Epsik-kun
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Posts posted by Epsik-kun
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Over the course of several latest updates, Excalibur had received a large amount of direct and indirect nerfs:
1) Spin Blind energy cost;
2) Wave damage fall off;
3) Parasitic auras affecting toggles;
4) Removal of rewards from Endless Void, removal of Draco;
5) Introduction of Shadow Debt mods.
6) Duration and Efficiency changes.Currently, there's no objective reason to use Excalibur - on the vast majority of the game's content he can be heavily outperformed by a properly modded Shadow Debt melee in hands of a non-melee oriented frame. In endless Void he is only "on pair" with Shadow Debt melee at best.
So, his only "forte" (which is "being average") is overextended Survivals, for which he requires:
1) To gimp the frame's build;
because otherwise you will not perform on a level of Shadow Debt melee
2) To constantly waste energy restores;
because changes to Spin Blind made EBlade non-sustainable in any prolonged Survival
3) To use Naramon.
because the frame has no means of protecting himself against enemies in an overstayed SurvivalIt also should be noted, that full Power Strength build for Excalibur was deliberately killed by DE not once, but twice. First time it was killed was when DE introduced duration/efficiency relation for toggles, which made Blind Rage/Transient/Fleeting build impossible to sustain. Second time it was when DE introduced energy cost on Spin Blind, which made Blind Rage/Narrow Minded/Transient build meaningless in a prolonged Survival.
So even when Excalibur gimps his build to achieve about the same level of performance a frame can get while equipping a Shadow Debt weapon - he can't do that efficiently.And to top all that, there is no point in doing prolonged Survivals anymore, which rises the initial problem:
There is no objective reason to use Excalibur currently.
Answers to default arguments:
Spoiler1) "Wave damage fall off makes him a swordsman"
No, it doesn't. The situation when you could've used only waves prior to the change and now you can't doesn't exist. Transition from waves to direct melee have stayed exactly the same. Meanwhile, Spin Blind nerf highly punishes going direct melee.
2) "Spin Blind is bad"
Spin Blind is a vital tool in Excalibur's arsenal, especially when he's dealing with high level enemies. Against high levels finishers are bad, and the actual Radial Blind rarely pays off due to both level design and enemy spawn tendency. Not to mention constant Radial Blinding isn't sustainable and not really possible, as Radial Blind has a cooldown.
Even now, when it costs energy, you have to use it to be effective. Previously it was one of Excalibur's saving graces, that allowed him to be actually better than a modded melee weapon.
Not knowing the strength of Spin Blind means you don't really know how to play Excalibur.3) "You are only talking about Survivals"
Yes, because only Survivals is a mission where Excalibur can perform better than literally any other frame (including himself) that grabbed a Shadow Debt modded melee. It is his forte, and it was so since Exalted Blade was introduced.
4) "What you call Excalibur nerfs aren't actual Excalibur's nerfs"
That's what the word "indirect" is there for.
5) "These changes affected other frames too"
Yes they did, but I am not talking about other frames here. The fact is, these global changes dragged Excalibur down to and below the average level in melee, which is something he's supposed to excel at.
6) "It works for me"
Glad it does. But I am talking about objective things here, not subjective ones.
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1 hour ago, Prepotenza said:
After reaching 80/100 minutes in a Survival mission the 99% blessing + 75% link wasn't enough to keep you alive.
That's a complete lie though. A relatively tanky frame that doesn't completely neglect survivability mods could've gone 80~100 minutes and still be able to take a hit. Save for T4S due to x3 damage, but even there around 60 minutes were completely doable. For a reference, Excalibur with Vitality and Steel Fiber can facetank through EBlade a level 100 Corrupted Bombard missile on x3. He has EHP of 2k~4k as I don't want to calculate it once again.
Meanwhile Trin under 99% + 75% has over 100k EHP. -
The blind is cool. Especially when you play Excal and your Sydon effectively has no ability.
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17 hours ago, Evanescent said:
say 5-7 hits
One. One hit to charge up is already too many. Were DE to decide to keep the blind on Sydon (which is a bad idea) by just lowering amount of blocks required to "5-7" (which is a popular suggestion and a terrible idea) we'll end up with a useless passive once again. If blind stays - a single block is already a big downside to the passive, anything that'll make you wait under fire for the blind to proc will be stupid.
The best case scenario is when both blocking requirement and blind are changed for something not inherently detrimental for the game play, as well as not redundant on several frames (aka "stop stomping Excalibur into the dirt").
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2 hours ago, Slaviar said:
In pure damage build, yes. But majority of builds use Life Strike and BR+BC crit builds are slot hungry.
And I assume you take values from warframe-builder? It's imprecise when calculating damage for crit melee weapons
In any damage build.
No, I know how to do these calculations myself. And these calculations assume the same build for both weapons - bloodrush build.
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5 hours ago, -----LegioN----- said:
And for anyone who uses mostly Excalibur, the power from vaykor sydon is useless
God bless you for speaking my mind!
Seriously, what's wrong with giving Exalted weapons bonuses from Syndicate weapons? They already were overnerfed to oblivion.
5 hours ago, IceCreamFloat said:x7 or x10
It is too high. While I would rather have something that's useful on every frame, if we are sticking to blind, going higher than a single block requirement is meaningless. Blocking is bad, really bad. Resorting to blocks anytime is bad. Hence it's already a fair trade-off, especially given the stats of Vaykor Sydon aren't that of a "top melee" by any means.
Also, finishers should be removed - they harm the short blind's potential severely. If it's done, the duration of the blind can be shortened by around a second to make it into more of a burst, than CC.
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6 hours ago, Slaviar said:
Prisma Skana wins by very small margin
It doesn't. Even on x4 combo multiplie Broken War will still have like 40% extra dps compared to Prisma Skana.
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35 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:
but I'm not against changing it! I just wanted to say that it's not completely useless. I agree that it should be improved.
Well, my point is in the current state it is completely useless. I understand what are you getting at - and I agree - blind is indeed an extremely powerful effect. It's just the way it is implemented on Sydon makes going for it an objective waste of time. If, let's say, it was changed to a sole block into a not finisher enabling blind - it would be actually useful and worth going for, while still having the disadvantage of even allowing enemies to attack you.
However, I would still be salty, because it will provide literally nothing for Excal.
11 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:Is that you, sarcasm? Is this me?
Ichors are better at making stuff dead. Cleavers are better at spreading bleed. Split-Sword/Raza are better at spinning. Pick your poison, but don't let it be Dual Kamas - into the trash they go.
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12 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:
did 2 hours in T4 survival using slash and blinds
I have no idea what are you talking about.
Spoiler
I think, you're missing the point here.
1) You won't be able to go to that level with Sydon, without relying on Naramon.
2) You won't be able to proc the Blind, if you're relying on Naramon.
3) Dual Kamas are garbage. Seriously. -
2 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:
At high levels a slash proc augmented by a blind does much more damage than attacking
It does. But 140 isn't that high of a level. And you will never get to the level where you can profit from the blind on Sydon, because even "ultra fastest blind kill" is too slow for Survival. And in Excavation or Defence standing around and blocking is a great way to get the objective destroyed.
Like, I can dish out absurd amount of dps by using Dual Ichors on Excalibur by combining Furious Javelin, Blood Rush and Radial Blind. The thing is, outside of Simulacrum it has no use - it's ineffective.
Same thing with Sydon. The blind is strong, but its duration, the finishers and the fact you have to block stuff make it worthless. Not to say, even if you were to somehow get to the level of content where it becomes useful, you'd be limited to 1.5 frames, because everything else will be oneshotted on sight. And even then, it'll be a "meh" melee at best.
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Just now, Lord_Azrael said:
No, actually. I was taking advantage of the synergy between DoT's and blinds, which is much better than simply attacking. I was able to kill all 8 using only two applications of the sydon's blind by staying out of finisher range and slash-proccing them while they were blinded. Also, while charging the blind I had an effective 99% DR, but if I had simply attacked them I would have had only 93.75% DR (link and bless) and would have taken more damage.
Or, you can just kill them by hitting them. It isn't "much better than simply attacking". Sydon has higher spinning dps than Orthos (with much less range, mind you), and Orthos will make killing them into a cakewalk. The Radial Blind effect is strong - the realization of that effect on Sydon is terrible.
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28 minutes ago, Apoc001 said:
you called it a longsword, none of the melees in the "Sword" class are longswords
It's a habit due to Excal's passive info on the wiki specifying "longswords" for a long time. Not a reason to go into demagoguery, mind you.
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Just now, Apoc001 said:
FTFY
I have no idea what are you trying to fix there. "Sword" is a weapon category. Heavy Blades or Nikanas are categories of their own.
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1 hour ago, Slaviar said:
I can
You can, but that won't make you correct. Broken War is factually the strongest long sword in the game. If you think that Prisma Skana can outperform it due to slightly better crit stats - you are wrong. The difference won't compensate for almost x3 base damage difference. If you think that Bright Purity can do that - you are wrong yet again, as it is a bad mod for damage purposes most of the time, and all of the time for a Blood Rush build.
I have to admit, I was wrong about dps of Vengeful Revenant, as on one of its combos indeed has roughly the same dps as Crimson Dervish. However the combo itself is essentially solo-target with close to zero reach, which makes it vastly inferior to the Dervish. I'd already said it "could've seen some use, if we had at least one viable status long sword, but we don't".
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1 hour ago, Lord_Azrael said:
Also the Vaykor Sydon is a strong weapon with an ability that only appears to be useless at first
It's a strong weapon, but the ability is useless. You can mod Sydon to be able to deal with high level Heavy Gunners, and you won't need blind to do that. I am more than sure, that were you to hit the faces instead of blocking > using finisher > blocking again, you would have a much better result.
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11 hours ago, Slaviar said:
Broken War isn't best sword
It is.
11 hours ago, Slaviar said:Vengeful Revenant makes up for lower damage multipliers with better speed
It doesn't.
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To be honest even without "why do I need a second Radial Blind on Excal?" thing, Vaykor Sydon's effect is pretty awful. You lose charges if you attack, jump, roll or block a shockwave. Getting 15 charges takes a significant amount of time, even against multiple enemies. If you're up against enemies you might want the help of Radial Blind, you're already not in position to just stay there and take over 15 attacks - it hurts a lot. And even then, after you've dropped your charges several times in a row, got to almost no health, but actually got the Blind to proc - all you get is around 5 seconds of blind, which then will be wasted on one/two finishers you'll be forced into.
Stats are very good. Effect is essentially detrimental for giving you an option to even try.
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I have a personal bone to pick with DE and Vaykor Sydon. I've never seen anyone except for me using Sydon like ever. And I was always using it on Excal. And of course DE couldn't help themselves, but to add completely redundant effect for Excal to Vaykor Sydon.
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1 hour ago, Almagnus1 said:
By the way, what's the EB build you're referring to?
Spoiler
With Life Strike swapped for 90% elec or toxin.
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19 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:
The Berserker/Crit interaction was something that I wasn't thinking about
Berserker is perfectly sustainable on a slow 10% critical chance weapon. EBlade is fast, has 15% critical chance and 40m punch through.
Sustaining Shadow Step is also not a problem. However, True Steel will make moving around in Shadow Step a bit safer for you - due to taking less time on average to re-activate it. As well as it'll make your Berserker more consistent on low level maps, where you're oneshotting everything.
It also depends on what level of content do you intend to face. Against armored level 300+ there's pretty much only one EBlade build that still works. Against Sorties trading some of your DPS for the sake of consistency is fine.
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4 hours ago, Voidforged said:
When enemies are blind, every hit is a critical hit
This is false.
What kills your enemies isn't gas proc, which is worthless. It's EBlade base damage and finishers in case of armored units. If swapping critical mods for damage mods harmed your performance in any way it only means you went for lesser amount of finishers this time around.
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Just now, Almagnus1 said:
So swap out a few of the elemental for elemental/status then?
I would recommend going for 4 dual-stats corrosive + blast combo. It isn't forma heavy and you shouldn't have problems fitting it on a weapon. However, if you already have a weapon that can be built for 4 x90% elementals, you might want to try it out as well.
If you don't have access to simulacrum - run a grineer sortie - you'll see the difference.
As a side note, if you don't intend going close to enemy - there's not much of a point in building for status. However, EBlade is weak if you're only using waves.
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1 minute ago, Almagnus1 said:
Which basically means go for damage, as crit and status are going to gimp the weapon
You would think so, however in the end status built EBlade will outperform a pure damage one. Armor has immense negative impact on your damage and having high status not only allows you to shred bits of armor away - you'll bypass it relatively consistently. Not to say, EBlade slash procs through blind are devastating.
Also 10% status chance is applied to both waves and the blade itself, thus giving you effective ~20% when you are up close.
However, in terms of pure dps your first build is pretty much the best option.
Excalibur is overnerfed. Badly.
in Warframes
Posted
I've edited the OP, adding the answers to the reoccurring arguments in this thread, that seem to miss the point.