schilds

I think we want to compare this earlier text (from https://www.warframe.com/news/the-new-war-supporter-packs) with this later text (from https://www.warframe.com/news/last-call-for-the-new-war-supporter-packs) The second says the *exclusivity* is time-limited, That is they will stop being exclusive at some point. I'm not sure the first says that? The expression "time-limited exclusives" by itself is ambiguous, but the next sentence which states that the *other* items will be available from the market after some point implies that the *marked* items won't. That said, it seems to me DE noticed the first was a mis-communication and cleared it up with the second?

I agree DE should be careful with language, but I (and obviously others) did not interpret it this way.

You know it *is* possible to participate in something because you feel "forced" to (e.g. by fomo) *and* simultaneously feel disgusted by it :-P. I mean ... I have this other thread I can point you to if you don't believe me ...

Hmmm? In any case, DE can release things separately if they choose to, so I assume it will be available if/when DE choose.

Ok, I'm going to repeat myself one more time. This Is You. I, and others, are not you. This is how *you* work. This is what *you* do. This is what goes on in *your* head. *Your* head does not sit on *every* neck.

No, I pointed out that your "points" contradict each other and "discarded" them on that basis. Actually, I'm looking to see how they are reconciled. What I am not doing is accepting them both at once, because that would mean I'm adopting your contradiction. Given you simply repeated what you'd already said, and don't see the problem, the contradiction remains (in my eyes, if not yours) and there's no where for the discussion to go.

What! No! Uh I mean ... How did you know? I concede.

This is a serious debate. The future of Warframe may hinge on who wins it.

@Raikh Mate, "cognitive dissonance" is not (intended as) an insult. It's saying you're holding two contradictory beliefs/values/povs/whatever at once. Normally it refers to the sense of discomfort arising from doing so, but since you're obviously comfortable, I guess it's not a technically correct usage of the term. What you have responded with is, however, a blatant personal insult. Just because you cannot come to agreement with someone does not mean that either they are deficient, or that (they believe) you are deficient. Furthermore, I don't have a *pre* - conceived opinion of you (or others). My opinion of you (which I have not even shared) has been entirely conceived *during the course of this discussion*. In any case, you apparently can't see the contradiction1 that I see, and I don't have the energy to try reconcile our different viewpoints, so let's leave it there. 1. Perhaps if you lean more toward the Traumtulpe mindset, where earning the loot is the whole point and not so much the shooter part, then maybe it's not a contradiction. I'll examine that possibility another day :P.

This is *you*. Not everyone is you or has your mindset.

Yeah nah. This is a *you* thing. There may be some people who are similar to you, but there will be plenty more who are *different*. They value different things. They enjoy different things. They have different goals. They play games for different reasons.

You're ignoring the *context* of that statement, which is people here claiming they are being "forced" to into rng loadouts. No they are not. They are claiming this is "p2w". No it's not. You don't "win" by getting these arcanes, or by getting them faster. In fact, once most people get those arcanes the top reward is effectively dead. Arguably, since you will still get the arcanes as rng rewards at lower restriction tiers, the top tier is dead *from the start*. Only people in a hurry or who want to trade them will bother. Most people will stop at gold tier restrictions. That's what I mean by "optional". Not "it's your choice to play it nerr nerr". Sorry but you're contradicting yourself. You want to play the game mode, and you don't have any problem ignoring the legendary arcanes, which means you won't be "forced" to use all the restrictions. So what's "unfun", exactly? Some severe cognitive dissonance going on here. See the point above. You can totally engage with it. You won't even miss the arcanes so what's stopping you just going into those missions with whatever loadout you want? That said, different people find different things fun. DE can't satisfy everyone simultaneously. Insisting that *all* content be fun for *you* is an impossible standard that DE can never meet. It's a bit like saying "there are frames I don't like to play, but I want all frames to be fun for me to play, so I'm going to petititon DE to change them all to suit me". Yeah, all frames should be fun to play. For *someone*. It doesn't have to be *you*, specifically. And just because not everything is implemented to suit you doesn't mean there is some nefarious plot going on.

I think DE are aware it will be likely be niche and not for everyone. They poke a little fun at it being "sweaty". The key point is that it's optional. You are not being forced to do it. You do not need those arcanes asap to "win" the game. Heck you can easily find complaints that those two legendary arcanes are niche. If you don't want to collect every frame and weapon then *don't*. It's not necessary. Some people are simply not satisfied unless every bit of content is built for them. Which is *impossible*. Hence they are impossible to satisfy and DE should not bother trying to do so.

Whoa, whoa there. This is a den of that aggressively virulent gamer sub-culture, the white knights of reloading. Heck, it's practically reload central. Are you sure you want to put yourself front and centre for retaliation like that? You're a brave one. See what I mean. Straight away you're been forced to endure some outrageous serenade to reloading. What a vicious assault on the senses.

You guys are really working yourself into a lather over an optional mechanic.

I can see it now, my youtube suggestion screen will be full of warframe reload asmr vtubers. Someone please save me from this nightmare!

See, when you include reload in a game it attracts reload enjoyers. Do we really want a community full of people like this? Feels like Warframe is going down a dangerous path.

Reloading is OP. Throws the balance of the game right off. When other players reload in my game it completely ruins my experience. Please nerf.

Not exactly what you want (and you may already do this) but I use the look link feature to (temporarily) save my appearance as a link in a chat tab and possibly copy it to another slot. That said, this should probably go in the feedback section of the forum.

I like the cohesion of his existing kit. It's one of the best designed kits (other than perma invis :P). He has survivability through invisibility + disarm + decoy. He has clustering (dmg amplification) through disarm + decoy. He has mobility through decoy + switch teleport. One of the biggest issues is how fast decoy dies. The other is the slow clustering of enemies with disarm + decoy (which was fine way back when but the game has increased in pace dramatically). I think there are things that could be done to raise the value of Loki's abilities, many of which are about level design, gameplay, enemy ai and behaviour, etc. However, there are some things that could be changed directly on Loki that I don't think would affect his flavour/style, for example: Decoy should probably be invulnerable. If that makes it too op in terms of CC, make an enemy only target it until they've hit it a few times or they take damage from a player. Given the fast pace of the game it's fine if the effect is short lived. A few seconds window is all a player should need to capitalise on a cc ability. Make decoy increase the movement speed of enemies targeting it. His passive could be something like more damage to enemies facing away from him. This would synergise with his abilities to give him a bit of a damage boost. Wall latch is not particularly a Loki thing, I don't think anyone would mourn its loss. His invisibility should not affect any enemy he has sufficiently damaged. There are things that could be done to increase the value of his abilities even if they don't raise him to meta status.

I like the cohesion of his existing kit. It's one of the best designed kits (other than perma invis :P). He has survivability through invisibility + disarm + decoy. He has clustering (dmg amplification) through disarm + decoy. He has mobility through decoy + switch teleport. One of the biggest issues is how fast decoy dies. The other is the slow clustering of enemies with disarm + decoy (which was fine way back when but the game has increased in pace dramatically). I think there are things they could do to raise the value of Loki's abilities, many of which are about level design, gameplay, enemy ai and behaviour, etc. However, there are some things they could change directly on Loki that wouldn't affect his flavour/style, for example: Decoy should probably be invulnerable. If that makes it too op in terms of CC, make an enemy only target it until they've hit it a few times or they take damage from a player. Given the fast pace of the game it's fine if the effect is short lived. A few seconds window is all a player should need to capitalise on a cc ability. Make decoy increase the movement speed of enemies targeting it. His passive could be something like more damage to enemies facing away from him. This would synergise with his abilities to give him a bit of a damage boost. Wall latch is not particularly a Loki thing, I don't think anyone would mourn its loss. His invisibility should not affect any enemy he has sufficiently damaged. There are things that could be done to increase the value of his abilities even if they don't raise him to meta status. Now I've typed all that I'm gonna post it again in feedback :P.

Cheeky!

Would it be nice if more weapons were balanced? Yes. Would it be nice if challenge in WF was more about dynamic action in-mission than static preparation before the mission? Yes. Would it be nice if the challenge was more about strategy, tactics and skill application rather than rng? Yes. Would it be nice if the game was better balanced and could present a challenge without crutches (for the devs) like damage attenuation? Yes. Is it ok to prefer certain frames and weapons? Yes. Might there be a better or more fun risk-reward scale and tradeoffs than the one presented by this new game mode? I don't know. Probably. Though I think Warframe's current design and player expectations probably make it hard to find and implement such a thing. However. I think DE are trying, and their attempts are at least getting more nuanced. But: Are we being *forced* to use a rng loadout in this new game mode? No, not going on our current information. Of course that might change, and then I'll eat my words :P.

roflmao People bring up "level cap" all the time. It means nothing. It's a flex and a putdown. What it tells us is the person bringing it up has nothing else of substance to say, because if they did then they would not need to hallucinate garbage about other people they don't know. There's some severe cognitive dissonance going on here. If *difficulty* isn't the issue then why would the uncontroversial statement, that all frames are viable, even get you all hot and bothered?

Well no, I use "match making" in the way you've just described. However, while I've read back through the conversation, I don't feel it would be to constructive to argue about where/why any confusion arose. I think by now we're mostly on the same page, other than certain assumptions (made on both sides, since we don't have access to the code). So let's just leave it there. My own experience while using public matchmaking is that being the first or second player in a squad is not an uncommon occurrence. It's not hard to imagine someone with a less powerful device starting a public mission solo as host, later joined by someone with a more powerful device. I'm sure it does its best up to the point where there's only one open mission. After that, the only thing we know for sure is that players can set a ping limit. A device's processing power and network connection are two different things. A device can have *temporarily* good ping (e.g. at the moment someone is being placed into a mission). I personally would not assume that someone on a more powerful device can't join the lobby of someone on a less powerful device, or use that to dismiss a complaint by blaming the complainant for having a worse-than-mobile device.