Innocent_Flower
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Posts posted by Innocent_Flower
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So I looked at the hot topic and noticed a big change in the percentages. Whereas before more were voting for either Removal, Changes or 'other', more now are voting for 'they're fine' and even the 'buff them' option is gaining momentum.(it's currently 30% and 15% versus 13%,23% and 5%. It was on first sight 25%,10% versus 14%,24% and i forgot what the 'other' percentage was.)
Now this is probably one of the biggest questions to ask in hot topics. It affects the entire balancing of the game. It's essentially something that could end with a damage 3.0, and would at the least call for a damage 2.1
Voting to make such mods more powerful... Well, that's a bad joke. Especially considering the weight of such a change. If you want to powertrip, make a thread for an easymode so that you can powertrip without impacting the game for everyone who doesn't want that.
Voting 'they're fine as they are' because you've missed information (or didn't like the 'no opinion' or 'other' option ) is... bad. Very bad.
1- Should DE remove +damage mods then there's a 90% chance of players being compensated in credits, cores and ducats. (if you traded for a mod in plat, then you essentially bought a lot of cores. Still worth it) outside that 90%; the mods turn into something else. It's extremely unlikely that DE will give players nothing for anything they remove. You might not get legendary cores, but you'l get enough.
2- Any change to mods will have a change to the way enemies level/scale. If you're thinking "How am I going to do 40 mins t4 survival without serration" then, sadly, you're a bit silly.
3- Removing +Damage mods will likely not be the end of 'progression'. Rather, it might be the beginning of meaningful progression. Enemies will go from 'more health and damage' to 'smarter, have more abilities and spawning in more devilish patterns'. Veteran players will have better weapons modded with far more utility, specialization and functionality to deal with enemies better whilst not becoming something that can instantly make mid-level content boring and irrelevant. Allowing players to move more easily between high and mid-level content without needing to constantly make load-out adjustments.
4- Removing + damage mods will not mean that 'people will find the most optimum build again using the remaining mods and then we will need more nerfs'. Will there be an optimum build? Most likely. But will it be as bad as the optimum builds we have now? Not nearly as bad. Again: just removing/amending the damage mods isn't it. DE will have to look at 'the whole animal' and will change multishot, the corrupted damage mods and probably the elemental/physical damage mods too. It's not like power-spaming will become more prevalent as weapons 'decline in power' as DE will probably touch on the damage dealing abilities too
Edit:
5- It isn't about buffing or nerfing. It's not that we want enemies to be super-hard or guns to be super weak. It's about both increasing the sense of progression and accessibility. It's about customization and better game mechanics. And just maybe it might make things easier on the developers: Maybe DE would be better at fine-tuning things if they didn't have to worry about players increasing their damage a hundred-fold. Maybe bosses wouldn't need to pull BS-weakspots because many players can instantly kill them if they weren't otherwise immunize. Maybe better AI could be worked on if it wasn't wasted on enemies that were all one-hit-dead. Do something like this and players will be able to better set themselves to have be challenged or not through means that aren't painstaking damage calculations.
..Or maybe DE themselves just don't recognize the change that removing serration (and causing damage Something-point-something) could bring (those are some cool questions in the hot topics, but none of them that central to warframe's future growth as this) It could have been a hot topic on it's own. Maybe [DE] Drew could/should have explained it differently.
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Seeing that if we have zero damage mods all we got are some boring mods to play with.
I kept reading past this bit, but only for politeness. Wish you'd shown the same amount of politeness and thought about the obvious answers before asking for them.
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There is always going to be a min/max build. I'm not sure why people like you fail to see this.
If that min/max build isn't gratuitously OP, it's fine.
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Only if they were all included on a single colour pallet.
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The fact that the community is honestly voting to keep base damage mods is disappointing me.
Me too, but of course shortsightedness is common when it comes to a perceived nerf, and never does the health of the game factor in.
when I first looked at this thread, I saw fairly even split between keeping and removing. now it isn't so much. I'm even now suspecting foul play; The notion to make such mods even more powerful was previously a minority feature. less than 10% picked it as an option (and it's an incredibly harmful idea for the game. It's not a funny joke). During the the first 24 hours of the poll the community was pretty split with about 25% on the keep, 10% on the buff, 24% on the remove and 14% on the change. It's changed so very much since then.
Maybe it's a bunch of people without serious thought on the matter, I mean picking the 'keep' option:
-it's one step above not having an opinion to go with what's current (odd way of thinking, but a lot are like that)
-They're under the assumption that they won't get compensated for their lost mods.
But seriously; Buffing damage mods? There's no way a logical person who's put thought into the subject could vote that way. Maybe it's one of the more fanatical power-tripers making alts to vote on.
Eh, Maybe DE Drew is to blame?
Some of the source threads discuss the repercussions of removing Serration and the effect that would have on power levels. Do you think Warframe would be too difficult without mods that increase damage?Yo, Biased much? Work under the assumption that enemies get rebalanced too.
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60% Chance? Disagree
Let's say 95% or higher i kinda curious about it myself since i see people are buying fleeting,overextended for 70p+ ( narrow minded , blind rage , heavy cal still 40p+ )
so i wanna try it then go doing 15 vault run Yeah all of them are fire rate mod
See, I remember the days where heavy cal was a good 20p at most. I went offline for a long period of time and sold someone a heavy call for only 20. The guy was all like 'you sure' and i was like 'yeah, it's a fair price'.
How wrong i was, and how right I should have been.
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Damage 3.0
Yep. Talked 'bout that in one of my threads that made it into hot topics. (can't remember if i explicitly said 3.0, but pretty much)
I'd say that elemental (and physical, to an extent) damage would need to be almost entirely based on status, with each flesh type being weak to some aspects of each status.
Conversion rather than straight addition (or addition to a max of 30%) would also be another choice/ the choice for the other side of things. (you can use all methods)
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Multishot could be made into a utility mod. Any/all of these could work.
-Burst fire on any weapon.
-Increasing the size of the cone of damage.
-Small chance of a free bullet.
-That cool 'two arrow' trick they do on bows in movies. Be legolas.
-Spliting a missile into several smaller missiles. Hello carpet-bombing ogris.
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damage increase mods are the only thing stopping new players from jumping into planets they shouldnt be in yet.
Nope. Firstly a new player would have to work through planets to get to the later ones. Maybe with fine-tuned enemies they might just learn everything before they get to those planets. Secondly I've seen new players jump the ship entirely by trading for neccessary items, or players who ignore the ship entirely by tanking through, unchanging, in hard mode, with S#&$ weapons and great skill. I've met old players who're totaly crap. New players who're amazing.
Turning the whole planet into mercury is something you'd only really consideer if you ignore the new enemy possibilities. Rather than enemies with higher numbers, perhaps DE could work on enemies with tricky abilities or devilish spawning that requires increased skill/utility to deal with.
I don't think I could give 'more conclusive options' because the amount of options this could open would be marvelous.
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Firstly, as a player, you can expect to be refunded in credits, cores and ducats for whatever you own.
Secondly, Enemies will be rebalanced accordingly to what is nerfed/removed. (as an added bonus; Without players being able to increase their damage to an unpredictable degree with said mods, enemies would be more likely to get finetuned and improved, as each might live for more than a few seconds) This'd make infinite modes especialy good, as you'd no longer need to go through a long enemies-too-weak period (fairly unengaging) and then meet an enemies-instakill-and-don't take damage period. You'd meet tougher enemies as you progress through the solar system, but it'd be a more interesting difficulty change than just 'more health,more Armour, more damage, same everything else'
Thirdly, Player progression becomes universal. Before, If you wanted to play venus for some alert, you'd need to dial back your gear for challenge. If progression wasn't a matter about how much damage you could do, but of how much more functionality your weapon has (Infinite clip, lightning reload, has punchthrough, sets enemies on fire, begins restoring energy after enough damage, has a wide cone of damage, chance of causing fear, does extra damage to heavy enemies) you'd have progression that you could use EVERYWHERE. Progression that would greatly assist you in the late game, whilst not being so damage-focused that the earlier game becomes an entirely passive experience as everything dies in one-shot from a full auto weapon. To put it simply you could play with that MR4 kid and he'd think about how cool your weapon is, not how it instantly kills everything so he doesn't have a chance.
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So currently there are a few items that just have bad polarities. Be it they don't have any at all (they were old weapons and that seemed like a reasonable thing to do at the time; Braton or boar prime for example) or they're just... strange (Why does nova prime has a third V polarity? Why? We're going to need to forma that out. Why couldn't we get a - or D instead?)
So I'm asking DE to change the innate polarities of weapons; To players that already have those weapons, they are given a platinum forma which can only be used on the items needing change. That forma can either create the updated polarity layout (if unformad) or add a new polarity (if forma'd) without re-leveling the weapon/frame.
(edit: not talking about D polarities on weapons. Fix D mods. Y'know those weak-&#! status chance mods that nobody uses? That's a D mod)
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MY INVENTORY SPACE IS CRYING, CAN YOU HEAR IT SCREAM?
Nah, my clanmates rather enjoyed farming a second mitter.
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I have to say I agree and I think a solution would be add some of these useless mods to the nightmare mode drop table instead.
To be honest, nightmare mode needs some more rewards.
Or, some of the less popular corrupted mods should be added to Vor's (t4 void version) drop table
Hmm... I wouldn't mind seeing some of them added to the regular drop table, outside of the vaults or nightmare missions
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Removing serration/point blank/pressure point/hornet strike would bring nothing bad to players, so long as they were refunded credits/cores/ducats.
Removing serration/PB/PP/HS would bring everything good. It's not just a long term investment; It's the best investment.
- Modding becomes more free-form for the early/endgame. New players galore.
- Because players aren't doing 262262 gigatons of damage, enemies and mechanics are easier to balance and fine-tune.
- more focus on skill than numbers. most of what's wrong with this game is due to raw numbers. Promise. Skill;more fun. You don't have to punish players for not having skill, but you can reward them for it.
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I'm very pro-removing/Changing the S#&$ out of serration.
But weapon rank-damage buffing would only work if there were tuning (which would be mildly annoying, auto-tune?)
I'd prefer it if Players could improve their weapons through the cunning use of what we now call 'utility mods'
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Nope.
You wouldn't be able to scale back your favorite weapons if you wanted to use them in a lower-level game.
Trust that DE can rebalance enemies in a way that means you don't need the extra damage from serration (extra dps from other mods? Fine, but not simple +damage)
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Used to be that vault runs would probably get you what a lot of people would call essential mods; Narrow minded, Overextend, Blind rage, Fleeting expertise, heavy cal. Sure they weren't all up there on the most essential mods one could own, but it was better than what we do now.
Now you do vault and you will get a firerate mod. Useful? yes (except the shotgun one which is only there because of how hard shotgun spazz is to obtain), but by no means essential. It is now extremely hard to get any of the old mods because there's a 60% chance of getting vile acceleration. Unless I should be doing specific vaults for items (were we told about this?) could DE improve the vault drops?
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"they need their damage bonus increased"
Please,Please tell me that's a joke option.
I also notice the precentages change significantly since i last looked. Do a few have alts or...
What do these players want?
Customisation: reduce or remove damage mods.
Balance: reduce or remove damage mods (or everything that adds damage around them)
Progression: reduce of remove damage mods.( If everything didn't die in one hit, development on AI, new enemies, and functionality on weapons could grow. At the moment we just get the same enemies but tougher.)
Status quo: do we need that? It's beta. I'm sure a lot of players voting 'they're fine as they are' hold concerns that they will loose the effort they've put into high rank mods. Since DE can refund that, it's not so much of a valid concern.
Powertripping: Why not just ask for an easy mode? must everything be brought down because a few people like being so op that gameplay is pretty much passive? Just give the game an easy mode and then not worry about these kinds of people degrading the quality of feedback.
Anyone who's put enough thought into it would pick reduction or removal options. It'd open new doors, make parts of the game easier to fine-tune, add replay value beyond 'collect em all'. The game would become more engaging. Currently I often find myself playing with one hand (eating, though as developers you should feel well proud of yourself if it was something else) because there are times where the game just doesn't engage the player (survival, definitely survival, for reasons already listed in my threads).
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Arcane helmets provide an advantage to players, one that new players cannot obtain without spending platinum. That is my biggest problem with them. But the current system put DE in a nasty hole, if they were to reintroduce those buffs in any way people would rage in greater numbers than had the benifits been striped with no recourse for the players that had bought them with plat, because now players have payed stupid amounts of money for rare items, only for said rare items to become common to all again.
This happens every time new prime items are added to the void. Some old items which were rediculously expensive are now common. give it two months and the nova set will be buyable for under 40p
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I'm sure I wasn't the only person to think that the best solution was for DE to have done the following:
Not an altogether bad idea. Don't like:
- Polarization. Don't do that. Do you want us to forma helmets?
- Having a mod slot change depending on cosmetics.
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Wow, been a while since i got something recognized into hot topics. Now; I'd like you to know I'm an oddity who usually carries several different opinions on him and doesn't really commit to a single Idea.
For weapons, I will assume that (the sadly popular) idea of having weapons get stronger as they level up (in damage, specifically) would be terrible. Does it help with Progression and customization? Yes. But It would also hamper balance in that a player cannot scale down his weapon's damage for lower levels. Keeping serration and it's like and chainging the other mods we all whack on just to add damage (multishot,elemental damage etc) would be a fair sollution, but not quite as effective as removing the mods as we know them.
I think that removing serration/pressure point/point blank and hornet strike would be the best choice. Making multishot more of a situation item rather than a 'double everything!' mod would be great.
You'd best remove corrupted damage mods from the vault, Changing them to five ranks at most, and then adding them higher negative values so that the player gets an interesting choice on what rank they use. Lots of interesting +damage -something else mods could add variety, Just make sure players can't increase their base damage by too much or we'll have more false choice.
(having point blank (the original, bugger prime) a -stat mod that increases damage at the cost of falloff would be interesting)
I also came up with a whacky idea in which there were tons of damage mods. Every damage mod would be five ranks, but when it's rank five you get the option to transform the mod into a different version of itself, unranked, with an additional effect.
Buff utility mods to godhood. And add fabulous utility mods.
It would also be very good to see elemental mods and physical mods redone, because as they stand they're basically just +damage mods. A mix of ways to do this:
-Convert damage, not add to it.
-Elemental mods for physical weapons add and increase the severity of the status chance, but not adding any 'elemental damage' to every hit. Enemies material types are changed so that some are more likely to be affected by some statuses than others.
-Mods that increase an element + status should be changed to either
A-Not form combination elements
B-Do similar, but not quite the same, statuses. Napalm VS thermite kind of thing.
C-Be the conversion/addition to the addition/conversion of the more common versions.
- mods that increase an element + something else (blaze,focus energy, ice storm etc) should be changed to improve status chance at the cost of/with the bonus of..
- Add up to 30% of a given damage type. 30% being the cap.
And buff those damn single status chance mods!
In the case of sliding/coptering/wall launch/directional melee I'd be wonderfully conflicted; I Could worship the tipedo for the way it's changed my movement on the map, but the movement is jaring and i'd prefer a more controlable movement system on the whole. I think I'd like to see
-The wall leap removed, But the player can jump higher/kick from walls harder by holding the jump button down.
-Coptering... generaly removed from weapons, but some special weapons have abilities that can change the way you move.
Grabbing enemies: If we can be batman, we should be batman.
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What would speed triggers drawback be? Emptying your clip faster? Primed fast hands...problem solved. In any case. I feel that your case could be fairly eloquently stated that we need to remove pressure point too, and that primary and secondary weapons should be scrapped, because at any time on any planet including pluto we can wipe out hordes of enemies with simply a melee weapon. Would that satisfy you? Primarys and secondarys gone as well as pressure point? We would still be OP however. considering that you throw on marathon, rush, maglev, quick rest and primed flow, and then channel into your melee weapon and block everytime you see an enemy. So instead lets remove the ability to channel and the channeling mods. but stances give boosts to damage too. so remove those. OK so now, we're not OP. We cant run T4's anymore and T3's would be sertiously hard, but now its interesting right? We're balanced. except....
Well, firstly ammo consumption. I don't think that can be fixed with just 'reload faster'
PS: I like the way you've cited primed fast hands rather than the standard variant.
Learn to argue though. Gross levels of hyperbole do very well to mark you as unreasonable.
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nightmare survival....problem solved...
all this talk about balancing...
if u really want stuff balanced...sell ur frame...get a new1 dont potatoe or forma..you got ur balance...another 1solved
no1 is waiting for more balancing like explained in other replys
people like powertrips...and if they dont then they stay away from ult frames or play with less cc
also...new players already have troubble enough
i seen many quit whitin the first month or sooner just becus they lack skills / interest to get any skills
no sense in making it wurse
I don't know who you are, but know this; I will find you, and i will love you.
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Speed trigger has a drawback.
Now, I don't have a problem with someone having a significantly better weapon than another player... but the 'significant' in this game is is on the side bad side of absurd.
Generaly, if you complain about something not being something, one could assume the suggestion would be to 'make it so'
Here's How We Remove Serration And (Attempt To) Balance The Game. Damage 2.5 (Designated Megathread)
in General
Posted · Edited by Innocent_Flower
It isn't about challenge at all. it isn't asking for enemies to be buffed, or nerfed, or for us to be buffed or nerfed.
Random mutators though? Is that really a valid response?