Revenant surprised me

[SneakyErvin]

11 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

You know who else has infinite scaling damage? Garuda. And she’s not limited to only having it be effective against 7 specifically marked enemies. And can do it in an AOE instead of a clunky dash ability.

And just because Mesmer skin can tank any damage doesn’t immediately make it the best tanking ability ever to grace the surface of the earth. It’s charges are still severely limited and regaining them through thrall Reaving is honestly an impractical waste of time.

 

Yes but Garuda lacks the outlast options in higher content. Just as Saryn scales infinitely she also suffers from incoming damage.

Mesmer Skin is the best tank option out there. It is far from as limited as people make it sound. It last minutes on end without trouble in the thickest of fights. You are also hung up on the most odd scenarios and usage of specific skills. Why the hell would you reave to regain charges when you can simply hit button #2 instead? You just overcomplicate the whole frame for no reason whatsoever. 

No wonder you think he's bad.

edit: Also, his 1+3 isnt the only scaling option he has. His #4 scales well into harder content due to the adaptive nature of the skill. Armored mobs become harder yes, but it still packs the punch as a corrosive damage dealer vs most mobs in higher content. Those that are left standing are only the real heavy units that you can easily wipe out with reave when needed. Versus corpus and infested #4 last even longer because their health just doesnt scale well enough compared to the output of danse until you are at silly high-high levels of content.

Edited February 10, 2019 by SneakyErvin

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

Yes but Garuda lacks the outlast options in higher content. Just as Saryn scales infinitely she also suffers from incoming damage.

Mesmer Skin is the best tank option out there. It is far from as limited as people make it sound. It last minutes on end without trouble in the thickest of fights. You are also hung up on the most odd scenarios and usage of specific skills. Why the hell would you reave to regain charges when you can simply hit button #2 instead? You just overcomplicate the whole frame for no reason whatsoever. 

No wonder you think he's bad.

That’s the balance of having actual quality dps. But both Saryn and Garuda have their own ways of keeping enemies from getting to them. Miasma staggers enemies and Garudas dread mirror completely negates damage from the direction your facing (except for explosions I believe, but that’s been an issue for several frames). They’re not perfect but it’s better than nothing.

Because recasting Mesmer skin makes you vulnerable for far too long. It’s hard to praise a tanking ability when it requires you to run away every minute to recast when you’ve got abilities like warding halo which gives you a window of safety after the ability depletes.

I don’t think he’s bad. I know he’s bad. 😉

[(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz]

10 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Yes but Garuda lacks the outlast options in higher content. Just as Saryn scales infinitely she also suffers from incoming damage.

Mesmer Skin is the best tank option out there. It is far from as limited as people make it sound. It last minutes on end without trouble in the thickest of fights. You are also hung up on the most odd scenarios and usage of specific skills. Why the hell would you reave to regain charges when you can simply hit button #2 instead? You just overcomplicate the whole frame for no reason whatsoever. 

No wonder you think he's bad.

edit: Also, his 1+3 isnt the only scaling option he has. His #4 scales well into harder content due to the adaptive nature of the skill. Armored mobs become harder yes, but it still packs the punch as a corrosive damage dealer vs most mobs in higher content. Those that are left standing are only the real heavy units that you can easily wipe out with reave when needed. Versus corpus and infested #4 last even longer because their health just doesnt scale well enough compared to the output of danse until you are at silly high-high levels of content.

Let's be realistic here.  There are better options out there than Mesmer Skin.  I know you guys love Revenant and that's completely cool, but come on.

[JackHargreav]

Il y a 2 heures, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 a dit :

When you start getting other frames he’s going to quickly become less appealing to use. People praise Reaves ability to 2 shot thralls but doing that is so slow and clunky youre better off just using your gun or melee weapon. Even Danse is a better choice because while it can’t do percent damage to only 7 enemies at a time it does do high damage in a decent range to EVERY enemy. Enthrall’s literally the worst ability to stack synergies on top of especially since in any mission with a squad they’re going to die faster than you can use them. Seriously who decided “They have functions while alive but part of their purpose is to die” was a good idea? Mesmer skin isn’t that great of a tanking ability. Yeah it has infinite scaling but the fact that the charges are so low and your usually surrounded by enemies means those charges will run out very quickly. On top of that there’s no reliable way to manage getting more stacks and recasting it makes you vulnerable. It was a promising concept due to the fact that Mesmer is just a ripoff of 1 of the Amesha Archwing abilities and it works great there. But in practice it falls flat.

Also they did nerf Danse Macabre. It used to only drain 12.5 energy/sec. now it drains 20. Which was complete overkill and I think the only reason DE did it was to force us to consider using his other abilites more.

And the biggest disappointment with Revenant. He’s not an Eidolon Frame. Yeah of all the things they could’ve done with that concept and stuff what did they decide to do? Base his abilities off of Vampire powers. It’s so far off brand that Steve had to step in and replace the AOE sleep ability his 4 was gonna be with Danse Macabre. 

Overall when it really comes down to it. Revenant isn’t that great of a frame. 

Eh.. I have almost every warframe and I find him pretty good. Not great definitely. He will never replace my Inaros or Chroma for example. Mainly I like to use him because I like his design and he's pretty powerful. This is something that Titania is missing for example. I'm in love with the design but she's just not that well rounded or at least I couldn't get used to her abilities.

Edited February 10, 2019 by JackHargreav

[JackHargreav]

il y a 13 minutes, (XB1)Thy Divinity a dit :

Let's be realistic here.  There are better options out there than Mesmer Skin.  I know you guys love Revenant and that's completely cool, but come on.

Agreed. I love this frame but Mesmer skin is not the best. At all. Dropships and Osprays will remove the charges pretty fast.

[ebrl]

17 minutes ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

Let's be realistic here.  There are better options out there than Mesmer Skin.  I know you guys love Revenant and that's completely cool, but come on.

Yeah I mean some of the hilarious pro-Revenant hyperbole makes it hard to counter GearsMatrix' insufferable anti-Revenant vitriol.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

12 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

Eh.. I have almost every warframe and I find him pretty good. Not great definitely. He will never replace my Inaros or Chroma for example. Mainly I like to use him because I like his design and he's pretty powerful. This is something that Titania is missing for example. I'm in love with the design but she's just not that well rounded or at least I couldn't get used to her abilities.

Eh Rev and Titania actually have the same problem. Neat design and idea. Poorly executed first 3 abilities. God tier DPS fourth ability.

[ebrl]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Eh Rev and Titania actually have the same problem. Neat design and idea. Poorly executed first 3 abilities. God tier DPS fourth ability.

If you have the balls to compare Titania's 1/2/3 clunkiness to anything Revenant, I'll start to doubt you are even attempting to be serious. And if you are serious, I'll start to doubt your mental capabilities in general, which is something I didn't want to do, but now I'm reasonably willing to.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 minute ago, ebrl said:

If you have the balls to compare Titania's 1/2/3 clunkiness to anything Revenant, I'll start to doubt you are even attempting to be serious. And if you are serious, I'll start to doubt your mental capabilities in general, which is something I didn't want to do, but now I'm reasonably willing to.

They’re both poorly designed in their own ways.

[JohnLemon123]

He feels (to me at least) like the very definition of an '' untapped potential'' frame. That is to say one that, with a couple of adjustments here and there, could easily go from average to amazing. 

Mesmer skin, if it had even the smallest hint of gating, could go from simply remaining pretty good to becoming the god-tier ability everyone here is making it out to be (which it currently isn't, as its just too brittle against sustained fire). 

If ''neutral'' reave worked like it's macabre version (aka instant casting with the cost reduced to 25), the ability would, again, go from niche and mediocre to absolutely fantastic. 

As for danse macabre, if the status chance was changed from "static" to "modular", the ability would be able to scale infinitely harder, rendering rev a far more consistent pick for dps. 

Enthrall and the passive are both insufferably terrible though, and are the parts of his kit that received the least changing, despite being those that needed it most. They're both under tuned and out of place, and the only genuinely unsalvageable parts of his ability pool. 

Edited February 10, 2019 by JohnLemon123

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

1 minute ago, JohnLemon123 said:

He feels (to me at least) like the very definition of an '' untapped potential'' frame.

Enthrall and the passive are both insufferably terrible though, and are the parts of his kit that received the least changing, despite being those that needed it most. They're both under tuned and out of place, and the only genuinely unsalvageable parts of his ability pool. 

*hugs* while it’s nice to see someone else shares my pain it is saddening to know that we must experience it.

And I don’t want to put in a shameless plug but I did post a rework idea for Revenant a few days ago that changed Enthrall to act a little like Saryns spores except it’s status procs adapt just like Danse and it requires players to actually shoot the enemy. Keeps the whole sentient Eidolon theme while not losing the affliction of the enemy that Enthrall tried to do.

[Rakosta_Kai]

7 hours ago, JackHargreav said:

Overall Revenant is nice and versatile frame. He's not a squad friendly one though. The 1st will become useless in a team since everyone is only concentrated on killing and no one will give a flying about your ability affecting those enemies. And the 4th one will probably just kill everything so your teammates can't kill anything or since the ability slows you down you will stay behind because you're too slow. So Revenant seems to be better for solo gameplay.

I should probably add that I'm kinda surprised that I don't see him being used all that much. Is he considered a bad frame?

He's plenty squad friendly but also very solo friendly you just have to adjust your expectations with him depending on the setting.

I am rather glad so many players have such a low opinion of him tbh...It means you won't see him played constantly.

[BDMblue]

Rev would be good if his 1 would keep going if the last thrall died. If they made those shards over the head of the last thrall shoot off and find some other victim. Keep his 1 going would be so much funnier to use.

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

But so far, Rev is deffinently in the top section of the frames, there simply is no place where he feels like a drawback if you bring him.

And there is no place where he excels either. It's fine if you enjoy him but don't pretend he's a top tier frame. He has way too many issues including a lack of scaling and no gating mechanic for Mesmer Skin. And do we need to explain why Enthrall is weak like Nyx's Mind Control?

[(PSN)Hiero_Glyph]

Double post

Edited February 10, 2019 by (PS4)Hiero_Glyph

[JackHargreav]

à l’instant, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph a dit :

And there is no place where he excels either. It's fine if you enjoy him but don't pretend he's a top tier frame. He has way too many issues including a lack of scaling and no gating mechanic for Mesmer Skin. And do we need to explain why Enthrall is weak like Nyx's Mind Control?

You kinda forget that everyone has different play styles I think. For you maybe those abilites are garbo but for me (and maybe for few other) they are completely fine and I consider them an "end game" material.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

lack of scaling and no gating mechanic for Mesmer Skin.

“But it can tank any damage ever!”

Good luck defending what you just said. 

Edited February 10, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

3 minutes ago, JackHargreav said:

You kinda forget that everyone has different play styles I think. For you maybe those abilites are garbo but for me (and maybe for few other) they are completely fine and I consider them an "end game" material.

And theres people who enjoy using Vauban and Wukong. That doesn’t make them great frames.

Edited February 10, 2019 by (XB1)GearsMatrix301

[Rakosta_Kai]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

And there is no place where he excels either. It's fine if you enjoy him but don't pretend he's a top tier frame. He has way too many issues including a lack of scaling and no gating mechanic for Mesmer Skin. And do we need to explain why Enthrall is weak like Nyx's Mind Control?

No one has to pretend that he's a top tier frame.

As long as the player is reaving enthralled enemies he remains scaleable.

Since thralls draw aggro as long as you are being wise about cycling thralls and reaving you maintain Mesmer skin.

As such, the only objective reason why a player can really say Revenant can't perform in top tier is that they aren't doing one of the above.

While that's a fairly simple set of processes, I do admit that it is more complicated than most of the room-wiping frames... So this might be the hang up for some players.

 

[JackHargreav]

il y a 1 minute, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 a dit :

And theres people who enjoy using Vauban and Wukong. That doesn’t make them great frames.

Yeah and? There is Mag and Octavia. Two frames I never got a grasp on. Yet they are amazing. Octavia can handle anything you throw at her yet I'm not using her cause I suck at playing her.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

4 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

No one has to pretend that he's a top tier frame.

 

Re read this entire thread.

Also. Managing ability upkeep through mind controlled enemies is just a horrible design choice.

[JohnLemon123]

21 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Managing ability upkeep through mind controlled enemies is just a horrible design choice.

Actually, the concept itself sounds pretty cool (in my honest opinion) , and could definitely work if executed properly. 

But this was not the frame to do it on, nor was it even remotely well applied. I still don't get why the thralls can be killed by allies now that they're removed from the enemy pool the moment they're converted. Hell, at this point, the warframe everyone thought revenant would make irrelevant (that frame being nyx) has a far better 1 than him, although that's still not saying much. 

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

That’s the balance of having actual quality dps. But both Saryn and Garuda have their own ways of keeping enemies from getting to them. Miasma staggers enemies and Garudas dread mirror completely negates damage from the direction your facing (except for explosions I believe, but that’s been an issue for several frames). They’re not perfect but it’s better than nothing.

Because recasting Mesmer skin makes you vulnerable for far too long. It’s hard to praise a tanking ability when it requires you to run away every minute to recast when you’ve got abilities like warding halo which gives you a window of safety after the ability depletes.

I don’t think he’s bad. I know he’s bad. 😉

Rev does have quality dps. By the time Garuda has stacked her needed debuffs things are already dead to Rev. There is a vast difference doing 300/tick with a bleed and doing 15-20k per tick with the appropriate damage type for the target (ancients being the exception). Damage that requires zero build up or planning, nor does it require massive amounts of ability strength. Saryn stagger works great up to a certain point, but when she cant kill the mobs within that time she suffers. Mobs are staggered for 3 seconds, after that you cant reapply the stagger until the viral dot runs out.

No it doesnt take long recasting mesmer skin, you simply do it when time allows, which is very often, even in thick survival missions far up in the levels.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hiero_Glyph said:

And there is no place where he excels either. It's fine if you enjoy him but don't pretend he's a top tier frame. He has way too many issues including a lack of scaling and no gating mechanic for Mesmer Skin. And do we need to explain why Enthrall is weak like Nyx's Mind Control?

He has a gating mechanic for mesmer skin though. It is called a passive stun on anything that hits him outside of a few mobs in OV. There is roughly a 6-8 second gate to each individual target depending how much diration or not you use. He also has infinite scaling with Reave and danse scales well far up into the levels due to its innate high damage and adaptive capabilities.

2 hours ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

Let's be realistic here.  There are better options out there than Mesmer Skin.  I know you guys love Revenant and that's completely cool, but come on.

There are few that are better, if any. None of the other tanking abilities scale as well as him. 

Edited February 10, 2019 by SneakyErvin

[JackHargreav]

il y a une heure, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 a dit :

Re read this entire thread.

Also. Managing ability upkeep through mind controlled enemies is just a horrible design choice.

Come up with any cons. In the end of the day I'm the one who's actually using him. As long as I can complete all missions with him He's going to be good in my opinion.

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Re read this entire thread.

Did that already and I spoke to what I wanted to specifically because I can't be bothered with noisome hyperbole today.

1 hour ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Also. Managing ability upkeep through mind controlled enemies is just a horrible design choice.

...Yours included.

Anyone that thinks scaling defense with reflect, 7 tanks, and a mobile cleave/refresh/heal/ status spreader WITH an I-frame is a bad design choice for a controller says more about themselves than they do the skill in question imo. 

Stick with Mesa buddy.