Trinity 9.8: Feedback Thread

[BronzeDragon]

And if it's that much of an issue, just cast Well on the target first. EV returns more than 75 energy, and you can put on streamline for even better ROI.

 

And yeah, more than half the time I use EV I'm using it as a more or less free stun.

If you wait long enough in range sure, but amount return is not the bad point, the point is being forced to  wait around while youre getting shot is much worse than the old system. And people say it stuns, but I have yet to see it stun anything; level 5 to 105.

[Estred]

If you wait long enough in range sure, but amount return is not the bad point, the point is being forced to  wait around while youre getting shot is much worse than the old system. And people say it stuns, but I have yet to see it stun anything; level 5 to 105.

It does stun, however some effects such as Pull or other Ragdolls will break the stun.

[Schattensang]

Well, pretty much any effect will break the stun from EV. And I would say, that this is a bug at this time, and I hope they work on that in one way or another. Sometimes it doesn't even start the stun, as the enemy allready had some sort of CC on it, so it turns out to be a running, attacking and pulsing enemy.

Easiest way to deal with it would be to levitate the enemy the same way like Well of Life does. With that ability the enemies try to move after the stun broke because of another CC, but as the levitation kicks in as soon as they start to get up, they are still helpless.

And it would be better to let the enemy pulse faster, when you shoot him. As long as there are multiple enemies and nobody uses an AoE it's fine, but as the problem is with multiple enemies... AoEs are just too useful when you face 20+ infested, so no target stays alive to actually give any amount of energy.

 

To our new Link... well, it's somehow fun, but three strange chains are pretty annoying. 75% damage reduction may be good on lower levels, but as we all know, it's nothing against high enemies. The only real use it has right now, is this little CC immunity you get with it. And when an ability has such a wide range of uses, it's just not good that only one of them is actually useful.

 

Blessing... yeah... it's fine... you just encourage us to give our team perma-invincibility. I would actually say, that you should reduce the invincibility time. Right now it's too long, especially when you build your mods around it.

[GTG3000]

Well, how about a change to blessing like this :

When cast, it replenishes your teams health and shields, giving an affected by focus 75% damage reduction AND adding an effect that stabilizes any downed tenno, preventing bleeding out completely until it's lifted?

Then Link would still be needed in it's old form, and we would have a very tactical skill.

(I know you've posted something, phantom)

Edited September 22, 2013 by GTG3000

[PhantomBR]

Trinity 9.8: Feedback Thread

 

Scott's Comments:

Trinity has always been a tricky frame to get right, she needs to fill her role in the group but also be viable in a solo context. I think the changes to Trinity addresses concerns and imbalances with her initial design and also grants her some damage capabilities. Again I will be looking at feedback and stats to see how she performs.

 

Changes:

 

Well of Life: Now plays reaction animation, Life is 10x multiplied allowing players to leech enough health out.

 

Energy Vampire: Now plays reaction animation and doesn't require damage to get energy. Instead target radiates a set amount of energy every couple of seconds. Also does damage to the target (Damage scales with strength mod)

 

Link: No longer damage immunity changed to damage reduction, now links to several targets at once amplifying the incoming damage. Increased radius search for link targets.

 

Blessing: Animation speed changes and timing. No longer wait till end of casting animation to get power effects.

Well of Life Помойму самый бесполезная для целителя способность. Сами подумайте мы вибираем целью пртивника, после чего любой кто в него стреляет исцеляется -_- не лучше бы сделать так, чтобы можно было использовать эту способность на игрока(!) при этом у него излечиваеться допустим 50\100\150 в зависемости прокачки этой способности. И помимо этого можно было сделать еще одну возможность механику поднимать союзника если того сбили с ног. Такая система малото что будет реальной для целителя (а не как сейчас) так еще даст больше удовльствия от игры и больше возможностей.

 

Energy Vampire тоже есть небоьшой изъян, дело в том что лучше бы она работала если бы волны исходящие из противника исходили из самой Trinity, да и сама механика способнсоти была бы что то вроде поддержания умения, тоесть используем способность и тринити начиннает вытягивать из противника энергию (анимациятого как тринити стоит в одной позе и вытягивает энергию) восполняя свою энергию и засчет волн исходящих от нее пополняет своим союзникам. В этом состоянии она кстати не может двигаться, стрелять или применять другие способности, НО если нажать во время действия этой способности на ту же кнопку то происходит следущее способность моментально рпекращается на нося больше урону противнику (как бы два за один такт, сейчас как понял эта способность так и рабоатет за каждый такт наносит урон цели и с волной пополняетэнергию) и также восполняет за два такта энергию. Во время действия способности цель также обездвиживаеться, а если прервать ее нажатием на кнопку этой же способности то цель сбиваеться с ног не надолго.

 

Link вообще лучше наверное сделать как щит дающий неуязвимость на некторое время, кторое даст или одбиться от пртивников или просто убежать.

[GTG3000]

@PhantomBR

Ну да, как-то так, 18 страниц того же мнения.

WoL был бы лучше как аура Тринити с оверхилом, или как AoE дистанционная абилка, ибо попасть по союзнику абилкой в этой игре сильно тяжко.

Думаю поднятие союзника за 25 энергии было бы жирно, может лучше просто остановить потерю крови на какое-то время.

Интересная идея для EV, но всё ещё зиждется на возможности накричать на тиммейтов чтобы они не убивали крипа. Было бы лучше просто переделать текущую абилку чтобы она наносила весь урон сразу, и оставляла эффект стана на всю длительность, как кд.

Линк или возвращать как был или заменять совсем.

[PhantomBR]

@PhantomBR

Ну да, как-то так, 18 страниц того же мнения.

WoL был бы лучше как аура Тринити с оверхилом, или как AoE дистанционная абилка, ибо попасть по союзнику абилкой в этой игре сильно тяжко.

Думаю поднятие союзника за 25 энергии было бы жирно, может лучше просто остановить потерю крови на какое-то время.

Интересная идея для EV, но всё ещё зиждется на возможности накричать на тиммейтов чтобы они не убивали крипа. Было бы лучше просто переделать текущую абилку чтобы она наносила весь урон сразу, и оставляла эффект стана на всю длительность, как кд.

Линк или возвращать как был или заменять совсем.

А что мешает переделать тагрет систему при прожатии этой абилки?? сообственно игнор мобов и таргет только по цели?? также добавить и изменить немного HUD на отоброжение над головой уровня здоровья, подсветка игроков  (если уж слишком монго противников или всякой другой бяки от корой ничерта не видно, это все просто для удобства. АоЕ у Тринити кстати и так есть и довольно не хилое, смысл его делать еще раз?? про поднятие уверен что жирно?) блин это же целитель да он ОБЯЗАН поднимать, лечить и даже воскрешать)) да поднятие имелось введу не моментальное, а именно эффект как от лечение тоесть "тики" (или такты кому как), просто при использовании на лежащего на земле эффект исцелеиня будет до тех пор пока цель не встанет на ноги. И именно поднятие будет для этог перса не только актульно но и реально интеерсно и за нее гирать будут, потмоу как бегаю по миссия пофти не вижу Тринити, а это о чем говорит? правельно! она мало кому интересна и нужна (что само собой уже бред, никому не нужен хил -_-).

Не убивали крипа?? ты предстовляешь как это будет выглядеть КАЖДЫЙ раз)) я давже с друзьями играю нет да на ору когда он убивает цель от корой я так "скажем" питаюсь)) да и сама механика если призадуматься это тоже что то с чемто, мало того что приходится использовать по сути с варгами которые рядом с тобой так еще стоять потом и пополнять энергию)) знаешь как лично у меня получаеться игра всегда Тринити в соло?? встречаю первого моба, в стан его и стою возле него "греюсь" попутно вешая вампира чтобы тот никуда не убежал, восполняю энергию до максимума, убиваю его и все пошел дальше миссию проходить. Да и ксттаи волны должны именно исходить от Тринити потому как кто будет вообще бежать вперед к мобу и от него "запитываться" особенно когда в переди толпа противников.

Edited September 23, 2013 by PhantomBR

[GTG3000]

Ну, видимо что-то мешает. Они сейчас везде вместо выбора цели тупо АоЕ ставят. Ограничения движка, мб. Имхо, проще было бы зделать дешёвый АоЕ пульс за так 10 энергии, чтоб жизнь мёдом не казалась. Но идея с "хилом" истекающих кровью хорошая, будем надеяться что Скотт тоже так подумает.

 

Вообще, тем и был хорош старый линк что ты мог бегать всех везде воскрешать. Было бы здорово если бы его вернули, а блессинг перепилили во что-нибудь.

 

Кстати, Вампир мог бы быть просто аурой. Типа, идёт тик - всем врагам в не слишком большом радиусе радиусе стан и урон, а всем союзникам в ранже - энергии по, не знаю, 5-10 за крипа.

 

А так да, представляю, что тут не представлять. Рандомы меня вообще в упор игнорят, стоят и знай себе стреляют по неуязвимому крипу (колодец-то их на полную хелсу восстанавливает). С друзьями в основном проблема если толпень, они с ульты сразу всех выносят.

[Tainted_Fox]

Quick summary on her rework

1st, 2nd, and 4th ability. works amazingly. anyone that says shes not viable clearly shouldn't play her at all and doesn't deserve to.

BUT. if i was to talk more about it. my only gripe is the rework on energy vampire. i understand why it got altered to the way it is. but waiting for enemies to be milked for energy is a bad mechanic. you shouldn't have wait for enemies to be killed since your gonna kill them anyways. making us wait isn't the way to go. especially since other warframes will just kill it anyways without waiting

i suggest an energy orb drop of 25 energy if it doesn't reach the end of its duration before the target dies. or a burst of energy coming from the target (or a chance of)

[InterrobangTF2]

Quick summary on her rework

1st, 2nd, and 4th ability. works amazingly. anyone that says shes not viable clearly shouldn't play her at all and doesn't deserve to.

BUT. if i was to talk more about it. my only gripe is the rework on energy vampire. i understand why it got altered to the way it is. but waiting for enemies to be milked for energy is a bad mechanic. you shouldn't have wait for enemies to be killed since your gonna kill them anyways. making us wait isn't the way to go. especially since other warframes will just kill it anyways without waiting

i suggest an energy orb drop of 25 energy if it doesn't reach the end of its duration before the target dies. or a burst of energy coming from the target (or a chance of)

Power duration should work differently for skills that have an Over-Time effect.

Energy Vamp example: 100 energy over 12 seconds.

1) +25% Power Duration = 100 energy over 9 seconds. (Total time decreased by 25%)

And/or make it so any damage done to the enemy during Energy Vamp is applied after it wears off.

[Tainted_Fox]

Power duration should work differently for skills that have an Over-Time effect.

Energy Vamp example: 100 energy over 12 seconds.

1) +25% Power Duration = 100 energy over 9 seconds. (Total time decreased by 25%)

And/or make it so any damage done to the enemy during Energy Vamp is applied after it wears off.

2 things

asking to change a duration mod is pretty drastic and hard change.did the maths. duration mod doesn't scale very well. 28% gives it another 2.5 seconds. not sure if it adds much more. however it does scale well with maxed focus giving it an extra 7.5 per pulse which means at max level 32.5 per pulse is pretty good

i also feel you missed my point. EV shouldn't be made to keep a target alive to milk its benefits. even if it does damage over time.the skill makes me want it to keep it alive when in reality i want the target dead. i should have the options and benefits to either kill it on spot giving me a desperately needed 25 energy or waiting it out.

 

[BronzeDragon]

Power duration should work differently for skills that have an Over-Time effect.

Energy Vamp example: 100 energy over 12 seconds.

1) +25% Power Duration = 100 energy over 9 seconds. (Total time decreased by 25%)

And/or make it so any damage done to the enemy during Energy Vamp is applied after it wears off.

Or return it to the way it was.

Or make it the way it was except any damage done gives energy to the entire team albeit less, independent of who does the actual damage.

[L7ON]

Or rollback the change in EV, link and ready

[Tainted_Fox]

EV was too broken. way to easy to abuse for 50 energy. if you had and excalibur or nova you can clear any wave of enemies insanely quick with a constant spamming ult. and i mean CONSTANT. spaming ult

new link should stay. its god damn sexy

[GTG3000]

Maybe EV could become a pulse, centered on Trinity, Giving 50 energy per cast on an enemy... Plus 10-25 energy per Linked enemy?

EV was too broken. way to easy to abuse for 50 energy. if you had and excalibur or nova you can clear any wave of enemies insanely quick with a constant spamming ult. and i mean CONSTANT. spaming ult

new link should stay. its god damn sexy

New Link is nigh-useless. Sure you can exploit it with Ogris, but now it's a very expensive addition over Blessing. Yeah, I play Trinity all the time, but I don't think I used link more than a few times, more than half of those - to kill a bugged out enemy.

Link needs to bring the invulnerability back.

[Estred]

Maybe EV could become a pulse, centered on Trinity, Giving 50 energy per cast on an enemy... Plus 10-25 energy per Linked enemy?

New Link is nigh-useless. Sure you can exploit it with Ogris, but now it's a very expensive addition over Blessing. Yeah, I play Trinity all the time, but I don't think I used link more than a few times, more than half of those - to kill a bugged out enemy.

Link needs to bring the invulnerability back.

DE has said they do not like Invulnerability. I would assume because it promotes reckless game play, remember they are trying to make this a Team Based game. I would say this:

- Keep 75% Damage Reduction (period from both linked and unlinked targets)

- Focus increases the Damage Reflected and Number of Targets

*130% Damage and 4 Targets

- While linked Trinity deals constant damage to linked targets

*Damage dealt is converted to Trinities Shields.

 

Numbers of the constant damage and the siphon amount would be variable but Link is meant to be Trinities "protect me" button while Blessing is her "protect team" button. EV and WoL are for restoring HP/Energy as needed and I have a suggestion for EV.

 

Energy Vamp: Lifts target into the air pulsing energy for the team. Target is shielded for x10 it's HP. Energy Vampire deals (as it does now) damage directly to health for it's duration. So an enemy is likely to not die with EV on it, thus getting the duration but also takes HP damage thus also making the skill useful.

[GTG3000]

Well, I don't remember previous Trinity promoting reckless gameplay. If you were reckless, you ran out of power. 

 

Link didn't promote Reckless gameplay, it promoted hands-on gameplay. You stood near enemie, revived friends, and meleed the sheet out of everything else. It was unique, it was fun, and whoever puts game balance above that shouldn't be allowed near game design.

 

Besides, if they don't like invulnerability, they should remove Blessing. It's invulnerability for EVERYONE, easy mode for most of the missions. If the removal of link was "because we don't like invulnerability", then buff to the blessing makes no sence. Where it does make sence is in that Scott rubbed his chin and decided "no, Trinity, you can't be that fun to play, go back to kitchen.". We know for fact that he never really played this frame himself, and when he decided to fix her, what did he do? "Oh look, a support with no damagging abilities! That's not right, every support should survive by damage!".

 

Yeah, I still can just stand there and empty out the clip, although nothing really stops me from doing that with other frame, but Link made her gameplay brutally fun, if inefficient. Blessing, on the other hand, makes her a demi-god of support, making everything she touches either invulnerable or dead. Link, as a survival skill for a paper-thin support with no damage but her guns, was okay. Blessing, as a support tool that turns her teammates unstopable and her gameplay - into pressing 4 repeatedly while scavenging for orbs, is broken.

 

Yeah, Trinity was forced into being a better support, that's nice and all, but it was done... Through one of the worse ways. I see how Scott wanted to turn Trin-tanking into a powerhungry panicbutton, but it just doesn't feel well.

 

As I suggested earlier, it would be better if he changed blessing into being a ranged AoE that makes friendlies constantly regenerate and their bleedout timers to stop, it would be better if he made WoL a pulse from trinity to heal everyone as soon as the button is pressed, it would be better if he turned EV into an AoE with pre-fix cooldown, that would provide energy per amount of enemies it had in range, or in Link. But he should not have touched Link.

 

Fixing what is not broken is not what DE should be doing, not when there's actual issues at hand, not when they want to add new stuff and have to juggle their forces between tasks, not ever.

[jmthebigman]

Alright now that I've tested it, my original post about it destroying Trinity hasn't changed.

 

Energy Vampire, you can kill the enemy before it gives any energy. So you just lose energy.( could happen with the Energy vampire before the change, but even if you did any damage you'd get some energy back.) Now you have to wait, and hope it doesn't day so you get at least enough to cast the ability again. So it's now useless.

 

Link. Great now i get blinded and seem to take the same amount of damage with it on as I did with it off. I tested it in 3 missions. A low level a medium level and a high level.

 

I was dead on the medium/High level before the damage from link killed anything. Low level your shields are out by the time it kills 3 enemies. And good luck being able to see because the ability is to bright and basically blinds you.

 

Should of just left Trinity alone in my opinion. Now everyone else is going to leave her alone because she has only one useful ability Bless. Yay cast it get killed while casting it now, and then your team mate has to waste the time you gave them to be invulnerably ressing you.

 

perfectly explained.

[Psicomax]

i suggest developers roll back skills and start improving them cause its clear its a mess now

Edited September 25, 2013 by Psicomax

[PhantomBR]

Quick summary on her rework

1st, 2nd, and 4th ability. works amazingly. anyone that says shes not viable clearly shouldn't play her at all and doesn't deserve to.

BUT. if i was to talk more about it. my only gripe is the rework on energy vampire. i understand why it got altered to the way it is. but waiting for enemies to be milked for energy is a bad mechanic. you shouldn't have wait for enemies to be killed since your gonna kill them anyways. making us wait isn't the way to go. especially since other warframes will just kill it anyways without waiting

i suggest an energy orb drop of 25 energy if it doesn't reach the end of its duration before the target dies. or a burst of energy coming from the target (or a chance of)

 

Here's my suggestion about this a little higher.

Energy Vampire, too, there is a small flaw, the fact that it would be better if it worked waves emanating from the enemy came from within Trinity, and indeed the mechanics of power that would be a bit of maintenance skills, ie the ability to use and Trinity nachinnaet pulling out of the enemy's energy ( animation of how the Trinity is in the same position and pulls energy) replenishing your energy and expense of waves emanating from it adds to its allies. In this state, the way she can not move, shoot or use other abilities, but if you press while this ability on the same button that takes place following items, the ability to immediately stop wearing more damage to the opponent (like two in one cycle, as now understood This ability and work per cycle causes damage to the target, and with a wave of adds energy) and also makes up for the two measures energy. During the duration of the goal and immobilized, as if to interrupt it by pressing the button of the same capacity with the goal sbivaetsya feet is not a long time.

Also here is about the ability of the first Trinity

Well of Life's useless for the healer ability. Think about it we choose to face you, then anyone who shot him heal-_-it would be better not to do so, so you can use this ability for the player (!) While he recovers say 50 \ 100 \ 150 after 3 \ 6 \ 8 seconds respectively health improvement according to this ability. And besides that it was possible to make one more opportunity to raise the mechanics of an ally if that was knocked down and he's bleeding. Such a system is not enough to be real for the healer (not like now) so more will give more pleasure from the game and more features.

Edited September 25, 2013 by PhantomBR

[Keetsune]

Plz bring back old Energy Vampire. New one SUCK BALLS. Thanks.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Keetsune

[Tainted_Fox]

i don't understand about people gripe with link. does more damage than ever in the long run and tethers to 3 targets. and you want the old link back? sure its doesn't make you invulnerable but you still have your blessing. so now you have the choice to either deal more damage or full heal. or both. also these changes rolled her power into giving her more utility. so now she has stronger presence in missions.

New link is good. forces you to use other skills. and my game play has not been badly affected by it. only difference is i use blessing more often to revive down team mates than Link in some cases

also don't like the idea of trinity giving energy from within herself than from other targets. where's the maintenance in pressing a key for free energy is just encouraging lazy game play.

also old well of life wasn't really a game changer but now it slows down tanky's. thats awesome

EDIT: forgot to say. i still dont die from using link. doesn't need invulnerability

Edited September 25, 2013 by Tainted_Fox

[Shroudb]

reeally the only problem with new link is the "damage" part.

 

i can see a 75% DR and immunity to knockdown/energy drain, although in late game 25%damage is still enough to kill you in secs (mainly due to 10armor^^)

 

The problem is the "linked to 3 people to damage them" only really applies if you use ogris or if you stand in a toxic ancient's cloud. All other enemies do 1-2-1-2-2-2-1-2 damage to themsevles.

 

changing the damage type to serratted blades and putting a 100%/150%/200%/250% reflection would be much better and maybe somewhat useful.

 

edit:

imo, the better fix would be to up the link's damage even more (maybe 4x at max lvl affected by focus) BUT make it so that when you are invunerable you don't reflect any damage back.

 

atm, i personally only use wol when i want to get a guarantee ev off, this is due to blessings 100% heal. So, by this change you create 2 play styles: 1 is the "safe" way -> link for cc immunity, blessing for damage immunity, fire away. 2nd is the "risky way" link for some DR, and shoot targets that you mark with wol to get life back while targets sucide on you, using blessing only when S#&$ really hits the fan or when you need to save an ally.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Shroudb

[00zau]

Maybe make Link do percentage based damage in return? So if they would have dealt 10% of your (Shields + Health) in a single hit, you deal 25/50/75/100/% of that percentage to your linked targets (so at rank 4, 10% damage to you becomed 10% damage to your targets, while at rank 1 10% damage to you becomes 2.5% of total (shields + health) off your target). This would also allow you to balance your own health for risk vs reward; if you have a lot of health and shields, you aren't going to do as much damage to your targets, but if you have low health and shields, your likely to get yourself dead.

[Keetsune]

And by the way: please fix textures of Meridian Trinity Helmet, there is no HD textures for that helmet at the moment.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Keetsune