Innocent_Flower
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Posts posted by Innocent_Flower
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So I was skeptical of the Vaykor Marelok. I Loved the Marelok gun immensely. Not Because it was powerful, but because it was... Complete. It had Recoil. It had inaccuracy. An average reload on a small magazine. It had a badass twirling animation and a satisfying sound. I had potato'd it and forma'd it and it was my go-to weapon for anything high level or pvp. I had become like those old-frontier Americans, who on each day would sit on his porch in a rocking-chair with his old wife-gun marelok, watching the farmers farm.
Then the vaykor marelok came. I wasn't in meridian, as I found their woman's voice annoying and her dialogue poor. But all the same I felt as if just trading for a new-improved version of my wife-gun would invalidate my efforts on the original. Initialy I was dreading the stats because of DE's great struggle (or lack of) with engaging balance. But the stats were fine.
Now, Nobody wanted to buy a Marelok. I'd sit in the trade channel trying to sell something else, and I'd notice many,many people unsuccessfully trying to sell this weapon. A fair few trying to buy the sancti (because few pick new loka) and many, many people trying to buy the synoid (because it kills).
So I traded for the synoid gammacore.
It's S#&$.
This is the most powerful weapon secondary in the game.
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Synoid_Gammacor (wiki page for reference, those disadvantages are nothing)
Looks nice. Very high damage. Not bad crit/status. It has pinpoint accuracy. It's an automatic beam weapon, It has a bottomless clip. Fair reload. It has no interesting mechanics other than occasionally killing things in a radius around the player. It is everything wrong with this game. A shallow weapon; It is pretty. It kills things very quickly, but it requires no more than 'hold the mouse button and point laser at enemies'' Yet it's the most powerful thing out there.
Now, somewhere along the line I do some ODA's with another guy I'd found in recruiting and notice someone has a marelok. I couldn't tell which one it was because of the single colour scheme used. I ask him about it. We talk. Several dead lephanti later I find myself in his dojo and he's giving me a free vaykor marelok. (Though it was a while ago and my memory fades,I believe his name was 'AnotherCreation'. That's some top-bloke S#&$ right there. Give him free stuff if you see him) Now perhaps he gave it to me because he would struggle to sell or trade it, or as payment for good dialogue, or insanity, or just general benevolence (insanity).
The Vaykor marelok is everything a good weapon should be. That poisoned cake i have prepared for the lemming that chose the synoid's stats is matched with a not-purposely poisoned cake of deliciousness for the beauty who changed the marelok (if they're the same guy... I'll need more planing to deal with my profound emotions)
It still has the inaccuracy, the very high kick. But what it also has is a higher ammo count to lessen the severity of that average reload so I no longer need that quickdraw mod. It has slightly more specialized damage so that it fairs somewhat better against shields, and the syndicate effect is a nice bonus.
It's not as powerful as the godmacor (nothing is), but it's more fun, it needs more skill.
And it doesn't do more damage than the original marelok, yet it's so much better. Try both. Seriously. The Vaykor is leaps and bounds better than the original for no additional damage. You just need to reload less (which maybe gives you an additional mod-slot as you don't need quickdraw) and you occasionally have the syndicate ability happen.
The vaykor is pretty much a kid screaming for change. An evidence for change It's about quality, not quantity. It's something that says 'if utility were more powerful, it could mean so much more for weapons". More damage just lets you hurt the same amount on higher levels. Utility lets you change the gun. To cover it's unique weaknesses, to give it new strengths. The Vaykor might as well be a prophet, that odd philosopher that died or that guy with the ideology they don't want you to know about. The Vaykor is love. Maybe if endgame was more about using increasingly functional and versatile weapons, rather than just plain number givers, warframe on the whole would improve.
I fear I may be to verbose:
Try marelok (preferably first)
Try Vaykor Marelok
Compare the two in gameplay.
Post about the direction they went, and if you feel they should continue in that direction/how.
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The whole point of Primed mods is to add versatility to builds.
Are you entirely sure? The ones I'm condemning are just 'moar damage' mods. You can't really get more versatility from that.
Crits talk
One or two crits don't mean much against ten or so non-crits.
Vital sense increases crit damage by 120%
Split chamber increases multishot by 90%.
Ravage increases crit damage by 60%
Hells chamber increases multishot by 120%.
There's genuinely no reason for different crit rates. If you apply both mods, the rifle is clearly superior for crits than the shotgun.
Actualy, Shotguns in general have pretty weak crit multipliers. Most go for 2.0.
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There are still few unanswered questions.
What happens to the rest of damage mods? (Spoiled Strike, Heavy Caliber, Vicious Spread, Blaze, Magnum Force, Rubedo-Lined Barrel, Maul, bane mods, syndicate mods, channeling mods)
Do they get removed/replaced as well? If not, do they need more severe downsides? Should damage increasing mods exist in any form?
Corrupt mods would give smaller bonuses to bigger penalities (but probably more managable penalties like recoil)
Archwing moding is in a silly possition right now (behold my fearsome gas weapon in space!. Really? Couldn't they think of something that'd work) Maul can be nerfed or replaced with functions. Syndicate mods.. can be rebalanced. Chaneling mods are fine (probably, don't quote me on that)
Bane mods would be better in more specific forms like "+ damage to heavy units" or "+status on robots"
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snip
I'm fairly sure that increasing multishot adds to status chance and damage, but keeps crit chance the same...
Well, Each individual bullet crits seperately. This is no different for rifles or shotguns. The complete damage and status chance is divided amoungst the pellets/bullets.
So, If having 30% more multishot max from mods was really an issue, the penalty ravage gets in comparison to vital sense should still be pretty small.
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Have ravage at 5 ranks give 120% crit damage boost, like vital sense for rifles. 10r legendary for 110% damage is just.. Stupid. Rifles have it so easy, why must shotguns have it so hard?
Make Normal point blank the same as serration (10 ranks) (or, y'know, equal to serration, in case serration is changed)
Primed Heavy trauma... 90% extra damage is great. More is overkill, and we have enough overkill.
Then of course you have the ridiculously long and unnecessary wait-wall.
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Darling, I have enough credits to max anything several times over and enough cores to... Well, I'd need more cores. My inumerous t4 captures would help a considerate deal. The problem isn't that I lack the wealth. The problem is: It's stupid.
Y'see now the mods I listed would be fine because they'd be
- Highly valued.
- Interfere with ballance minimaly. I mean the frame mods would primarily just counter corrupt mods. The weapon mods would add more utility which can never really get out of hand.
- There's a logic to them. Currently the primed mods are all 'Lets prime heavy trauma but not jagged edge or sundering strike" or "here's a utility mod along with an all-powerful damage mod".
- More damage is the last thing warframe needs. There's nothing left. I can already 1-shot everything, I can't go any lower than that!
It's almost a metaphor for every complaint anyone's ever had against DE. The Randomness is off the wall, The creep is real, The sinks are real, and at time all it's really seems to be all about raw numbers with no meaningful change. There's a wait wall, a grind wall, an RNG wall full of items that are either OP or UP.
I'm obviously not the kind of player who wants everything to benefit him at the expense of others. I'm a madman at R15 who has gone through most of what it currently has to offer, and I cry for nerfs of objects I have and buffs of items I don't. (I bought all the void trader items so far, except for ravage, because it's broke and of little value and can't possibly be useful)
The Void trader is so patheticaly implemented that he sells shoulder and ankle Armour separately. I mean that's just a cherry on top of lazy design designed to hide how scarce his offerings are.
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Void Trader is in no way, shape, or form, a part of core gameplay. He's in every aspect of the word, a convenience. Nothing more. We really have no place to say anything about what he offers us. Why? Guess what. DE gave us exactly what we needed with him. Like everything else, he can be tweaked to be a more pleasing part of the game. But Baro Ki'teer has NOTHING to do with the meat of the game. He's only the peas on the side of the plate not a lot of people want to finish.
If anybody can even attempt to tell me I'm wrong in any way here. Please. Do so. Give me something to laugh at.
This monologue seems rather.. villainous. I'm rather imagining you to be an evil (slightly fabulous) aristocrat complaining about the whines of peasants.
DE has not given us 'exactly what we needed with him'
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You cant keep complaining when something you dont like comes along. Dont buy it and save for the next sale.
Sure the flow prime was delicious but have some patience.
Dude, could you read, please. you wouldn't come to such incorrect assumptions were you to try.
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Not sure if I misread something, but we already have a prime sentinel.
Not true. Valkyr was only modified by the Corpus - meaning she must have had an original Orokin version to be modified in the first place.
On topic: I think this is a pretty good idea, but this shouldn't come at the sacrifice of Primes. Every Tenno weapon technically does have a Prime (as it's all based on Orokin tech), so I think they should keep doing Prime Access until this game comes out of beta (i.e. never).
I'd definitely want to see Akstiletto Prime in the the next Prime Access though. They haven't yet primed any dual automatic secondaries, and the weapon type needs some love. We already have another version of the Furis (Dex), and the AkZani aren't cool enough/are nowhere near as old.
Point taken on valkyr.
Every tenno weapon? Even the ones explicitly stated to be from tenno origins. There's a difference between tenno and Orokin visuals, So wouldn't there also be a difference between Tenno and Orokin weapon sensibilities?
Now with machine pistols, I was split between the idea of furis and Stiletto primes. (akzani isn't as cool, agreed, and I don't like em much).
-Furis looks excellent. Dex furis looks like a toy and was available only once. Imagine the sexyness of a prime akfuris.. *druels*
- As for the Akstiletto; The originals look like toys. A prime version would look smexy, Their looks are stranger and deviant in comparison to the Furis though. There's so few prime impact weapons though, so that's a point in it's favour.
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Nearly 900 hours on steam and haven't once gotten a 75% off. In britain.
I could believe this.
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I rather we stick to the community consensus which we all came to a while back: Remove serration, just integrate it into all weapons, making them stronger as they increase in mastery.
Unless that intergration was toned down, you'd have the problem of not being able to scale down your weapon to not insta-kill everything in low teir games. Or a problem with conclave maybe.
I don't mind the "buff all weapons to what they would be with max serration" too much.
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So, I've built every prime weapon in the game (bar bronco, because I disliked the original, and vasto, because it's so-so and I'm waiting for it's ak. Also hoping the cell cost will go down to 7 so that it's a reasonable 15 for the complete pair.) and all the prime frames but excalibro and Nova (because her parts just sell so well at the moment, and I don't see much of a visual improvement)Anyhow, My dislike for the void aside (i've burnt it out, but devstream 44 did mention they might move the locations) I'm wondering if DE will stop priming items and doing something else... Like dex or dragon, for their lategame versions.There are a lot of parts to grind for and I'm guessing at some point even DE might think they've done a bit much.At present there's 14 frames that haven't been primed, and I would calculate that we'd get... at least three unique more frames. Probably less than six (we could get more, but they just wouldn't be very unique. I suppose DE could stretch it out so that we get an almost-Dota like list at some sacrifice of quality but...) Some frames (such as valkyr) were never from the orokin era, and this applies to some distinct tenno weapons too (Karyst, nikana, pangolin...You could go ahead and suggest some weapons are 'too ninja' for the orokin too. Like the kama)So, if we look at weapons that have been primed, there's one for each melee category (missing a few categories) one for each pistol category (if you think the vasto and lex are different enough) and a fair attempt of spread in primary weapons (Not counting the two doomsday weapons three asaultrifles that I'm sure are different enough from one another to be considered different. I mean you've got the status one. The instant-crit death one. and the instant damage-death one) If we assume that DE want to cover the widest amount of ground with prime:Left you've got- A hammer weapon. The fragor or magistar- A dual weapon. Zoren, Dual ether or skana- A machete. Nami or Kama (or something new. Both are bad options)- A single dagger. (very likely the ceramic, since up till now prime hasn't touched elemental weapons)- A secondary automatic. The Furis, The akstiletto and the akzani.- Possibly a sniper (Sadly vectis currently being the only option)- Possibly a slower firing shotgun (strun/tigris)- Sentinels.That's a good three prime packs. Now we're all under the assumption that Trinity, Volt, Ash, Probably banshee and maybe saryn will get Primes at some point. (the first three are popular. Trinity is credit to team, Volt is the only starter frame without prime and also many players love speed. Ash is 'ninja' if you're into that. But Banshee and saryn, though cool, aren't played too much, and could get skipped or delayed for something more new and popular like nekky or valkyr or even vauban)A lot of frames might not just suit prime. Be it for lore (valkyr, maybe limbo) or for gameplay reasons (the efforts to obtain vauban, The Malicious grind of Mesa) or maybe just economic reasons (would you buy prime access for Hydroid? He'd look awesome, but Hydroid?. Maybe he might be good for upcoming raids, but I don't see him as being the most profitable Prime access.)Will we eventually change to something else. Be it:Dragon: Tenno putting their finest materials and craftsmen together in order to improve a weapon to a level or perfection rivaling the Orokin primes. Weapons are Created by destroying the original and rebuilding it with more high quality materials. Frames are created through purchased blueprints. Each part requiring many rare materials, and the final blueprint requiring not just an extra cell with the built parts, but the original frame. (Preferably if you use a potato'd frame the potato will carry over, but maybe not). As an added bonus to the superior quality, like the dragon nikana, Dragon weapons offer more colouring options through the use of the attachments tab.Dex; Blueprints are recieved through high level quests from the lotus available at a certain rank, or through passing certain milestones of individual achievment. Their unique feature is that they look like toys often have customisable iridescent colouring.Stalker: The original stalker weapons are awesome (except the scythe. I hate that one.) They're excellent and pretty equal to their prime counterparts. Perhaps at some point, the stalker changes his loadout, or gets groupies (with different loadouts and different edgy names like 'Interloper' or 'stranger' or 'predator' )Unique feature is particle effects, and grimdark names of edgyness that a twelve year old will love. (Anger,Rage,Envy,Malevolence,Loath, Spite,pain, suffering. But i think i'd prefer names like 'ill will' or 'unhappyness')
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Removing serration and making mods more than just +damage =Customisation. Rather than instant kills we could have
-A more in depth Status system (because there's no point in one if everything dies instantly)
-More gun customisation. Don't like a particular part of a gun? You're not forced to ignore it for more damage per shot.
- Better AI could be a thing, because it wouldn't be wasted in single shots of a full auto.
- More interesting enemy design in general, because that effort wouldn't be wasted against instant-kill full auto.
- More teamwork, because there's no 'one player instakilling everything with his gun so the rest can carry on'.
Ah, I remember when many were against removing ability mod cards altogether (I think I even wrote a thread or two advocating their removal) But that turned out for the best, right?
Trust me™
(I might just throw this into the OP)
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Why are people acting like these Utility mods are worth messing up the entire damage tables for?
They just add some boring stats.
Because adding more damage so that enemies on the end of your unchanging gun die faster is far more interesting than altering the mechanics of your gun?
Honestly, all the complaints about direct damage being OP, but then people turn around and whine about bullet sponges late game, where direct damage no longer scales?
People whine about both of those, because the scaling is so poor, meaning both are applicable. Try a 40 min survival where both happen.
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Just realised i'd written heavy impact rather than heavy trauma. Fixed that.
To the naysayers; This really isn't about "me not liking said mods because I don't want to wait more weeks for more powerful ones", and if you've posted that, you've failed to understand how a lot of people try to provide feedback; Not biased by only their own possition in game.
I don't like these mods because
- They seem like bandaids to good balancing
- Said bandaids are coated in infectious substances to worsen balancing
- There is no ingame missions that are needing these primed damage mods. We've got more than enough. These are just bloat for an endgame that doesn't exist.
- These mods are chosen arbitrarily. Anything with five ranks of any rarity seems to do.
- The randomness of some of these mods (heavy trauma is pretty specific to only a few weapons) shows that DE are going to pump out not just a few legendary mods, but many legendary mods. Meaning that:
- The cycle of primed mods is going to be really f***ing long. It's going to take several months for primed continuity to apear again.
- We're going to need more cores than we can currently obtain over a reasonably long period. More credits than most (especialy outside of PVP clans) can obtain too.
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I don't see it happening. Removing those mods would remove any work that people have put towards them, including the credit sink, core sink, and ducat cost.
Refund that.
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Ravage- Buff the original primed point blank. Y'know the rifle version offers 120% for only five ranks.
Primed point blank- Buff the original point blank (or change the mechanics)
Primed Heavy trauma- The original is powerful enough, and this is a very specific mod that's only recommended for less than a third of melee weapons. It suggests that you're going to prime every-fukin five rank mod regardless of how numerous they are or the imbalances they may cause.
Whilst so far the primed warframe mods have managed to be suitable for endgame players and balance; These weapon mods are not. It strikes me that the person making the primed mods is just removed from the rest of the game; Not understanding the cost of these mods, not understanding the power of these mods, and most notably; Seemingly picking mods at random to prime rather than actually thinking about the necessity, consequence and better alternatives. If you want a year of quality then recall and rethink these additions.
To put it bluntly: remove them. Either replace them with a mod that check's all the boxes (will list below) or refund ducats,credits and cores.
Intensify
streamline
Stretch (perhaps, you might need to set an upper limit to the range of some abilities)
Vigor?
Fury?
Tactical pump (buff original too to give more per-level. Buff original fast hands too)
Natural talent (at 5)
Rage? (at 5)
3 rank archwing mods (at 5)
Mods marked with a ? are not definitely good ideas, but are at least better, right?
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Wasn't the suggestion more alternatives to serration rather than replacing? I think a head shot multiplier was mentioned. Personally. Think that is the way forward, give people alternatives, don't just scrap one must have mod for another.
There's a post in this thread suggesting vile acceleration over heavy cal, perhaps we just need to think before we mod?
I'd rather just have alternatives, than serration and alternatives. We're assuming that the alternatives are instead of, rather than aswell, right?
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The whole point of prime access is to be a discount platinum package with 90 day boosters, a frame, weapons and additional items.
If they were to take out the platinum it would defeat the purpose of having 3 tiers of platinum and a separate booster/cosmetic pack.
I'd suggest waiting till you get a 50% discount coupon and then buy like 1k plat( this is an example) to purchase the new prime items in trading chat if you don't want the platinum.
The whole point of prime access is to get access to prime items.
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Simple problem with staves and polearms, swords and machetes, and arguably fists and claws/axes and hammers.
Currently. Some of the blocks don't make sense (remind we why nami is a machete but dakra is a sword, and they can't use eachother's stances) In real life, there's more similarities between axe and hammer than there is sword and axe.
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If prime access was released without so much plat and affinity boosters, could it not be cheaper?
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Oh he understood it clearly. Split chamber and other mods like it give us a chance for a free extra round per shot. To change it where it actually uses two rounds per shot would lead to some weapons not using the mods due to extremely high ammo consumption.
and thats... a problem, somehow?
No, I didn't mean all weapons with multishot would use more than one round, unless I said burstfire on non-projectile weapons. that'd use multiple shots.
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Oh and excuse me for giggling at this part
In games like Battlefield, Call of Duty, Medal of Honor and etc enemies actually die in 1 to 8 hits from any weapon. Your character there won't live for much longer as well if exposed to enemy fire. Warframe is completely different in this regard. Lvl 0 Lato or MK1 Braton will take quite some time to muder even lvl 1 lancer. Closest thing I can think of in regards to Warfame's genre is Third-person Shooter RPG.
Have you played halo/gears of war/Killing floor/payday/dues ex/ several other examples...
But, I thank an opposing argument who's read the OP.
The Vaykor Marelok Stands As A Thriving Fish In A Sea Of Ever Increasing Dirt.
in Weapons
Posted · Edited by Innocent_Flower
So far...
The synoid is both boring and OP
The Veykor is my new wife.
The Telos akbolto is good, but no marelok. It was also my first syndicate weapon.
The rakta is S#&$. Not only in poor stats and unimproved mechanics, but also in that you can't colour it, doomed to be forever grimdark against my rainbow of colours. I received this one at the cost of a single rare core (he wanted an ammo drum, but a good man pays in gold) and I feel like I was ripped off all the same.
Sancti castanas... I think this time I will keep them. I've traded away or sold every one so far.
Dual cestras... My clanmembers are always asking for the weapon mods (and I bought many a t4 cap just before they were taken away), So I've yet to get the final rank (or trade for them)
...Odd that the last ones to try are the ones from my own factions.
the innate magnetic can have anything thrown on it, and the range... Well, Most gameplay occurs inside that distance, but you can mod some of the problem away (and that is the only problem). It being not-instadeath burst-damage hitscan isn't too much of a factor when considering the full auto nature of the beam and the seemingly infinite clip the weapon has, even with lethal torrent.