Delete Submersible

[LurksInCorners]

• Archwing already has its own problems.
• Archwing being a requirement to unlock 30+ content is annoying on its own. Needing it for levels that aren't actually Archwing levels is like a spit in the face
• Feels like moving through molasses, the opposite of the purpose of Archwing.
• Adds challenge only in the way that controls are an aberration to video games and nothing to do with skill or learning.
• The surface animation sequence is bugged in perspective/collision, is purely static, and is too long, giving an unavoidable window for enemies to one-shot you.
• Literally nothing about it is fun; half-interior, half-space with archwing is infinitely more desirable.
• Transitioning from mad fast-paced hack-n-slash instantly into some kind of terrible deep-sea dive simulator for a few seconds is incredibly jarring and sometimes ruins the immersion and/or flow.
• Underwater space is abhorrent: A mix of incredibly narrow winding corridors with often irremovable obstacles and giant spaces with hard-to-differentiate terrain (RIP colourblind).
• Spy missions:

Spoiler

• Canals, both rocky and metal, in spy rooms disallow a player to properly recognise their surroundings, being so narrow that both body and vision colliding with walls all the time.
• Wind tunnels deceptively don't offer chance for recovery as the push can cause unpredictable uncontrolled movement on top of the fact that controls are irredeemably poor in response.
• Only one Archwing specialisation option that provides any benefit (Itzal) to completing the Spy mission, and that benefit is marginally effective; Archwings don't belong in an interior Spy.
• Using the obviously more irritating form of movement to travel a barely-readable path as a punishment for making a mistake and triggering alarms says a lot about what it stands for.

But it's the Underwater Level. What else can you expect?

See title.

EDIT: To clarify, Sea Lab tileset is fine enough otherwise.
EDIT: I understand that deleting it out of nowhere isn't a real solution, it was just frustrated rhetoric. Title might be counter-productive.

Edited July 24, 2018 by LurksInCorners

[mosaickle]

I feel like I should be concerned that your approach to a problem is to remove it rather than help fix it...

[GinKenshin]

You do know that means removing like half of the maps for the tile set right? You really expect them to change all of that just because some people hate it? If you don’t like it then don’t do missions on it, just go through it and move on, and also stuff like quests or alerts...etc, not fissures because these appear elsewhere 

[Myscho]

[LurksInCorners]

25 minutes ago, mosaickle said:

I feel like I should be concerned that your approach to a problem is to remove it rather than help fix it...

Say that to DE. RIP Trials.

17 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

You do know that means removing like half of the maps for the tile set right? You really expect them to change all of that just because some people hate it? If you don’t like it then don’t do missions on it, just go through it and move on, and also stuff like quests or alerts...etc, not fissures because these appear elsewhere 

I'm not ignorant to the difficulties of level design, though to be fair they've made modifications to tilesets before but it certainly takes a long time. I know just going on a whim deleting it without any work just because it's an insufferable garbage heap isn't a real solution, as it's a necessary part of the mission progression. The "Delete Submersible" thing is just rhetoric to express how much Submersible has failed at whatever it was supposed to do, not an immediate suggestion. Removing opportunities from myself or just 'dealing with it' isn't a real solution either. Because of the whim of whatever arcane workings that determines Sortie levels, alerts and so on, I should delete Submersible from my own playtime and sacrifice actually desirable rewards? I should just deal with the suffering if I really want something? Playing a game you enjoy shouldn't occasionally be suffering because of an archaic failed idea that nobody asked for.
The purpose of this post was to bring attention to a part of the game that is clearly flawed and not enjoyable for the most part (and to vent really because goddamn Uranus Spy). Sometimes underwater combat can be kind of amusing, but the way it handles and feels needs improvement..

Edited July 24, 2018 by LurksInCorners

[Dhrekr]

25 minutes ago, LurksInCorners said:

Spy missions:

Of course, we also have to say that Uranus spy missions are extremely simple if you know what you are doing. Also two of the three spy missions can be done while completely avoiding Archwing.

 

To the broader topic: submersible is not going to be removed. DE is working to create more missions where you seamlessly jump from normal play to AW (i.e. the Railjack mode). That's the direction of the game.

Also I don't know how you manage to be one-shotted during the surface animation.

 

Game could be a little bit more colourblind-friendly, I guess.

[LurksInCorners]

9 minutes ago, Dhrekr said:

To the broader topic: submersible is not going to be removed. DE is working to create more missions where you seamlessly jump from normal play to AW (i.e. the Railjack mode). That's the direction of the game.

I'm fine with Archwing if it's in SPACE or SKY. That's very thoroughly enjoyable even if the handling is still a bit iffy. Railjack has me thoroughly intrigued and aroused. It's not really a good defense for Submersible, because Submersible doesn't even feel like Archwing. The Archwing part of it is largely arbitrary really. We're bloody plasteel tinsuits controlled by space wizards and have shielding, why don't we just swim or walk.

9 minutes ago, Dhrekr said:

Also I don't know how you manage to be one-shotted during the surface animation.

10 minutes ago, Dhrekr said:

Also two of the three spy missions can be done while completely avoiding Archwing.

Sortie 3. A Grineer scorpion that I couldn't see until I was mid-animation one-shot me because that wind-down animation was long enough for me to be effectively perfectly still for the duration of its attack wind-up. I don't want to think about Napalms and Bombards.

Edited July 24, 2018 by LurksInCorners

[Dhrekr]

1 minute ago, LurksInCorners said:

Sortie 3. A Grineer scorpion that I couldn't see until I was mid-animation one-shot me because that wind-down animation was long enough for me to be effectively perfectly still for the duration of its attack wind-up. I don't want to think about Napalms and Bombards.

I guess you might be a bit more careful when exiting the water during Sorties. There's no "I couldn't see" if you use the scanner, which I'm pretty sure has a larger reach than a Scorpion's knife.

 

Hey, there is no denying that the Submarine part could be improved. It should be improved. But this sort of calls for deletion aren't going to even register with DE.

[LurksInCorners]

5 minutes ago, Dhrekr said:

I guess you might be a bit more careful when exiting the water during Sorties. There's no "I couldn't see" if you use the scanner, which I'm pretty sure has a larger reach than a Scorpion's knife.

 

Hey, there is no denying that the Submarine part could be improved. It should be improved. But this sort of calls for deletion aren't going to even register with DE.

Getting the scanner out every now and then while underwater with stupid high level SWIMBOIZ after you is a bit of a hassle. Could always bind it to a hotkey I guess.

Like I said in a previous response, I know just deleting it completely on the fly isn't a real solution. It was just provocative, inflammatory, hyperbole, rhetorical because of frustration. I might change the title to be a little clearer my intentions I guess.

EDIT: hmm I guess you can't change titles

Edited July 24, 2018 by LurksInCorners

[Dhrekr]

1 minute ago, LurksInCorners said:

Getting the scanner out every now and then while underwater with stupid high level SWIMBOIZ after you is a bit of a hassle. Could always bind it to a hotkey I guess.

... bind it now. Seriously. I know this feels like my answers are descending into "l2p", but part of your complaints are just low-level gameplay challenges.

Just like the very simple Uranus Spy missions, for two of which you don't need Archwing.

[Julian_Skies]

For what's worth I also like using the Elytron for submersible spy because the guided rocket can kill those pesky power conduits easily.

[Areqs]

I hate them too, I can never tell whats going on and as soon as I hit the water I become basically blind and require people to guide me out, too many twisting paths, constantly getting turned around, it's just an overall pain in the ass.

[LurksInCorners]

On 2018-07-24 at 6:32 PM, Dhrekr said:

... bind it now. Seriously. I know this feels like my answers are descending into "l2p", but part of your complaints are just low-level gameplay challenges.

Just like the very simple Uranus Spy missions, for two of which you don't need Archwing.

Something being easy doesn't make it okay. Tedium is abominable and restricting player agency is a big no-no ALMOST ALWAYS. I never do Sealab Spy except for Sorties, in which all terminals are required (it's popped up more often than you'd think). I've found it gets failed the most often whether it's by me or by someone else if I'm in public because the submersible is too tedious; it's not a challenge it's just a hassle because of unpredictability of submersible controls.

[Dhrekr]

3 hours ago, LurksInCorners said:

I've found it gets failed the most often whether it's by me or by someone else if I'm in public because the submersible is too tedious; it's not a challenge it's just a hassle because of unpredictability of submersible controls.

Two out of three of the vaults can be done without using submarine. Like, not even having to get your Syandana wet.

The third one, and the one that forces you to using the archwing, is the water "maze", so to say (yes, it's not an actual maze, it's a twisted corridor). The only danger in that vault is that there are those annoying water drains that will trigger an alarm - however you can safely disable them, and at that point there is no danger of failing. No matter how poorly you handle the "unpredictable" commands, you just have to go through a harmless corridor.

 

By the way, I haven't said, but I do not like the underwater archwing. I find it clunky and tedious - which is why I explored the vaults and found the other ways. Also, I am a mediocre player: I don't want any of this to sound like "hurr durr I can because I am the best"- it's more of "even mediocre players can have no problem".

DE thought about people like you and me. They gave us the mild challenge of "you actually have to explore the vault a bit and think about what you're doing".

Some of us beat the challenge.

And to those of us who beat the challenge, you sound like "omg how am I supposed to travel through a harmless corridor this is so difficult".

Edited August 2, 2018 by Dhrekr

[5H4DE]

What if instead of archwing we would just swim with our warframes?I mean, to be honest it doesn't make sense that we can't swim and any water deeper than knee level will send us back to the shore (PoE lakes for example) .

Edited August 2, 2018 by TheRealShade

[Dhrekr]

8 minutes ago, TheRealShade said:

What if instead of archwing we would just swim with our warframes?I mean, to be honest it doesn't make sense that we can't swim and any water deeper than knee level will send us back to the shore (PoE lakes for example) .

That is just the devs not wanting to create a new set of movement animations/parcour/firing animations for swimming warframes.

And not wanting to do even more work for PoE by having to draw and map and code the bottom of the lakes and of the sea.

 

Which is why they minimized the amount of work required by (1) recycling AW commands; and (2) not implementing PoE water travel.

"What if we could just swim with out warframes" is basically like asking "what if some DE departments spent some months of work on water travel instead of working at, say, shipping Venus as soon as possible". I'll take Venus 🙂

[(PSN)kingdomkey599879]

Also i just want to point out that sharkwing is kind of apart of the second dream quest as well. meaning if they delete submersibles then they effectively kill the quest as well.

just kind of thought i'd drop this in here....