Can We Stop Catering to New Players?

[rune_me]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

So.... Maybe you should try reading instead of just replying? I'm clearly not the only person suggesting that you can have as much or as little challenge as you like. This means that if you aren't seeing any challenge, then you are at least partially responsible; you have no challenge because you don't want it.

But I do want it. I do not want it by having to disable my keyboard and play with one hand tied behind my back while wearing a blindfold. I want the game to provide me a challenge, not make them up myself. Again, harder difficulty means harder opponents, it does not mean removing your queen from the board. 

 

5 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

The resistance to those suggestions, hints at a deep seated fear of losing hold on the fantasy some endgame players have built. That view is strengthened by claims by some that skill is not a factor in success against high level enemies. 

No, the resistance comes from the fact that if I want to play chess, I want to play the game by the rules laid out by the designers of said game. I do not want to have to make up my own arbitrary rules, like removing pieces. Because then the game would no longer be chess. You are still, after all these posts, suggesting that I should stop playing the game as it is being offered to me.

And skill is not and will never be, a factor.

7 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Gee I wonder who brought up how hard they had to grind to get their memestrike?

Once again, you are replying to made up posts, or made up claims that were never made. Please read carefully again my words in the quote. Pause and consider what they mean, before replying. 

Yes indeed it was hard to grind. Like I said. It took hours. Like I said. 

And now let me repeat: I don't use maiming strike.

[unagy]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

I'm clearly not the only person suggesting that you can have as much or as little challenge as you like. This means that if you aren't seeing any challenge, then you are at least partially responsible; you have no challenge because you don't want it.

The resistance to those suggestions, hints at a deep seated fear of losing hold on the fantasy some endgame players have built. That view is strengthened by claims by some that skill is not a factor in success against high level enemies. 

What you're saying is that as long as there will be difficulty or 'challenge' once we all strip our frames and weapons down to flawed mods and Mk1s, the game does not need to do anything? Why have any enemies beyond level 30 then?

There is no absolute point beyond which people are allowed to say whether something is difficult or not. I know very well how to cap the Tridolon, but I don't bash my face into them for 13 months nor do I know the exact workflow to do it five times in one night; I have cleared the Mot node, but I haven't soloed it with Seeking Shuriken for several hours. However, I am still within reason to put forth that any instances of content explicitly provided e.g. sorties & arbitrations are still pegged relatively low compared to how much power standing/creep has influenced decent builds.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 minutes ago, rune_me said:

No, the resistance comes from the fact that if I want to play chess, I want to play the game by the rules laid out by the designers of said game. I do not want to have to make up my own arbitrary rules, like removing pieces. Because then the game would no longer be chess. 

You've never done chess puzzles, have you? Also please see the following link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handicap_(chess)

 

Next time, it may be a good idea to stick to games you are actually familiar with. 😉

8 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Once again, you are replying to made up posts, or made up claims that were never made. Please read carefully again my words in the quote. Pause and consider what they mean, before replying. 

Yes indeed it was hard to grind. Like I said. It took hours. Like I said. 

And now let me repeat: I don't use maiming strike.

Ohhhhh but you see I showed you why I mentioned it: because you were the person who mentioned it. 

And you missed something, I only pointed out that you will have a hard time equipping it to a sniper rifle in a sniper only sortie. If you want to try and disprove that, you are free to try. Until then, maybe you can stop replying to claims nobody made? (Yeah go ahead and check.) 

3 minutes ago, rune_me said:

And skill is not and will never be, a factor.

For you? I can believe that. 

 

12 minutes ago, unagy said:

What you're saying is that as long as there will be difficulty or 'challenge' once we all strip our frames and weapons down to flawed mods and Mk1s, the game does not need to do anything? Why have any enemies beyond level 30 then?

If this was the first time someone tried that one I'd give you a full response, right now all I'm going to do is suggest reading some of what was written so far (yeah that was specifically addressed and probably in the last few pages) and suggest considering how a spectrum works. There are a whole bunch of possibilities between the two extremes. 

 

Neat huh? 

[unagy]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

-snip-

For starters, you're conveniently sweeping aside your false assumption that someone (ab)uses Maiming Strike just because they went to go get it. So before you continue being snarky, deal with yourself first.

Also, all I'm going to do is take your suggestion and shove it right back up there, because I have read what was written so far. And it was a reply to what you said - namely that as long as players have a way to create a challenge for themselves, they should be satisfied. So I'm only repeating as far as you are.

EDIT: Addendum. What you're saying is that the onus is on players to cripple themselves as you see fit, in order to lower themselves to a point where whatever content they face is sufficiently challenging - that the devs and their game balance have nothing to do with it? Of course that's not what you're saying, so you conveniently gave yourself an out by saying the players are "at least partially responsible", so you're gonna use that to weasel your way out and say 'yeah, the devs have some part to play' and just leave it there for us to chew on.

Edited November 25, 2018 by unagy
Elaboration.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

6 minutes ago, unagy said:

For starters, you're conveniently sweeping aside your false assumption that someone (ab)uses Maiming Strike just because they went to go get it. So before you continue being snarky, deal with yourself first.

For starters I didn't ever make that claim, only pointed out that it cannot be put on sniper rifles in sniper only Sortie. (Go ahead and check it out, I'll wait.) 

 

8 minutes ago, unagy said:

Also, all I'm going to do is take your suggestion and shove it right back up there, because I have read what was written so far. And it was a reply to what you said - namely that as long as players have a way to create a challenge for themselves, they should be satisfied. So I'm only repeating as far as you are.

Not sure where you're trying to shove it. But good luck with that. 

[--Q--Merchant]

On 2018-11-21 at 4:19 AM, (XB1)Clockwork Geoff said:

I wonder if these 'skilled players' could beat a 1hr mot survival with no mods on guns or frames? You know, since it's a skill based game, the mods surely aren't necessary for someone who is really skilled?

Ok, done. 😄 (Don't mind me, I'm just being cheeky).

 

 

Edited November 25, 2018 by Merchant

[unagy]

18 hours ago, rune_me said:

I bring pretty much the same gear and frame for every single mission, because I am too lazy to swap. I don't even change my elemental damage depending on the enemy type. The only exception for this is hunting eidolons (because other players gets mad at you if you if you don't show up prepeared) and ESO (because I always solo it so you kind of have to bring a nuke frame if you want to get past zone 8). I still can't say I find anything challenging anywhere in the game. The weapons and frames are almost irrelevant, it's the mods that makes the difference. And no, i absolutely did no grind for hours and hours to get Ammo Drum or a faster reload mod. I did grind for hours and hours getting Condition Overload and Maiming Strike, though.\

Full paragraph provided for context, namely that mods made a difference and they got some.

4 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

The standard response seems to be "I shouldn't have to depower myself, for a challenge or not use my standard gear". Except for the fact that in this game we have both of those as central features certain mission types: when the Zanuka Hunter has captured you, you lose all access to abilities and weapons; and in sorties you can be restricted to a particular weapon type, so your beloved memestrike won't do you much good when you're trying to figure out how to use it in "sniper only". 

You think someone wanting to have two mods means that they're chronic spammers of the mechanic, which is the only reason why you mentioned it as beloved.

4 hours ago, rune_me said:

I never used maiming strike. Again, you are replying to imaginary posts. But nice try.

And no restriction in sortie ever made the mission more difficult or challenging. If this is all you are suggesting, then it is not a solution.

Stated plainly for your thick tin skull.

1 hour ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Gee I wonder who brought up how hard they had to grind to get their memestrike? 

Ohhhhh.. It was you. 🙄  What a surprise. Wait "surprise" isn't the word for that. 

I grinded very hard for my Condition Overload and Maiming Strike too. I even have it on some weapons. I've never used those weapons, so unfortunately for you, I don't have a "beloved memestrike" either.

56 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Once again, you are replying to made up posts, or made up claims that were never made. Please read carefully again my words in the quote. Pause and consider what they mean, before replying. 

Yes indeed it was hard to grind. Like I said. It took hours. Like I said. 

And now let me repeat: I don't use maiming strike.

Just in case your stubbornness didn't catch it the first time.

31 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Ohhhhh but you see I showed you why I mentioned it: because you were the person who mentioned it. 

And you missed something, I only pointed out that you will have a hard time equipping it to a sniper rifle in a sniper only sortie. If you want to try and disprove that, you are free to try. Until then, maybe you can stop replying to claims nobody made? (Yeah go ahead and check.) 

You also assumed that they loved it and memed with it.

EDIT: Dispense with the sass, sarcasm and thinly-veiled insults, we don't need them to tell that you're an ass.

tl;dr
"I never used maiming strike."
"Gee I wonder who brought up how hard they had to grind to get their memestrike?"
These two are enough to illustrate your jump to conclusions, snark and butchering of the mod's name notwithstanding.

Edited November 25, 2018 by unagy
Bold for emphasis. Also tl;dr.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

1 hour ago, Atsia said:

I'm don't know who you're trying to make out as the "true" player base (sounds really pretentious) but they'll likely see the exact same thing we all see, people do want harder content but no one can agree on what they want.

Well it's pretty much proven that less than 15% of a game's playerbase visits the forums.

Reddit is probably around the same percentage of the playerbase. (15 or less)

Most people don't really leave the medium if the game.

Hence why many on the forums feel ignored. As Rebecca has shown numerous times DE is paying attention to ingame numbers, stats, & etc. And that is what drives many of their decisions.

So to get a real feel for the audience DE should poll players in-game.

Threads like this can spawn positive ideas but all of us here on the forums are a huge minority of the playerbase.

[unagy]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

Well it's pretty much proven that less than 15% of a game's playerbase visits the forums.

It's not proof if you can't provide it. Please show us where you pulled the number from.

[rune_me]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

You've never done chess puzzles, have you? Also please see the following link: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handicap_(chess)

 

Next time, it may be a good idea to stick to games you are actually familiar with.

No. Handicap is not a part of the rules of chess. Like your suggestion, they are arbitrary made up rules. There are no handicaps in chess tournaments. There are in golf, because it's part of the the rules of golf. I did indeed stick to games I'm already familiar with.

32 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Ohhhhh but you see I showed you why I mentioned it: because you were the person who mentioned it. 

Ohhhhh but you see, I never once mentioned that I used maiming strike. You just failed to read a post before replying to it (which seems to be a pattern in your replies). I did however mention that I do not use maiming strike.

33 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And you missed something, I only pointed out that you will have a hard time equipping it to a sniper rifle in a sniper only sortie. If you want to try and disprove that, you are free to try. Until then, maybe you can stop replying to claims nobody made? (Yeah go ahead and check.) 

You would have a hard time equipping to a sniper rifle, period. Sniper sortie or not wouldn't make a difference. So now we are just stating the obvious, I guess.

35 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

For you? I can believe that.

Yes. I already told you I'm not a skilled Warframe player. I suck at shooters, which is why I love Warframe. Skill is not required, so I can still play it. Sorry, we can't all be super leet 360 no-scopers like you. But even a bad player like me can do all content in the game with my eyes closed. What does that say about the supposed difficulty of the game?

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

45 minutes ago, unagy said:

What you're saying is that as long as there will be difficulty or 'challenge' once we all strip our frames and weapons down to flawed mods and Mk1s, the game does not need to do anything? Why have any enemies beyond level 30 then?

There is no absolute point beyond which people are allowed to say whether something is difficult or not. I know very well how to cap the Tridolon, but I don't bash my face into them for 13 months nor do I know the exact workflow to do it five times in one night; I have cleared the Mot node, but I haven't soloed it with Seeking Shuriken for several hours. However, I am still within reason to put forth that any instances of content explicitly provided e.g. sorties & arbitrations are still pegged relatively low compared to how much power standing/creep has influenced decent builds.

 

25 minutes ago, unagy said:

Also, all I'm going to do is take your suggestion and shove it right back up there, because I have read what was written so far.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1031174-can-we-stop-catering-to-new-players/?do=findComment&comment=10347793

 

Here you go. I went ahead and found it for you. A response to someone pretending that the only options are OP and unmodded. Gee... I wonder who that was. Well whoever it was, that nonsense was dealt with several pages ago. So it's strange that you would parrot it now. Maybe you lack talking points? 

 

7 minutes ago, unagy said:

You think someone wanting to have two mods means that they're chronic spammers of the mechanic, which is the only reason why you mentioned it as beloved.

No the only reason I mentioned it is because they talked about how hard they ground for it. Seems to be a point of pride for some reason. For the record, I have one too, but not because I ground for it, I accept it's just because I got lucky with the RNG. 

Also pay closer attention to what you quoted, I didn't claim that they used it anywhere, but I pointed out that they couldn't put it on a sniper rifle in a sniper only Sortie. 

Of course, I enjoy the irony of the whole "you made a response to something that person never said" where your only proof is where you quote me not saying what they claimed I claimed. 

But hey I see that you're having an off day. Maybe have some coffee and try again later after you're done shoving whatever it was wherever it was? 

 

Good luck, mate. 

 

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

2 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Ohhhhh but you see, I never once mentioned that I used maiming strike. You just failed to read a post before replying to it (which seems to be a pattern in your replies). I did however mention that I do not use maiming strike.

Ohhhhh but you see, you quoted me not saying anything about you using it. Only that you can't use it in a sniper only Sortie. What that means is that you already accept that restrictions exist in various modes of Warframe. 

So nice try, but you replied to something that wasn't ever said. That's why I suggested that you check it again. You didn't. Which is quite funny, when you think about it. 

[unagy]

1 minute ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

-snip-

You said "a lot of possibilities". You did not say what they were. Hand-waving does not constitute actual knowledge or awareness.

You also said "your beloved memestrike". Which sounds about as much of a targeted insinuation as it gets.

 

I also said "any instances of content explicitly provided e.g. sorties & arbitrations are still pegged relatively low compared to how much power standing/creep has influenced decent builds". To which you've not said anything.

 

But hey I see you're running dry of things to say, which means you're having an off-day. Maybe have some toilet water to match the quality of your insults and attitude?

[rune_me]

Just now, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Ohhhhh but you see, you quoted me not saying anything about you using it. Only that you can't use it in a sniper only Sortie. What that means is that you already accept that restrictions exist in various modes of Warframe. 

Saying that you can't equip maiming strike on a sniper is about as irrelevant as anything. Of course you can't. That's like saying you can't use Saryn's spores while playing Mag. Duh!

Of course I accept that those restrictions exists. Certain mods belongs to certain weapon types, just like certain powers belong to certain frames. Those are restrictions made by the game developers and are part of the design of the game. Just like I can only jump a certain height when I hit the jump button. None of which has anything to do with anything that is being discussed here. I also can't use arch wing weapons in non-archwing missions, or my K-drive in regular missions. And so on and on.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

22 minutes ago, unagy said:

It's not proof if you can't provide it. Please show us where you pulled the number from.

Ok. I see where this is going.

1. I'm not going to argue with you.

If you want to have the ignorant mindset that the majority of Warframe players are logged onto the forums then more power to you.

However on average the vast majority of videogames & products typically see consumer participation on official forums & even reddit to be equal to 15% or less. Very few exceptions apply.

You need only think of how many active users across all 4 platforms play the game then consider how many actually come to the forums. It's not a high number.

2. You can google it yourself. I will not do homework for you. Because it's obvious you're trying to pick a fight.

3. The true percentage can only truly be confirmed by DE unfortunately.

With that I bid you good day.

Edited November 25, 2018 by (PS4)Zero_029

[unagy]

26 minutes ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

Well it's pretty much proven that less than 15% of a game's playerbase visits the forums.

Reddit is probably around the same percentage of the playerbase. (15 or less)

24 minutes ago, unagy said:

It's not proof if you can't provide it. Please show us where you pulled the number from.

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

Ok. I see where this is going.

1. I'm not going to argue with you.

If you want to have the ignorant mindset that the majority of Warframe players are logged onto the forums then more power to you.

However on average the vast majority of videogames & products typically see consumer participation on official forums & even reddit to be equal to 15% or less. Very few exceptions apply.

You need only think of how many active users across all 4 platforms play the game then consider how many actually come to the forums. It's not a high number.

2. You can google it yourself. I will not do homework for you. Because it's obvious you're trying to pick a fight.

3. The true percentage can only truly be confirmed by DE unfortunately.

With that I bid you good day.

Nowhere did I demonstrate "the ignorant mindset that the majority of Warframe players are logged onto the forums". Just because I am questioning your number doesn't mean I'm taking the extreme view of the other person just to oppose you.

You don't need to do homework for me, but you'd better have done some homework for that other person you responded to, before throwing the 15% number at them. And for someone who claims to have done your own homework, I guess it's not even "the true percentage".

Of course I'm "trying to pick a fight", because I expected this response since you lack the proof. And to that end, looks like a rather quick bail to me.

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

1 minute ago, unagy said:

You also said "your beloved memestrike". Which sounds about as much of a targeted insinuation as it gets.

As long as you're capable of discerning a difference betwixt and between "beloved" and "much used" then I have great hopes that you will eventually figure it out on your own. 😊

And yes I did say that a wide range of possibilities exist. There is a post on the very first page that outlines details for you. So pretending that only two possibilities exist over a dozen pages later is rather silly, don't you think? 

 

Oh and seriously? Toilet humor? Fun fact, if you understand how municipal water supplies work, you might want to rethink that one. (OK I know I will just have to spell it out for you, but check your municipal codes for fecal coliform load in potable water.) 

 

Good luck with that one. 

 

6 minutes ago, rune_me said:

Saying that you can't equip maiming strike on a sniper is about as irrelevant as anything. Of course you can't. That's like saying you can't use Saryn's spores while playing Mag. Duh!

Not entirely the same. The game mode creates restrictions on what you can and cannot use. Just as the other mode (sorry if I spoiled it for you) also strips your abilities and forces you to fend for yourself. Your claim that because you spent time and effort grinding for the gear and so should be allowed to use it whenever you like, is belied by both of those modes. So it's an invalid argument by precedent of what already exists:

 

Those are restrictions made by the game developers and are part of the design of the game. 

Do you see now? 

 

And there's nothing in the game that restricts you to only using overpowered gear, to the point where you believe that skill is not a factor in game play. Doing so on your own, only leads to ennui. You are one source of your own discomfort. 

[rune_me]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Not entirely the same. The game mode creates restrictions on what you can and cannot use. Just as the other mode (sorry if I spoiled it for you) also strips your abilities and forces you to fend for yourself. Your claim that because you spent time and effort grinding for the gear and so should be allowed to use it whenever you like, is belied by both of those modes. So it's an invalid argument by precedent of what already exists:

 

Those are restrictions made by the game developers and are part of the design of the game. 

Restrictions made by the game developers are fine. In fact, that's what I'm asking for. Make the game more challenging so I won't have to make up my own rules to do it. 

Removing a mod, or not formaing my weapon is not however restrictions made by the game developers. That's restrictions made by me. 

I am asking for different content in the game. Adding a new game mode that says I can not use, say, maxed out gear, is indeed new content. Removing the mods from my weapons however, is not. The content in that situation, remains exactly the same as it has always been.

20 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Do you see now?

No.

EDIT: Depends what you mean with "see". I've seen what you've been trying to say from the beginning. I just don't agree with it. I still don't agree with it.

20 minutes ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

And there's nothing in the game that restricts you to only using overpowered gear, to the point where you believe that skill is not a factor in game play. Doing so on your own, only leads to ennui. You are one source of your own discomfort. 

Lol I have no idea what you are on about now. What ennui? What discomfort? I am not suffering from any ennui, and I am currently feeling very comfortable. So no, it has led to neither of those things. But nice try.

And I don't use overpowered gear. And despite that, skill is still not a factor and will never be a factor.

Edited November 25, 2018 by rune_me

[(PSN)thecoolman575]

On 2018-11-22 at 10:41 AM, (XB1)Clockwork Geoff said:

Apologies, I haven't actually seen any answers to it?

I'd appreciate it if you can explain to me, how your skill alone (a no mod build) can beat a 1hr mot survival? Maybe I am missing some core mechanic to the game.

 

yeah, you can’t. you wont be able to get enough life support from the crates and capsules. when they had the level 9999, six minute survival alert in 2016, it was almost impossible to beat without a trinity (which wasn’t because of skill, that was just luck.) the first part mainly refers to your other post, but you can’t your kills per second up unmodded regardless and you end up running out of life support.

[(PSN)Zero_029]

5 hours ago, unagy said:

Nowhere did I demonstrate "the ignorant mindset that the majority of Warframe players are logged onto the forums". Just because I am questioning your number doesn't mean I'm taking the extreme view of the other person just to oppose you.

You don't need to do homework for me, but you'd better have done some homework for that other person you responded to, before throwing the 15% number at them. And for someone who claims to have done your own homework, I guess it's not even "the true percentage".

Of course I'm "trying to pick a fight", because I expected this response since you lack the proof. And to that end, looks like a rather quick bail to me.

Ok. I'll just go pull up DE's Numbers for you. (I wish I could. But that's not possible. I'll go PM Rebecca & get back to you.)

Statistically speaking for nearly every game. It usually rounds out to less than 15%.

I NEVER gave an exact number. And I wasn't responding to anyone.

I was posting because this thread has gone in circles & now has turned into a free for all between players.

You can call it a quick bail all you want. I will NOT waste my time fighting with you.

You joined this thread and started throwing haymakers. Now you're attacking anyone with a difference of opinion.

My post was stating that the only true way for DE to learn true player feedback from the MAJORITY of warframe players is to do a poll I,-Game, which is the best medium to get the bulk of feedback. Forums, Reddit, YouTube will never be the best example as they make up a severe minority of the playerbase.

Yet you want to battle with me over the statement that those mediums are not representative of the majority ofthe playerbase.

Which pretty much means that you feel a very large percentage do in fact visit the forums to submit feedback, visit reddit, & etc.

Unless that percentage exceeds 25-35% then DE really needs to carefully consider what such a minority suggests.

All segments of the community are important. But, DE needs to prioritize the segments that are the bulk. That's the harsh truth.

If around 70-75% of the community is happy with the current state of Warframe/changes to Fortuna then DE is doing the right thing.

Does this mean DE will ignore the 25%? No. But their requests will be met at a later date.

A good example of a game that did listen to the minority is Destiny 2.

Forsaken was an amazing expansion but it listened TOO intently to that minority. Now the game is bleeding players at an alarming rate, not meeting sales, & overall the fun factor/experience of the game has gone south.

The minority is extremely pleased but now they are starting to feel to dwindling playerbase.

Now, because you are extremely confrontational & aggressive. I'll explain...

I am by no means saying that all the ideas & concepts in this thread (hell I submitted a few good ones myself) would "kill" Warframe.

However the ideas, opinions (including my own) given in this thread are the voices of an extremely loud minority. It's a bitter pill but it's the truth.

The ONLY true way DE will ever know if they need to course correct and/or are on the right path is by pullingthe in-game populace.

The severe majority never sees these forums & won't be suggested or influenced by them, reddit, and even youtubers. So it would be HONEST & UNBAISED feedback.

End of story.

Edited November 25, 2018 by (PS4)Zero_029

[(XBOX)DDDROP THE BEES]

hmmm...maybe make the bounty level scale a little higher for each bounty, and make it so that instead of locking out certain resources to higher bounties, make you find more of them? Or not even do the last part, I'm a console peasant so idk exactly how fortuna works, but it sounds to me like having a few low, a mid, and a few higher bounties should do the trick. Just make the high bounties higher, ya know?

[unagy]

 

7 hours ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

Ok. I'll just go pull up DE's Numbers for you. (I wish I could. But that's not possible. I'll go PM Rebecca & get back to you.)

Statistically speaking for nearly every game. It usually rounds out to less than 15%.

I NEVER gave an exact number. And I wasn't responding to anyone.

So you weren't responding to anyone and you never gave a number? What are these then?

15 hours ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

This thread is still kicking huh?

Honestly, I think DE needs to do an "In-Game" poll like they did when PoE launched.

That way the TRUE playerbase can give DE the feedback they desire & deserve.

This is better than limiting it to the forums, Reddit, & the mindless sheep of [insert streamer/youtuber here].

That way the community truly can speak for itself. Period.

Then DE on a Devstream can reveal the results just like they did with PoE feedback. Then all this debate can cease & the forums can (temporarily) cease being a battle between who screams the loudest.

At this point the thread is just going in circles now.

14 hours ago, Atsia said:

I'm don't know who you're trying to make out as the "true" player base (sounds really pretentious) but they'll likely see the exact same thing we all see, people do want harder content but no one can agree on what they want.

12 hours ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

Well it's pretty much proven that less than 15% of a game's playerbase visits the forums.

Reddit is probably around the same percentage of the playerbase. (15 or less)

Most people don't really leave the medium if the game.

Hence why many on the forums feel ignored. As Rebecca has shown numerous times DE is paying attention to ingame numbers, stats, & etc. And that is what drives many of their decisions.

So to get a real feel for the audience DE should poll players in-game.

Threads like this can spawn positive ideas but all of us here on the forums are a huge minority of the playerbase.

I'm still waiting for the homework I'm sure you did before replying them.

 

Also, all I asked was

12 hours ago, unagy said:

It's not proof if you can't provide it. Please show us where you pulled the number from.

and that's my entire post and you still can't do it. I'm gonna repeat myself, and remind you, that nowhere in my question to you did I say any of the following:

7 hours ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

You joined this thread and started throwing haymakers. Now you're attacking anyone with a difference of opinion.

[...]

Yet you want to battle with me over the statement that those mediums are not representative of the majority ofthe playerbase.

Which pretty much means that you feel a very large percentage do in fact visit the forums to submit feedback, visit reddit, & etc.

[...]

Now, because you are extremely confrontational & aggressive. I'll explain...

I am by no means saying that all the ideas & concepts in this thread (hell I submitted a few good ones myself) would "kill" Warframe.

I asked where you got the number from, and now you're on the violent defensive just because you can't back it up.

 

I don't care whether "those mediums [are] representative of the majority ofthe playerbase". I don't feel that " a very large percentage do in fact visit the forums". I never put the words in your mouth that you say "that all the ideas & concepts in this thread [...] would kill Warframe".

Are you even looking at who you're talking to, and who was talking to you?

[(PSN)guzmantt1977]

15 hours ago, rune_me said:

Restrictions made by the game developers are fine. In fact, that's what I'm asking for. Make the game more challenging so I won't have to make up my own rules to do it. 

Right, so you look forward to them forcing you to not use the same things that you refuse to even consider not using currently. 

That makes sense to you? 

Because the "new game mode", which you indicate that you will support, will be something that you can currently do as indicated by a post on the very first page of this thread. This is like the kids complaining about having absolutely nothing to eat, until you take the bread, pb&j and magically transform it into a sandwich for them, one that they do know how to make and have had before in various forms. 

There is absolutely nothing stopping you from having more challenge right now, other than your refusal to have more challenge. 

[rune_me]

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

That makes sense to you? 

Yes.

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

Because the "new game mode", which you indicate that you will support, will be something that you can currently do as indicated by a post on the very first page of this thread.

No.

2 hours ago, (PS4)guzmantt1977 said:

This is like the kids complaining about having absolutely nothing to eat, until you take the bread, pb&j and magically transform it into a sandwich for them, one that they do know how to make and have had before in various forms. 

No, nothing like that at all. But nice try.

 

[(PSN)Zero_029]

@unagy

You literally posted my post. Did you read it? Did I quote anyone? Did I @ anyone? Did I name anyone. My post was a general comment.

@Atsia

Replied to me. And I replied.

Then you came and attacked me like @Atsia's rabid dog.

Just like you've done to just about everyone who's posted.

You're fighting just to fight.

You can say I have no proof and as a result I have no ground to stand on. So you're on the mindset that the majority do come here.

You're so dead set on trying to prove me wrong & discresit me that it reveals what your true thought process is.

Get over it.

Asking me to provide you with exact numbers that only a DE employee has information on is unrealistic. You dug up my posts to quote. So you saw my statement wasn't just limited to Warframe.

You can easily provide surveys and statistics from YEARS (2012-2015ish) back from Warcraft forums, FF14 Forums, & various MMO forums where devs did release how much of the percentage visits the forums. They ALL were below 15%. Hell Bungie released the numbers for Destiny forums a few years ago.

Now the gaming industry seems to hold everything close to their chest.

Which is why I straight up said: "a game's"

I honestly am trying to appeal whatever shred of intelligence & possible common sense you have. Hoping you have the same common sense like others in this thread who read my posts, nodded their head, & then went about their day. Because anyone with even the smallest amount of common sense understands that those percentages are pretty accurate.

Go in game and ask people if they visit the forums. The extreme majority will say no.

So get off your wet soapbox, stop starting fights, & stop trolling. Its irritating.

Now...go ahead and not pick this post to try & discredit me again.

I'm done trying to have a civil conversation with you. Call me a coward, call me out for bailing.

I don't come here to start fights or troll.

This is the last response you get. You've been fed.