JackHargreav

Revenant surprised me

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23 minutes ago, Modeaus said:

What the hell does 'better' actually mean? To me Nova is better than every other frame because she's massively more mobile, she's fast, and I love how she plays. So Nova is obviously best frame right?   

I didn't play Rev until just this weekend. For some reason I slammed 5 forma on him and started using him. He's great for tough content. He tanks as well as Chroma used to (maybe better), has good soft CC, and can clear trash as fast as any 'press 4 to win' frame. He can be the squad hardbody but he lacks damage. He's a great solo frame and good for carrying a team through low & mid level content (star chart & sorties) but lacks the power to maintain a kill rate for something like ESO or long Kuva runs. ymmv with weapon choice.

He doesn't really fill a niche and you could do much the same job with Rhino, Chroma, or Inaros, pros & cons for each are pretty well known.

Rev is a frame you play as for fun. He makes things interesting. He is a good all rounder who isnt op at anything. Using his 2 with his 4 makes him a highly mobile killing machine! I just wish adaptation was built-in as his passive, that would make him be the sentent we need!

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33 minutes ago, Modeaus said:

What the hell does 'better' actually mean? To me Nova is better than every other frame because she's massively more mobile, she's fast, and I love how she plays. So Nova is obviously best frame right?   

I didn't play Rev until just this weekend. For some reason I slammed 5 forma on him and started using him. He's great for tough content. He tanks as well as Chroma used to (maybe better), has good soft CC, and can clear trash as fast as any 'press 4 to win' frame. He can be the squad hardbody but he lacks damage. He's a great solo frame and good for carrying a team through low & mid level content (star chart & sorties) but lacks the power to maintain a kill rate for something like ESO or long Kuva runs. ymmv with weapon choice.

He doesn't really fill a niche and you could do much the same job with Rhino, Chroma, or Inaros, pros & cons for each are pretty well known.

I think that is a fairly excellent summary.

He definitely doesn't do the amount of damage that P4TW frames do but he does excellent damage, imo, all the same (if he was P4TW I wouldn't play him tbh)...Just from a ton of different buckets.

  • Reflect
  • Thrall's attacks
  • energy pillars
  • Reave
  • DM

My only wish for Rev was that thrall deaths had a higher chance to drop energy and/or increased/double loot drops.

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“I'd mention Hydroid as well but unfortunately his looting augment keeps people from hating him.”

 

I personally find his loot ability to be quite boring. I’ve had better luck with a good squad of active killing Tenno who stick together in good spawn areas...

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46 minutes ago, Modeaus said:

What the hell does 'better' actually mean? To me Nova is better than every other frame because she's massively more mobile, she's fast, and I love how she plays. So Nova is obviously best frame right?

Glossing over the fact that Nova absolutely is one of the most powerful Warframes in the game, there are criteria that we can use. I personally have three criteria for evaluating Warframes: Does each ability perform well within its own role? Does each ability have its own distinct purpose? Do the abilities work together to create a whole that is greater than the sum of its parts? 

Vauban, for example, mostly meets the first criteria, but not the other two. His best abilities are very good at what they do, but they overlap and compete heavily as opposed to working together to create a greater whole.

Hydroid, on the other hand, would meet the second and third without really meeting the first. None of his abilities are really exceptional (or arguably even all that great) on their own, but they are very distinct in purpose and they combine very well. 

Harrow would meet all three. Each ability is useful on its own, and every individual purpose of each ability perfectly compliments something else within his kit. 

I'd put Revenant more within Vauban's category. Mesmer Skin and Danse Macabre are pretty good, but they don't really do anything for each other. He's got pretty decent healing and overshield generation, but you're not really going to use that when Mesmer Skin just blocks everything. His kit is perfectly playable, but doesn't really have much synergy within it beyond the forced interactions. There's just no natural synergy in his kit the way there is with Harrow or Saryn or even Khora. 

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14 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

Vauban, for example, mostly meets the first criteria, but not the other two. His best abilities are very good at what they do, but they overlap and compete heavily as opposed to working together to create a greater whole.

Given your stated criteria, Vauban wouldn't meet any of these.

15 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

Hydroid, on the other hand, would meet the second and third without really meeting the first. None of his abilities are really exceptional (or arguably even all that great) on their own, but they are very distinct in purpose and they combine very well. 

Hydroid doesn't have an ability that doesn't "perform well with it's own role" so please expand on your assertion.

  • 1. variably sized area cc via knockdown
  • 2. movement, knockdown, i-frame
  • 3. stealth, cc, dot
  • 4. cc, dot
18 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

Harrow would meet all three. Each ability is useful on its own, and every individual purpose of each ability perfectly compliments something else within his kit

As awesome as he is...Harrow actually only reliably meets your second criteria.

  • Each ability does not perform reliably within it's own role as two of them rely on Harrow doing the damage to enemies in their activation window.
  • Each ability is distinct from the others.
  • Harrow's 3 synergizes with nothing in his kit (not even counting the augment as it then, instead, competes) unless you want to count energy which makes it potentially redundant to other energy regen measures.
35 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

I'd put Revenant more within Vauban's category. Mesmer Skin and Danse Macabre are pretty good, but they don't really do anything for each other.

You should probably go to the Wikia and read up on Revenant as it's the only frame you mentioned that both obviously and reliably ticks all three of your criterion.

39 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

Mesmer Skin and Danse Macabre are pretty good, but they don't really do anything for each other.

  • Damage reflected by  Mesmer Skin also accumulates into Danse Macabre's energy beam damage pool. 
40 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

He's got pretty decent healing and overshield generation

If by decent you mean he can replenish/max both in one cast of Reave provided you aimed at Thralls.

..which reliably synergizes with Enthrall.

43 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

but you're not really going to use that when Mesmer Skin just blocks everything.

It reflects...which is another synergy in itself given that doing so removes casting cost for enthrall.

43 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

His kit is perfectly playable, but doesn't really have much synergy within it beyond the forced interactions. There's just no natural synergy in his kit the way there is with Harrow or Saryn or even Khora.

Actually, He's the only frame with synergies in all of his abilities among the frames you mention here.

As such, I am not entirely sure what you are implying aside from "he doesn't increase damage" which, imo, is irrelevant given the fact that we don't have a damage problem in this game.

 

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il y a 12 minutes, birdobash a dit :

His 4 already got hit by a nerf, from 12 energy per second to freaking 20

Hmm... Impressive but I usually use the 4th ability to fast kill enthralled enemies so for me It doesn't make a difference.

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Revenant is very good, but players prefer Warframes that explode the map on a button.

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1 hour ago, Peter said:

Revenant is very good, but players prefer Warframes that explode the map on a button.

Ironic because revenant is an explode the map on a button type frame, except he's shìttier at his job than the others because he has a lot of weird patchwork CC and tanking alongside it.

Edited by birdobash
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1 hour ago, birdobash said:

Ironic because revenant is an explode the map on a button type frame, except he's shìttier at his job than the others because he has a lot of weird patchwork CC and tanking alongside it.

His 4 may actually be my least used skill. I tend to forget its there. His 1 is where the real power lies. Grab some Bombards, Heavy Gunners, a Nox and watch as they decimate everything. He's like Nyx 2.0, this should be her mechanic. 2 is god mode. 3 is kill anything at any level instantly while healing. 4 is disco time while your minions fight!

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1 minute ago, Modeaus said:

His 4 may actually be my least used skill. I tend to forget its there. His 1 is where the real power lies. Grab some Bombards, Heavy Gunners, a Nox and watch as they decimate everything. He's like Nyx 2.0, this should be her mechanic. 2 is god mode. 3 is kill anything at any level instantly while healing. 4 is disco time while your minions fight!

I personally kinda disagree but I respect your opinion, because ik his abilities are useable, they just have really weird patchworked synergies between them.

Oh, cool trick I learned btw, idk if you know this but if you circle around a target with reave it will hit the target multiple times (like a revenant tornado). Basically if you thrall a heavy target and reave around it in a circle, spinning your mouse fast enough then it'll hit the target more than once, usually more than 3 times which is what you need to kill any thralled target. I don't personally use it myself too often because it's only single target and only becomes useful at very very high levels.

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6 hours ago, birdobash said:

Ironic because revenant is an explode the map on a button type frame, except he's shìttier at his job than the others because he has a lot of weird patchwork CC and tanking alongside it.

I'm talking about nukers like Saryn, Volt, Equinox... Revenant 4 can't through walls.

Actually 4 is my last used skill, even Gara can kill more.

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18 hours ago, Modeaus said:

He's a great solo frame and good for carrying a team through low & mid level content (star chart & sorties) but lacks the power to maintain a kill rate for something like ESO or long Kuva runs. ymmv with weapon choice.
 

He is deffinently not an ESO frame, but then again 90% of the roster arent. I do however not see his issues in long Kuva runs, danse covers enough ground to insta kill anything that peeks into a room while Rev is also able to effectively bodyblock the siphon thanks to mesmer skin. But I would still rather bring a Frost for Kuva thanks to his shield and option to remove 100% enemy armor.

I think for Kuva I'd prefer Nekros, Frost, Nezha and Rev. 

Nekros for ripping bodies apart for life support and health orbs, Frost for armor stripping, bubble and cc, Nezha for even more health orbs, CC and damage buff and Rev for an adaptable continous room clear, some CC and reliable tanking. Saryn or Volt could take the spot from Rev, but and this is a big but, their massive non LoS range would simply be counter productive to both Nezha and Nekros while also forcing people to go find life support. Just as Oberon could take one of the spots, but in doing so limiting Nekros or suffering massive energy drain due to shadows.

Edited by SneakyErvin
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5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I do however not see his issues in long Kuva runs

I'm talking solo. For sure he's good in a Kuva squad but solo his TTK drops off pretty quick which causes issues with the O2 drop rate. I've had fun with him upto an hour or so but he lacks solid room wide damage output and can't kill hard targets without spinning his 3 in place.

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18 hours ago, Modeaus said:

I'm talking solo. For sure he's good in a Kuva squad but solo his TTK drops off pretty quick which causes issues with the O2 drop rate. I've had fun with him upto an hour or so but he lacks solid room wide damage output and can't kill hard targets without spinning his 3 in place.

Yeah that I can see. I dislike solo Kuva survival on pretty much any frame besides Frost or Nekros.

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On 2019-02-10 at 10:35 PM, (XB1)Thy Divinity said:

Nova

Ivara

Limbo

Octavia

Saryn

Trinity

Inaros

Mesa

Rhino

Nidus

Gara

Ne Zha

Oberon 

Harrow

Volt

Equinox

Mag 

 

All frames off the top of my head better than Revenant.  You could make a case that he is better than Oberon and maybe Mag, but that's doubtful.  75% is pushing it considerably. 

Heh, no.

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Newbie here! I've said this before: I can solo Mot with Revenant because of how powerful Mesmer skin is. Those guys do 3x damage and even tear my basic Rhino apart.

I don't mean to sound like I'm claiming Mesmer Skin is perfect. It does not fare well against enemies with 100% accuracy and sustained attacks like PoE armed Grineer dropships! But yeah, newbie soloing Mot with Revenant...

And Reave really is clunky... Perhaps Archwing masters can use it best!

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