KitMeHarder

On Gauss, TS also scales with Battery and heat cast spends your battery. You probably walked up to the enemy with some battery gained and each cast you did made you have less battery. It scales with any heat DoT, not just those from TS.

Here's another fun one. Heat Thermal Sunder's scaling damage doesn't work against OG, it'll always do the same damage as if the enemies don't have heat procs on them.

Unless Centurions specifically are bugged, Xaku does ignore melee attacks. Because he doesn't use "evasion", he uses "dodge chance". No other frame in the game has this stat afaik, except for Baruuk's 1.

Since y'all are already looking at Mirage, would you mind considering a buff to her augment, Prism Guard? The duration decrease from Conclave is bad enough, but a -67% duration it very hard to work with. Especially when you consider how long it takes to cast. And while I'd like it to just have no penalty to it's duration, I don't even necessarily need that. A little buff would go a long way, even something like -50% instead.

Only if you mean giving the other 1-3 abilities extra toggles like The Lost. Otherwise, no thank you.

This is much too low for the damage increase. It needs to be around 120-100%. That is not how you "match the Diminished Effectiveness of Rhino’s Roar". Roar is 50% and goes to 30%, so it has 3/5 the effectiveness. So then with Eclipse, 3/5 of 200% is 120%. If the damage reduction aspect is what's holding you back, split the ability in half like Equinox's Rest & Rage. Have which buff the subsume gives be based off the frame's primary emissive color. Or I'm sure there are other options to do the same thing.

They are just as major, I don't know how you consider stuff like massive additive crit chance increases as "minor outliers" from a power perspective. Even if you say mechanically, then there's no precedent for why you targeted Nourish. Regardless, I'll leave it at that.

Yet being able to use Roar in conjunction with Mach Rush, Covenant, Crystalize, Electric Shield, Hall of Mirrors, numerous augments, etc.. is also fine by comparison? You're missing the other half of the point. And instead of arbitrarily (very fitting) trying and failing to make the rule more consistent, it'd be better to ask for the rule to be removed.

You just seem to be arbitrarily targeting popular abilities (not to mention the "no stacking damage buffs" is a dumb rule from the Scott era). Not only can Roar, Eclipse, and Xata's be put on a significant amount of frames that have massive weapons buffs besides just Nourish/Lash (i.e. Harrow/Gauss/Volt/etc...). But there are other significant innate weapon buffs in helminth (Kullervo's, Valkyr's, Energized Munitions, also any debuff ability in general). If an enemy survives long enough for more than a few DoT ticks, then Toxic Lash is not making you deal a significantly relevant amount of increased damage. Especially if the enemy is surviving the entire DoT duration. That and the rest of your entire post is just misinformation fearmongering. Toxic Lash has the couple ticks of DoT damage and the single extra dip of faction damage. Everything else, (the toxin damage, the 1-2 dips of faction damage) applies to all of the other abilities and the base gun. Not to mention unlike TL, almost everything else you listed also buffs all non-toxin elemental buffs and all DoTs. Egregiously so. Lash does a couple of unique interactions with certain weapons, but 98% of the time it does not and it's just a weapon damage buff with the above 2 upsides I listed.

It 100% was using your reserve ammo to refill the magazine, if that's what you're asking. The augment wasn't just giving you free ammo.

Yeah, but that's more so CO mods being buggy than Eclipse. With CO mods being "advertised" as being 1:1 additive, like Serration. But that's not how it is. CO is only partially additive (i.e. Drakgoon) CO to completely multiplicative (i.e. Plasmor) It ignores any damage falloff weapons like shotguns have It ignores most incarnon genesis raw damage evolutions It had the bug months ago that caused pellet gunblades to scale each pellet as if it was dealing the full weapon's damage It didn't/doesn't scale with certain stance mod multipliers There was that weird bug with the Telos Bolter incarnon and its mag size It's been a while, but it is/was additive with the heavy attack multiplier you get from combo Etc... And this was a mod the was multiplicative, and based on all of this it should have stayed multiplicative (just not multiplicative with itself). So contrary to your claim, "squeezing the multiplier" and making everything additive like Serration is not the way to go. Especially when it comes to conditional additive damage. BONUS: I was testing Galvanized Aptitude a few days ago and it was no longer giving you bonus damage past one stack (tested using Soma Prime). It didn't matter if you had 1 stack or the 2 maximum, it still only gave +40% damage per status.

As far as I know, yes. It'll be the same 75% cap helminth currently has. (Doesn't apply to toxin I've been told.) Meme it up.

By all means, I think Chroma should have multiplicative damage again (150%?). But don't forget how many years ago that was, I'm sure plenty of people voiced their disagreement (not to mention we're no longer playing Scott's Warframe). And I'm sure Pablo being the new Design (balance) Director played a part in this change actually getting overturned. Not to mention Reb as the Creative Director. (Don't get me wrong, I love Steve. But Reb and Pablo are much more in touch with the game and community.)

But exalted weapons ALREADY have access to it. It's not some new multiplier I'm giving them. So should we just start arbitrarily picking and choosing what normal weapons do and do not get an arcane slot? Regardless of your answer, that is not how games like these work. The only time a weapon/weapon ability should have something exclusive to it is if the mod card literally says the name of the weapon on it (i.e. Avenging Truth). Even if Peacemakers gets access to Merciless like you said, it's not even that big of a buff. For one, it'll be additive with any base damage mods she already has on. Two, Peacemakers don't scale like normal exalteds, strength gives it a base damage buff (not actual base damage). I.E. a Mesa with 200% power strength already has +600% base damage. Even if we assume you have no base damage mods on Peacemakers (or do you?), you probably assumed Merciless would increase Peacemakers' damage by (1*(1+3.6))-1= +360%. But that isn't the case. Really it's only increasing Peacemakers' damage by ((1*(1+3.6+(1.5*2*2)))/(1*(1+(1.5*2*2))))-1= +51.4%. Also, that 200% strength Mesa gets another +50% base damage from Shooting Gallery. https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Peacemaker I know what he can do, probably better than most players. But I also know of ~14 or so Warframes that are better/better at killing than him. And that's not even considering all the frames that have significantly more utility value than him, which is just as (if not more) powerful. It's not a personal attack, it's supposed to be eye opening. If not for yourself, at the very least so you know how you come off to myself and likely many other players. Overpowered literally means too powerful and in need of a nerf when not used in the common slang jargon, where people just simply mean strong. So if Landslide is in need of having it's power reduced, when Atlas is faaar from the head of the pack, it makes me think you don't like Warframe for what it is/has been.

Excal is not S or A tier, unless you only have S, A, and B tiers on your list. He is objectively average preforming and his usage stats are carried by him being a starter frame. At LR3 he only had 1.48% usage rate. And not to mention he was muuuch worse before the Abyss of Dagath. Titania is not praised for her Exalteds, you should know that. It is the same exact multiplier as Sacrificial Steel and only 1.6x stronger. It also has to be built and maintained unlike SS. IDK what you think a multiplier is, but this ain't it. It is the same thing as any other crit chance mod, takes a mod slot, Titania only has base 10% crit chance, etc... You're Don Quixote saying there's an army of giants attacking, only for them to be a couple of windmills. You can not pick and choose at willy-nilly. We do not need bogus inconsistencies. Bro... it is not a buff, like I already said. It's in exchange for no longer getting all the buffs from using stat-sticks. It is more-or-less the same power she currently has. Then you must think something like half of all frames in the game are overpowered. So then it makes me wonder why you bother playing a game that's so obviously not for you, and not the level of power you want to embody? Respectfully, I at least would never push against the power "fantasy" level that a game established itself on, even if it wasn't for me and I enjoyed parts of it. Case-in-point, I recently played Warhammer 40,000: Darktide. I enjoyed it and got my 150 hours out of it, but I highly disliked how little power it gave players, especially individually. So guess what? I didn't go and complain on the forums for the game to cater to my drastic needs, I just had my fun and moved on. I'm not discouraging you from playing Warframe, but I don't understand why you and others play this game if it's not your preference? Or at the very least I don't see why you try in change/holdback an established game just for your own drastic preferences.

That's why I preemptively made this thread. So before DE considers doing anything funny, there's at least a chance they can see and reference threads like these. Streamlining Shattered Lash, Slash Dash, Landslide, and Whipclaw just for them to be made into relative garbage like Iron Staff would be near game killing for me. Except with my thread I'm not buffing them. They're staying basically the same if DE implements all of my suggestions. And that's what I mean about giving exalteds less than what Landslide has, it's not going to break the game. They scale off of Diwata only, so they already have "separate" modding/don't use conventional stat-sticks.

I can and you should. And they're abilities AND weapons at the same time. When you use them you not only need the power of a (signature) ability from them, but you're losing the ability to use one or all of your weapons when you use them. So they also need to compensate for that in terms of power. And there's no point in having them separately moldable in the first place if your logic is "you can't think of them as weapons". Why would DE not just make them like Sol Gate, Crucible Blast, Ulfrun's Decent, etc... if you think they want us to not think of them as weapons? Besides ones that have very unique and powerful mechanics (Peacemakers and Desert Wind) the only real reason to use our current exalteds is their ability to be (fully) dual modded. And as we've seen, without that most fail into (relative) ruin. Do you think Landslide is overpowered? All I'm literally trying to do is give exalteds the same tools psuedo-exalteds have. (So yes, abilities already have access to these mechanics (and more) and the game is fine.) I feel like your comments are talking about balance, but then you say all abilities/exalteds (frames as a whole) shouldn't be similarly strong... but that's literally what balance would be. You even said yourself that Iron Staff isn't as good as some normal melees.... It's baseline should be nowhere near a melee weapon I can equip on any frame, which doesn't cost energy, doesn't take up an ability slot, etc....

Thank you for listening. But 30% for the subsume would mean there's basically no reason to use it over Roar from a damage perspective, as Roar would just be significantly better (it double dips procs, works on all abilities, is a teamwide buff, etc...). At the bare minimum give the subsume the same proportional reduction Roar got (50%->30%), so that'd make subsume Eclipse 120%. 120% is an agreeable compromise IMO. Thanks again.

They aren't supposed to be comparable to other melees. They are supposed to be the things that make frames standout, you should be comparing them to other abilities. Splinter Storm, Desecrate, Gaze, Grasp of Lohk, Spores, Maim, Seeking Talons, Rotorswell, Blaze Artillery, Molecular Prime, Collective Curse, etc.... Exalted Blade (Excalibur): Extremely strong, can compete at the highest level, does not need any help Was very bad until just recently. The companion rework has made this and Excal much better, but I'd still just rate Excal as an average frame (on a relative scale). Peacemakers (Mesa): completely OP While the aimbot is strong, especially at lower levels, this is still a single target weapon at the end of the day. If you run something like a solo SP grineer survival, you can get overrun unless you're using every trick in the book, and even then... So while Peacemakers' still is one of the best abilities in the game, that doesn't excuse inconsistency. Serene Storm (Baruuk): Extremely strong, can compete at the highest level, does not need any help Again, it's quite good and I'm not going to list it's flaws. But it's still not a reason for inconsistency. Shadow Claws (Sevagoth): Strong, but can struggle sometimes, could use a little help, better than most melees Powerful, but painfully awkward, slow, and has to be charged. So while stronger numbers-wise than Excal, I'd rather just use Excal and you already know my opinion of him. Iron Staff (Wukong): Quite strong, somewhere near the top but not as good as some melees Extremely weak. The fact you think some normal melees are better than it is already telling. Again, it's competing with Spores, Collective Curse, etc... not an Orthos Prime with Melee Influence on it. Dex Pixia (Titania): Extremely strong, can out-class most weapons, does not need any help Very single target, so already not good for mobbing. So it terms of Bossing it's not bad if you have nothing else, but it's not competitive. If it wasn't for Razorwing, most people would never us it/consider it bad. Diwata Prime (Titania): Very weak, but is limited by a lot of things external to its stats as well, desperately needs help Agreed Valkyr Prime Talons (Valkyr): Strong, limited mostly by the stance and the weak range imo, weaker than most melee, needs help No comment Artemis Bow (Ivara): Only strong with hyper-dedicated niche builds, for regular use it is very weak, needs help Even then, for good mobbing you're headshot/Ivara locked just to have a worse launcher. It needs mechanical changes like some other Exalteds, but my thread is mainly just for improving consistency first. Balefire (Hildryn): Abysmally bad despite having big numbers, needs cc & cd, needs better animation No comment

Thanks! Yeah, this was the catalyst for everything. And then she brought it up again on a stream because of the traction it got, but they all looked like they didn't even want to touch the topic with a 10-foot-pole.

I mean really people are basing it off of how well he preforms compared to other frames. Because even look at Gauss, the (better) frame I used to counter trst's claim, he's the embodiment of a frame that can't slow down if he wants to preform at max. I believe we've had this conversation before, but the difference is you seem to see things on a "viable" scale, and I (and most WF players it seems) see things on a relative scale. And almost everything in Warframe can be made to be viable, but when another frame can do Caliban's job 3x better or another frame can do Caliban's job plus something else useful, then most people don't see the point in playing Caliban (and this affects non-DPS frames much more). So it's not that people can't/don't know how to use him, it's just that on a relative scale there is little point in picking him. (Not to mention his 1 is awful and his passive ceases to exist if you want Adapatation's higher DR.)

I mean exalteds used to work the same way, they used mods from your equipped weapons instead of being modded separately. I also forget what started the recent talk, but making pseudo-exalteds official has been a talking point both in the community and DE. Even recently Reb brought them up on a devstream or devshort, and I may be wrong, but I thought she called them psuedo-exalteds. Gotcha. The reason I didn't do something like this is because I already made a thread like that almost two years ago. But since the community started talking about stat-sticks recently, I "struck while the iron was hot". So I added all the new inconsistencies and added how I thought psuedo's should be incorporated/handled. If I don't forget, I'll think it over and maybe change my title. Thanks.

Thanks. What'd you have in mind?

It's more so because it's often disingenuously used as a "Catch-22". How can someone ever be correct if the other party can always just say they lack experience? So it's better to articulate how someone is wrong and not just pull the "I have authority" button, as more often than not it's just used as a way to always be correct/never explain yourself. TBF, off the top of my head Gauss does all of those things "DR and Shield synergy for survivability and a damage buff plus armor stripping for damage" except the healing you brought up in your first comment.

If you extrapolate any frame's kit enough, 95-100% of them won't have another frame the does everything that the original frame does. This is just a bad justification, in the same sense I can say Caliban does nothing because he doesn't have status immunity, energy regen, bonus loot, invisibility, etc.... This doesn't really show what Caliban does better than another frame, you just created a pigeonhole you knew no frame could 5/5. Not to mention many frames have just as many mechanics, if not significantly more (especially once you remove the arbitrary augment restriction). With many of said mechanics being significantly better than what Caliban offers. Styanax is definitely in the upper echelon both in terms of how good he is and how unique he is. Do you not use his 4?