Wukong: The forgotten Warframe

[DeMonkey]

19 minutes ago, AquaDragon42 said:

True Steel.  I honestly dont see the use of Primal Fury because it mostly helps when you have a good kill flow going and if you have that going you dont really need a bonus to damage.

It gives you an additional 25% crit chance, and stacks easily. If you're building his Staff for damage then you need the augment.

[Fuzzydragon]

4 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Unless you're advocating for Wukong's removal, this doesn't really hold much relevance. Wukong can, even in his current state, be plenty of fun.

Some don't find him fun, some do, it's really besides the point. We can make better arguments for reworking him than "I don't find him fun".

Im advocating for the outright replacement or rework of his skill set.

if you keep his 4 add more combo variation to his stance or alter it with the use of his 1 to switch between his heavy rod for more focussed attack and its long state for more area clearing.

Keeping with the character he is based on Cloud walker could be replaced by a shape shifting stealth where in a puff of smoke he takes the form of a close by targeted enemy prompting the confused mobs to shoot their own guy.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Fuzzydragon

[-Onyx-AquaDragon42]

7 minutes ago, Fuzzydragon said:

Im advocating for the outright replacement or rework of his skill set.

if you keep his 4 add more combo variation to his stance or alter it with the use of his 1 to switch between his heavy rod for more focussed attack and its long state for more area clearing.

Keeping with the character he is based on Cloud walker could be replaced by a shape shifting stealth where in a puff of smoke he changes into a close by targeted enemy prompting the confused mobs to shoot their own guy.

Honestly as interesting as that sounds I think him making specters of himself to reference his ability to make copies of himself would not only be referencing one of his most well known traits but also be easier for DE to program since they already have specter AI in the game.

[Fuzzydragon]

5 minutes ago, AquaDragon42 said:

Honestly as interesting as that sounds I think him making specters of himself to reference his ability to make copies of himself would not only be referencing one of his most well known traits but also be easier for DE to program since they already have specter AI in the game.

Yeah but it would add more character and uniqueness to his frame than having an ability that would be easily compaired to others.

Edited July 31, 2018 by Fuzzydragon

[-Onyx-AquaDragon42]

4 minutes ago, Fuzzydragon said:

Yeah but it would add more uniqueness to his frame than having an ability that would be easily compaired to others.

Maybe, but I see Wukong as a tanky melee brawler with his Defy an Iron Staff (just my oppinion) and honestly an ability like that does not sound like it would fit the kit, sounds something more like what Loki might do.

 

[DeMonkey]

33 minutes ago, Fuzzydragon said:

Im advocating for the outright replacement or rework of his skill set.

Good. 

[-Onyx-AquaDragon42]

5 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Good. 

I do think they should keep the concept of the Iron Staff though since it is pretty much one of the most iconic pieces when it comes to Wukong as a character from his story and his primary weapon (not to mention his only weapon except for maybe one or two fights).  

In addition I think they should keep the psudo-immortality if we are going off the character again since he is immortal in at least 4 different ways. Not even the gods could kill him and they threw everything at him.

[DeMonkey]

15 minutes ago, AquaDragon42 said:

I do think they should keep the concept of the Iron Staff though since it is pretty much one of the most iconic pieces when it comes to Wukong as a character from his story and his primary weapon (not to mention his only weapon except for maybe one or two fights).  

In addition I think they should keep the psudo-immortality if we are going off the character again since he is immortal in at least 4 different ways. Not even the gods could kill him and they threw everything at him.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/963122-primal-fury-20/

I made that thread which basically covered all the things Primal Fury needs to do, imo. 

And yeah, some level of immortality is to be expected. We just need to work for it more imo.

Iron Jab can rot in a bin. We don't need 2 stick abilities. 

[-Onyx-Phalian]

15 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/963122-primal-fury-20/

I made that thread which basically covered all the things Primal Fury needs to do, imo. 

And yeah, some level of immortality is to be expected. We just need to work for it more imo.

Iron Jab can rot in a bin. We don't need 2 stick abilities. 

Same with Cloud Walker, having 3 channeled abilities is just way too much. 

[DeMonkey]

1 hour ago, Phalian said:

Same with Cloud Walker, having 3 channeled abilities is just way too much. 

I have a cloud walker replacement thread somewhere as well :3

[-Onyx-Phalian]

9 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I have a cloud walker replacement thread somewhere as well :3

Perhaps we should help DE think of new abilities by listing off all of Wukong's tricks and abilities from the story. Especially since WUKONG NEVER LEARNED CLOUD WALKING! Yes he could fly on a cloud but he couldn't fly by himself. 

[DeMonkey]

10 minutes ago, Phalian said:

Perhaps we should help DE think of new abilities by listing off all of Wukong's tricks and abilities from the story. Especially since WUKONG NEVER LEARNED CLOUD WALKING! Yes he could fly on a cloud but he couldn't fly by himself. 

Oh I've tried, numerous times. And yes, whilst his ability was to transform into a cloud I believe the ability was named for the boots he stole along with his armour, which were cloud walking boots.

[LightningsVengance]

He'll probably get a come around slightly before Wukong Prime's release, like Hydroid.

[UltraLYT]

Because of Defy, Wukong is the ultimate warframe who allows the tenno to completely rely on and test the true power of the weapons.  The immortality requires the tenno to mainly use powerful weapons to fight high level enemies because there is no damage buff, building up a wide range of powerful weapons takes a long time, this is probably why Wukong is much less appealing than many other warframes that can do instant widespread AoE damage.

But Wukong is the most reliable solo warframe when the tenno has built up a wide range of powerful weapons, the level of immortality due to Defy must at least be kept, otherwise this unique warframe will be completely destroyed.  Furthermore, his immortality is also consistent to the lore in which it is said that even the emperor of heaven is afraid of Wukong, only the Buddha (Tathagata) could detain him.

The speed of Cloud Walker makes no sense as according to the lore Wukong is able to traverse 108,000 miles as he flips just once in his cloud.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

Lets be fair, if wukong ingame followed lore accurately he would be the most op character not just in warframe but any videogame i have ever played.

He is like the first ever self insertion of a super op fan character but actually written into the origonal work by an author 😂

[-Onyx-AquaDragon42]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)ForNoPurpose said:

Lets be fair, if wukong ingame followed lore accurately he would be the most op character not just in warframe but any videogame i have ever played.

He is like the first ever self insertion of a super op fan character but actually written into the origonal work by an author 😂

The funny thing is that Wukong has multiple chapters in the beginning of the book dedicated to him just to find out he is the bodyguard to the main character.

[DeMonkey]

6 hours ago, modalmojo said:

But Wukong is the most reliable solo warframe when the tenno has built up a wide range of powerful weapons

 Not really, his staff is powerful enough.

Again, if anyone is struggling for damage then your build isn't good. Not just your build on the staff itself, but your Warframe build.

Never recorded before, don't know what I'm doing, don't really care. Half the mission didn't actually get saved but whatever.

It makes my point, at least.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Am 30.7.2018 um 00:16 schrieb (PS4)big_eviljak:

His iron staff is more op than exaLted blade. Slap the gladiator mods on wukong, make sure u have drifting contact on the iron staff as well as both umbral mods, then stack elements and reach and u can literally take enemies at any tier with ease.

Yeah....no.

http://imgur.com/gallery/tqI7izl

That's another way to build him on which you could not only implement some gladiator mods to get crit multipliers but in fact get all, crit, combo and CO adding to your melee range strikes. Faster then wukong and on more range of course.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

27 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Yeah....no.

http://imgur.com/gallery/tqI7izl

That's another way to build him on which you could not only implement some gladiator mods to get crit multipliers but in fact get all, crit, combo and CO adding to your melee range strikes. Faster then wukong and on more range of course.

I utilize duration for both of my umbra builds. Each to their own. I do not use efficiency mods for him either. Again, preference wins.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 13 Minuten schrieb (PS4)big_eviljak:

I utilize duration for both of my umbra builds. Each to their own. I do not use efficiency mods for him either. Again, preference wins.

Perk of that build is the option to continiously cast slash dash what not only gives him gigantic invulnerability windows and potential invisibility (huras kubrow) what eliminates wukongs only advantage but also raises his damage (closer to the enemy=less decay, combo multipliers) what eliminates whatever advantage you're giving him...there's just nothing better about wukong right now.

[UltraLYT]

13 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

 Not really, his staff is powerful enough.

Again, if anyone is struggling for damage then your build isn't good. Not just your build on the staff itself, but your Warframe build.

Never recorded before, don't know what I'm doing, don't really care. Half the mission didn't actually get saved but whatever.

It makes my point, at least.

Those are lvl 40+ enemies, any warframe ability can deal with them with no problem, his staff is of course powerful enough.

I meant to say that Wukong is the most reliable solo warframe at the level of sortie bosses and up, I do not use his staff but choose a suitable weapon from my arsenal, depending on the situation.  Being able to freely use different weapons to solo the sortie boss is more versatile and also more interesting than using just one staff, his Defy provides this freedom.  At high level (lvl 100 and beyond), a build focused on Defy is also necessary, that is why powerful weapons are relevant in this case. 

Now our exalted weapons can be built separately from the Warframe mods, maybe one can build a truly powerful Primal Fury to accomplish high level runs, however Primal Fury is mainly impact based with no slash...  Its effectiveness remains to be seen.

[DeMonkey]

6 minutes ago, modalmojo said:

Those are lvl 40+ enemies, any warframe ability can deal with them with no problem, his staff is of course powerful enough.

Any? There are plenty of abilities that will struggle to kill level 40 enemies.

However, my point was more centred around the OP's statement that the staff doesn't do enough damage, so when you referred to Wukong needing a powerful weapon I thought I'd once again push the fact that the staff is powerful enough from a damage perspective.

[UltraLYT]

21 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Any? There are plenty of abilities that will struggle to kill level 40 enemies.

However, my point was more centred around the OP's statement that the staff doesn't do enough damage, so when you referred to Wukong needing a powerful weapon I thought I'd once again push the fact that the staff is powerful enough from a damage perspective.

Like you said, "if anyone is struggling for damage then your build isn't good", right?  Of course, one might need to completely build around a relatively weak ability in order to kill level 40 enemies, which nobody would normally do, but stronger abilities with regular builds certainly have no problem, like your staff in the vid. 

I wasn't responding to a specific point raised by OP, I was just sharing my experience with Wukong.

As a side note, I vaguely remember quite a long time ago that I tested Primal Fury in the simulacrum with 20 x lvl 150 heavy gunners, it is a quick way to stress test my weapons and warframe, I found that Primal Fury was less powerful than many of my weapons, plus the fact that using Primal Fury drains more energy in addition to Defy, as a result it was harder for Wukong to survive in the stress test (Wukong with just Defy has no problem at all), that is why I do not use Primal Fury to do high level runs.  

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, modalmojo said:

Like you said, "if anyone is struggling for damage then your build isn't good", right?  Of course, one might need to completely build around a relatively weak ability in order to kill level 40 enemies, which nobody would normally do, but stronger abilities with regular builds certainly have no problem, like your staff in the vid. 

I didn't build around it though. Aside from the speed mod the staff is literally unmodded. All the damage came from mods and gear I would be using regardless. If it's killing level 40's (and given that I went to 20 minutes before quitting) level 60's with not much problem, it does even better once fully modded.

And yeah, far too many other weapons will outperform the Iron Staff, but it's not because the Iron Staff lacks damage. Time and time again I see people requesting damage buffs for it when simply increasing the damage it deals won't help it in the slightest.

[UltraLYT]

29 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I didn't build around it though. Aside from the speed mod the staff is literally unmodded. All the damage came from mods and gear I would be using regardless. If it's killing level 40's (and given that I went to 20 minutes before quitting) level 60's with not much problem, it does even better once fully modded.

And yeah, far too many other weapons will outperform the Iron Staff, but it's not because the Iron Staff lacks damage. Time and time again I see people requesting damage buffs for it when simply increasing the damage it deals won't help it in the slightest.

Too bad Iron Staff is less stellar than other exalted weapons, like Exalted Blade.  In the aforementioned stress test, unlike Iron Staff, Exalted Blade is able to finish 20 x lvl 155 heavy gunners in a short time, no invulnerability is needed, Exalted Blade synergies well with Radial Blind/Howl to increase its effectiveness and the survivability.  Some works need to be done to make the whole kit of Wukong interrelated and more interesting to use.

Thanks.