of these.  There's no denying it that, even with his partial revisit back when his Prime was released, Vauban's kit is old.  It also suffers from a few other issues.

• His 1 is useless, as it doesn't do enough damage fast enough, and doesn't even reliably stun enemies.
• His 3 and 4 both CC, but CC differently, and suffer from redundancy regardless, which doesn't help since they're the only Powers worth using.
• His 2 is only helpful in certain niche situations, and almost all of them are, from a functional standpoint, better done elsewhere regardless.
• His passive requires teammates and, for an engineer, makes absolutely no sense.  It also hardly really benefits Vauban himself, as he has fairly paper-thin armor, even when Primed.

So how do we go about fixing this?  Well, they did say Vauban's an engineer.  Let's solve practical problems, then!

WARFRAME STATS
Statistically speaking, Vauban's actually in a decent place right now.

Passive Ideas:
Optimization: Vauban and any allies near him (Let's say 20 meters) gain 50% more Energy and Ammo from all sources.
Reinforcements: Vauban gains armor the more Powers he has deployed, instead of relying on allies.

1: Turrets

Spoiler

Vauban, in a Quiver-esqe interface, can swap between one of four turret types: Tesla Rod, Gatling Turret, Flamethrower, and Acid Sprayer.

Vauban begins with just the Tesla Rod.  This small thing sticks to floors only, bouncing off walls and ceilings until it hits a floor, and shocks nearby enemies at a much faster pace than the old Tesla ever did, more reliably providing a stun.
Tesla Rod Stats
Duration: 20/22/25/25 Seconds
Damage: 200/300/400/500 Electric Damage
Range: 10/12/14/16 Meters
Critical Chance/Multiplier: 15%/2.0x
Status Chance: 15%
Shock Rate: 1 Shock/Second
Costs 25 Energy

When the skill levels up, he gains the Gatling Turret.  This gun sticks to anything and focuses on one enemy, pelting it with bullets until the target is dead or out of it's line of sight, in which case the gun picks a new target and begins firing away.
Gatling Turret Stats
Duration: 15/20/25 Seconds
Damage: 20/40/60 (Equally distributed among Impact, Puncture, and Slash)
Range: 20/25/30 meters, also requires Line of Sight
Maximum Ammo: 200/250/300 Rounds
Fire Rate: 5/7/9 Rounds/second
Critical Chance/Multiplier: 10%/1.5x
Status Chance: 5%
Costs 25 Energy

Once he hits Level 2, he gets the Flamethrower.  This sticks to walls and floors, but not ceilings, and will fire a gush of flames at enemies that dare get too close.
Flamethrower Stats
Duration: 15/20 Seconds
Damage: 200/250 Heat
Range: 20m/20m
Critical Chance/Multiplier: 10%/1.5x
Status Chance: 15%
Costs 25 Energy

When the skill levels up for the final time, Vauban gets the Acid Sprayer.  This sticks to everything and sprays a corrosive mist indiscriminately, buffeting all enemies inside with a corrosive cloud of acid.
Acid Sprayer Stats
Duration: 10 Seconds
Damage: 300 Corrosive/Second
Range: 14m
Status Chance: 25%
Critical Chance/Multiplier: 0.0%/-
Costs 40 Energy

LIMITS: Only 2 of every Turret can exist on the field at any given time.  Should Vauban throw a third, the older Turret of that type will disappear.

Augment: Turret Link
Turrets are linked by an energy field that deals 250 Slash Damage to enemies that come too close.

2: Resupplier

Spoiler

Vauban deploys an orb that restores Energy, and Ammo every second, and speeds up Shield Recovery, to anyone standing nearby, allowing them to more easily hold an area down without having to run for pickups or flee to restore shields.
Energy and Ammo are buffed by Optimization.
STATS
Duration: 10/12/14/16 Seconds
Range: 12/16/20/24 Meters
Energy Restored/Second: 2/3/4/5
Ammo Restored/Second: 5%/10%/15%/20%
Shield Recovery Bonus: 10%/20%/30%/40%
Costs 50 Energy
AUGMENT: Med Station
No longer supplies Ammo, but will instead regenerate 30/40/50 HP/second.

3: Bastille

Spoiler

Bastille's actually in a good spot right now.  This said, however, there's always room for improvement (And this comes from you lovely people down below, thank you, Dolerhyde!)

I'm fine with this ability as is, though if I were making a wish list, I would make the repelling function from the augment baseline, and change the augment to add damage reduction to Vauban and all allies within the Bastille, scaled by the number of enemies held in the field (e.g., 2% DR per enemy, affected by ability strength).  Nothing too overpowered, but it would add some utility at the cost of a mod slot, and incentivize builds other than the high duration / high range / tanked strength that is common now.  

4: Vortex

Spoiler

Yep, it's back on the table!  ...sort of!  Give your thanks to Riko_113 for this idea:
'Since Vortex is clearly redundant in his kit maybe they could convert it to a high radiation/magnetic damage DoT in the area with some secondary effect instead of the extreme gravitational pull. Actually, it would make sense if they used the idea from your Bastille change for that effect instead. Have his 4 deal high DoT and pull in all enemy weapons to it's center point. Enemies can go to reclaim them but take increasing DoT the closer to the center they go and it's harder to walk away from the vortex than towards.'

Alternative Idea for 4: Bombardier

Spoiler

Never underestimate an engineer.

On cast, Vauban pulls out the Ogive (French for Warhead).  The Ogive lobs plasma orbs that deal Radiation damage on impact, with a splash radius of 6 meters, making it best described as 'Arca Plasmor on crack.'  Falloff over the radius doesn't apply to the Ogive's projectiles, and it can fire 3 rounds a second.  However, it's an energy hog, burning massive heaps of Energy to keep it out and firing.  It also disables ALL outside Energy restoration.  Energy Vampire, Team Energy Restores, even Orbs won't work while the Ogive is currently equipped.  The Ogive takes Rifle mods, and can use Firestorm.

COST
30 Energy (Initial Summon)
5 Energy/Second (Increases over 10 seconds, capping at 10 Energy/second)
3 Energy/shot

OGIVE STATISTICS
Damage: 1,200/1,500/1,800/2,000 Radiation
Fire Rate: 3.00
Accuracy: 100.0
Magazine: IRRELEVANT
Reload Time: DOESN'T MATTER
Critical Chance/Multiplier: 10.0%/2.0x
Status Chance: 20%
Polarities: 1 V

As always, let me know what you think!

Edited July 12, 2018 by Sintag
Small overhaul to the entire rework courtesy of some great ideas from other posters!

[peterc3]

You've completely changed 3/4 abilities and the Passive and given him an exalted weapon.

This is a new frame.

[songsofanightingale]

All these ideas sound great! However, I think Bombardier looks a bit. . . excessive. The damage is huge, yet the energy drain will make it as niche as his old 2nd. Also, if Khora is any indication, DE is probably going to want to avoid having yet another exalted weapon. I love the ideas for the first 3 abilities, though! 🙂

[Sintag]

5 minutes ago, songsofanightingale said:

All these ideas sound great! However, I think Bombardier looks a bit. . . excessive. The damage is huge, yet the energy drain will make it as niche as his old 2nd. Also, if Khora is any indication, DE is probably going to want to avoid having yet another exalted weapon. I love the ideas for the first 3 abilities, though! 🙂

The energy drain's meant to be a bit nuts, both to compensate for the huge DPS and for the fact that Vauban can recover his own Energy fairly quickly, provided he has a Resupplier already deployed.
This said, I'll cut back on the upfront cost of using Bombardier, that part's a bit excessive.

8 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

You've completely changed 3/4 abilities and the Passive and given him an exalted weapon.

This is a new frame.

Like I said, Vauban's kit is old and suffers from problems brought on simply by aging like a carton of milk.  It's needed a revamp, and while I doubt DE will go with a rework this dramatic, it's just an idea I had knocking around in my head for some time now.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

10 hours ago, peterc3 said:

You've completely changed 3/4 abilities and the Passive and given him an exalted weapon.

This is a new frame.

Exactly my opinion...

 

DE will never take a rework this far, way too much work.

[CreamedSoda]

Just have the first and second ability changes and I am sure Vauban would be pushed back into the cycle of use. 

[Aetrion]

This seems like a whole new frame, not like a rebalance.

[Sintag]

7 hours ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

Exactly my opinion...

 

DE will never take a rework this far, way too much work.

It's a forum post for a good reason; I'm aware a potential rework won't be this dramatic, but he does need some brushing up.  Like I outlined, his kit's not in a good spot right now, it's either too weak, too situational, or redundant.

 

4 hours ago, Whitestrake0 said:

Just have the first and second ability changes and I am sure Vauban would be pushed back into the cycle of use. 

That's what I'm aiming for here, to make Vauban useful again outside of a few niches.  Even if only part of this gets adopted, it'll be good enough for me.

 

4 hours ago, Aetrion said:

This seems like a whole new frame, not like a rebalance.

It kind of is in hindsight.  And I'm aware a possible Vauban 2.0 won't be this over-the-top, but two things.
1: I can dream, and frankly I needed to get these ideas out here
2: Even just adopting the Ability changes, to his 1 and 2 (and maybe the Passive) would leave Vauban a lot better off than he currently is, even if the redundancy issue still stands.

Edited July 11, 2018 by Sintag

[Kaiath64]

I prefer vortex over bastille.

Besides, only his 1, most of his 2 and his passive (kinda) are useless... why do you want to change his 3 and 4? Both of them are useful

[Littlemike137]

Just a couple points, outside of abilities, he needs some QoL changes like a bit more energy and a fair amount more armor.  Even with these changes he will still be a squishy frame, who will probably go down pretty much instantly at any level past 25 in bombardier mode if his movement is cramped at all.  I like your ideas though and wish De would rework one of my old favorites.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

As much as I like this, I have to agree there isn't much chance of DE going with a full rework (though it's definitely possible if they consider him broken enough).

It's still likely they could take aspects of this though to overwrite his current ability set. Since Vortex is clearly redundant in his kit maybe they could convert it to a high radiation/magnetic damage DoT in the area with some secondary effect instead of the extreme gravitational pull. Actually, it would make sense if they used the idea from your Bastille change for that effect instead. Have his 4 deal high DoT and pull in all enemy weapons to it's center point. Enemies can go to reclaim them but take increasing DoT the closer to the center they go and it's harder to walk away from the vortex than towards.

I definitely think Tesla should be converted to a rod like you suggest and moved to his cycle abilities in place of Bounce.

[Prof.549]

Turrets again...

Nuff said.

[Zavenosk]

• Another 4-in-1 ability?  I hate them, to cumbersome to be used quickly or conveniently.  Tone down to a tap/hold duel ability
• Resupplier does too many things, with no true gimmick or drawback
• Bastille is fine as-is, without disarming. This really accomplishes nothing more than showing how overpowered you desire Vauban to be
• Exalted Weapon...  really, there is no polite way of making my point here
• Passive... moar Zenurik?   Again, underpowered to overpowered.  I'll draw a hard, hard line at a passive being powerful enough to be worth taking a 'frame for it in-of-itself.  Limbo aside, as a special case. 

 

[Dolerhyde]

I appreciate the OP's effort, but I think it strays way too far from the current kit to be remotely likely given the track record of DE to 'massage' a current kit rather than redo it from the ground up.  That said, here's what I would do:

Passive

Reinforce: Vauban's armor is increased by X for each deployed item he has on the field (tweak number for balance, but I would shoot for something like 25-40)

1) Vortex (with damage and duration numbers tweaked to fit a first ability)

Vortex is a good ability, but I think it would fit better as a fast, small area CC like a few other frames have (Banshee, Inaros, Volt, etc.).  The augment can either stay as is, or be changed, I don't have strong feelings either way.  

2) MInefield

This ability is too busy, and not very good as a spammable grenade type ability.  I would instead change this to be similar to Oberon's Hallowed Ground combined with Hydroid's charging mechanic.  On tap, it would cover an area with radius X, and holding the key would increase energy cost to extend the radius up to 2x the base cost and radius.  The base energy cost and radius would need to be tweaked for balance.  The field would persist for a duration, and have a chance per enemy on the field per second to trigger a mine, based on ability strength.  When triggered, a current shred mine is detonated under the enemy (with appropriate explosion radius, damage)  I would keep the armor reduction but make it not start the duration timer until the enemy leaves the mine field. 

2A) Minefield Augment - Enhance the current minefield to add the trip mine effect to shred mines (idea here is to spend a mod slot to keep enemies in the field longer)

3) Bastille 

I'm fine with this ability as is, though if I were making a wish list, I would make the repelling function from the augment baseline, and change the augment to add damage reduction to Vauban and all allies within the Bastille, scaled by the number of enemies held in the field (e.g., 2% DR per enemy, affected by ability strength).  Nothing too overpowered, but it would add some utility at the cost of a mod slot, and incentivize builds other than the high duration / high range / tanked strength that is common now.  

4) Tesla Coil

Deploy a Tesla Coil that zaps enemies within 20m range for 300 electricity damage with base 10% crit / 2.0x crit multiplier / 15% status chance.  Damage and status chance are affected by mods in the primary weapon and ability strength.  Up to two tesla coils can be deployed at a time.  The damage can bounce up to 4 times, each jump diminishes the damage and jump distance by half.  Each coil can discharge once per 3 seconds, affected by ability duration.  

4A) Tesla Coil Augment -  Add the concuss effect to the first enemy hit by the coil.

 

Just my thoughts after a morning of pondering what I would do to clean up his kit. 

[Aetrion]

21 hours ago, Kaiath64 said:

I prefer vortex over bastille.

I actually agree there, Vortex + Opticor = kill a whole room in one shot.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

On 2018-07-10 at 10:10 PM, Kaiath64 said:

I prefer vortex over bastille.

Besides, only his 1, most of his 2 and his passive (kinda) are useless... why do you want to change his 3 and 4? Both of them are useful

 

4 hours ago, Aetrion said:

I actually agree there, Vortex + Opticor = kill a whole room in one shot.

Same, nothing like just sitting there n pumping a ignis or zarr into that swirling mass.

 

16 hours ago, Prof.549 said:

Turrets again...

Nuff said.

I know right?

[Sintag]

17 hours ago, Prof.549 said:

Turrets again...

Nuff said.

Then explain what Tesla is, because as something I can slap onto any surface and have it automatically zap stuff for me, I'd say that qualifies pretty well as a turret.  And, no.  I don't qualify it as a stun, either, it's not an ensured effect and only seems to work when it wants to.

17 hours ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

As much as I like this, I have to agree there isn't much chance of DE going with a full rework (though it's definitely possible if they consider him broken enough).

It's still likely they could take aspects of this though to overwrite his current ability set. Since Vortex is clearly redundant in his kit maybe they could convert it to a high radiation/magnetic damage DoT in the area with some secondary effect instead of the extreme gravitational pull. Actually, it would make sense if they used the idea from your Bastille change for that effect instead. Have his 4 deal high DoT and pull in all enemy weapons to it's center point. Enemies can go to reclaim them but take increasing DoT the closer to the center they go and it's harder to walk away from the vortex than towards.

I definitely think Tesla should be converted to a rod like you suggest and moved to his cycle abilities in place of Bounce.

Even if it's just in part, given his Deluxe skin is coming soon, I figured it was high time to rework an old kit that's shown it's age.  And while some of it (Bombardier, mostly) likely won't see the light of day, I can dream.

On 2018-07-10 at 10:10 PM, Kaiath64 said:

I prefer vortex over bastille.

Besides, only his 1, most of his 2 and his passive (kinda) are useless... why do you want to change his 3 and 4? Both of them are useful

Vortex is competing with Bastille in the CC role as well as a damage role.  As a damager, it's worth a damn unlike Tesla, but as a CC it doesn't have a prayer against Bastille under most circumstances.  Sure, it's great if you're getting swarmed by enemies or Disruptors, or if you need this room dead like right now, but it's got issues.

Vortex

• Pulls enemies in and ragdolls them, setting them up for ground finishers if deployed close to the ground
• Can suck an unlimited number of enemies in
• Deals Magnetic damage
• Costs more Energy to cast
• Sinks like a rock
• Shorter duration
• Smaller area affected

Bastille

• Cheaper to cast
• Flies further (which, albeit, is only handy on either Excavation or Mobile Defense)
• Covers a wider area
• Lasts longer without Augments
• Makes landing headshots easier
• Can only hold a finite amount of enemies
• Ancient Disruptors laugh in power cancellation
• Doesn't set up finishers or cluster foes together

And this said, while yes, Vortex and Bastille are somewhat redundant and shouldn't both be on the same kit, redundancy isn't my #1 issue with Vauban.  My major issue is that his 1 and 2 are both dead weight nine times out of ten as they are.

[(PSN)ZeroSection]

On 2018-07-10 at 1:28 AM, Sintag said:

-Snip-

As always, let me know what you think!

If I were to give some feed back:

Passive: A little strong.  I would move away from the ammo/energy buffing idea as suggested below.

Turret:

Its far too Ron Popeil style set it and forget it.  You need to add some interactivity with it so it doesn't become so passive.  Right now it feels a little "afk" in its design which is what DE say they're trying to fight.  The idea for different types of turrets seems cool though.

Resupplier:

I would consider scrapping this entirely.  Ammo economy is nearly non-existent in this game, and the options we have to recover it are far more than adequate when you throw in ammo pizzas, carrier, ammo mutations, the fact that weapons in this game don't have super bad ammo economy outside a few outliers.  The same could be said for energy requirements these days too.

Bastille:  Its a nice idea that makes Bastille a little less vanilla in its CC capability.  You may want to consider shrinking the base radius and allowing more than 1 to be up at any given time, say like a max of 3.  It'd be a nice way to curb spam.

Bombardier:  So this is an Exalted rocket launcher?  That's the vibe I'm getting anyway.  I would probably not do this one either.  It just doesn't really feel like an engineer style weapon.  You'd be more a demolition man at this point.  Have you considered grenades that you could cook with utility effects?

[Prof.549]

56 minutes ago, Sintag said:

Then explain what Tesla is

Tesla is a fun part of Vauban's kit. It's kind of single target control, but you can throw 20 of them in the choke point and it'd work somewhat good. Also you can make an ally a moving Tesla tower. Which is fun. And jumping pads. I Love them. This is a true endgame content.

Vauban is a full CC frame. He doesn't need DPS or Tanking abilities(tho his passive is helpin in there a bit). Warframe is not(and never was) about versatility. Every frame is aligned to it's specific purpose with sliiiiight ability to adjustments. So as Vauban could be built for "DPS". Not as close effective as "real" DPS frames, but still.

Edited July 12, 2018 by Prof.549

[(PSN)ZeroSection]

53 minutes ago, Sintag said:

And this said, while yes, Vortex and Bastille are somewhat redundant and shouldn't both be on the same kit, redundancy isn't my #1 issue with Vauban.  My major issue is that his 1 and 2 are both dead weight nine times out of ten as they are.

Honestly it should be.  3/4ths of his kit does the same thing.  1/4th is actually detrimental to the 2/4ths that are actually worth while to use since you want things to be running into Bastille/Vortex.  The last 1/4th is just another poorly scaling mine in disguise that zaps enemies with static electricity and sticks to allies.

[(PSN)ZeroSection]

14 minutes ago, Prof.549 said:

Tesla is a fun part of Vauban's kit. It's kind of single target control, but you can throw 20 of them in the choke point and it'd work somewhat good.

Its fun to watch the initial "lulz" from this (like 20 different static shocks just going off).  However, when you actually try to build into power strength (like 200+) only to see mobs get tickled on something as simple as Hydron or Hieracon(sp?) or even Uranus it becomes a tad disheartening.

13 minutes ago, Prof.549 said:

Vauban is a full CC frame. He doesn't need DPS or Tanking abilities(tho his passive is helpin in there a bit).

I'd argue that this would be more significant if we didn't have a plethora of CC options already on frames that bring more to the table than just CC.  I personally don't think its really necessary to have this kind of niche filled anymore because they keep releasing frames with CC options.  It devalues Booban every time they do this.  Not to mention the fact that we've been power creeped away from needing as much CC as Vauban brings to the table in recent years. 

As for his passive its one of the worst in the game as its up-time is entirely dependent on allies being within 20M of you.  Your not gonna find an optimal situation for that in a normal pug.  Then there's the fact that he doesn't really have the base armor to make use of it.

20 minutes ago, Prof.549 said:

Warframe is not(and never was) about versatility. Every frame is aligned to it's specific purpose with sliiiiight ability to adjustments. So as Vauban could be built for "DPS". Not as close effective as "real" DPS frames, but still.

I can't co-sign this one unfortunately.  A lot of the OG frames like Excalibur were plenty versatile even before major reworks.  Super Jump Provided mobility, Radial Javelin for crowd clearing light mooks, Radial Blind to CC, Slash Dash as a gap closer/mobility-Super Jump + Radial Javelin was an awesome crowd clearing combo for its time.  Even after they dumped Super jump and gave him EB he's still pretty versatile.  Never mind other frames like Rhino that have tanking, buffing, CCing options. 

Now that I think about it there aren't too many frames left that are super hyper focused on one thing and only offer it in that one way like Booban.  Most of the new stuff generally has some kind of a core, but its not really the hyper focus of the frame, and then stuff built around the core rather than slight ability adjustments.  Gara has area denial with CC options, one of the best tank abilities in the game that you can cast on team mates/objectives and scales infinitely with damage, and a decent 1 that combos with her 4 which also combos with her 3.  Khora has her hybrid combo damage ala the dome + Ensare cc options but also has pure damage options and a very good support option in the form of healing from the cat.  Harrow has supportive options that are folded into DPS options as well (reload speed buff is insane for DPS, and that crit buff is something else).  Octavia sings a song that buffs damage, but she also has a really good scalling AoE damage move, utility options such as invis and such.  Atlas punches a dude, but he also has some area denial through his wall, CC through his Petrify etc.  Revenant looks to be turning out ok. 

The game seems to be moving in that not so complete jack-of-all trades direction where frames do a lot of things ok.

[Prof.549]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)ZeroSection said:

Most of the new stuff generally has some kind of a core, but its not really the hyper focus of the frame, and then stuff built around the core

And that's what making them even more useless than "focused" frames.

Gara, Khora - how often you see them at all(and outside defences)?

Harrow - does he appear somewhere aside from Eidolons?

Octavia - 1h+ survivals?

Atlas - ...i dont remember the last time i've seen that frame at all.

[(PSN)ZeroSection]

39 minutes ago, Prof.549 said:

And that's what making them even more useless than "focused" frames.

Gara, Khora - how often you see them at all(and outside defences)?

Harrow - does he appear somewhere aside from Eidolons?

Octavia - 1h+ survivals?

Atlas - ...i dont remember the last time i've seen that frame at all.

Not at all.  There are other factors that drive those frames down such as RNG and farm, play styles and other little quirks, such as a friend of mine who refuses to play female frames.

As for the other stuff:

Gara's too ugly to be played with her line backer shoulders, but I see her way more than Booban.  Shes good for rescues or escorts where objectives need baby sitting

Khora's locked behind some pretty gnarly RNG, but I still see her quite often enough that I know she at least exists-and were talking more than just intercept or excavation.  People seem to really like that whip and that cat.  Whereas I've seen a Vauban other than myself twice in May, none in June, and none this month either.

Harrow I see all the time in that same Tennogen skin that I don't like lol.  There are many like myself who prefer him to other options.

Octavia I see all the time.  Too many of them have that Evangelion theme song that makes me turn off Octavia tunes.

Atlas is locked behind one of the worst Archwing missions/bosses in the game in my opinion.  And its behind one of the most unpopular modes in the game as well and actually needs some effort put into archwing building, so I'm not surprized I don't see him often.  If he were a reward from Mars for example you'd probably see A LOT more of him. 

Anecdotal evidence like this is terrible though as we may not see a frame being played in our own personal experience a lot but it doesn't mean they're not being played at all or infrequently.  Example: you say you never see Octavia but I see her ALL the time.  People like that frame on PS4.

Edited July 12, 2018 by (PS4)ZeroSection

[Dolerhyde]

1 hour ago, Prof.549 said:

And that's what making them even more useless than "focused" frames.

Gara, Khora - how often you see them at all(and outside defences)?

Harrow - does he appear somewhere aside from Eidolons?

Octavia - 1h+ survivals?

Atlas - ...i dont remember the last time i've seen that frame at all.

I actually brushed off my Khora this week to compare her area denial to Vauban's.  I actually ran into quite a few other Khora players in my testing, since I was on the lookout.  As an aside, I can say that a large range Strangledome is just better than Bastille.  Add on her damage and utility, and she's just a better area defense / CC frame.  The more recent frames tend to have a diverse (but 'themed') kit, which allows them to do multiple things well.  This is where older frames are showing their age, as the power creep on newer frames is real. 

As for your list, I see Gara and Khora a decent amount, I see Harrow's aplenty in the Graxx skin, and Atlas is uncommon, but you have to like that aesthetic and be into punching dudes to get much playtime on him.  Octavia's, I see everywhere, all the time.  

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

5 hours ago, Sintag said:

And this said, while yes, Vortex and Bastille are somewhat redundant and shouldn't both be on the same kit, redundancy isn't my #1 issue with Vauban.  My major issue is that his 1 and 2 are both dead weight nine times out of ten as they are.

For me the redundancy of his two useful abilities is an issue, but I also think the issue with his abilities other than Bastille are that they are damage dealing and rely on power strength yet almost any useful build in his current state destroys his power strength. He's stretched too thin but the trade-off in stats for isn't worth it since his damage will never be more useful than his control. 

Having decent secondary effects on his abilities could really help with that so he doesn't have to be min/maxxed to be effective.

Edited July 12, 2018 by (PS4)Riko_113