New Enemies In Void Make Obsolete 90+ Weapons From Being Usable

[Garuger]

So lets break it down shall we?With the introduction of Nulifier and Bombard lots of changed that unbalanced the whole void

 

This is to cause attetion and to prove without a doubt that these 2 enemies broke the void.How? lets analazyze our enemies . Nulifier has a shield that DOES not reduce in size from damage but from hits like it was proven in this threat https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/373346-nullifiers-bubble-isnt-affected-by-damage-and-heres-proof/

so we come with a dillima we can choose to have a very fast hiting weapon that takes the shields down but if we aim only them everything else will kill us

 

Lets say we have braton (as the post ) with 30 shots it may take down the shield but the overall damage of the weapon / reload etc will be useless vs anything else . Not to mention every shot counts only as 1 shot no matter the weapon .

For example if you have an Angstrum and charge it , it will do the same damage  even if it is charged  or not. Same goes for Shotguns etc .

 

With that we come to a conclusion that the weapons we look for must not have only high magazine capicity but also high damage in order both sucefully to counter the Nulifier shield and have enough damage to kill the rest remaining enemies .So we tighten our weapons that we can use quite a bit because if you use single shot weapons like latron etc even if we bring down the shield it will respawn until we reload making us die . Thus those weapons are of especially Grinlock / Opticor / Hek / Strun along with all bows become completly irrelevant. With that a big percentage of weapons we had went down . Lets focus on what weapons can work .

 

The only weapons i came to conclusion to have both the damage and the ammo/magazine combo ability to fits our characteristics (we are talking about only for primaries atm ) are the following : Tetra/Boltor prime /Soma / Soma prime /Quanta / Braton prime . Other would be Supra / Gorgon Wraith if they had decent stats and damage (supra has them but reload is too long so you are again dead)

 

Same thing happens with burst weapons it counts the burst as 1 shot along with the explosive weapon it still is 1 . So far we had only 6 viable primary weapons from the total of 56 which makes the ratio so low almost unresonably low .

 

And now we go to the secondaries which have the same set of rules Cestras are out because even if they have good magazine ratio they have low damage and it shows so out of with them . Dex furis , akfuris , furis , all the vipers (wraith etc) are out (low damage ) , hikou , kunai , despair out also along with akstilleto , akzani . WHich leads us the viable secondaries in void are Gammacor synoid / Marelok Vaykor, marelok  / Telos akbolto ,akbolto  / brakk are the most likely weapons to be able to handle them thanks to very fast reload , damage output and auras (that help) . Thus 6 secondaries are mostly viable from a total of 57 secondaries .

 

So in total the most usable weapons in void atm are 12 from 113 . Which is just so laughable and broken . A tactic you can use is having a primary weapon to take shields (like Kohm) and finish everything with a secondaries . However the window you have to do that before the Nulifiers have regain their shields is too low . 

 

P.S:Bombards are broken because infite range snping , guided missiles , huge aoe that by pass frost and very tanky

 

My suggestion is allow penetration mods (like shred pass throught it ) along with blast ( bombards do in frost shield)and reduce the nulifier shield at least 50% or more . Imean it is bigger than the frost excimus moving globe 

 

TL:DR ; Out of 113 weapons atm only 12 of them are viable vs nulifiers and bombards in void atm which is incredibly low and forces the player to have certain weapons to be able to even have a chance to survive . Fix it asap

Edited January 5, 2015 by Garuger

[.Czern]

Penetration is great, but damage having more impact on shields would be even better.

 

Kohm is the best weapon to deal with Nullifiers, but you need lots of ammo restores to feed it.

[rechot]

yea the new void nulifier rekt my opticor play style

[UnknownGunneryChief]

Not to mention Ice Eximus Nullifiers. Those are a special type of cancer created not by DE but Devil himself.

 

And I just did a 1hr 10 mins run with 3 pubs, all 4 with Opticors built for crits, 4 CP's, and a team of Volt (shields, boost dmg by a lot), Vauban (Vortex a hallway with 1 entrance and camp there), Loki P (disarm enemies so they run into the Vortex, go Invis and pop LS when needed) and Nekros (more loot, reviving us from afar with his augment where his 1st ability revives players for his own energy, health and stuff).

 

If void would've had no Nullifiers or Bombards, it would've been too easy. Now it actually required us to switch from our Opticors to fast-firing secondaries to take down those Nullifier shields with Opticors being for everything else, and trust me, it was intense and fun. IN A PUB, mind you.

[DarknightK]

I for one would like if

 

A) Nullifier shields did not have a RoF damage cap (as you mentioned, right now they have a cap of how fast the shield radius decreases based on incoming damage, making high RoF weapons useless, but likewise makes low RoF useless as well).

 

B) Punch Through being able to penetrate Nullifier shields, just as you said.

 

These two would GREATLY improve the situation with Nullifier Crewmen, in my opinion.

 

Also, you didn't really mention how Bombards are broken :C

 

However, let me tell you just how HORRIBLY broken Arctic Nullifier Eximuses are. Those things are nightmarish abominations.

[7grims]

frames and weapons are broken, and overpowerfull, so they broke the enemy to be overpowerfull to compensate, the universe is now balanced.

 

Maybe those enemies need little tweeks, but they are manageable.

[egregiousRac]

Also, you didn't really mention how Bombards are broken :C

 

The Bombards are broken because they have none of the balancing factors of regular bombards (just like every other heavy unit added since Bombards).

[Garuger]

frames and weapons are broken, and overpowerfull, so they broke the enemy to be overpowerfull to compensate, the universe is now balanced.

 

Maybe those enemies need little tweeks, but they are manageable.

Look what is broken is endless scaling if enemies had a cap you would be able to balance everything . Because lets say a 100 level (end game enemie) had 5000 health and a end game weapon fully moded (boltor prime) was able to do 1000 health per clip it would bring it down with 5 clips lets say . Thus if a weapon(s) was inside the ratio of 7~5 clips to take an end game enemie then it would be high tier 8~11 clips mid tier and 12 + clips  low tier . It is very rough but you get the idea

[Garuger]

 

Also, you didn't really mention how Bombards are broken :C

 

However, let me tell you just how HORRIBLY broken Arctic Nullifier Eximuses are. Those things are nightmarish abominations.

n.

 added why bombards are broken

The Bombards are broken because they have none of the balancing factors of regular bombards (just like every other heavy unit added since Bombards).

^also true

[Garuger]

Not to mention Ice Eximus Nullifiers. Those are a special type of cancer created not by DE but Devil himself.

 

And I just did a 1hr 10 mins run with 3 pubs, all 4 with Opticors built for crits, 4 CP's, and a team of Volt (shields, boost dmg by a lot), Vauban (Vortex a hallway with 1 entrance and camp there), Loki P (disarm enemies so they run into the Vortex, go Invis and pop LS when needed) and Nekros (more loot, reviving us from afar with his augment where his 1st ability revives players for his own energy, health and stuff).

 

If void would've had no Nullifiers or Bombards, it would've been too easy. Now it actually required us to switch from our Opticors to fast-firing secondaries to take down those Nullifier shields with Opticors being for everything else, and trust me, it was intense and fun. IN A PUB, mind you.

I dont say we  use just 1 weapon . I just want to have more variety and be able also to use my grinlock and other kind of weapons that nulifiers kinda forbid to be used because they became a burden very soon when they stuck and tyou cant kill them fast enough

[taiiat]

This is to cause attetion and to prove without a doubt that these 2 enemies broke the void.How? lets analazyze our enemies . Nulifier has a shield that DOES not reduce in size from damage but from hits

Corrupted Nullifiers should be fixed by now. if not, all of this talk is moot, as they'd still be using the wrong Shield.

assuming they are however.

 

each Instance of Damage will reduce the Shield by a maximum amount. i would concur that this hits Precision Weapons harder than others still because of that.

i'll reiterate that. the Shield can only reduce by so much per instance of Damage.

 

and... well, like other things like that, Crits don't apply to the Nullifier Shield.

that's by far what people feel the most when shooting a Nullifier Shield. most of the Precision Weapons are Crit Weighted and therefore get hit pretty hard (double hit due to the maximum reduction rate).

 

 

most of the Weapons you cast to the side are just fine for breaking Nullifier Shields.

i encourage more playtesting to procure a better founded opinion before you decide most of the wrong Weapons are the most effective ones against a certain Enemy.

you even included atleast one Shotgun as a 'good' Weapon choice for Nullifier Shields, which clearly shows you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

(oh, and Punch-Through shouldn't pierce the Nullifier Shield. that just completely defeats the Enemy entirely. that's easymode.jpg - you have a direct counter to the Enemy that is countering some of what we're capable of doing)

 

----------

 

on a side note, i concur that the Corrupted Bombards' Missile should have a flight time. not what appears to be infinite. so you could theoretically outrun it or whatever if for some reason you can't dump it into a wall.

Edited January 5, 2015 by taiiat

[Garuger]

Corrupted Nullifiers should be fixed by now. if not, all of this talk is moot, as they'd still be using the wrong Shield.

assuming they are however.

 

each Instance of Damage will reduce the Shield by a maximum amount. i would concur that this hits Precision Weapons harder than others still because of that.

i'll reiterate that. the Shield can only reduce by so much per instance of Damage.

 

and... well, like other things like that, Crits don't apply to the Nullifier Shield.

that's by far what people feel the most when shooting a Nullifier Shield. most of the Precision Weapons are Crit Weighted and therefore get hit pretty hard (double hit due to the maximum reduction rate).

 

 

most of the Weapons you cast to the side are just fine for breaking Nullifier Shields.

i encourage more playtesting to procure a better founded opinion before you decide most of the wrong Weapons are the most effective ones against a certain Enemy.

you even included atleast one Shotgun as a 'good' Weapon choice for Nullifier Shields, which clearly shows you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

(oh, and Punch-Through shouldn't pierce the Nullifier Shield. that just completely defeats the Enemy entirely. that's easymode.jpg - you have a direct counter to the Enemy that is countering some of what we're capable of doing)

 

The only good shoty is Kohm because of magazine and works like a minigun .I did playtesting and reported my findings . As you said ampex and crit weapons are the hardest to be use because of no crit. Using penetration is not easy mode but rather gives a meaning to a mechanic that warframe does not utilize at all . As you also said "fine to break the shields" which is tru but can they do it fast enough before the shields come back or do they have the power / magazine to cntinue firing and eliminating the rest enemies ?. As the forum post showed you can use a braton mk-1 and take the shield but you can only do that .So everything i said stands solid

Edited January 5, 2015 by Garuger

[Quizel]

well, you do have a 2ndary... and multiple team mates. God forbid you (and your team) actually have to think strategically in WF O_o.  The only issue I see is the fact maybe going the extra distance beyond "1st rotation c" is now less for the casual.

 

I could agree that perhaps this sort of enemy class only spawn if playing "prestige mode" or something. Such things stand out as an outlier from the norm. There's something about WF to remain a face roll and oddly enough being fun for most players.  

 

Some are looking for the extra challenge though.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Quizel

[Azawarau]

To be fair

 

The grinlok and hek are mid tier weapons so they dont really do that well anyays

 

But Nullifiers are full of issues

[(PSN)Hooligonzo]

If that's how the Nullifier's shield works (I don't know) then it should be a red flag that the design is bad if it's counting bullets/shots.

 

It doesn't sound like a very interesting mob, though, and I say this as a guy that's been itching for new blood in the Void.

 

(And a matchmaking system.)

[Taranis49]

frames and weapons are broken, and overpowerfull, so they broke the enemy to be overpowerfull to compensate, the universe is now balanced.

 

Maybe those enemies need little tweeks, but they are manageable.

 

Problem being, nullifiers largely don't do that - they just gimp options by tanking the viability of weapons with small mags and low RoF (weapons which were already disincentivized compared to high-RoF weapons, given the horde-based nature of the game).

 

Enemies pigeon-holing the player into a particular set of weapons to remain effective was the primary reason for the switch to Damage 2.0.

 

Too many people fail to grasp the concept that other players are perfectly capable of dealing with such enemies, it's just that it largely isn't fun or engaging.

[StinkyPygmy]

Really?

Because I still rock high voids with my lanka, grinlock, marelock etc.

The only thing thats changed slightly is my play style when dealing with the new enemies.

[Deruser]

I think the best way to solve this is to decrease the damage of that ridiculous Lanka the Nullifiers are holding. This would allow the single shot weapon users to go in the globe and shoot them in the head.

[Garuger]

To be fair

 

The grinlok and hek are mid tier weapons so they dont really do that well anyays

 

But Nullifiers are full of issues

Hek with new mod was a very good weapon maybe not god tier but a good viable weapon.As for grinlock even if it was not the best i could go easily 60 min with it in t3/t4

[Garuger]

well, you do have a 2ndary... and multiple team mates. God forbid you (and your team) actually have to think strategically in WF O_o.  The only issue I see is the fact maybe going the extra distance beyond "1st rotation c" is now less for the casual.

 

I could agree that perhaps this sort of enemy class only spawn if playing "prestige mode" or something. Such things stand out as an outlier from the norm. There's something about WF to remain a face roll and oddly enough being fun for most players.  

 

Some are looking for the extra challenge though.

IF you read my post you would know it is only about strategies that involve certain weapons to be optimized towards them . Also it is not challenging to have 5 nulifier bubles tthat are stacked inside each other and protect all the enemies along being fire eximus , frost eximus etc . Negating ALL the damage from everything is too op and broken while they are able to deal very high damaging shot that can kill you just with one. They should at least reduce the size of the globe around frost eximus size and make far more rarer.It should not be a common enemie 

[Garuger]

I think the best way to solve this is to decrease the damage of that ridiculous Lanka the Nullifiers are holding. This would allow the single shot weapon users to go in the globe and shoot them in the head.

And how you deal with all the other enemies that are inside there also or another nulifier inside there? Going into the buble is something like a death wish most of the times

Really?

Because I still rock high voids with my lanka, grinlock, marelock etc.

The only thing thats changed slightly is my play style when dealing with the new enemies.

Can you share it with us how you deal new enemies?Because i might have overlooked something

Edited January 5, 2015 by Garuger

[Loswaith]

Corrupted Nulifiers areally arent as much an issue as corrupted bombards becuse you can build to counter them.  Bombards no matter how you build you cant build to counter them.  Even at around level 30 bombard rockets are doing about 2500 damage per shot (enough to kill most of the tankier caster frames, and give a bad day to the rest), nulifiers at the same point are only doing about 300-500 damage per shot.

 

Corrupted Nulifiers (even the normal ones) have one huge downside.. they die if you so much as sneeze at them.  They take less damage than most Corrupted lancers/crewman.  The furis line of side arms (even the basic furis) are exceptionally effective on nulifiers and rank anf flie units, so not sure why you dismissed them as not effective.

Edited January 5, 2015 by Loswaith

[KirukaChan]

I usually roll Sybaris/Furis/Redeemer for the Void and have little trouble. Furis is just for health recovery and Nullifier shields, although my Sybaris fires fast enough with Shred that it has little trouble with those shields if I don't feel like switching.

[fatpig84]

 

Problem being, nullifiers largely don't do that - they just gimp options by tanking the viability of weapons with small mags and low RoF (weapons which were already disincentivized compared to high-RoF weapons, given the horde-based nature of the game).

 

Enemies pigeon-holing the player into a particular set of weapons to remain effective was the primary reason for the switch to Damage 2.0.

 

Too many people fail to grasp the concept that other players are perfectly capable of dealing with such enemies, it's just that it largely isn't fun or engaging.

 

This man has the idea.

[Azawarau]

Hek with new mod was a very good weapon maybe not god tier but a good viable weapon.As for grinlock even if it was not the best i could go easily 60 min with it in t3/t4

Grinlok is literally the only rifle i touch anymore

 

Latron P and wraith just dont exist to me

 

I know w far it can go and how far behind it is...

 

But still youre absolutely right about nullifiers

 

Theyre terrible