Warframe's First Paywall

[Mad5cout]

I guarantee that this is a proof of concept.  They are watching to see if people react.  The fact that no one is means they will start doing this crap with every drop and that the delay windows will get longer and longer with each iteration.  In a year, the paywall gap will be 1-3 months instead of a week or two.  They are testing this as a profit-making scheme.

I saw the same type of crap happen back when World of Warcraft released and the gaming community didn't boycott the game for monthly fees.  The claim for every MMO that released for an entire decade after that was that it was impossible to run the servers without monthly fees.  Now we see free to play MMOs everywhere.  It was a profit gimmick.  So is this.  And yall are just watching it go down like nothing is wrong.

[Ultimatesoup]

Il y a 2 heures, Mad5cout a dit :

I saw the same type of crap happen back when World of Warcraft released and the gaming community didn't boycott the game for monthly fees.  The claim for every MMO that released for an entire decade after that was that it was impossible to run the servers without monthly fees.  Now we see free to play MMOs everywhere.  It was a profit gimmick.  So is this.  And yall are just watching it go down like nothing is wrong.

This. I've said the exact same thing. People are laping this up without a single thought. This level of fanboyism is annoying ,especially so little time after the Moderation debacle and after DE's total disregard of it, not even an official statement or answer. Not like it is the first time DE ignores feedback.

 

Il y a 2 heures, Kontrollo a dit :

Look, I was willing to acknowledge that there's a bit of problem earlier because I don't like waiting this much, either.

But really? How is this different from having to wait on a Dojo research, for example? Others have mentioned Valkyr and Vauban.

Also, you're wrong in that you can't work towards it. Since it's a global event, you can make yourself some alt accounts, then go scan those data thingies. The rest of us thank you in advance.

First, events have been scripted for a long time now.

Second, it's different from a wait on a Dojo because the wait on a dojo is part of the progression curve. To get a dojo weapon, you farm ressources, contribute to the clan, start the research, than you get your blueprint to craft the weapon. You already know the requirements for the weapon so you can already farm them while it is researched.

Hildryn has been presented as a platinum-exclusive because we have no information about when we will be able to obtain it, and what are the requirements to obtain it. This is the first time payment has been presented as the main way to obtain something. 

Granted, in practice it is not so much different from dojo researches. Does that make it less wrong? No. It changes nothing to the fact that this is first time incentives to pay have been pushed this far. And given how players are bending over to take it, it will probably be pushed even further.

 

 

Edited March 10, 2019 by Ultimatesoup

[Kontrollo]

2 minutes ago, Ultimatesoup said:

... Second, it's different from a wait on a Dojo because the wait on a dojo is part of the progression curve. To get a dojo weapon, you farm ressources, contribute to the clan, start the research, than you get your blueprint to craft the weapon. You already know the requirements for the weapon so you can already farm them while it is researched. ...

Conveniently omitting the wait time of several days while waiting for the research to complete, aren't we? Meanwhile you don't pay any extra resources while waiting for people to scan the data pads. 🙄

 

5 minutes ago, Ultimatesoup said:

... Granted, in practice it is not so much different from dojo researches. Does that make it less wrong? No. ...

😄

I rest my case.

 

Honest question: Do you believe the drivel you write?

[Ultimatesoup]

il y a 2 minutes, Kontrollo a dit :

Conveniently omitting the wait time of several days while waiting for the research to complete, aren't we? Meanwhile you don't pay any extra resources while waiting for people to scan the data pads. 🙄

 

😄

I rest my case.

 

Honest question: Do you believe the drivel you write?

 

You're completely missing my point.

 

I'll make it simple : It is not because we've been f*cked in the past that it justifies being f*cked even harder now.

Edit : And I genuinely forgot to mention the 3-days wait time. That is why I said in the end that Hildryn is "not so much different from dojo researches".

Edited March 10, 2019 by Ultimatesoup

[Kontrollo]

1 minute ago, Ultimatesoup said:

You're completely missing my point.

 

I'll make it simple : It is not because we've been f*cked in the past that it justifies being f*cked even harder now.

A simple "yes" or "no" would have sufficed to answer that question.

 

But I'll explain it to you slowly: Thread title: "First Paywall". But there's precedent, and it's just us waiting. Maybe you need to look up the term?

We probably wait a few more days than we usually would, that's it. You can view the progress in your navigation. And no, I'm not much of a fan of it, either. But leave the hyperbole and fake indignation at the door, alright?

[_Vortus_]

On 2019-03-09 at 3:35 PM, Knowmad762 said:

If you've watched any of the devstreams lately, you know that the leaders at DE very often joke and mock other games for their use of pre-order bonuses, implying that Warframe is better than that. Then they release Hildryn, who is, for all intents and purposes, a pre-order bonus. Those who pay real money currency get early access to this frame, while it is impossible to acquire for others who prefer to earn it through gameplay. The irony is quite hilarious.

Sorry, not buying your argument.    If it was cash only, then it might have some traction.   But for those that cannot wait for the event to play out, platinum is an in game earn-able resource.   Through gameplay, not much irony in that imo.   No different than farming the parts and spending the needed resources to build an item.   Farm plat and get the items that way.   Heh, sometimes its faster. 

And if you in to much of a hurry or unwilling to earn plat in game (or just want to support it), then yeah, the option to buy plat with cash and then buy stuff is available.   It always has been. .    

[Ultimatesoup]

il y a 8 minutes, Kontrollo a dit :

A simple "yes" or "no" would have sufficed to answer that question.

 

But I'll explain it to you slowly: Thread title: "First Paywall". But there's precedent, and it's just us waiting. Maybe you need to look up the term?

We probably wait a few more days than we usually would, that's it. You can view the progress in your navigation. And no, I'm not much of a fan of it, either. But leave the hyperbole and fake indignation at the door, alright?

Can you start your progression toward Hildryn? You cannot. Hence, you cannot pass the wall. Hence, paywall. 

Temporary paywall, yes, but it is still a paywall. 

And I am trying to be critical here, so if you could talk without the pointless mockery, it would be better, for the sake of the discussion.

[Kontrollo]

1 minute ago, Ultimatesoup said:

Can you start your progression toward Hildryn? You cannot. Hence, you cannot pass the wall. Hence, paywall. 

Temporary paywall, yes, but it is still a paywall. 

And I am trying to be critical here, so if you could talk without the pointless mockery, it would be better, for the sake of the discussion.

There's no discussion here, because this isn't feedback if making up stuff is all you provide.

 

How about we spend our time on something productive instead? We could ask for e.g.:

• Count each data pad twice so it doesn't take forever to reach the point where we can progress further.
• Add some hints -- maybe randomly highlight one or two -- because I bet a lot of people have no idea that scanning these things is what we're supposed to do.
• Give the people who have already done the fractures a way to help speed things up.
• ...

[Sloan441]

On 2019-03-09 at 7:09 PM, Ultimatesoup said:

Saying stuff like "You just need to wait" or "Buy her or wait" should make you take a step back and realise that's just a fanboy mindset, devoid of any critical thinking.

 

Saying it isn't is just being argumentative and willfully ignoring the facts of how the game is monetized. Good free to play games are always going to balance time vs. money for their monetization model. 

No warframe is worth getting all lathered up over. There are some that I've wanted more than others, but as long as I put the effort in, I get them--100% of the time. Keep in mind this is a game; by definition it's a time sink. You either spend the time, or bypass the time investment by spending premium currency--which you can get without even spending a real dime if you put time in elsewhere. 

I think some need to take a step back from this and gain some perspective. 

[Mad5cout]

All you folks talking about craft times like it is the same thing as this are making a false equivalency.  In those cases, we could at least start farming the parts and materials immediately.  In this case, we have to wait a week to even get the parts and BP and THEN we ALSO have to wait for the craft time.  IT IS NOT THE SAME. Stop pretending it is.

[Mad5cout]

28 minutes ago, Sloan441 said:

Saying it isn't is just being argumentative and willfully ignoring the facts of how the game is monetized. Good free to play games are always going to balance time vs. money for their monetization model. 

No warframe is worth getting all lathered up over. There are some that I've wanted more than others, but as long as I put the effort in, I get them--100% of the time. Keep in mind this is a game; by definition it's a time sink. You either spend the time, or bypass the time investment by spending premium currency--which you can get without even spending a real dime if you put time in elsewhere. 

I think some need to take a step back from this and gain some perspective. 

This isn't about one warframe.  This is about how content, in general, has been released, how this is different, and how this release stands to affect all future content releases after this point.

[Sloan441]

21 minutes ago, Mad5cout said:

This isn't about one warframe.  This is about how content, in general, has been released, how this is different, and how this release stands to affect all future content releases after this point.

I don't accept your premise. You're creating a problem where none exists. 

[Knowmad762]

7 hours ago, _Vortus_ said:

Sorry, not buying your argument.    If it was cash only, then it might have some traction.   But for those that cannot wait for the event to play out, platinum is an in game earn-able resource.   Through gameplay, not much irony in that imo.   No different than farming the parts and spending the needed resources to build an item.   Farm plat and get the items that way.   Heh, sometimes its faster. 

And if you in to much of a hurry or unwilling to earn plat in game (or just want to support it), then yeah, the option to buy plat with cash and then buy stuff is available.   It always has been. .    

Whether platinum was bought (paid for with cash) or traded for (paid for with time and effort) is completely irrelevant. All plat came from real money at one point, and it still represents real money in either case.

And you are still completely missing the point: it always has been... there was an option A to buy Warframes immediately with real money currency, and there is an option B to earn it through gameplay somehow. Option B may be long or horrible or grindy, but it was always there. It has always been... a player choice between option A and option B. Right now, there is no option B for Hildryn at all. None. Cash currency or nothing. This is unprecedented in the game's history.

[XenMaster]

The only paywall is the space slots for warframe weapons companions sentinels etc.

[Pro3Display]

all these people that are completely missing the point

you cant farm hyldrin, it's impossible, boss it drops from is invulnerable, you cant kill it to get parts, boss doesnt die, parts don't drop

[_Vortus_]

57 minutes ago, Knowmad762 said:

Whether platinum was bought (paid for with cash) or traded for (paid for with time and effort) is completely irrelevant. All plat came from real money at one point, and it still represents real money in either case.

And you are still completely missing the point: it always has been... there was an option A to buy Warframes immediately with real money currency, and there is an option B to earn it through gameplay somehow. Option B may be long or horrible or grindy, but it was always there. It has always been... a player choice between option A and option B. Right now, there is no option B for Hildryn at all. None. Cash currency or nothing. This is unprecedented in the game's history.

Sorry but no.  If you were not the one to buy the platinum with cash, then it isn't a cash resource.  That is completely relevant.   Plat that is bought is a players choice.   Plat that is earned through gameplay is no different than any other resource or item earned in game.   The grind is the same.

Players who pay plat for it, regardless of how the plat was acquired have always and will always get the items sooner.   As they should.   Even if a player was very very lucky and got all the parts in the first hour of release, and didn't rush, he still has to wait for the frame to finish cooking in the lab.   And if he rushes, he is still an hour+ behind those that got it from the market at the start.   Sorry but if you don't get it from the market or primed access, you will always be behind.  

Unprecedented?   More like over-dramatized. 

 

[_Vortus_]

17 minutes ago, Pro3Display said:

all these people that are completely missing the point

you cant farm hyldrin, it's impossible, boss it drops from is invulnerable, you cant kill it to get parts, boss doesnt die, parts don't drop

You are unable to farm stuff to sell and get plat to pick it up from the market?   Farming is farming.

[Kontrollo]

7 hours ago, Mad5cout said:

All you folks talking about craft times like it is the same thing as this are making a false equivalency. In those cases, we could at least start farming the parts and materials immediately.

1 hour ago, Knowmad762 said:

Whether platinum was bought (paid for with cash) or traded for (paid for with time and effort) is completely irrelevant. All plat came from real money at one point, and it still represents real money in either case.

That's f*cking rich.

 

But hey I get it, because viewing things from your standpoint for a second makes me MAD, I tell you:

• Arcanes? Paywall! Because it isn't night in Cetus, I can do nothing to progress towards them.
• Vauban then? Paywall! Because it was RNG alerts, no way to progress. Vauban now? Paywall! Because I already did all Nightwave bounties.
• Vaulted Primes? No way to work towards those until the next unvaulting. Paywall!
• Fishing? Most fish are locked to day/night and cold/warm cycles. Paywall!
• Waiting for the right seller in trade chat or my Dojo? Paywall! Because the overpriced rip-off has already spammed his offer ten times.
• Threshcones? Paywall! _{Ah right no, you can't actually buy those.}

And as I told you already, you can work towards it. Create alt accounts and get going. Wait what? Are you still here?

 

[Pro3Display]

4 minutes ago, _Vortus_ said:

You are unable to farm stuff to sell and get plat to pick it up from the market?   Farming is farming.

okay, let me reiterate for dense ones:

usually you can either farm for parts directly or with platinum acquired in whatever the fkn way you want 

with hyldrin you cant farm for parts directly and can only get it with platinum that you acquired in whatever the fkn way you want 

it creates a precedent where you can only get a frame with indirect actions instead of direct grind

and that what troubles people who are expressing their concerns of a possibility of a p2w monetisation and pay gating

while i am certain this is simply a mistake on DE part with rolling out hyldrin before her boss fight is ready simply due to the fact that frame itself was ready to ship

it still is quite troublesome

[Knowmad762]

14 minutes ago, _Vortus_ said:

Players who pay plat for it, regardless of how the plat was acquired have always and will always get the items sooner.   As they should.   Even if a player was very very lucky and got all the parts in the first hour of release, and didn't rush, he still has to wait for the frame to finish cooking in the lab.   And if he rushes, he is still an hour+ behind those that got it from the market at the start.   Sorry but if you don't get it from the market or primed access, you will always be behind.  

And again, you are still completely missing the point. Yes, a player who earns a Warframe will always be behind a player that buys it: this is fine and does not matter at all. What matters is that when a Warframe is made available for purchase, players have always been able to make progress towards earning it. How fast or slow that progress is does not matter, the fact that progress is being made does matter. Hildyrn is the first frame in the game's long history that can be bought, but not earned in any way at all; hence, by definition, unprecedented.

[niutp]

1 hour ago, _Vortus_ said:

....If it was cash only, then it might have some traction.   But for those that cannot wait for the event to play out, platinum is an in game earn-able resource.   Through gameplay, not much irony in that imo.   No different than farming the parts and spending the needed resources to build an item.   Farm plat and get the items that way.   Heh, sometimes its faster. And if you in to much of a hurry or unwilling to earn plat in game (or just want to support it), then yeah, the option to buy plat with cash and then buy stuff is available.   It always has been. ...

Platinum isn't resource. You cannot farm it. There isn't possibly infinite of that by simply playing the game. It isn't free inside the game, someone bought it. Platinum is limited, dependent of people buying it with real world money.

Do you have any other resource that you can only earned by trading with other people or opening your wallet? There isn't an infinite platinum to get. You cannot sell things for platinum to ingame shops.

I guess everything should be plat only, since you can get it by trading, right? Why even other resources? Just plug warframe into your bank account. Grind your workplace to get warframes. Fight _your_ boss for warframe parts.

_{They are testing the water what they can get away with. I do not want this to turn into a preorder thing. It is getting a lot harder to convince new/free players, as everything getting to steer towards old players finished everything. "300 plat is nothing, i can earn 1k a day","you can finish weekly nightwaves in a day, add more content","git gud",and nightwave gets more benefit to those that do not need them(already have enough helmet and aura for years). I don't see how splitting a community to those that pay the bad prizes (that we are told not to, and already seems like a cashgrab) and those that like to play the game and earning free things inside that. Even if i had the vox standing for hildryn, still couldn't take part in reddit discussions, so the platinum rushing people are leading everything. Look how cool, too bad you cannot afford it.}

Edited March 11, 2019 by niutp

[_Vortus_]

8 hours ago, Knowmad762 said:

And again, you are still completely missing the point. Yes, a player who earns a Warframe will always be behind a player that buys it: this is fine and does not matter at all. What matters is that when a Warframe is made available for purchase, players have always been able to make progress towards earning it. How fast or slow that progress is does not matter, the fact that progress is being made does matter. Hildyrn is the first frame in the game's long history that can be bought, but not earned in any way at all; hence, by definition, unprecedented.

No, I hear what you are saying.  I disagree with it.  You are saying players cannot work towards it through specific in game missions.  I am saying players can work towards it by farming for plat.   We can argue ad nauseum about it, but I have a feeling we won't agree and will just have to leave it at that.   Happy hunting Tenno.

8 hours ago, niutp said:

Platinum isn't resource. You cannot farm it. There isn't possibly infinite of that by simply playing the game. It isn't free inside the game, someone bought it. Platinum is limited, dependent of people buying it with real world money.

Do you have any other resource that you can only earned by trading with other people or opening your wallet? There isn't an infinite platinum to get. You cannot sell things for platinum to ingame shops.

I guess everything should be plat only, since you can get it by trading, right? Why even other resources? Just plug warframe into your bank account. Grind your workplace to get warframes. Fight _your_ boss for warframe parts.

_{They are testing the water what they can get away with. I do not want this to turn into a preorder thing. It is getting a lot harder to convince new/free players, as everything getting to steer towards old players finished everything. "300 plat is nothing, i can earn 1k a day","you can finish weekly nightwaves in a day, add more content","git gud",and nightwave gets more benefit to those that do not need them(already have enough helmet and aura for years). I don't see how splitting a community to those that pay the bad prizes (that we are told not to, and already seems like a cashgrab) and those that like to play the game and earning free things inside that. Even if i had the vox standing for hildryn, still couldn't take part in reddit discussions, so the platinum rushing people are leading everything. Look how cool, too bad you cannot afford it.}

Sigh.  Ok, this will be the last time I mention this in this thread.  You started Warframe as a nub with what?  A bit of free plat.   Ok, not tradeable, but it was still spendable.  It was Free.  But, lets ignore that bit.  Farming.  Run for relics, use relics to run for primes, sell primes for plat.   Or trade primes for ducats, and sell Baro items for plat.  Or run for rare mods/parts outside of the void, sell for plat.   Not to mention the whole Riven trading market...   Pretty sure thats farming for plat, and not spending money to do it.   No different than going into a mission and farming for parts to a frame or whatever it is you are farming for.   Plat is indeed a resource, and if you personally didn't spend cash for the plat you are using, then sorry, but its just a farmed resource.

8 hours ago, Pro3Display said:

okay, let me reiterate for dense ones:

usually you can either farm for parts directly or with platinum acquired in whatever the fkn way you want 

with hyldrin you cant farm for parts directly and can only get it with platinum that you acquired in whatever the fkn way you want 

it creates a precedent where you can only get a frame with indirect actions instead of direct grind

and that what troubles people who are expressing their concerns of a possibility of a p2w monetisation and pay gating

while i am certain this is simply a mistake on DE part with rolling out hyldrin before her boss fight is ready simply due to the fact that frame itself was ready to ship

it still is quite troublesome

Well, it was civil till this point.  Going to agree to disagree.  Take off the tinfoil hat, watch less youtube.  Good luck and happy hunting Tenno. 

[Pro3Display]

3 hours ago, _Vortus_ said:

-snip-

purposefully ignoring the point of the discussion doesnt make your argument valid or in fact at all relevant

[(PSN)Onder6099]

Is this all about 6k to MR?

[Knowmad762]

44 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Is this all about 6k to MR?

This is all about fair monetization policies in the gaming industry, and the possible erosion of DE's normally exemplary business practices, but thank you for asking.