Suggestions to make Conclave popular

[Elementalos]

Better rewards would be nice, Warframe relies pretty heavily on its endless resource treadmill as a core gameplay gimmick and even low level missions give resources that stay relevant. Conclave takes you off the treadmill. 

Another issue though is that Conclave is pretty well hidden. There's no opening quest that introduces you to Conclave and it's not on the star chart. From my experience a lot of new players don't even realize that Warframe has a PvP option. 

[Aramil999]

On 2018-12-20 at 10:30 PM, Elementalos said:

Better rewards would be nice, Warframe relies pretty heavily on its endless resource treadmill as a core gameplay gimmick and even low level missions give resources that stay relevant. Conclave takes you off the treadmill. 

Another issue though is that Conclave is pretty well hidden. There's no opening quest that introduces you to Conclave and it's not on the star chart. From my experience a lot of new players don't even realize that Warframe has a PvP option. 

Yeah, Conclave simply puts you out of Grind Routine and it is so hidden and new players unfriendly that... well noone stays with it. Not because it is THAT bad like some people claim.

[9-Breaker]

I was once from PVE, until I tasted PVP. xD

[9-Breaker]

 

Might this idea help?
 

On 2018-12-14 at 8:47 PM, 9-Breaker said:

Good day everyone, I hope you're doing well in health and in life.
This is my first post to contribute an idea...or rather, a change in thinking if you will. This relates to Warframe of course.

Things to Address: 

1. PVP rework of the U.I. (User Interface) SPECIFICALLY. (By far, to me...the most integral part of pvp being a YES or a NO.) - *Handle with care* - It is to be different from PVE.

2. Several PVP System Convergence (Not sure if its a coined term but I'd call this system emergence theory..and it sounds cool) to daily PVP Standings.

(PVE Standing is a different sector, you see where I'm going with this?) - This is to give value to the sector and open a new door. It's worth a shot.

 

3. Warframe MMR Learder Boards: To incorporate several pre-exsisting system into "Rank system" to further perpetuate the value of PVP side of Warframe.

(K-Drive Race, Ludoplex, Lunaro, Various existing pvp modes. To be linked with point 2.~ Idea reserved to be expanded on in Warframe World)

4. U.I Rework of Personal Profile of Players: To show PVE / PVP database in a "engaging manner" / Show Activity through graphs of various types: ~To be expanded on / K/D Ratio along with W/L Ratio of PVE and PVP.  

 

PVP rework of the U.I of the third (Until number 3) kind:
- Visualization is to turn PVP into a "Lobby Compartment like design" to give players FWEEDOMM of choice to fight on which favorite map they desire and earn standings. (~Idea to be expanded on with professionals) (Referencing Sudden Attack/Gunbound U.I for starts) 

-->This action expands on the value of several U.I theme that's already there to be which is to be expanded on.(~To be discuss and expanded on) (Basically: System Convergence Theory or Fact?)

-Now to some nitty gritty:

-->Map battle expansion (Ver.1)

RULES: Melee/Primary/Secondary only/ Free for All (To tie in dark sector revival or homage) ~To be expanded on MMR System

TYPE: One man Army / Battle Royale  / Team Fortress  / First person perhaps? / etc.~ To be expanded on. [ And to be clear...57 Warframes as of date today, is not a small number. It's time to innovate]

MODE: Solo/Double Trouble/Triple Madness/Quadruple wuple. (Brah..) - During when entering entering the PVP of Warframe. (Solo and Team RANK MMR to be discussed on leader boards)

-->Team Bot Battle's PVP : Normal / Die Hard / Digital Extreme 

-->Open Voice Initiation. Increase interactivity by placing open voice chat option into PVP for both team and for all. (To be integrated into PVE on larger crowds) *This point serve as another segway for another time* - Interaction theory of games

 Chat Channels: PVP only (Trust me, just do it. It will play a vital part down the line) - To incentivise PVP into public and private rooms and encourage to earn standings of PVP.

This leads to content diversion towards PVP rewards.

 

U.I Rework of Personal Profile:

There's alot to discuss on this, and by alot let me give you a taste: GIF format integration into profile picture (Rewards of PVP when earned) = Captura video option into profile background + Comment and commend system + Theme U.I

-->This segways again into fashion frame monthly contest idea and reward system by the community and for the community. i.e: Highest commendation leader board (to be rewarded with limited edition sigils and all) or Most voted frame to be cool. (This is to incentivise the purchase of skins that can bring actual Value)

 (~But this is another matter for another time)

-->Implementation of personal profile option such as Facebook. (or Vice versa) into Profile. Perhaps a link or the U.I itself IN personal profile system of Warframe. (To add more interaction into community, simple by paper, but to be proven once implemented and to be monitored) ~ This is highly debatable and I wish to see both good and bad of this from your side. Your move Warframe community if you want this OPTION or not.  

(~To be swayed into Facebook In Warframe.)

--> Achievement Medals on Personal Profile. This is to be shown in chat to further incentivise profile viewing and interaction + Commend and comment + Monthly Contest of Best profile presentation. (To be given once per player)

~(Segwayed into Personal profile customization, tbc)

--> To showcase Sigils and Regalia Earned to viewer.

~(New Idea emerged: Segway to sound reskins, Firing sound mechanic or effects of weapons to furthur increase value of purchase if bought. Application of futuristic weapon skins  AK-47 / M4A1 / TRG, etc To be linked with PVP reward system.) [To be discussed in sound design] Also, pay VERY close attention to the words used for this particular expansion point.

 

My future hopes of Warframe is to innovate and incorporate values of purchased items into several "SECTORS". PVP in particular. Tell me if its a crazy make this system worthy into a Tenno Con E-Sport some time in the future? Who know's, we are the masters of our fate. (EDGE LORD 100%)

 

I Impart some idea's to Digital Extreme based on my experience of playing warframe for too long. (Grinding does change a person)

You have a choice to listen to us (or not) and to make it this farrr..*fade away effects* thus we give back in some sort of collective idea for the future of the company. This is to further perpetuate our symbiosis between player/buyer/consumer and developer.

As for you players out here, ladies and gentlemen, I congratulate you on making this far. I do hope you have a pleasant trip. Let us all push this idea forward and hope to get a feedback. Follow the rules of compromization and accept the outcome what it may be. 

I'd like to apologize for any use of language or mistakes made before hand when typing this out. I do hope my style of writing this does not offend anyone in anyway.  I'm still new at this and will learn slowly to give the best constructive feedback I can give. 

 

Bonus side notes: These are the thoughts in my head due to overthinking sometimes:

Core concept here is the retention of players after PVE grind is done. Shift attention to and show the worth of PVP aspects.

(A formula developed on a whim, not sure if its related to something so here it is: Retention = Content + Community Feedback + Services provided + VALUE) - May this serve a blueprint. 

(Problem is HOW? I solve it through Visualization)

On a first side note: The mechanics of the motion might get revised in EXTREME cases but the Plan A of it is to build upon the foundation.

Second side note: How to shift players direction completely on a new scale but in the same game. An...INnovation if you will.

Third side note: All mention idea's are subjected to melee 3.0 / Pet 2.0 / or whatever point O's.

Edit: December 17 2018
~Updated test to fit the community better. 
 

 

[(PSN)Dubufu]

On 2018-12-20 at 7:54 AM, Aramil999 said:

Well i agree and disagree.

If you play vs weak, normal or even good pvp players, good loadout = win,

BUT if you fight insane skilled Conclave Veterans, then no cheese, OP Zaw, Op warframe will make you win vs Snipetron/Vectis kills from accross the map with no chance to even use your "cheesy/noob" tactics.

Some weapons take placement, good aim and timing to pull off, I understand that. I run bows all the time, so that applies. 

But I still think that any vet can have better results if they run a meta weapon. What's stopping them anyway? What's stopping them from being the Vectis with something like Mios? Nothing. Even vets use cheap tactics to insure they shutdown people doing the same thing

Edited December 21, 2018 by (PS4)Dubufu

[(PSN)santospizarro]

announce lunaro and conclave in cities and relay stations so players can get excited over lunaro and add incentive/prizes for participants. Various factions join, navigation is updated to feature sports, and pvp advocacy illustration/video stream, twitch prime advertisements + bonuses, and new blueprints and pets.

[(PSN)GrandisSupernus]

On 2018-11-27 at 9:34 PM, Phernok said:

The second issue is the rewards should have unique Syndicates weapons and would be great arcanes (would be great new arcanes in weekly missions) It would be great if the conclave were a more active part of the game to get things, like the Eidolon or the other Syndicates.

On 2018-12-20 at 4:46 PM, Whiskered said:

And here is silly idea as top tier rewards, kit gun and zaw parts available only in Conclave. All stylesed after dax tech... or just in general some Dax Weapons.

Oh, dear. I desperately disagree on these ideas, and the reason why is that people are already very bitter towards Conclave. I've heard so many other people complain during last year's Tennobaum that they were somehow being forced into playing Conclave just because they wanted the cosmetics it offered during those events. The sheer red-hot hatred was staggering. Putting non-cosmetic items that players will be desperate to have might increase the number of people playing Conclave, but it will have the very opposite effect of making more people like it! They'll be out to kill at next year's Tennocon...!

I have two suggestions to improve Conclave. One, as other people have suggested, is to add a Conclave node to the star chart. It doesn't need to be big and shiny, just given the same treatment as the Dojo node. It could even be located close by, in the lower left corner. The second suggestion is the reason why I don't even think about touching Conclave. It's not the unbalanced nature of it, or the frustration of loss, or anything like that. It's that STUPID AUTOMATIC TIMER. Every time I think to myself, "well, let's give Conclave another go!", I instantly regret it as I'm thrust into a game with no other players for the full 10 minutes or risk a "mission quit". How about the timer only starts counting down once there are two or more players in the match? That way, I could load up Conclave and just wait for a challenger (or two, or three, or-) to arrive without having to jump around an empty map with nothing to look at.

Actually, I just thought of another preference of mine. Part of why Conclave feels kind of clunky to most people is that they're used to modded weapons and Warframes, so it's a much slower approach to combat. I suggest a permanent Conclave passive for all players that makes switching weapons 10-25% faster. Whatever is most balanced. I feel like Archwing could probably benefit from this as well.

[Aramil999]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)Dubufu said:

Some weapons take placement, good aim and timing to pull off, I understand that. I run bows all the time, so that applies. 

But I still think that any vet can have better results if they run a meta weapon. What's stopping them anyway? What's stopping them from being the Vectis with something like Mios? Nothing. Even vets use cheap tactics to insure they shutdown people doing the same thing

Yes, I an not telling you that vets don't use cheap tactics but im trying to say that cheap tactics are weak vs any decent hit scan weapons (like Braton) in hands of very good player. 

Say Mios/Zaw 2 shoting players, it is melee and it is very hard to land hits on airborn targets, very good players not only spend most of the match in air but when they see melee spamer they simply don't touch ground at all.

Same thing vs Ignis/Ignis Wraith/Arca Plasmor they are super easy to hit enemies and deal decent damage BUT they have lower dps than most good hit scan rifles/snipers/normal shotguns and if good players fights vs such AoE gun he will win by simply having better DPS.

Ability Kills are very VERY hard to do many times on skilled players since if they see ur using abilities thay will just keep distance and shoot you from range. But yeah you can kill such player 3 maybe 5 times in one match with say Oberon/Frost 4 or Nekros 1 + Opticor combo (this is not that easy to pull off btw. but if you can do it, very strong).

Some weapons are "unbalanced" and very strong compared to similar weapons but simply nothing wins ve skilled aim + Snipetron or other good hit scan weapon. (unless it is laggy as fk and you want to just slowly hit and win with ignis, wins every time in ultra laggy games XD )

But yes vets use such chees to mostly get others who use it, taste it heh, at least I did that few times. 

[(PSN)Dubufu]

2 hours ago, Aramil999 said:

Say Mios/Zaw 2 shoting players, it is melee and it is very hard to land hits on airborn targets, very good players not only spend most of the match in air but when they see melee spamer they simply don't touch ground at all.

This playstyle is easily countered with a heavy zaw arial attack or and dagger with the Heartseeker mod equipped. Heavy zaws can cut you out of the sky really quickly with such a large hitbox. And Daggers with Heartseeker can track opponents in mid air if you did not know.

The conclave dagger stance "Peircing fury" also has some serious forward momentum that makes it nearly impossible for an enemy to escape when being tracked in mid air. I would know, I USE this very method.

2 hours ago, Aramil999 said:

Same thing vs Ignis/Ignis Wraith/Arca Plasmor they are super easy to hit enemies and deal decent damage BUT they have lower dps than most good hit scan rifles/snipers/normal shotguns and if good players fights vs such AoE gun he will win by simply having better DPS. 

You would have a decent point in terms of statistical data, as yes, it's common sense that a weapon with higher dps will with destroy lower dps weapons in the right hands. But that is where movement and frames come into play. It all depends on who can close/further the distance to use those weapons effectively.

2 hours ago, Aramil999 said:

Ability Kills are very VERY hard to do many times on skilled players since if they see ur using abilities thay will just keep distance and shoot you from range. But yeah you can kill such player 3 maybe 5 times in one match with say Oberon/Frost 4 or Nekros 1 + Opticor combo (this is not that easy to pull off btw. but if you can do it, very strong).

I dunno if this is just me, or just the simple fact that nobody really plays conclave anymore. But it find it REALLY easy to land ability kills, and I'm not counting supers.

Some abilities are just super easy to get kills with, which is why everybody uses mag, loki or nezha. Because they have reliable abilities that can kill or assist in a kill regardless of player skill. Seriously, running a mag with Magnetize and a sniper is nearly inescapable. Same with Loki's decoy, if it does not kill with it's aimbot, it will certainly take a significant portion of health.

2 hours ago, Aramil999 said:

Some weapons are "unbalanced" and very strong compared to similar weapons but simply nothing wins ve skilled aim + Snipetron or other good hit scan weapon. (unless it is laggy as fk and you want to just slowly hit and win with ignis, wins every time in ultra laggy games XD )

Please don't put "unbalanced" in qoutes as if it is subjective. It just is. It is one of the main reasons why nobody plays conclave

And on PC you have a point, almost nothing beats good aim. On console, WAY different story, plenty of things beat "good aim", which is why console conclave is a Zaw fest. Sure a sniper is reliable if you can land the shot, but I guarantee you that nobody on console has godlike reflexes like that in order to land shots consistently on moving/unpredictable targets. This argument only applies to like...the top 2% percent who are likely running something like an opticor.

Edited December 23, 2018 by (PS4)Dubufu

[Whiskered]

17 hours ago, (PS4)GrandisSupernus said:

Oh, dear. I desperately disagree on these ideas, and the reason why is that people are already very bitter towards Conclave. I've heard so many other people complain during last year's Tennobaum that they were somehow being forced into playing Conclave just because they wanted the cosmetics it offered during those events. The sheer red-hot hatred was staggering. Putting non-cosmetic items that players will be desperate to have might increase the number of people playing Conclave, but it will have the very opposite effect of making more people like it! They'll be out to kill at next year's Tennocon...!
 

Trading is a thing, we already have to trade for dumb arch wing weapon parts.

[(XBOX)JjOoZsAeY]

There are many things that make conclave a bad experience for new or vet players. Many things need to be looked at. One of the most important changes i believe that warframe needs is a stamina bar. Movement and melee should not be infinite. After this mechanic perhaps weapons like daikyu and abilities that overperform should be looked at. Another possible change could be and overall speed adjustment to the movement of all warframes reducing movement. Just some possible ideas in my opinion. 

[(XBOX)JjOoZsAeY]

Conclave alerts and better rewards sounds like a fantastic idea. Alerts on the board with pve gear pvp. Speaking of rewards why was the kuva removed from the drop table in conclave? Just saying we need more people and better loot so more people equals more talk like mentioned above. 

[Aramil999]

22 hours ago, (PS4)Dubufu said:

This playstyle is easily countered with a heavy zaw arial attack or and dagger with the Heartseeker mod equipped. Heavy zaws can cut you out of the sky really quickly with such a large hitbox. And Daggers with Heartseeker can track opponents in mid air if you did not know.

The conclave dagger stance "Peircing fury" also has some serious forward momentum that makes it nearly impossible for an enemy to escape when being tracked in mid air. I would know, I USE this very method.

You would have a decent point in terms of statistical data, as yes, it's common sense that a weapon with higher dps will with destroy lower dps weapons in the right hands. But that is where movement and frames come into play. It all depends on who can close/further the distance to use those weapons effectively.

I dunno if this is just me, or just the simple fact that nobody really plays conclave anymore. But it find it REALLY easy to land ability kills, and I'm not counting supers.

Some abilities are just super easy to get kills with, which is why everybody uses mag, loki or nezha. Because they have reliable abilities that can kill or assist in a kill regardless of player skill. Seriously, running a mag with Magnetize and a sniper is nearly inescapable. Same with Loki's decoy, if it does not kill with it's aimbot, it will certainly take a significant portion of health.

Please don't put "unbalanced" in qoutes as if it is subjective. It just is. It is one of the main reasons why nobody plays conclave

And on PC you have a point, almost nothing beats good aim. On console, WAY different story, plenty of things beat "good aim", which is why console conclave is a Zaw fest. Sure a sniper is reliable if you can land the shot, but I guarantee you that nobody on console has godlike reflexes like that in order to land shots consistently on moving/unpredictable targets. This argument only applies to like...the top 2% percent who are likely running something like an opticor.

Yes, im talking about PC. However even then beating someone using arca plasmor/ignis wraith is very VERY hard. I can see the problem being even bigger on consoles where players run Zaw daggers and 2 shot people and staying all the time in air is much harder than on PC.

Balancing such weapons is hard because it is hard to compare "easy hit very low dps" to "hard to hit with, very high damage" (like ignis ve daikyu) how to balance that is very different depending on skill level of players. 

In match where all players are very unskilled/new Ignis/Arca Plasmor user will win for sure. But in match where all players are mad skilled veteran players (at least on PC) ignis/plasmor is very weak. Now how to balance that?

In my opinion it should be shifted so new players have better balance than veterans so Ignis/Plasmor should get nerfed and new players acctually don't die so easly vs such "noobish" weapons so they learn how to play with Braton etc. and don't have to build specific guns to be good in PVP, veterans don't use that anyways.

btw. Ability kills are hard to pull off on good players on PC. Even if you catch someone in frost 4 or something than it will be very small number of kills each match. Loki decoy is very good but good players simply change room so quickly that decoy can hit them only few times, not half hp. I can imagine that Conclave on PC and consoles is very different in this regard. Next big difference is that on PC melee means very little, compared to guns. Only new players die to melee. Sometimes you will score lucky melee hit, knock down or use Staticor/Nekros 1 to knockdown and melee kill, but it is uncommon.

Edited December 24, 2018 by Aramil999

[(PSN)Dubufu]

13 hours ago, Aramil999 said:

Yes, im talking about PC. However even then beating someone using arca plasmor/ignis wraith is very VERY hard. I can see the problem being even bigger on consoles where players run Zaw daggers and 2 shot people and staying all the time in air is much harder than on PC.

Balancing such weapons is hard because it is hard to compare "easy hit very low dps" to "hard to hit with, very high damage" (like ignis ve daikyu) how to balance that is very different depending on skill level of players. 

In match where all players are very unskilled/new Ignis/Arca Plasmor user will win for sure. But in match where all players are mad skilled veteran players (at least on PC) ignis/plasmor is very weak. Now how to balance that?

In my opinion it should be shifted so new players have better balance than veterans so Ignis/Plasmor should get nerfed and new players acctually don't die so easly vs such "noobish" weapons so they learn how to play with Braton etc. and don't have to build specific guns to be good in PVP, veterans don't use that anyways.

btw. Ability kills are hard to pull off on good players on PC. Even if you catch someone in frost 4 or something than it will be very small number of kills each match. Loki decoy is very good but good players simply change room so quickly that decoy can hit them only few times, not half hp. I can imagine that Conclave on PC and consoles is very different in this regard. Next big difference is that on PC melee means very little, compared to guns. Only new players die to melee. Sometimes you will score lucky melee hit, knock down or use Staticor/Nekros 1 to knockdown and melee kill, but it is uncommon.

Yeah uh....im talking about console. Its a much different experience dude

[Keirox]

This topic won't go far as long as everyone give their own ideas / perspective.

Ideas get lost and we don't know what we really need..

 

A big poll vote from Warframe staff  is needed to split all those ideas and give concrete result of what the community want.

[Bristoling]

I'll speak from a perspective of someone who's tried conclave last week for the first time. I started playing Warframe in August 2018, I'm mr 25 on the way to mr 26, over 120 pug hydro caps (half of which I carried the team of Umbras/Mags/Excals you know the score), played some Conclave matches and settled on 2.5:1 kill:death ratio. I'm not a pro but I'm also not a noob and I've been playing competitive games on a decent level in the past.

So, the main problem with the Conclave is just 1: its very different from the base game. Second problem is that it cannot be balanced with so many weapons.

New players don't understand how many abilities in PvE mode work just from ability desciptions, and even higher mr players sometimes don't know what particular abilities do on warframes they play on regular basis. Half the time you have to read the wiki to find out how abilities work. Now throw in completely new system of abilities, and you have no idea what's going on. Sometimes abilities don't work as they work in PvE. Weapon balance is bad.

- Take a Nidus as an example, one of my favourite frames. You expect his Larva to work like in PvE, since the description says as much, but from what I've seen so far players aren't pulled but only "tethered" and seem like they cannot leave the range of the larva, although on multiple occasions I've seen people bullet jump away from it and escape. With everyone bullet jumping everywhere, there is no point casting your Parasitic Link, because that moment where you can cast it, you can fire your semi-auto and deal some damage to the enemy instead. Not to mention, 20m range is just 1 bullet jump away and the link is broken, costing you 1 mutation stack. Then finally take his 4th ability, and its an area locking skill that doesn't work on anything that moves, and everyone, even noobs move in Conclave. So out of his entire kit, only his 1 is usable if you manage to get someone by surprise. If you do, you get some sweet stacks of immortality, but its impossible to hit anyone competent with it. If you don't get any stacks, you're in S#&$ because everyone else has shields, Iron Skin or Warding Halo.

- Now take Strun family as a weapon example. The normal Strun has lower damage but only slightly higher fire rate then Mk-1 Strun. And Strun Wraith has even less damage but a bit better fall-off and bigger magazine. For a classical "in your face" playstyle, Mk-1 Strun is better then the other 2 Struns.

- Take Boltor family: Boltor, Boltor Prime and Telos Boltor have stats so similar they might as well be the same weapon. 

- Take Bratons: Braton Prime is trash compared to Mk-1 Braton with the lack of Impact damage to deal quickly with enemy shields.

- Karak Wraith is worse then regular Karak.

The balance of weapons and frames is simply bad, yes I know nobody wants high mr players bringing superior weaponry and trashing newbies. But should a Prime weapon have same/slightly better stats, offering something minor like 10% dps increase, instead of an dps decrease? Balance of frames can be fixed, there isn't that many of them, however weapons...

 

The idea of using the full roster of weapons and balancing them all for the Conclave is silly and it clearly doesn't work since vast majority wouldn't touch the Conclave with a 10-feet pole. When I've opened the Conclave loadout and seen that weapons that are good in PvE are trash in PvP, and weapon upgrades (Prime/Vandal/Wraith etc) on numerous occasions are worse then Mk-1 versions, I was confused, and frustrated because all the knowledge I've acquired during my whole playtime with Warframe was useless in that moment. I was having nightmares following night of Seer being better then Pyrana Prime, because in my eyes that's entirely possible in the Conclave.

You want to make the Conclave fun? Then DE should do something similar to what they did in 1999.

Have a roster of 6-15 weapon sets, with set spawns on tilesets. Let's say every player spawns with a Lato and a Skana. Let's say that other weapons to pick up are: Braton/Furis, Torid/Pox, Supra/Cestra, Panthera/Spira, Tenora/Aksomati, Zarr/Kulstar, Drakgoon/Detron, Strun/Bronco, Boltor/Bolto, Phantasma/Atomos, Snipetron/Arca Scisco for example, with some corresponding melee weapons.

Player can only carry 3 weapons as per usual and when near a weapon spawn, you can choose which weapon you want to swap out. You got Braton/Kulstar/Melee equipped and want to change Kulstar to Cestra? Swap to Kulstar, go to the where Supra/Cestra/Melee spawns and press X on it. Enemies would also drop their weapons on death.

Instead of 400+ weapons and counting, there will be only around 30-60 weapons to balance out at most. Nothing wrong with making some weapons stronger and putting them in tiers, so that Tenora > Braton overall, but on short-medium range Supra > Tenora, and on short range Phantasma > Supra. Yes, it is almost as if with this kind of changes Conclave became like the old Unreal Tournament, but that would be a step in a better direction. Unreal was a successful arena shooter, Conclave is a ghost town. If leaving weapon sets on the map is too drastic from what people are used to, then keep the loadouts but restrict available weapons to these 30-60 selected ones, and allow players who don't own these weapons to still select and use them just in the Conclave.

 

Next thing, redo the rewards. Getting 300 Plastids for a 5-10 minute match is an insult. 

 

Last thing, reduce the speed of bullet jumping. It doesn't work from a PvP perspective - you can't reliably hit the enemy, enemy can't reliably hit you, and you end up bullet jumping around with nobody taking any damage and everyone getting fed up. Then suddenly, a 2 well aimed shots from Lex or other semi-auto will kill you on the spot. There is a reason most of PvP shooters are including cover mechanics and urban fighting, reducing player mobility and vision. If targetting and aiming is hard because the target is too mobile, then in order for players to kill each other their weapons have to have high dps. Big open areas with superhuman speed jumping around, small targets to hit and high damaging weapons is very hard to get into, unforgiving, and possibly very skill based at higher levels, but lower levels are just a chaotic S#&$ show.

 

 

Finally, there is another, different approach. Allow Warframe and weapon mods from PvE. Let people use all the weapons, all abilities, Rivens, etc. Scale player damage down hard so that you don't one shot Iron Skin Rhino with a single Mk1 Kunai, but rather take 2-3 Tigris Prime shots and survive. Bring crits back, let players use Arcanes, and leave people to it. In games like Diablo 2, everyone was playing PvE, yet dueling scene was thriving and you could always find games with people dueling, because people want to see how good their gear is compared to other players. PvP in looter games is about the size of your e-genitalia, not having fun and earning rewards - after all we play these games to fulfill our power fantasy. Let mister mr 26 one shot an mr 1 player as he's trying to take down his shields. Let people trash the non-potatoed crowd with 4-6 forma Amprex. Let people who worked long and hard getting and maxing out the mods and weapons the power they deserve and let them go into PvP. Let there be carnage and all these snobs who say "content drought" will forget about farming Toroids for a good few months.

In Diablo 2, people who were bored with PvE would go into PvP games to see how much the worth of their gear is compensating for their lack of skill, and skilled players would also duel to see if they can take down others while having worse gear. That's all I'm gonna say.

Edited January 1, 2019 by Bristoling

[mario410]

On 2019-01-01 at 8:20 AM, Bristoling said:

-snip-

I've been playing conclave on and off for almost a year now. Mostly off actually. I'm also neither a pro nor a noob, and since I'm pretty much done with pve content I'm currently focusing a little more on pvp.

While I would say that a few weapons are definitely overpowered and maybe should just be removed from pvp (we're about to celebrate 1 year of Ignis, aren't we), or at least be nerfed, I don't think that the rest of the pvp arsenal is that unbalanced. If I look f.e. at autos, some players use Mk1/Braton/Prime, other prefer Karak, or Gorgon, Stradavar, Tenora, Soma, Baza, Grakata etc., in many cases it's more of a personal preference and that's good. Maybe snipers are a little op, especially regular snipetron, but even then you need to land shots which requires good aiming skills. In the long term, however, since DE doesn't want to invest much resources in conclave anymore, reducing the roster of weapons and make it more simple isn't a bad idea actually. Maybe keep 1-2 per weapon type (auto, semi, burst...). Then they can slowly start adding more back when they feel they're ready to do it. Also as a UT99 fan I like your idea of picking up / dropping weapons. How about adding shield and armor pickups as well? It could be introduced as a simple game mode and see how players reacts to it.

I also don't understand the logic behind mk1 being better than base versions and prime ones. Imo, f.e. Mk1-Braton should be worse than Braton, which should be worse than prime, which should be pretty much on par with vandal, stat wise. It would just make more sense.

Speaking of abilities, those are probably the thing that needs the most massive rework. I don't understand how abilities that give you immortality, even if for a few seconds, are fair and acceptable. I'm referring to Rhino, Nezha, Nidus, Hydroid (this one...) etc. Also blind aoe mass nuking 4th abilities such as Mag's, Frost and Oberon in particular, but also Saryn's, Ember, Volt, Ash, Vauban etc are fine in pve but it's pretty clear to me that they're definitely not fine in pvp...From this point of view I'm glad there aren't good rewards in conclave yet, imagine if you could farm formas, potatoes, rivens or idk what in ffa, tdm etc...everyone would be a bunch of Rhinos using their iron skin trying to roast each other with Ignis. I'm very tempted to suggest a complete removal of abilities and leaving the frames just for fashion (keeping their health, shield, armor, mobility stats), but it wouldn't really be Warframe without space magic amirite? How about, for instance, iron skin just grants you a slight armor buff? Or maybe you can only use one or even two signature abilities per warframe, or remove passive energy regeneration. I feel like abilities in pvp should just be there for a little utility, like pvp weapon mods are for weapons, and not be a completely game breaking feature.

The movement system is one of those things that make Warframe in general so unique, but it also makes conclave different from your typical shooter. I must say that being able to move at such high speeds is the main reason why I like both pve and pvp, but I understand it being problematic from a new conclave player perspective. I think it's just a matter of becoming used to it, honestly. I feel like the problem has more to do with the matchmaking which forces you to face players with much better movement and aiming skills. And as of now, maybe that's a good thing because there are hardly players to play with, let alone players of your specific skill level (kinda jk here). DE needs to to give conclave another chance, it could be such a great addition to the game, they should fully commit in making it better, getting players to play it because it's fun in the first place.

I'm totally up for better rewards as well, but only after (or along with) some huge reworks of the gameplay.

[Bristoling]

1 hour ago, mario410 said:

[...]

First off, let me say I gone a bit too far with the idea of allowing PvE mods, arcanes etc. Let's forget about that part that I wrote before 😄

And yes majority of the weapons are feeling just like a reskin of other weapons (lets forget the balance for now), and they don't bring anything new to the table. We could throw away 80-90% of the weapons and still have a good variation of unique weapons in the roster. It would make balancing a lot easier, since there is only a limited number of weapons available, and also make getting into the Conclave a lot more welcoming to new or veteran PvE players. As it is now, you open your roster of 400 weapons and have no idea whatsoever, which ones are trash, which ones are average, and which ones are OP, or how much they were changed in their mechanics. 

In regards to movement, I understand why we all love the mobility that Warframe provides. However, what is equally important is the mobility of our enemies - they are mostly static in PvE environment. In case of PvP, too much mobility can be detrimental to the games success. Once you hit the amount of player mobility that aiming becomes problematic (for an average player, not a really good player, I'll get to that in a bit), the time of any skirmish on a map increases, and apart from becoming more of a twitch shooter, the fights start feeling slow since they take longer to conclude. The fix to that can be to make weapons more damaging to shorten the fights, but at the same time it creates the environment where mistakes are punished a lot more and good plays feel more like luck then skill. Other option is to give players CC abilities, but that has little to no counterplay, and counterplay is what makes skill based games fun.

Now, I should explain that by mobility I also mean map design - some maps with tighter corridors and lower ceilings do make for fantastic shooting galleries and fighting in them feels responsive and snappy. But a lot of the maps that I've played on are big both in horizontal but also vertical sense - the actual speed of your character movement feels slow in comparison to the tileset, but super fast when fighting the enemies. Map design scaling is equally important to player speed since it allows players to feel fast, while constricting movement enough to allow for more tactical gameplay and allow the use of cover/obstructions. Reworking the tilesets would contain the verticality of movement, slowing the game down without touching the movement speed itself, and that would be the best solution - but that requires a lot more development time then just changing the base player speed. Now I understand that PvP movement can grow on a player, and in time one could start to love the way Warframe PvP plays out, but at the same time, PvP should feel good from the very fist game you play. Slowing/constricting player movement would let DE reduce the dps of weapons overall, so the fights would feel more skill based instead of dice roll based - I know it isn't luck or anything like it, but it feels like whoever spots/shoots the enemy first, wins. 

Now someone could say that, for example UT99 or Quake 3, both of which are still considered the best in their series, have fast paced movement - while true, that movement is heavily limited in vertical plane due to either option the player has or the map design itself. The movement in the Conclave wouldn't be a problem if tilesets weren't so huge.

A massive rework of abilities would also be welcome. DE would need to figure out if they want the PvP to be more gun or ability centered - and making abilities weaker would also make the balance between frames less of an issue. No AoE ability should be able to one shot another player. Idea of having 1-3 signature abilities instead of 4 is good and would also make balance/fun aspect easier.

Edited January 2, 2019 by Bristoling

[Aramil999]

I strongly belive DE will give us some kind of PvP update together with Stalker Mode after they are done with New War and maybe Railjack.

For now I see no chance of any major Conclave rework.

Best that could happen is some minor fix, add full loadouts for new players, maybe, fix Red Outtline on enemies, NERF ignis lens flare blinding everyone....

[VenomousValentine]

We need better rewards and a matchmaking system based on a player's performance. A hidden rank like MMR in league of legends.