The Increase In Drain From 9 To 11 For Cold Mods Makes It No Longer Possible To Fit 3 Different Damage Type Combinations With Any 1 Set Of Polarities.

[TheDandyLion]

This pertains to both Primary and Secondary weapons. It does not pertain to melee weapons. To summarize the issue, this increase in drain for cold mods limits build flexibility by creating a situation that no longer allows for any combination of polarities on a weapon, regardless of number of forma, to fit 3 builds with different damage type combinations. To reiterate, this situation was not present prior to the change.

 

To demonstrate this, I will walk through an example of modding a weapon and creating polarities. For my example I will use the Despair because it summarizes my current feelings. However, I will stress that this example applies to Primary weapons in the same way. I could even provide another walk through example for a Primary weapon if absolutely necessary and requested, but for now I will just say that it would be redundant.

 

Despair lvl 30 (Orokin Catalyst)

Builds: Void (A), Grineer (B), Viral ©

 

Assume all mods are max rank. First, I put the standard mods for any weapon. These are Hornet Strike, Barrel Diffusion, and Lethal Torrent. As such, I will put 3 V polarities. Next, I put the Seeker mod for Punch Through. This mod also does not change in any of the builds, so I will add a dash polarity for it. This means that 4 of the 8 slots are polarized and do not change. The drain totals to 27 out of 60 and cannot be made any lower.

 

Remember that additional polarities reduce drain for matching polarity mods and increase drain for clashing polarity mods. This means that increasing the number of polarities decreases the potential for flexibility beyond a certain point. This is an important point.

 

The next 4 slots are for elemental and damage type combinations. I will start with the Grineer build. The most common build is a combination of Radiation and Viral. This requires Convulsion, Heated Charge (not Primed Heated Charge), Pathogen Rounds, and Deep Freeze. Each of these mods now have a drain of 11. That is a total drain of 44, but it needs to be reduce to 33 to fit. This requires several additional polarities. 3 of the 4 mods have a dash polarity. Deep Freeze and all other standard cold mods have a D polarity. From here, I add 2 dash polarities. For example, I will say that now Heated Charge and Convulsion have a drain of 6 due to the added dash polarities. This means that 2 of the mods have a drain of 6 and the other 2 have a drain of 11. This is a total of 34, which means it can no longer fit. So far this means that 6 of the 8 possible mod slots have an assigned polarity, but it still cannot fit. This requires an additional polarity. That means that 7 of the 8 mods slots must be polarized to fit this combination. All but one slot must be polarized to fit this combination. However, the Despair is a weapon with a mostly Puncture centered damage spread. This means that there is a different combination that is more effective. Radiation with Puncture and Toxin is done made the same way except by replacing Deep Freeze with Bore. The mods have the same amount of drain now. To fit this, you need 1 more polarity and the only choice is another dash polarity. To summarize, there are now 3 V polarities, 4 dash polarities, and 1 slot that is not polarized. The total drain is 56.

 

Now, I will look at the Viral build with the same polarities. The first part is the same, so there are 4 slots left for elemental mods and 33 points. A full Viral build requires Pathogen Rounds, Deep Freeze, Pistol Pestilence, and Frostbite. These mods have a drain of 11, 11, 7, and 7 respectively. The total drain is 36, but the polarities must be taken into account. 3 of the remaining four slots have a dash polarity. Taking these polarities into mind, the new drains become 6, 11, 9, and 9 respectively. That puts the new drain total at 35. This means that the build cannot fit with the 33 points left. Prior to the increase, the total drain was 33 and it just barely fit perfectly.

 

There is nothing that can be done to resolve this issue and have both damage type builds possible with the same combination of polarities even though it was possible prior to this change.

 

 

That was the objective appeal with as much logical detail and precision as I could muster about the problem. Now I will focus on some subjective approaches, which will include alternative views, common arguments, and some emotional appeal.

 

Honestly, think about this in depth has made me very sad. It comes with some rather unfortunate realizations. The first is that most players will not even notice this problem because they do not use Punch Through mods at all and just put an additional damage type mod. From their point of view, they could argue that it is my Punch Through mods that are causing this problem, which from their view is just my personal problem, rather than a larger issue. Let's say that hypothetically they are right. Then that just makes me really sad. I like Punch Through on my weapons. I like shooting enemies through walls or other enemies. I like it the same way I like using semi-automatic weapons with slower rates of fire, higher damage per shot, lower magazines, and quick reload speeds. I like it the same way as having longer range on my melee weapons. It is a choice that I enjoy. It is easy to attribute this newly created problem to "having to make sacrifices" or "tough choices" without having to think about it too much or empathize with the issue. This just makes me incredibly sad. There are many changes happening to the game that make certain choices "less legitimate" in some way. This narrows down the amount of choices that can be made, which makes the game less enjoyable as a whole. By being unable to account for builds with different damage types, it narrows down the choices that can be made. It is also incredibly dismissive to say such a thing about "tough choices" or "sacrifices" without having personally put in the thought, time, resources, and effort to max out Despair and 32 other weapons (I actually counted, not including any melee weapons) in order to make them just how you personally wanted them to be. Please make effort to understand this.

 

 

Now that I am done with the subjective things, I would like to propose several simple solutions.

 

*Revert the Changes: This is by far the most simple solution and would resolve the problem. It may not be the best solution in the long run.

 

***Change the D polarity on Cold mods to Dash polarity: Having one element with a different polarity from the rest is logically inconsistent and one of the attributable causes of this problem. It would be best in the long run to have thematic consistency between mods types. In the short term it would result in fewer D polarity mods. This could be resolved by changing the dual stat, 60% element and status mods to D polarity. It would fit thematically with the status % mods and result in 3 times as many D polarity mods without causing this problem. This would also be a solution to the lack of D polarity mods.

 

*Reduce the Costs of Punch Through Mods: 15 is really high for a single utility mod on a weapon with so many other high drain mods around. Reducing it to 11 would resolve the issue and put the Punch Through mods in a better place.

 

*Slightly Reduce the Drain of some Mods with Odd Numbered Drain: Reducing the drain on damage type mods from 11 to 10 would save 1 point each and resolve the issue without changing much. An 11 drain mod in polarity saves 5 points. A 10 drain mod in a polarity also saves 5 points.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

Is there a reason to keep and forma 2 copies of every weapon? Now there is. The poultry overlords demand monetary donations. But really, cold mods should stay D.

Edited March 22, 2015 by (PS4)Lord_Gremlin

[VioDuskar]

-2 mod points....

 

GG DE

 

[soundtea]

-2 mod points....

 

GG DE

 

Unless you swap out one of the mods, the loadout still works.

[Alluka]

I guess everything would be easier if you could choose which elemental combo you want on your weapon instead of priority of modslots

 

Edit: Inb4 Primed Cryo Rounds inc

Edited March 22, 2015 by Alluka

[PerishedFraud]

just turn it into a dash for crying out loud.

[Pate8]

Luckily, only my 5 forma Braton Prime was affected, I swapped out the mod and just forma-ed it a sixth time.

[(XBOX)MAXsandwich]

cant we all just go get new cold cards and not max em?

[VioDuskar]

cant we all just go get new cold cards and not max em?

why should we have to?

[(PSN)eatengeese]

cant we all just go get new cold cards and not max em?

we won't get as much damage from them

[(XBOX)MAXsandwich]

why should we have to?

We shouldnt.

I was asking a sincere question as to the viability to a work around. A fresh card lvl'd to the same dmg as it used to be means our builds would stay the same with out a dmg loss right?

Or is it the case that the new cards, when ranked up to 9 do less dmg than the used too?

I wasnt defending the change.

I think is kinda weird that they boosted the level of the cards while also maxin em out... tht decision should have been left up to the players.

 

Edited March 22, 2015 by (XB1)MAXsandwich

[TheDandyLion]

We shouldnt.

I was asking a sincere question as to the viability to a work around. A fresh card lvl'd to the same dmg as it used to be means our builds would stay the same with out a dmg loss right?

Or is it the case that the new cards, when ranked up to 9 do less dmg than the used too?

I wasnt defending the change.

I think is kinda weird that they boosted the level of the cards while also maxin em out... tht decision should have been left up to the players.

 

I think you are a bit confused. The base drain of the mod went from 4 to 6. When at max level it went from 9 to 11. Nothing else changed.

[Sh0ck-Wave]

Where this is annoying for me is that most recent weapons come with a defensive polarity slot, so your almost forced to throw the cold mod cards into them.

Then they change the mod card that they're pretty much telling you to use so your build becomes incorrect.

I normally build for blast as I've gotten used to and quite like the AoE knockdown effect, so this change has affected a ton of my weapons.

 

How my inventory stands now ..

 

Boar Prime : -1

Grinlock : -2

Hek : -1

Hind : -2

Karak : -2

Soma Prime : -2

Sybaris : -2

Tigris : -2

 

Secura Cestra's : -2

Synoid Gammacor : -1

Vaykor Marelok : -1

 

Nearly a dozen forma just to fix all that up and get it correct.

Sure if I don't touch it it'll keep on working, but still kind of annoying if I right click on the wrong mod.

 

I'm not normally one to complain about the grind, but this has potentially created a ton of needless grind for me :(

[TheDandyLion]

My inventory is a nightmare right now. I am just going to leave it until this issue gets resolved though.

[Kartumterek]

Aren't they just fixing Mod discrepancies?

[(XBOX)MAXsandwich]

I think you are a bit confused. The base drain of the mod went from 4 to 6. When at max level it went from 9 to 11. Nothing else changed.

Ahh.. so basicly they completely changed the maths.. ok. All i heard was that they increased the max cap and max dmg, figured the only changes were on the back end.

Quality over quantity & playtesting at it's finest.. welcome to Warframe.

 

[faustias]

can't you people just forma any slot on your loadout? it doesn't even have to be D-polarity.

[Sloan441]

Slap in a forma. Problem solved.

[Shugoryuu]

I'm in the same boat OP is. I hope DE will do something about this. =\

[immolator1001]

Aren't they just fixing Mod discrepancies?

"Discrepancies" which have been around since before U9...

 

Slap in a forma. Problem solved.

While I do have tons of forma I don't feel like spending the time to reforma literally a third of my weapons.

[Sloan441]

Then you'll have to settle for deranked mods.

 

If you want to optimize, you'll do what you have to or settle for substandard solutions.

 

Forma are there for a reason. Use them.

[(XBOX)MAXsandwich]

can't you people just forma any slot on your loadout? it doesn't even have to be D-polarity.

Thats kind of a f'd up attitude.. you just saw someone post above ten weapons that the builds no longer fit.. and i'm sure theres plenty more people with more than that..

"cant you people just use up or craft 10-20 forma.. then go out and re-level 10-20 weapons one after another ? whats a matter with you? buy some experience boosters like me, i buy em to support the game and the hard working men and women at Perfec.. er.. Digital Extremes"

Sorry to sound like a jerk, but show a little compassion for the ammount of time,work and materials players are going to have to sacrifice just because once again DE didnt think things through.

By all rights "these people" should be compensated.

 

Edited March 22, 2015 by (XB1)MAXsandwich

[Indyssien]

Then you'll have to settle for deranked mods.

 

If you want to optimize, you'll do what you have to or settle for substandard solutions.

 

Forma are there for a reason. Use them.

 

 

Thats kind of a f'd up attitude.. you just saw someone post above ten weapons that the builds no longer fit.. and i'm sure theres plenty more people with more than that..

"cant you people just use up or craft 10-20 forma.. then go out and re-level 10-20 weapons one after another ? whats a matter with you? buy some experience boosters like me, i buy em to support the game and the hard working men and women at Perfec.. er.. Digital Extremes"

Sorry to sound like a jerk, but show a little compassion for the ammount of time,work and materials players are going to have to sacrifice just because once again DE didnt think things through.

By all rights "these people" should be compensated.

 

 

This discourse sums up the forums in 2 consecutive posts.  This is why the game is consistently going downhill.  The defenders will not even consider arguments, no matter how eloquent or well thought out.  They just spam "DE is right" in various ways, in every thread and just dig us all deeper.   

 

Case in point:

 

Can people please just stop saying to put more forma? It makes it way too obvious that the people did not even read my post. This post would not exist if that actually solved the problem. You can put an infinite number of forma on a weapon and this problem will still be there.

 

 

They shout down that DE is right, but they don't even read that the OP has done the legwork to show that it is actually impossible to accomplish what they say a forma will solve.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Indyssien

[TheDandyLion]

Can people please just stop saying to put more forma? It makes it way too obvious that the people did not even read my post. This post would not exist if that actually solved the problem. You can put an infinite number of forma on a weapon and this problem will still be there.

[Jahadaya]

-2 mod points....

 

GG DE

 

Lol