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Ideas for Damage 3.0


(PSN)Saturn130
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I'm aware this has been covered many times, but I would like to voice my ideas. 

As far as the 3 physical damage types I believe that Slash should remain similar to how it is. 

Impact should be fluctuated between weapon type and range. With effects like stagger, stumble, knockdown, knockback, even ragdoll. Enemies within a simple stagger or stumble would gain increased damage at the minimal level, then damage will scale upwards depending how much the impact threw them. Also being knocked into walls or other hard surfaces should deal impact damage as well. 

Puncture...I think this should have a different effect altogether. Should be closer to what the name suggest. It would be the weapons innate punch through damage/effectiveness. For instance, a sniper rifle will have the most innate punch through because it's high power, but for a bow it still has a high puncture ability, but ability to hit other targets behind its scaled down. Shotguns would be based on range and percent values per pellet. Beam weapons should get a decent amount too for their high energy outputs. It would eliminate the need to equip punch through mods... or alter the mods to add more of a chance to punch through and cause more damage to the targets behind. 

 

 

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The whole reason people hated damage 2.5s impact changes was because DE wanted it to proc rag doll. It makes landing headshots for maximum damage output difficult to near impossible.

As for puncture. You seem to not fully grasp what status procs are. They can’t just make certain procs happen for specific weapons. Status procs are the same for all damage type regardless of weapon.

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3 hours ago, (PS4)Saturn130 said:

As far as the 3 physical damage types I believe that Slash should remain similar to how it is. 

Then this idea has nothing to do with what's best for the game, only to maintain the existing builds and give a token effort to make Puncture and Impact more viable. Spoiler: Slash would still be the outright best IPS in your proposal, rendering the work done on the others moot.

How would your Puncture idea work on melee weapons?

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I do seem to fully grasp how procs work. Im no newbie to this game by any means. I get that it does not proc based on individual weapon.... my point is that for a damage 3.0, it's gotta change to something more drastic. I guess I should be a little more specific. Puncture shouldn't be a numerical damage number at all. As in 125 puncture damage. Because when you punch holes through things guess what, it will bleed. Slash should actually be called bleed. The more power you use for puncture, the more you will cause a bigger bleed over time. Which in turn would actually synergize with each other. When using impact, I'm not suggesting ragdolling with every single hit. That would be ludicrous. Ragdoll would be left to weapons which are basically like the sonicor, or to the more obvious blast procs. 

Basically, having the 3 different damage types, one that does DOTs are always gonna be on top. If they nerf that ability, everybody will just get upset. But if they combine them into a single damage, with bleeding and puncture working as a background percentage, and impact being more of crowd control with smaller chances of bleed procs. (Like internal bleed) 

It would work equally as well for melee combat. Just because most of them aren't projectiles, doesn't mean you can't punch holes for bleed, or use a hammer to knock enemies around. It would make some weapons like even the skana more effective. The more physical hits you are getting in, the more you are causing an enemy to bleed. Of course still based on duration. 

The biggest problem is, that there are too many tiers of weapons so obviously people will flock to the highest damaging ones, but if you level the damages each weapon is capable of, then we could use some favorites for higher tier missions. 

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Someone suggested that impact should be like corrosive but instead of halving the armor, it reduce by base dmg.

 

Impact should stun enemy longer when proc the same target.

 

Puncture should allow to disarm enemy for player's weapon (enemy stay with 50% reduce dmg status). Puncture original dps reduction should be combined with this new one. So it do both disarm and reduce dmg.

 

Slash is too good. Keep it that way. (Good physical dmg for survival nekros farm)

 

Sentinel weapons shouldnt have slash as their primary stat dmg (since they dont deal enough dmg to sortie lvl and condition, it should keep proc debuff status) . If this type of rework is going to happen.

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I think statuses need to be tweaked to hedge out a clearer identity for each one, because currently, not much point in using anything other than Slash, and if you start slapping damage multipliers on the other statuses, then people are just going to flock to whichever makes the enemy dead faster, they won't care about the details.

Conventionally, impact damage is the complete and raw transference of energy, and is much of the reason why body armour requires so much padding in real life because the bullet may not breach the metal armour, but the impact is certain to rupture something.  The slow and inevitable damage type.

Slash-stype damage is debatably the most useless against almost any type of armour, but if it gets through, bleed for days, cut through muscles, all kinds of horribleness.  Kind of why swords are basically useless against a fully armoured knight, and people end up slapping each other with pommels.  The terrifyingly deadly-but-niche damage.

Puncture is straight-forward, and kind of got its niche robbed by Punch-Through mods and innate punch-through on weapons.  Kind of like the in-between for Slash and Impact, since it'll go through armour but all of its force is spent on piercing right through the target instead of being completely absorbed like impact or utilized for maximum damage like Slash.

But I think in order to properly give statuses an identity, it might be an idea to remove the 'chance' element and do something similar to Dark Souls, where an ailment sort of builds up, if not applied immediately, depending on the strength of the thing.
It'd give options for how the status applies itself, where perhaps Magnet has to build up a critical mass before it destabilizes a shield, or Cold is progressively applied until people are frozen solid, Mei-style.

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  • 3 weeks later...

IPS needs to be rebalanced. Nobody wants impact damage or proc AT ALL, and nobody takes Pierce weapons for its proc. 

+% IPS mods should operate like Element mods, working off total base damage so they aren't trash on split-damage weapons (eg, Burston). This offers more damage type control. Make them exclusive to each other, like Prime variants are to their base mods.

Single-element options need to be tuned to be desirable options away from element-stacking rainbow builds. When was the last time anyone loaded Cold or Electric-only elements to a weapon, rather than hop on the meme train with Corrosive. There needs to be a way to have multiple singular elements on a build with multiple elements, eg, ways to NOT have Electric and Cold forced to combine to magnetic.

Enemies need to be rescaled more linearly rather than exponentially, particularly with grineer armor which is the super-tanker fueling the Multishot+Corrosive meme machine.

Mandatory mods need to stop being a thing. It's a mod-space tax, and detracts from variety and variability. Multishot and Serration/Point/Hornet need to stop existing. If it's on every gun, the problem is either the gun or what it's shooting at; the mod is just a patch-job for fixing power creep at the player's expense (mod point tax)

Edited by Zourin
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On 2018-11-20 at 10:07 PM, (PS4)Saturn130 said:

I'm aware this has been covered many times, but I would like to voice my ideas. 

As far as the 3 physical damage types I believe that Slash should remain similar to how it is. 

Impact should be fluctuated between weapon type and range. With effects like stagger, stumble, knockdown, knockback, even ragdoll. Enemies within a simple stagger or stumble would gain increased damage at the minimal level, then damage will scale upwards depending how much the impact threw them. Also being knocked into walls or other hard surfaces should deal impact damage as well. 

Puncture...I think this should have a different effect altogether. Should be closer to what the name suggest. It would be the weapons innate punch through damage/effectiveness. For instance, a sniper rifle will have the most innate punch through because it's high power, but for a bow it still has a high puncture ability, but ability to hit other targets behind its scaled down. Shotguns would be based on range and percent values per pellet. Beam weapons should get a decent amount too for their high energy outputs. It would eliminate the need to equip punch through mods... or alter the mods to add more of a chance to punch through and cause more damage to the targets behind. 

 

 

by my understanding, you main goal with this rework is to make the damage type behave more inline with the "impact", "puncture", "slash" description, correct? 

if that is the case, i would say that ... well you are doing it backward. "Impact", "slash", "puncture" is just names, and between changing the name to fit with the effect of the prod or changing the prod effect to match the name, changing the name is always less costly . "Impact" prod effect is crow control, "puncture" 's is reduce enemy damage, "slash" 's is damage over time. The names are only affordances to make the effects took less mental strain to remember for the players, like the push and pull bar on a door, a door priority is to be able to open and close first.

When talking about Damage 3.0, people usually talking about drastic change on the scale of the effects (crow control now have tiers, reduce damage debuff now stack, and damage over time now nerfed to the ground - a few simplified points of the damage 3.0 that never was), not to change the effect itself to match the label of the damage prod.

 

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