[Valkyr vs. Excalibur]

General rule of a thumb, that Excal is a more universal version of Valkyr. He tends to be better than her(or at least to have a build better suited for) in almost every kind of mission. However, Excal's forte are Survival missions and ultimately Valkyr's potential in Survival mission is considerably higher than Excal's.

Finished EBlade build is relatively expensive, but can somewhat quickly kill armored Eximuses of lvl 350+.

If we talk about lvl 100 Sortie, Excal might outperform Valkyr in damage dealing, but he'll have to work much harder than her to achieve that. Against lvl 150+ Valkyr will perform strictly better, while having much, much more space for a mistake.

[Am I better off with an Orthos Prime or a Scindo Prime?]

3 hours ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

Tipedo

You can't really compare Tipedo to Orthos. Staffs and polearms have different moveset and different feel about them. Not to mention, that given seemingly better stats, Tipedo will actually perform much worse than Orthos in most cases. And when it does perform better, you might go for another weapon as well.

Primed Reach is too, far from being a panacea. In some cases you might want to use it, in some cases you won't.

[Help for my Excalibur EB Build]

For melee:

Weapon specific mods, Syndicate mods, Shadow Debt mods - all of these don't work on EBlade.
Weapon itself also has zero effect on EBlade stats - it will always be a 15% crit chance, x2 crit damage, 10% status chance, 250 * Power Strength "longsword" with even damage spread.
Buzz Kill is bad for EBlade, as only 1/3 of its damage is slash.
DPS-wise going for critical is inefficient. I would understand using True Steel simply for more consistent crits, but Organ Shatter is plain bad.
Spoiled Strike is only worth it as 4~5 damage mod.

For frame;

You don't need Blind Rage on Excal, unless you doing RJ build or going for ultra-specific ultra-lategame build. The former doesn't use EBlade, the latter doesn't use survivability mods.
I would suggest using Vitality, Steel Fiber and Rage + maxed Fleeting and Streamline. Primed Continuity is a panacea, everything else could be tweaked to your preferences.

[5 hour T4 survival solo]

The main thing that made that possible is actually prowl steal. I've done 2 hours with Excal before, and it required me to kill stuff much more active to sustain LS.

[Best Endgame Melee Weapon]

11 minutes ago, Voidforged said:

stuff

That's a bad habit. That's why it takes you ages to kill Gunners who are much tougher and have different kind of armor. It also takes you too long to kill Ancients and Moas, despite them actually being semi-oneshottable.

Naramon doesn't provide the actual 400% stealth modifier, like RB does. It does give some damage tho. And yes, you should be using Naramon if you are using Blood Rush.

I've shown you the next closest thing to your Valkyr with Dual Kamas, I can't show you exactly Valkyr with Dual Kamas because I don't have either. Dual Kamas are bad tho. This particular build works best with either Dual Ichors or Prisma Dual Clevers.

Just try the actual build in the actual game and you will see the difference in performance, don't search for non existant loopholes.

 

[About Sayrn and Excal]

1 minute ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Again for no particular reason darling?

Use commas, darling. Anyway, I spoon fed you enough. I told you, Nikana Prime is bad for that. I don't want to waste more of my time explaining how does this work, given you won't understand it anyway, as you didn't even understood what I've explained to you before that.

Get your update, use Nikana Prime, be happy with what you have and don't think about being able to do better. Cheers, dear.

[About Sayrn and Excal]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

This damage you refer to is against a strongly reduced enemy tho and 18k the definite base of your attacks. Bonus elemental damage+2x crit and naramon then+combo on reduced armor is what results in the 70k. Don't take the combo into consideration and your damage is significantly lower. (Not very realistic to have combos on excal that often and they don't go into the waves eather)

I could just as well grab a nikana  p for longer runs, get the same damage base with red crits + a decent/higher chance for corrusion proccs and still get higher additional damage outa her spore mechanic so what's your point exactly? That EB is stronger for no particular reason?... that excal is supperior bc he has access to stealth finishers, what results in situational higher damage peaks on singletargets?... just a few strikes on a spored target dragg her per hit damage to where excals stealth finisher is!

After all, thinking is too hard for you. And here I was hoping.

Btw, Nikana Prime is bad for that.

[Best Endgame Melee Weapon]

17 hours ago, Voidforged said:

stuff

I have no idea, how did you manage to get a faster kill by exchanging corrosive proc for lasting sting, but whatever.

I think the main problem with your build lies in the fact you are testing it against a single lvl 135 Corrupted Bombard. Ask yourself, how often do you fight a single, lonely, lvl 135 Corrupted Bombard? Pretty often, if you live in Simulacrum, but not that much otherwise.

Here's the video, where I assume my dual Raza is Kamas prime (with a fantastic 5% base status chance, right), and then I don't assume that. Compare it to your build.

 

 

[About Sayrn and Excal]

1 minute ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

You could've mentioned if you play radiant finisher or not, calculating back the 280k brings us to eather 18k or 4,7k damage you do against enemys without armor, the more realistic option is 18k tho as it fits well with a crit mod enchanted 3,2? Multiplier with additional corrusion bonus damage. So your waves wouldn't do 30 but 18k against enemys with reduced armor. Just a few 100-1000 against enemys who don't have reduced armor.

You did post the 90k crit? Sooo... 90k against enemys without reduced armor is not stronger then 18k in your oppinion? ....

 

Wah, questions, I like that. Alright, I don't use Radiant Finish. Also, the only critical bonus I have is Naramon's passive. Also, don't forget to keep in mind that's lvl 350 eximus and armor scales with level. And those 4k hits too.

 

Well, what should I tell you. 90k damage isn't the limit. On Dual Raza you can do over 400k. However, here's the catch - that's damage on unarmored enemies. Even 400k pure damage hit falls down to around ~10k on lvl 100 Corrupted Heavy Gunner. Second catch, you do realise there should be a reason I just told you that Excal's DPS is higher than current melee, despite knowing all that, don't you?

[About Sayrn and Excal]

Just now, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

^^should i have taken the singletarget stealth finisher into consideration?

Should I have told you that I have Arcane Ultimatum on my Excal?

[About Sayrn and Excal]

1 minute ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Excuse me, 70k, 70k on a eximus heavy gunner that is clearly affected by corrusion, 30k crit damage against a heavy gunner with reduced armor. Impressive.

So 70k crit followed by 4k hit, right? And 280k damage hit prior to that. I think it works exactly as you think.

[About Sayrn and Excal]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Wow.

I assume, 60k, 70k and 280k hits against lvl 350 Eximus Corrupted Heavy Gunner don't bother you at all.

4 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

I've seen people posting screens for 90k red crits with f**king zoren.

Yeah, that was me.

[About Sayrn and Excal]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Which is high raw damage affected by a stealth multiplier once? Yea, sure. Whatever you say pal.

Yeah, right. You have my screenshot, which has damage numbers on it. you have my Power Strength. Use some "math" and think about it. Or don't. Thinking might be too hard after all.

 

4 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Compared to higher raw damage

>Implying current melee can achieve higher DPS than EBlade.

It can achieve higher damage per hit, though.

4 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

affected by the same multiplier

>implying Shadow Step provides the same multiplier as RB
>implying I didn't point him that even using RB won't result in a same multiplier on Blood Rush weapon. Twice.

You do like to look stupid, don't you?

4 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

No insults, facts.

"facts"

4 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

What did you say darling?

You forgot the comma, darling.

[About Sayrn and Excal]

1 minute ago, akira_him said:

the thing I concern about dash build is won't him die when the invincibility wears off after the dash is over ending up you are in the middle of a group of enemy. Naramon I am guessing?

It's always Naramon if we are talking about non-Valkyr doing T4S against enemy level 200+.

Funny thing however, you can't refresh your Shadow Step during Slash Dash, even if some waves crit, so if you get locked onto several targets you might end up being dead meat as soon as Slash Dash ends.

[About Sayrn and Excal]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Can't they or won't they? 

I'm taking a guess, you equipped it, spammed waves and deeuquipped the mods.

 

Sry mate but your word has less weight for me then the confirmation of quite a few players in multiple threads since these mods made theyr way into the game. But hey, i'll be able to test it myself in a few days. Would be sad if it isn't the case tho...this is the only mechanic which would actually be able to get close to saryn...

Well, I guess I'll just leave you to your own stupidity then. I tried and failed. How can I expect you to understand the concept of late-game Excal, if you fail to comprehend elementary things?

[About Sayrn and Excal]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

EB wasn't completely excludet from body count, only the waves were. This was what many excal playes have been confirming for quite a while now.

I think I was extremely clear this time. Let me try this again.

This is wrong. I already told you how this works. I have no idea about which "many excal players" are you talking about, but this statement is wrong. 

And I don't need to "try it". I spent hours testing Shadow Debt mods since the day they were released. I know how they work. 
Try to guess, what was the very first thing I've tried to do when I got myself Blood Rush and Body Count. Hint: I have over 500 hours on my Excal.

7 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

 This is what makes surging dash superior to mindlessly spamming waves.

And I even went out of my way and explained you why this wouldn't be any "superior" if it were to work. Why do I even try?

[About Sayrn and Excal]

7 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

That's at least what many excals have been confirming for quite a while now. I'll also have to test it myself yet. DE just put the update up for cert so it won't be too long till i get the chance :)

So, let me recap this for a bit:

Basically, you are fully aware that you have no idea how EBlade and critical hit system work, yet you are feeling alright with using non existant "math" to prove your fundamentally wrong point? You are right, I shouldn't have started with sarcasm. Though, I kinda don't want to insult genuine retards by accounting you as a one of them, to be quite honest with you.

7 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Surging dash IS excals one and only high performance build as it's using combo and red crit multiplicators on his WAVES, to be more specific slash dash generated waves as they are, in contrary to his EB waves, affected by these additional multipliers.

I'll go back on my usual preferences and spoon-feed you a bit.

1) Slash Dash itself is incapable of critting;
2) Slash Dash generated waves can crit;
3) Slash Dash only generates waves if it's used with Exalted Blade out;
4) Activating Exalted Blade creates a separate Combo Counter that disables any Shadow Debt mods installed in the weapon.

This means, while you are in Exalted Blade, you won't have access to Blood Rush, Body Count and Maiming Strike. This also means, that Slash Dash is incapable of producing a red-critting attack under any circumstances

Secondly, I have no idea out of which part of your body you pulled out these numbers:

8 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

100%weaponx4stealthx2,5Power=1000%

80%x4stealthx4combox2,5powerx8crit=25.600%

25600>1000

You...may wanna learn how your frickin main works before starting an argument with sarcasm. What was that? idiocy? The irony...

Because this isn't how any of it works. Honestly, I don't get why do you even try to use "math" when you don't have necessary information to make your calculations. You don't "math" with random numbers pulled out of nowhere.

I won't bother you with proper red-crit damage calculation formula, however, seeing as you'll be getting the update eventually - here's a bit of info, that isn't on the wiki: stealth, channeling and critical hit damage aren't direct multiplicatives to each other.

So, even if we were to assume Slash Dash is somehow able to make use of Shadow Debt melee mods, while EBlade itself isn't, that still won't work nearly as great as you are trying to fantasize about it.

To make maximum use of Blood Rush + Body Count combo, you'll have to give up over a half of your weapon base DPS. 
Then there's a direct relation between weapon's critical hit chance + multiplier and the combo effectiveness. EBlade has them at 15%, x2 respectively, which is pretty meh.
Lastly, when you are about to magically red crit with your Slash Dash wave, you have to remember, that Slash Dash itself is several times slower than EBlade's regular attacks and can't crit for living.
Hence, while your magical red crit Slash Dash wave could've done more damage than a regular wave (not by 25 times tho, it would barely do around x3~8 of a regular build's basic wave, depending on regular build's combo counter), were it to exist, overal DPS for tryiing to Slash Dash around would've dropped tremendously.

 

7 hours ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

I don't like trolls,and yet here I am responding to you.

>He must be trolling

Right.

7 hours ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

What exactly have you proven that gives you such confidence in your opinions? I see no factual information from anything you have said thus far and yet you act as though a point has been made. Even if your argument wasn't incoherent before, you lost credibility the second insults starting hurling out of your mouth.

Knowledge. I know what I am talking about, you only think you do - that's the difference. Of course you don't see information in something you are repeatedly failing to comprehend. 

And, darling, stating the facts isn't an insult.

 

[About Sayrn and Excal]

6 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Surging dash is an exceptation, you're right about that

Have you ever heard about "sarcasm"? Because that was it. I "also mentioned in my earlier posts" that Surging Dash build is incapable of scaling into late-game and doing significant damage. That's why I suggested you to craft yourself an Excal, because you obviously never used one.

4 hours ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

Do you honestly think that we haven't done our research? That we don't know what we're doing with Excal?

Dear, I don't "think". I know. I can basically repeat my whole previous answer to you once again, mocking your "flawless" mathematics, blatant unawareness about basics and clear lack of knowledge about how to build and play "the easiest frame in the entire game". You pretty simply didn't even understand that I was pointing out to you what was stupidly wrong with what you've said.

So, actually, if you want my answer to your post, just re-read what you are quoting.

2 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

And calling a well played saryn stronger then a ...normal, or well played excal who's loosing all group utility on the better playstyle (blind becomes quite expensive if you have to spam slash dash while EB is active. Spores and viral on the other side spreads all the time.) isn't an exageration or lie.

That's what I told you about idiocy, by the way.

2 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

But maybe i'm just missinterpreting things and he's a even bigger noob then i'd assume who thinks that a spam excal is the strongest thing in the game, idk. He didn't quite go into detail on that one.

But maybe you simply have troubles comprehending new information?

 

I don't really like talking with people who plainly ignore things they don't understand.

[About Sayrn and Excal]

9 minutes ago, S0V3REiGN said:

If I use my cover lethality dagger with Inaros and Naramon does that mean I am a better damage dealer then Excal and Saryn? 

Imagine an Ancient and a Nullifier standing together.

[Blade and Whip should be able to use sword and whip stances]

Then there'll be a little point of not using Crimson Dervish.

[Best Endgame Melee Weapon]

On 22.03.2016 at 2:38 AM, Voidforged said:

I've spent a lot of time playing with this build, if you can think of a way to improve it, please share.

I look forward to the video.

You making me work, man. I made a simple video, but I'm facing some problems converting it.

If we put it in short, you tried to make a universally good build, however in reality you made a universally bad one.

If you insist on using Weeping Wounds (which I wouldn't recommend to be honest), throw away Lasting Sting and Shattering Impact and change them for 2x90 for Corrosive damage.

Boom, your build will already perform several times better against absolutely anything in this game.

Also, if it were me, I would also remove Weeping Wounds and change it for Body Count and Life Strike for Organ Shatter. You use Valkyr, she has her Hysteria and Hysteria has innate Life Strike.

Also, while I'm against disregarding Hysteria in the favor of regular melee, you at least can make up for not using Body Count by using Hysteria to move between groupes of enemies, so you would conserve your combo.

There are also might be few tweaks that may worth it or may not. Like putting in True Steel, because Bloodrush provides multiplicative bonus. Or using dual-stats instead of 90 elementals (in a case where you remove Weeping Wounds).

[About Sayrn and Excal]

42 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

I am well aware of what i am talking about.

Yeah, right. Surging Dash.

42 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Excals damage is quite strong but it has its limitations. Excals main damage source is raw damage under exactly two types of multipliers: power strength and stealth. Power strength is a permanent multiplier and stealth is a single 4x multiplier which is triggered when blinding enemys. The raw damage has a good base but it's not quite where red crits are.

You think it's that simple? I won't be so sure about that.

 

 

38 minutes ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

Dude that shows absolutely nothing. 

>whole thread of "Saryn did that, there's no way Excal can do that"
>Excal does that
>shows absolutely nothing

38 minutes ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

B) 3500 kills in 2 hrs. I can get 1000 kills with my melee Saryn in 30 mins lol. 

1000 per 30 minutes = 4000 over 2 hours, assuming enemies don't scale
>lol
It actually means you not only won't be able to do 2 hours, even if you were able - you would end up with much less than 3k kill over the course of 2 hours, because enemies do scale.

38 minutes ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

However he has no way to heal himself outside of life strike which takes up a mod slot in place of a damage mod. Saryn only needs an augment (RM) and life strike becomes completely unnecessary.

Wasting a slot on the frame is somehow better than wasting slot on a weapon. Also, let's act like Furis doesn't exist.

38 minutes ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

Give her a little credit, Excal is great at swinging that energy sword around. But she can do this with "actual" melee combat.

I give Saryn all the credit she deserves. Problem is, this thread's direction changed to polar opposite - from idiotic "Sarin can't do S#&$, Excal does everything" to equally idiotic "Excal can't do S#&$, Saryn does everything" full of autistic circlejerk. Weren't it you people who first said "you shouldn't compare frames who are so different"?

>Hitting stuff with a stick so everything abruptly dies behind walls is "actual" melee
>EBlade isn't
Right.

And, god, are you trying to imply waves can do like anything to enemies lvl 80+? Just play an Excal like at least once first.

 

The main point is, I didn't even used a specialised build for this. That was my universal Excal build, with only 155 Power Strength, which can be upped to 314%, some survivability mods, Rage, Defensive Arcanes(all are useless after the first hour of T4S) and Life Strike on melee which can be omitted when Naramon is used.

I used quite literally less than a half of Excal potential.

[About Sayrn and Excal]

20 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

The only way for excal to get even close to this dps potential lies in a surging dash or pure finisher build which limmits his targets even further where saryn in praticly unlimmited.

Clearly someone didn't build his own Excal yet.

 

20 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

The only thing excal is able

The only way for excal to get even close to this dps potential

On 22.03.2016 at 2:45 PM, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

you will always out damage/out kill any Excalibur you'll find.

On 22.03.2016 at 3:20 PM, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

Yeah in some ways she is probably a better melee frame than he is which is kinda sad.

Beg your pardon?

 

 

[Best Endgame Melee Weapon]

14 hours ago, Voidforged said:

I feel that the Dual Kamas Prime are often overlooked, so I made this quick video for you. I'd never choose War/Nikana/Scindo over them for any difficult content. 

 

wow, that's some genuinely bad build!

[About Sayrn and Excal]

I love the lack of basic knowledge in this thread.
>Surging dash build
>Dealing damage
choose one.

Anyway, you can compare Excal and Saryn directly and get situations when Excal will right away outperform Saryn, however that won't be an EBlade Excal, but an RJ one. And indeed, RJ Excal can outperform (out-DPS) Saryn in two cases - low level (less than lvl ~40) missions and RJ-focused squad camping due to RJ being fast and having insane AoE. The main difference, however, is that Saryn won't have her damage and utility fall tremendously facing middle-level enemies and she won't need a whole team focused just on her to make it work.

EBlade Excal serves a whole different purpose and can't be really compared to a mobile AoE map clearer, because EBlade is pretty meh at this job. EBlade Excal shouldn't (and won't) outperform Saryn that knows what she's doing untill her damage completely falls off.