Discord, Chat, GOTL and more - updates & conclusions!

[Ikusias]

3 hours ago, Letter13 said:

Hi notlamprey,

If you are confused with or disagree with why a post was removed, you should contact a moderator per rule 6 of the forum's code of conduct. I've removed the link from your post because re-posting removed content can be viewed as circumventing the forum rules (and be considered a form of spam, which also violates the rules). 

Moreover, if a post was quoting or primarily responding to another post which violated the rules that was removed, the subsequent post(s) responding to a rule violating post will also be removed. This means that although a post may not be violating the rules itself, it still may be removed because it is quoting another post which does violate the rules, or quoting a post which is quoting a post which violates the rules, etc.

emphasis mine

No one finds that this part of forum moderation is questionable at best?

The previous thread about chat moderation was repeatedly vandalized by this policy in a way that left intact only an umproductive discussion between two posters arguing the "Nezha is a trap" meme/slur disatribe and bombed out all criticism, feedback and suggestions regarding the actual problems.

Just replace the incriminated post with a "removed due to violating guidelines xyz" and leave the following posts intact with only eventual quotes replaced the same way, much better for transparency and it avoids impromptu deliberate/accidental censure by removing selected posts to obliterate entire discussions.

So far DE is spectacularly failing in addressing community concerns about moderation.

If the only kind of feedback we receive in this threads is "moderators" slamming their guidelines in our face instead of actual DE staff answering for this mess, it's difficult to see any actual change instead of lip service.

I apologize if I sound harsh, but so far all DE "official" feedback has felt like empty PR.

[Letter13]

16 minutes ago, Ikusias said:

The previous thread about chat moderation was repeatedly vandalized by this policy in a way that left intact only an umproductive discussion between two posters arguing the "Nezha is a trap" meme/slur disatribe and bombed out all criticism, feedback and suggestions regarding the actual problems.

Just replace the incriminated post with a "removed due to violating guidelines xyz" and leave the following posts intact with only eventual quotes replaced the same way, much better for transparency and it avoids impromptu deliberate/accidental censure by removing selected posts to obliterate entire discussions.

We do do that (remove just the quote and add a message with regards to rule violating posts being removed), however there are circumstances where simply removing the quoted post does not suffice, such as when the entire content of a post is focusing specifically on responding to a post which violates the rules. Yes, there is collateral damage at times, but it is unfortunately unavoidable--if there is a discussion occurring whose premise is established upon rule breaking (that is, the post or thread starting message which begins the conversation violates the rules in a bad way), the post starting that discussion and the subsequent posts in said discussion get removed. Long story short, if you quote or reply to posts which are violating the rules, you are putting your own post at risk of removal; if you see someone violating the rules, do not respond or reply to them.

Moreover, we will not remove posts but allow others to see that a post from user X, Y or Z has been removed, in part to protect the moderated user's privacy. How users are moderated is a private matter between said user and forum moderators/community staff.

 

That said, this thread is for the discussion regarding discord, the in-game chat (and its moderation) and the closure of the Guides of the Lotus program. If you have feedback regarding forum moderation, you should provide it in a separate thread focused on forum feedback, or send the feedback in with a message to the DE Community Inbox. 

[Ikusias]

Regarding the Guides of the Lotus changes, I'd say I'm conflicted:

- on one hand, according to multiple sources, the program had multiple fallacies and the guides themselves lacked visibility - personally i've never met one in years of playing Warframe;

- on the other hand, they kind of made sense from a lore perspective and someting similar to Game Masters in the relay or actively partecipating from times to times as 5th rangers in missions would have been kind of cool;

Still, save few exceptions usually relegated to trading, WF community has always been more than helpful, I'm curious to see how this will reflect with the new implementation of the program

[SyBuhr]

On 2019-04-05 at 11:12 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Hi all!

This post is going to reiterate some old information, present some new information, and leave some discussion points for everyone. It's a big one, lots to cover. Sit tight!

Chat Moderation Reminders:
The majority of oversight and reporting goes through paid professionals as of December 2018. Any remaining volunteers are re-trained, re-signed agreements, and have new policies about behaviour. All behaviour has always been logged. The rules followed are DE’s, and no one else’s. Any past transgressions have been dealt with, we don’t blame people for reacting poorly to what information was publicly available. People's public behaviour on their personal spaces do not reflect DE's views as a company.

In this time, there have been organized efforts to falsify reports and clog support, these are examples among many support tickets that have the same paper trail:

1) User asks about kick via support ticket (support is always the place for this, but don't clog it).
2) We research the kick.
3) We find something like this:

<Snip> TL;DR We are keeping our Chat moderation and those performing chat moderation!

To be extremely clear: our in-game chat is a privilege, not a right. Anyone spamming ‘Nezha is a trap’ or other permutations of spam and then decree victimhood should not be surprised when we don't reverse suspensions. The majority of offenses are temporary in consequence and you can reflect on why you may have gotten kicked in the first place. We will be improving Kickbot’s responsiveness and informative nature if kicks occur, but we have no ETA on this right now.

Formal retiring of Guides of the Lotus program.
<Snip> TL;DR Opening it to the public!

Creation of a new verified Discord Server:
<Snip> TL;DR Making our OWN Discord Server!

Cheers, folks!

 

Everything about this is "Yikes".

No one complained about Chat Moderation (save for the whole Nezha thing). People complained about who was in the position of power. While I have no clue who is currently in a Chat Moderation position, this first point seems to miss the mark completely by conflating the idea that just because it works, the person doing it is qualified/suited for the position.

If that individual is not adhering to the Code of Conduct, they need to be replaced with others more qualified. Otherwise, this first point is pretty meaningless. 

Opening the GotL program? Well, unofficially, that's been a thing for a long time. The bigger problem stems from a lack of information given within the game, thus players relying on the Wikipedia pages or other clan-mates. Whenever someone asks for assistance on statistics, people don't bother giving a short version of it, they just say "Wiki". This is partly a problem due to the lack-luster Codex. Instead of Symbols for Damage resistances and weaknesses, it may be better just to give percentage values. Small things like this make a massive difference.

Kudos, you created your own Discord Server. Honestly, this should have been done a long time ago, but at least you all did it.