Give Nezha some love pls DE

[Doomsknightmare]

He's one of the least used frames according to the data given by DE in Devstream115, his Deluxe skin is coming, and we already have tons of Nezha rework threads in the forum... 

Needless to say, we all hope to see some change for him when his Deluxe arrives and here's my two cents :

Passive : Not bad, at least sliding with Nezha is fun

Firewalker : Looks fun yet not good in a real fight. It's so bad that I don't even know how to improve it tbh, with an even worse Augment...  In short It's basically a worse version of Oberon's Hallowed Ground. Its synergy with Blazing Chakram is also clunky.

Blazing Chakram : Probably the worst healing in the game  Enemies struck by the chakram are ragdolled and sent flying yet you need to kill that guy before ability duration runs out and due to its awful healing range you need to get closer before you kill in case you wanna get healed OMG pls just triple its healing range for godsake. Another bad Augment as well. If the Augement can repenish Warding Halo's health then it's worth taking up a mod slot.

Warding Halo : Nice for our squishy Nezha, with a decent Augment !

Divine Spears : Decent CC though the forced slam animation could get Nezha killed in certain situation. Bad damage output with no scaling and no status proc.  

 In conclusion, Nezha is a jack of all trade frame with a flawed skill set, his damage output and support are really bad, and his CC and survivability are just half decent.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Doomsknight

[(PSN)NewcastleDisease]

as nezha is my all-day-fav-frame, my 2 cents:

personally i don't want to see any changes on Nezha... i like the way he already is, espacially the sliding abilities. All other Abilities are ok/good in combo, warding halo is good on his own, even without any augments. As i play lvl 80 missions with him without dying, can't say he is bad. it's just not a tank and not designed to run straight through enemies. his agility is his keyfeature....

may only the spears could be a little more effective i think..  

but there could be more optical options 😄

 

[zNightWolfz]

only thing id like to see is a augment like rhinos that readds health to halo the same way rhinos augment does

[(PSN)NewcastleDisease]

vor 59 Minuten schrieb zNightWolfz:

only thing id like to see is a augment like rhinos that readds health to halo the same way rhinos augment does

ok, agree 😄

 

[(PSN)RockstarJungle]

Op, is Nezha your main frame? I really do hate when people base their ideas off of what works for other frames to every frame they consider needs a re-work. If he is, then disregard this. 

firewalker can deal more damage, i wouldn't mind it. 

for the spears, I wish people would stop trying to turn him into a Mind-less Nuke frame with the ultimate damage. his spears is a two part combo, Not just a button press and kill everything. and all though it is irrelevant now (i think) because of all the Instant-ability-kill-everything damage frames, it still has his personality built into the animations, why remove one? If you dont like nezha for his persona, then why like him at all? IF mindless damage is what you are after then its better choices. 

that said, i wouldnt mind the spears to scale. i do agree with any upgrades though. as long as they dont remove anything from him.

 

this post was more of a adding to the thread, rather than a direct response, which is why i didnt quote. lol 

Edited August 20, 2018 by (PS4)RockstarJungle

[Doomsknightmare]

4 hours ago, (PS4)RockstarJungle said:

Op, is Nezha your main frame? I really do hate when people base their ideas off of what works for other frames to every frame they consider needs a re-work. If he is, then disregard this. 

firewalker can deal more damage, i wouldn't mind it. 

for the spears, I wish people would stop trying to turn him into a Mind-less Nuke frame with the ultimate damage. his spears is a two part combo, Not just a button press and kill everything. and all though it is irrelevant now (i think) because of all the Instant-ability-kill-everything damage frames, it still has his personality built into the animations, why remove one? If you dont like nezha for his persona, then why like him at all? IF mindless damage is what you are after then its better choices. 

that said, i wouldnt mind the spears to scale. i do agree with any upgrades though. as long as they dont remove anything from him.

 

this post was more of a adding to the thread, rather than a direct response, which is why i didnt quote. lol 

Yeah he is one of my main frames (I even built a second Nezha for my Umbra mod build) 

I'm not a fan of OP nuker (the new Saryn and Volt kill the fun too fast) and I do respect your opinion about keeping his persona. If DE could make the slam animaton invincible then it's fine, as I don't like removing his signature slam move either.

As for his Divine Spear damage, I think it should keep Slash proc on enemies until they're slamed on the ground, which is fair for Nezha and won't be OP.

[-Ayon-]

I like all of his abilities, they just need to make them better. 

[LapuLapo]

A small note, I feel like Blazing Chakram is just way too big and clunky with the way it moves around geometry. It always looks like it's bugging out unpredictably. Which severely limits it's usability. I feel like if it maybe had a smaller hitbox or just had base punchthrough it would feel alright (The augment could change it to add flightspeed instead of punchthrough in this scenario) 

Another idea would be to make the Chakram bounce (predictably) between enemies that have been speared with 4. So there's at least some situation where you'd know that you can get good mileage out of the chakram without relying on weird disc physics.

[Dvvolf]

Chakram just needs more bounce either make it so that it combos into his 4 or make it bounce between enemies more. I want to have more tricky stuff or mixes between his abilities. My only problem with nezha is that going for duration build doesn't give him enough damage to justify it. Presonally I use nezha because of his agility, shield and crowd control. Problem is if that's everything I need I end up not using his 1 or 2 and going for -duration and high range because his spears don't catch new enemies coming in. I usually instantly slam enemies to the ground and finish them off while they try to stand up. Burning enemies with his 1 isn't as good as having every enemy lying down on the floor. That's my main issue with him. I want more use out of duration builds because they look cool but aren't as practical in my opinion. 

[-Ayon-]

When a new enemy comes into range a new spear catches the enemy, but then a old spear slams an enemy down and also creating a fire proc, or maybe that could be an augment.

Edited August 21, 2018 by -Ayon-

[Ohmlink]

Not that I play nezha alot but a few ideas I have

Give fire walker a small aoe around nezha like a meter or 2 so it's easier for allies to use as well as making it deal damage when you run up to an enemy without running past them.

Allow chakram to heal warding halo.

Remove the second cast animation of spears.

I think that would fix the issues I have with him without changing his skills.

[bbwb]

I think Nezha could have a soft pass on each skill and be put into a really great spot (like from B- tier to A). First big change imo would be allowing Nezha to refresh his shield through some mechanic. Obviously the most quick fix idea would be to allow Nezha to recast shield, which is fine, but I think it could be more fun to differentiate from Iron Skin more (while still being fairly reliably recast-able). 

For this change I'd like to introduce Nezha's Sash, this is an important part of his imagery if you google him you'll see it pretty consistently - this will be a small icon near the bottom left (a bit like Nidus has a mutation meter) except this one will be a neat icon that represents four pieces of a scarf (thinking a continuous scarf that glows in sections, so all four would be a full scarf).

Also if DE wants they could make it some sort of bonus market store item (Nezha's scarf (sash really), doubt they could get the sash completed before deluxe skin comes out but that'd be cool bundle.

Spoiler

 

Now I'll go out of order just for sense:

Nezha

[2] Blazing Chakram: Each enemy AND ally hit leaves a binding fiery sash* around them that after 3 seconds will either constrict and stun the enemy with 25% chakram damage or wrap around the ally and chakram heal 25%  (to that target only, doesn't cause another chakram). Like before if you press 2 while 2 is active you teleport to chakram location. There is now a soft homing for the first target if there was one (which ever the reticle was pointed at ally or enemy), and the total distance traveled is buffed slightly (to improve teleport utility if aimed at nothing).

When you pass by a sash you activate the effect immediately and collect a Sash (conceptually I'd say you "extend or empower" his sash), if nothing was hit but teleport was used Nezha gains one Sash.

If you press 2 while 1 is active each enemy or ally in the radius will receive an additional sash - meaning if you hit them with the chakram and then exploded on their face they'll have two sashes. To be clear the 2 1 combo is already in the game, just added that each enemy and ally hit in this radius is also sashed now. 

(Established this ability is how he generates sash power)

*His sash is absolutely a core part of this character (in mythology), like his spear, ring, and fire walkers are. A quick glance you might just call it a scarf but it's called Red Armillary Sash in English (and I'm going to be all over the place on which to call it lol). 

 

[1] Fire Walker: (first interaction, passive) Passively for each Sash the fire left behind from fire walker becomes harder to escape pulling nearby enemies into the fire (once) and slowing them on their way out. Rate and slow increased for each sash. 

(second interaction, consumes 1 portion of the sash) When you pass by your divine spear and have a sash you can dash around the target (grabs pole and completes a 180 giving a boost to sliding momentum/speed), the enemy will be tangled with a fiery sash (that can be nullified) and that enemy will now emit (and take damage from) your fire walker effects until you cancel fire walker.

This means they will take the fire walker dot and pass damage to others around them for the entire time you keep fire walker up, it'll also mean that allies can walk by this enemy to remove status effects. The fire sash bound enemy doesn't leave a trail it is merely emitted from the sash bound around them.

 

[3] Warding Halo: (consumes 3 portions of the sash) Three sashes can be consumed to recast warding halo on Nezha (as Rhino can) for half energy cost, old remaining shield value will turn into a pulse heal. (Sash will be consumed because you can't recast it normally, so if you don't want to consume them don't try to cast it until it's expired).

 

[4] Divine Spears: (consumes x portions) Holding 4 will consume a sash each second, improving the ability at each stage. Range and damage is buffed at each stage, at 2 passing by a spear will reduce Nezha's friction for the duration of spears being up, at 4 for each enemy killed one more enemy will be hit by the spear (duration for that spear is cut in a third, enemies cannot be re-impaled).

An idea by Dvvolf that I'm really fond of is that the spears become tied together with his sash, at least if he used his sash to empower the skill. The visual potential of that would be really cool, imagine a Chinese festival almost ~! 😄.

As an aside I think Nezha's skill while keeping their animation times should all be cast-able without any movement stop (including divine spears).

 

With the sash charges coming from chakram Nezha will be running across the battlefield as he should be (throwing the disc will keep movement across the field), fire dancing throughout the area to pick up sashes and apply fire, his chakram becoming a bit more reliable with soft homing and light reapplication from the sash countdown mechanic, and halo gaining some really nice quality of life mechanics (recast able, and because of the pulse heal he'll want to run by allies to give a few lovely health taps).

It is quite funny to play a lot of Nezha and then feel the whole world come to a grinding halt when you go play another frame. "Why is slide so bad, omg! Oh right I'm not Nezha". Sometimes I'm afraid to play him just so I don't feel like my other frames are slow. Go Nezha Go :3

Edited August 23, 2018 by bbwb

[Dvvolf]

I like your ideas but you forgot that there are augments too. Recasting Halo might be a bad idea if used together with Safeguard augment. The current augment for his chakram could be changed so that it heals warding halos (yes halos safeguard should work too). It's not even that big of a buff considering that it takes up a mod slot, costs energy and requires aiming (compare that to rhino's armor). I can't imagine DE actually doing a rework right now (probably have to wait till we get a prime version) so I try to keep it simple for now. We still haven't seen his 4th augment. Maybe add a sash between impaled enemies to block or burn them ? or grow lotus flowers on top of each spear that either buff, heal or deal dmg ? There is still some room for an upgrade.

[bbwb]

On 2018-08-21 at 9:56 AM, Dvvolf said:

I like your ideas but you forgot that there are augments too. Recasting Halo might be a bad idea if used together with Safeguard augment. The current augment for his chakram could be changed so that it heals warding halos (yes halos safeguard should work too). It's not even that big of a buff considering that it takes up a mod slot, costs energy and requires aiming (compare that to rhino's armor). I can't imagine DE actually doing a rework right now (probably have to wait till we get a prime version) so I try to keep it simple for now. We still haven't seen his 4th augment. Maybe add a sash between impaled enemies to block or burn them ? or grow lotus flowers on top of each spear that either buff, heal or deal dmg ? There is still some room for an upgrade.

Oh... sash tying impaled enemies together.. that actually sounds very pleasing, like if you imagine how'd that look.. That could be really really cool looking! Sort of imaging a festival almost scenery with sashes tied between enemies haha, and then they all go "hurray!" into the ground 😄 .

Good concern on the augment, I haven't bought it yet so I wasn't sure how it worked to be honest. Adjustments should be made so safeguard isn't a pain to use, for sure. Like instead of a simple press a press hold could consume the sash to recast it on self, and of course other options.

Edited August 23, 2018 by bbwb

[Dvvolf]

Yeah holding the button would probably help since as it is now you can keep on mashing 3 till you aim at an ally. We would have to be way more careful with what we aim at. Although I still think it would be better to just add a warding halo heal to his chakram. It would make sense considering that his chakram needs to be more useful. It would also distinguish him from rhino even more.

[bbwb]

6 minutes ago, Dvvolf said:

Yeah holding the button would probably help since as it is now you can keep on mashing 3 till you aim at an ally. We would have to be way more careful with what we aim at. Although I still think it would be better to just add a warding halo heal to his chakram. It would make sense considering that his chakram needs to be more useful. It would also distinguish him from rhino even more.

I think in short term and theme the chakram healing sounds good, and perhaps you can bake in light healing as just a thing because it'd be cool (even if it isn't the main source of Nezha's sustain) but the main reason why I was sticking to refresh mechanics was because you might turn on your shield and absorb little damage due to weak or few nearby enemies. Later you don't want to really heal this weak shield and rather empower your shield through the invulnerability period but also you don't want to get stuck into a stun lock instant death bolt.. so you have to run away from high damage and wait for it to roll off and then run back in with your shield on (with those precious seconds counting down). 

Being able to force reset it (like Rhino's shield) is really convenient and I was trying to maintain the convenience across, since you could turn on the shield and then get into a dangerous situation where your shield will quickly die and reset it there and make an even better shield.  

[Dvvolf]

O I see, I kind of forgot about that armor absorbtion. Yeah I think you are right on this one. Unless we get a way to gain more armor if we keep our shield up longer. Let's say if his shield absorbs 100% of its health (you have it full because of heal) then It gains x amount of armor. So the longer you keep your shield up the harder it gets same as the enemies. The only problem is that the x would have to be reasonable enough to make it good. So in the end recast might be a better solution.

[kapn655321]

My only beef with Nezha is how his hoola hoop teleport throws him outside of the level (and into the eternal void of nothing) too often.

Other than that, he's super fun.

[Mover-NeRo]

My biggest issue ..and i still dont understand why its a thing...is the second forced animation on Divine Spears.

Seriously DE, it goes against the very theme of fast, mobile Nezha. You CC enemeis , you start running and BAM you lose all momentum and do silly , not necessary animation.