Jump to content

Burnthesteak87

PC Member
 View Profile  See their activity

  • Posts

    1,488

  • Joined

  • Last visited

 Content Type 

Posts posted by Burnthesteak87

    Melee 3.0 _ Simplest And Concrete Concept

    in General

    Posted · Edited by Burnthesteak87
    I hate this new Forum formatting.

    An hot topic since last week is Melee 3.0.
    This awoke my inspiration to theorycraft about the actual system and potential solutions to its problems.
     
    > Intro: (You can skip it if you want, the concept itself is in the third Spoiler)
     
    Spoiler

    I’d really like playing Warframe with a more updated Melee Combat, basing on attack, defense, response and reflexes (I’m supporting a lot of good threads around there), but I understand that Warframe involves too many enemies together and implementing a system that would fit in it would mean reworking most of the enemies and their behavior AND all the Melee combos. Which is pretty hard to happen.
    That’s why I don’t see it all realizable, and so I will stay on a not so groundbreaker concept.
    (Also talking about combos, they’re not meant to be nothing more than something visually appealing, a player chooses one which feels nice and eventually changes to another, there’s no really any other use -over damage multipliers. So I won’t touch them)


    > Let’s start by listing what’s not good:

    Spoiler
    DAMAGE
    • A1) The damage scaling for late game (enemy level >= 40) is scarce. This adds up to most weapons being Mastery Fodder and subpar to most Top Weapons.
     
    DEFENSE AND SUSTAIN
    • B1) No proper working active defenses: going melee in between a swarm of high lvl enemies or staying out of cover defying ranged attacks equals getting killed in 1-2 seconds. (Channeled Parry consumes too much energy basing on the damage incoming and I suspect it’s also influenced by Life Strike’s downsides -%more energy drain)
    • B2) No deflecting missles and big projectiles ala Shatter Defense (Mesa).
    • B3) No natural sustain, thus relying and depending on Rage and Life Strike loop.
     
    POOR MECHANICS
    • C1) Melee Combo Counter (MCC) lasts 3-4 seconds with no attacking, which is often a too small window of action.
    • C2) Most combos locks you into place making essential the use of Reach/Primed Reach and potentially screwing you if your target is slightly out of your melee range.
    • C3) Stairways and frontal attacks... Well, nobody can do anything about that.
    • C4) Melee Combo Counter ramps too much slowly to have an effective influence.
    • C5) No efficent reward for completing COMBOS.
     
    LIMITATIVE REQUIREMENTs
    • D1) Going melee requires being Tanky, high EHP (Armor, Vitality) since the lack of a valid Active Defense.
    • D2) Strictly depending on Life Strike + Rage and eventually Focus/Primed Focus
     

    > Now let's list some wannabe-solutions that could fix those problems:
     
    Spoiler
    BASE MECHANICS CHANGES:
     
    1) EFFICENT DEFENSE: 
    Channeling while Parry now doesn’t draw energy basing on the damages received but is drained over time.
    Also now if the Shield is UP it reflects projectiles and rockets ala Mesa’s Shatter Defenses. (Ping pong Lightsaber-Fight defense)
    Life Strike’s and similar MODS downsides won’t affect Parry’s Channeling anymore.
    Energy Drain: In flat percentage or increasing? Like 0-100% in15 seconds? Also there must be an internal cooldown so people can’t abuse it by spamming Parry.
     
    This Fixes B1 and B2
     
    2) GAP CLOSER: 
    The Rush/Roll command (base SHIFT)+Forward while in Melee-Only will now execute a Dash toward crosshair’s Direction; it could be executed during a combo and wouldn’t stop its execution.
     
    This fixes C2 (and helps for C1).
     
    3) Destroy the Rage + Life Strike combo.
    Rage is to much essential in most builds. Energy gain would need a big rework too, but let’s stay on topic.
    Life Strike now gives Overshields instead than Vitality.
    Or eventually procs an healing over time, instead than assuring an istant Vitality gain.
     
    This fixes D2.
     
    4) Melee Combo Counter CHANGES:
    •  MCC fading is longer, will take more than 3 seconds. Let’s arbitrarily say 6.
    • Channeled Attacks and Energy spent on Channeling will feed MCC by assuring more Combo Counters. This is made to take advantage better of the next change.
     
    Fixing C1 and C4
     
    5) MCC IMPROVED BOOSTS:
    Quote
    The Damage Multiplier starts at 1.5X the weapon's base damage after five consecutive hits. The multiplier is increased by +.5X after achieving three times the number of hits of the previous multiplier, i.e. 15 consecutive hits yield a 2X Damage Multiplier, 45 consecutive hits yield 2.5X Damage, 135 hits yield 3X Damage, 405 hits yield 3.5x etc.
    “WarframeWIKI”
     
    Now instead than increasing just Damage, every tot attacks (following the old system) will unlock a Powerup Level.
    Call it Beast Mode, Adrenaline Rush, Master’s Awakening, Berserker Fury. Whatever.
     
    Every level will garant increasing stat boosts until the MCC will worn off.
     
    Boosts Suggested:
     
    - Way more damage increase;
    - Energy per second;
    - Baseline Life Strike;
    - Every hit will garant tot Overshield;
    - % Damage Reduction;
    - Faster Knockdown Recovery;
    - Evasion (lower enemy accuracy);
    - Special Effects basing on MODS/Focus/etc.? Explosive Demise AKA Hokuto Shinken?
     
    Spoiler

    yK1rL2P.jpg?1

     

    6) COMBO REWARDS: 
    Completing Combos or reaching an high MCC level will garant an effect similar to Powerful Syndacate AOEs.
    Unleashing it by holding the R key? Or automatically when reaching the Levelup? Or performing a Charged Attack?
    The higher the level, the stronger the effect and Reset MCC after depleting?
    Have a look for some inspiration.
     
    eMzfcuS.jpg?1
     
    This will fix A1, B3, C5, D1.
     
    This way players will have the opportunity to decide if burning all their energy to overpower their enemies, overcharge their damage and survivability through MCC boosts and eventually getting to it by staying for the necessary time in melee.
    This has been theorycrafted by putting everything melee lacks as a bonus into Melee Combo Counter and removing or breaking mandatory Mods and Requirements.And also capitalizing on Channeling as a mechanic to ramp up faster the MCC.
     


    > Examples and Brainstorms:

     
    DajDSFK.jpg

    Let's assume Crimson Dervish's combos would allow the player those effects. 
    In this case, you can use specific combos to define your combat flow, or use them to adapt different circumstances.
    • You need energy to use your own skills, to feed Life Strike or to abuse Channeling? You'd perform Crimson Orbit to get Energy.
    • You're low HP and you're in danger? You'd perform Twisting Flurry to get the Healing effect.
    • You'd want to peel off a group of enemies and your warframe doesn't have CCs? You'd perform Coiling Impale to get the Aoe Radiation.

    This is a quick preview to show some mechanics demonstration, of course there would need more work to balance those Aoe Effects.

    > Buffs afforded could also work in combo with other combos.
    Take Galatine with Cleaving Whirlwind for example: maybe Drifting Stampede execution would proc a Temporary Buff increasing attack speed, thus making Broken Bull combo way more devastating.
    http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Cleaving_Whirlwind

    We can "repair" this combo system by making combos able to synergize and interact for a more skillful use.

    A brainstorm list of ideas about effects that can proc out as a Temporary Buff reward:

    • attack speed boost;
    • allows Evasion for the next X seconds, for self defense of light weapons;
    • invisibility on the next BulletJump (need a quick escape? In memory of the old "Super Jump");
    • assured Heavy Impact proc on the next slam or ground attack;
    • next slam attack or ground finisher creates a crater echoing energy/damage/slowing enemies;
    • next charge attack hits for 200% its damage with Finisher damage;
    • next charge attack charges faster;
    • next charge attack hits for a red crit;
    • allows Charged Parry costs no energy for the next X seconds;
    • allows Charged Parry to regen energy ala "Rage";
    • next Aerial or Wall Attack allows traveling a longer distance;
    • next Aerial Attack hits for an assured red Crit;
    • assured Retribution mod effect for the next X seconds (http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Retribution)
    • assured Explosive Demise effect for the next X seconds (http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Explosive_Demise)
    • assured other PVP mods effects: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Act, http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Follow_Through;
    •  
    • ...

    The simple logic after it is giving specific actions made by the player a stronger effect or an utility. Unlike every mods which give an always active buff like Berserker or Maiming Strike, which are counterproductive and promotes a brainless spam.
    http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Maiming_Strike

    ...


    PS:
    Another good idea born around Melee3.0 topics was to give different stat boosts to the MeleeComboCounter stack to every Melee Stance, thus promoting diversity, uniqueness and different playstyles.

    PPS:

    The Dark-Split Sword concept, a weapon able to use 2 different stances, made wonder a lot of players.
    Many hoped the stance could be swapped ingame. But unluckly this isn't the case.
    This gave the input to think about this idea:

    "What about if every Melee weapon could equip 2 stances and they could be swapped ingame with the unused R key?"

    It came to my mind the situation where you have a stance to face groups of enemies and a stance to focus on single target fight:

    take as an example Venka, having Vermillion Storm which has multiple targets attacks better suiting a crowd fight and a Four Riders suiting a 1 on 1 fight, with Impact procs to keep stunned the target.

    PPPS: from 23/07/2016:
    In Melee only, let's bound the E key for Horizontal attacks and the R key for Vertical attacks.

    Augment Mods You Would Like To See.

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Burnthesteak87

    - Sepultura (SoulPunch): "Now inflicts X% of target Vitality in Finisher Damage." (Capped for Bosses)

    - Harvester of Sorrow (Terrify): "Terrify also drains Over Time 15% (fixing numbers to balance) of the affected enemies Vitality to heal Over Time the Nekros and its team." (Similar to Volt's Overload - Capacitance)

    - Dead Silence (Desacrate): "Desecrating bodies will lower the alarm on enemies in a 30m radius circular area from the corpse. Stacks Intensity."

    ​- Merciless Tyranny (SotD): "Shooting or SoulPunching Shadows send them into frenzy with a X boost to movement speed and attack speed for Y seconds."

     

    https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/462288-nekros-augments/#entry5145936

    Analyzing What Makes A Good Melee System And How To Bring That To Warfame(Long Read)

    in General

    Posted · Edited by Burnthesteak87

    I can't believe this Thread got so low credit and feedback. Cheer KaxMcc. This is golden feedback, pure experience and clear analysys sharing.
    Also I'd like sharing some ideas.

    1) I thought about some "ping-pong deflection projectile-defense" to be added on quick melee and generic attacks, since the actual parry is useless and cumbersome.
    Something ala Lightsaber fight reflecting-projectiles, just added to quick attacks and combos, thus resolving the situation of while melee-stanced being prone to ranged attacks.

    2) Guard step can be achieved through the use of Shift (which is used for dodgerolls and sprints usually), maybe in Melee Only it can turn into a Dash move.

    3) Another problem with Melee is the Sustain. LifeStrike and Rage (in particular) aren't features built correctly with a balanced melee in mind, just an adaptation. Which makes them bad and toxic for the gameplay.
    Warframes should get rewarded for staying melee with sustain in Vitality, Energy or devastating effects for completing combos for reaching tot Melee Combo Counters. Maybe depleting a Syndacate like AOE with similar effects. Can't say.


    Excellent work, applauses.
     

    How To Make Warframe A Better Game: A 8000+ Words Post

    in General

    Posted · Edited by Burnthesteak87

    I mostly agree with SkippyDodley points.

    About Mobility:


    Maps aren't upgraded for Parkour 2.0 and make bad use of the Vertical Axis (there is no need to climb up or down), also they don't suit the combat or restrain it (Do anybody saw any Obstacle courses? Efficent traps? Paths hard to travel? Those were in old Void Raids, which have been removed long ago.)
    Enemies aren't upgraded for Parkour 2.0 and no enemy is able to catch up with your speed, neither special units, this garants a sort of immortality, as somebody stated. (Unless you're in a lv 80 mission in open field)

    I WANT MORE HYENAS IN NORMAL MISSIONS.


    About Energy:


    Too much Energy.
    I'd say Energy should stop dropping from enemies killed by abilities.
    Instead, players should gain Energy through alternative actions.
    Example:
    Easy solution:
    - Combo counter as melee, every tot Kills you get your energy globe;
    - Specific enemies hard to kill dropping energy;

    Elaborated Solution:
    - Syndacate AOEs-like effects recovering Vitality and/or Energy after executing melee combos;
    - Focus system or passive system allowing the player to get energy through precise actions and playstyles... Stealth kills, Headshots streaks... ETC.

    No lame Passive regeneration, lets' promote Active Interactions.

    Also Ammos can be considered Weapons' Energy and suffer similar kind of problems.


    About Cooldowns and Abilities:

    The Diablo system looks the most appealing. Maybe let's have the #1 skill being the spammable one with no CD, while others would have a consistent CD basing on balance.
    Or alternatively let's introduce also Orbs reducing cooldowns.

    Abilities lack smart design and synergy.


    About Gameplay:

    Enemies outside of Nullifiers and Ancient Healers, are just dumb damage dealing-bulletsponge AIs. There is no need to use brain into fight, just spamming CC/Invisibility/Immortality/Decoy, shooting and slaying random targets.

    Assassins are terrible. Even the Stalker now is easier than before. They also shouldn't go away after killing you, this is an incredible disappointment.
    There are nice events like Recovery (Zanuka Hunter), which could be a nice consequence from losing to assasin squads, but it's developement has been discarded.

    Gunfight is poor, 200 weapons which are almost the same, poor secondary fires, poor usage. At this point I'd be for less weapons with more identity and funny playstyle.
    Melee fight is flawed and too much situational, doesn't merge well with the gameplay.


    I agree about the Itemization, Equipment and Modding System. It's way limitative and deeply flawed, it doesn't really promote customization.

    About Mods:

    Don't forget the actual problem about weapons viable only through modding for max damage.


    And to conclude..
    The main problem with Warframe is: in most of its features it doesn't require any skill nor brain usage.
    If this is the meaning of "Fast Peaced" game...

    In the end, so many flaws have been rooted in the basement of Warframe for so long that I don't think they will ever be fixed.
    Can you people imagine how would be fixing cooldowns/energy-problems/rebalancing 28 Warframes together?
    Or 50+ Weapons?

    (I've been reading all the past posts for the last 2 and half hours, so at the moment I can't come out with anything better)

    Some Melee Core Problems.

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Burnthesteak87

    +1 Agree with your argument.


    The problem with combos is they aren't combos, nor for definition, nor for their outcome.

    The player has just to spam keys to get different animations, with maybe some damage boost and maybe a knockdown.

    Check some games like Legacy of Kain Defiance. For how old the system is, combos are way smarter.

    They're made of short actions which can be performed in precise conditions and the freedom of execution is all in player's hands.


    In Warframe Charged Attacks could work in a similar manner, but the problem is the flawed combo system, a too much big feature to rework, so I expect nothing from DE.


    Channeling would just need new mods giving different effects and dedicated weapons having a Channeling Damage Multiplyer higher than other weapons.

    Melee 3.0 Please

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    I can solo any mission just fine with melee, T4, sorties, Draco. It's all fine. Just sentients are a pain, they can be killed, just a pain.

     

    That's the only issue I've had in melee throughout the entirety of this game, pre 2.0 it was still viable because of how dumb galatine with charge build was (RIP godsword). You need to build warframe and melee for a viable melee build and it's as easy as, health mods, rage, and lifestrike and then whatever you want. If you can't do sortie defenses with melee only with that build upgrade your mods.

    That doesn't imply the system isn't flawed and doesn't needs some rework.

×
×
  • Create New...