How to instantly and easily make Operator mode +300% fun and -200% hated

[Nitro747]

Just add parkour to them. Not the same as what Warframes use, because that would look odd and kinda silly tbh. Or at least just implement the same thing but without bullet jump since we can literally teleport anyway (and teleporting is at least 56.95% more cool than spamming bullet jumps).

Really, we get to use operators when we are already used to blitz a mission in seconds in the most mobile characters of any game we played and when we get to use them they move like snails. Void dash/teleport is cool but 99% of time we want to go from point A to point B and end up in point Z because void dash has a very, very big range.

If they could run a bit faster, have a way to go over obstacles and have some "cool" parkour and a way for them to go over THAT ledge without using a dash that ends up placing us far away than where we anticipated, things would be nicer for the Operators. It was already quite THE big deal when we got our "battle operators"; the added mobility wasn't that great, but was enough for us to feel the huge improvement of before.

(also, out of topic: void procs should weaken armor. Amps are great against anything but grineer because of the silly way armor works in this game. Just saying...).

[Frenrihr89]

i would love to use operator in first person view ^^

Edited November 23, 2018 by Frenrihr89

[Genitive]

Cool idea. I would like at least aim gliding. And maybe better facial animations.

[BiancaRoughfin]

Usually players that complain about Operators not being fun are Zenurik users that use Operator for nothing more than Energy Regen.

Personally i enjoy playing the Operator, not something Constant tho, i like comboing it with my Warframe for some things and being a Vazarin player, i pop in and out of my operator often to regenerate the team`s health, resurrect teammates, give Overshields or in rare occasions, use the Aegis to protect them or some objective.

[Nitro747]

16 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Usually players that complain about Operators not being fun are Zenurik users that use Operator for nothing more than Energy Regen.

Personally i enjoy playing the Operator, not something Constant tho, i like comboing it with my Warframe for some things and being a Vazarin player, i pop in and out of my operator often to regenerate the team`s health, resurrect teammates, give Overshields or in rare occasions, use the Aegis to protect them or some objective.

Ok... good for you I guess? Don't think you realized but people here are talking about making operators more fun, not asking for what you usually do when you play operators and babbling about what "players who complain about operators are..." sort of tantrum... õ_o

[peterc3]

There's already an armor weakening status proc. Why not something else if you don't like Magnetize-lite and Corrosive?

Would people even notice "improved" movement for Operators given the majority of players are probably not going to be all that invested into them and therefore won't have the Health or Armor stats on them to survive outside Void Mode for extended amounts of time.

[Zavenosk]

Best way to make operators better is to remove the cloned flesh resistance to void damage.

[Nitro747]

6 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

There's already an armor weakening status proc. Why not something else if you don't like Magnetize-lite and Corrosive?

Would people even notice "improved" movement for Operators given the majority of players are probably not going to be all that invested into them and therefore won't have the Health or Armor stats on them to survive outside Void Mode for extended amounts of time.

they get pretty tanky with arcanes and way bounds plus srsly, why not adding this? How do you know "the majority of players are not going to be that invested"? People really liked when they first introduced the new operator moves and activelly tried to use them more often because they became much more viable then before. So why not?

[peterc3]

1 minute ago, Nitro747 said:

they get pretty tanky with arcanes and way bounds

How many people do you think have those Arcanes or those Waybounds all done?

[Nitro747]

Just now, peterc3 said:

How many people do you think have those Arcanes or those Waybounds all done?

quite a bunch with more on the way. If operators get less clunky, people will likely want to invest more into them, which was exactly what happened when they introduced Focus 2.0 for instance. In either case, trying to predict things using vague phrases like "the majority of players will not..." is just not the point of the topic.

[TheQuartakkMain]

The tenno needs some care .
I don't see the reason to make operator tennogen, if I don't see the operator in gameplay=I don't see the cosmetic stuff in gameplay just in eidolon hunt or (soon TM) spider hunt :/
The best way to make operator more useful is . Make possibility to use weapons with operator !
Improve the parkour with operators.
Why ? because why not ? lots of people start using operator= more people care about tenno fashion =More money

A lots of people complain about : But if we give operator chance to become stronger ( better parkour , weapon use , or other stuff) Why the player should use warframes ?
Because operators don't have abilities like warframes , Operator dies easy ...

[(PSN)NemitheNem]

I feel like giving the full Parkour set to the Tenno would interfere with Void dash stuff.

But maybe something like in Chimera, only allowing us to mark the locations we want to dash towards?

Also an automatic thing where if we do our pitiful Tenno jump against something tall we will scramble up it.

[Viedra_Lavinova]

21 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Usually players that complain about Operators not being fun are Zenurik users that use Operator for nothing more than Energy Regen.

Personally i enjoy playing the Operator, not something Constant tho, i like comboing it with my Warframe for some things and being a Vazarin player, i pop in and out of my operator often to regenerate the team`s health, resurrect teammates, give Overshields or in rare occasions, use the Aegis to protect them or some objective.

Well maybe if the other schools had an active energy option like energy dash, people would try other schools. Too many things in game try to fight over your energy, when energy enables the game to be fun, at least in my opinion.

I love operators, but the school trees need a rework. (But that is a discussion for another thread and time.)

And these people saying energy pads or arcane energize are just spouting bandaids to avoid the issue.

 

I would love more movement options for the operator.

[Daughteru]

On 2018-11-23 at 12:23 PM, Nitro747 said:

Ok... good for you I guess? Don't think you realized but people here are talking about making operators more fun, not asking for what you usually do when you play operators and babbling about what "players who complain about operators are..." sort of tantrum... õ_o

Operators are insanely fun. But you must invest the time into them just like every aspect of Warframe. Every time I hear people complaining about how boring operators are, or hilariously "operators are too slow" ^{like the guy above me}, when in reality operators are the fastest mode of travel in the game besides an itzal with full energy, it makes me laugh. But it also makes me sad because these people are complaining without having actually put in the time to understand or experiment with operators outside of zenurik energy bubble. 

It is the same thing as people complaining that a warframe at lvl 1 is boring because it can't do anything but walk forward with no abilities. Operators have nothing until you invest time to level them and aquire the skills that MAKE them fun.

If you don't want to do the grind to make operators fun, fine that's your choice. But don't complain that operators are boring and need a change. I am in operator form probably 25-30% of the time during gameplay and it is a great addition to the combat/gameplay flow. They don't need any changes to make them more fun because they already are fun. Experiment a little. Frames that don't need energy can benefit from Unairu's Sundering Dash (which is extremely powerful) instead of using zenurik, etc.

Edited November 24, 2018 by Daughteru

[Divinehero]

the difference is the amt of effort required to make ur operator strong dwarfs what it takes to make a warframe strong

[Daughteru]

17 minutes ago, Divinehero said:

the difference is the amt of effort required to make ur operator strong dwarfs what it takes to make a warframe strong

That's because operator skills are very powerful, and acquiring them will change how you play the game completely. If you invest in naramon dash for mobility, you can travel 200m in 2 seconds every 5 seconds. Is that not powerful or mobile enough for you? Not only is it 200m in 2 seconds, it's 200m in ANY direction. Would you rather survive longer in operator? Rank up the armor and health regen trees and become invincible. Paired with a strong amp, the operator can solo almost all content up to lvl 90-100. A level 145 corrupted bombard only takes 2000 damage from 22,000 radiation damage arca plasmor. But if I use Unairu's sundering dash on it once, the damage goes up to 6k. If you dash twice now you do 13k. This also works on bosses and enemies with insane armor like Lephantis. Now add Unairu's Crippling Dash on top of that. It permanently reduces your target's damage by 50%. Is that not also very powerful?

TLDR; My belief is that people do not understand how powerful operators can truly become, so they are not incentivised to grind for focus. They think it is a waste of time because why waste so much time farming focus when operators completely suck? Then they complain that operators suck and the cycle continues because people read that operators suck and automatically give up trying to farm focus.

Edited November 24, 2018 by Daughteru

[Nitro747]

25 minutes ago, Daughteru said:

Operators are insanely fun. But you must invest the time into them just like every aspect of Warframe. Every time I hear people complaining about how boring operators are, or hilariously "operators are too slow" ^{like the guy above me}, when in reality operators are the fastest mode of travel in the game besides an itzal with full energy, it makes me laugh. But it also makes me sad because these people are complaining without having actually put in the time to understand or experiment with operators outside of zenurik energy bubble. 

It is the same thing as people complaining that a warframe at lvl 1 is boring because it can't do anything but walk forward with no abilities. Operators have nothing until you invest time to level them and aquire the skills that MAKE them fun.

If you don't want to do the grind to make operators fun, fine that's your choice. But don't complain that operators are boring and need a change. I am in operator form probably 25-30% of the time during gameplay and it is a great addition to the combat/gameplay flow. They don't need any changes to make them more fun because they already are fun. Experiment a little. Frames that don't need energy can benefit from Unairu's Sundering Dash (which is extremely powerful) instead of using zenurik, etc.

Operators are the "fastest" mode of travel in specific situations. A Zephyr can be faster than an Operator since it doesn't need to wait a couple of seconds to keep traveling. Same goes for Volt.

Again, good for you that you like using Operator so much. But just stop with this annoying trend of being "omg, I LOVE using operators so there is NOTHING that they could possibly do to make them any better". It completely derails the thread and its just obnoxious since you do you, you don't speak for an entire community. If you bothered to read the OP you would realize that no one ever said that using operators is "boring" or that they are weak.

Also, just stop assuming people "didn't want to grind to make operators fun" when, for instance, I have every focus skill unlocked, every amp and most of operator arcanes and I'm fully aware of what they can and cannot do. This is what is messed up with this community. No one can suggest anything that some white knight will drop from heavens saying how he "laughs" whenever he reads any thread of the sort, and how he loves doing X thing and that is a proof that there is nothing "wrong" or needing improvement with the game.

Edited November 24, 2018 by Nitro747

[Daughteru]

I read your suggestion. I just don't quite understand what you would gain from adding parkour to operators? If you wanted smaller movement abilities like you said, the slide is quite good at that and pretty fast as well. I'm all ears to hear some of the parkour ideas you have, but you didn't really list anything specific. Most situations sliding or dashing covers most types of movement you would want to accomplish. Warframes don't have that many movement options that differentiate themselves from operators besides wall-running and wall-clinging. Rolling/sliding is the equivalent of operator sliding, and the backflip is just a unique animation (which the operator also has for their back slide). There's also no reason to justify that volt and zephyr are faster, because using volt/zephyr does not mean you can't also use operator to supplement their outrageous speed even more.

In the end, you are correct I assume that most people complaining about operators or asking to make them more fun haven't invested the time and is something that I shouldn't jump to conclusions about, but it usually happens to be the case. You are an outlier in that you have maxed all operator skills and still think they need something extra to be fun. But the reason I jumped to this conclusion in the first place is because your title has the line "and -200 less hated" which I thought applied to how you felt about them.

But in the end, my TLDR in the post above is my explanation of why operators are so hated in the first place. Unlike the two of us, most people just don't realize the power operators have because people don't use them much in the first place. I've probably only met two or three people who have asked me "How the hell do you move so fast?" and when I explain that it is an operator skill in the naramon tree, they always reply with "Damn I really need to learn that". Imo just not enough information on operators out there.

Edited November 24, 2018 by Daughteru

[Nitro747]

21 minutes ago, Daughteru said:

I read your suggestion. I just don't quite understand what you would gain from adding parkour to operators? If you wanted smaller movement abilities like you said, the slide is quite good at that and pretty fast as well. I'm all ears to hear some of the parkour ideas you have, but you didn't really list anything specific. Most situations sliding or dashing covers most types of movement you would want to accomplish. Warframes don't have that many movement options that differentiate themselves from operators besides wall-running and wall-clinging. Rolling/sliding is the equivalent of operator sliding, and the backflip is just a unique animation (which the operator also has for their back slide). There's also no reason to justify that volt and zephyr are faster, because using volt/zephyr does not mean you can't also use operator to supplement their outrageous speed even more.

In the end, you are correct I assume that most people complaining about operators or asking to make them more fun haven't invested the time and is something that I shouldn't jump to conclusions about, but it usually happens to be the case. You are an outlier in that you have maxed all operator skills and still think they need something extra to be fun. But the reason I jumped to this conclusion in the first place is because your title has the line "and -200 less hated" which I thought applied to how you felt about them.

But in the end, my TLDR in the post above is my explanation of why operators are so hated in the first place. Unlike the two of us, most people just don't realize the power operators have because people don't use them much in the first place. I've probably only met two or three people who have asked me "How the hell do you move so fast?" and when I explain that it is an operator skill in the naramon tree, they always reply with "Damn I really need to learn that". Imo just not enough information on operators out there.

To my experience and to what a lot of people told me, its the lack of a smooth moving warframe to a hard brick that operators are. You are stuck between snail speed and instant teleport to 200m away.

Back in the day operators were disliked because there was none of the current powers and zero movement. You could just run and do 4 dashes, capped. When focus 2.0 came out and introduced a new movement set for operators they started to become quite loved by the community. But they are still clunky and its still kinda odd to people who jump from normal warframe playstyle to operators.

And as I said before, they don't need to be crazy fast like warframes. Nor do I think they should. Just add some slight parkour. Make them run faster, add a way for them to overcome obstacles without needing to teleport to the ceiling and then quickly teleport back to the floor (with extra possibility of missing and ending up dashing to a place you totally didn't want). They can already run like ninjas in the dashwire, it makes no sense that they simply cannot overcome simple obstacles or climb a wall.

[Daughteru]

Hm, you are right about focus 1.0 That is something I didn't consider for why people dislike operators. It has been so long I forgot entirely about pre 2.0

I can agree with all your movement suggestions, especially running faster. Although how to implement something like that I have no good insight for. I must just be so adapted to using terrain to stop my dashes short or dashing into ledges to grab them that I haven't considered smaller parkour options. 

I think one of the bigger problems is that the operator slide for movement is locked behind getting your first amp so when new players unlock it the movement is stale because all you can do is run forward. The slide should be in there from the start because even though it doesn't go that far, it's way better than just running forward.