De, Look At Your Weapons. Breath Slowly, Reassign Mastery Rank Requirements.

[R3leaZ]

DE. You have a lot of weapons available now which is different from when I first started playing this game but I just wanted to say...

 

Evaluate your weapons in their current state. And reassign Mastery Rank requirements from scratch. People who have the weapons will be able to use them but people who don't will need the required Mastery Rank to build or buy them. With reassigning I mean. Just take off all their Mastery Rank restrictions and look at each weapon compared to the other weapon and give them the Mastery Restriction accordingly.

 

I'm saying this because there are a lot of weapons now which completely outperforms other weapons that are for the same Mastery or even less which is quite problematic. You need to reassign your Mastery Rank restrictions. I'm pretty sure people who play this game also to test it and give feedback would agree.

 

The tiering of your weapons currently are very messy and it's painful to watch at this whole "tiering" system in its current state.

 

PS: I'm also quite sure once you change the armor system that a lot of weapons would need to be rebalanced.

 

Off-topic: Aww... I slightly burned my hand while cooking noodles. Freaking...

 

Edited September 17, 2013 by R3leaZ

[Casardis]

+1

[gavdl13]

totally agree.. and maybe if they assign the weapons to a propper rank the nerfing trheads would stop. because if you have a really strong weapon is because you are high rank and you deserve it.

[Archistopheles]

Why don't we just get rid of the Mastery Rank requirement for weapons?

[Deaths.Reap3r]

4 replies including this one...

Already 22 rep.

Your doing good son.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Deaths.Reap3r

[Dasmir]

DE. You have a lot of weapons available now which is different from when I first started playing this game but I just wanted to say...

 

Evaluate your weapons in their current state. And reassign Mastery Rank requirements from scratch. People who have the weapons will be able to use them but people who don't will need the required Mastery Rank to build or buy them. With reassigning I mean. Just take off all their Mastery Rank restrictions and look at each weapon compared to the other weapon and give them the Mastery Restriction accordingly.

 

I'm saying this because there are a lot of weapons now which completely outperforms other weapons that are for the same Mastery or even less which is quite problematic. You need to reassign your Mastery Rank restrictions. I'm pretty sure people who play this game also to test it and give feedback would agree.

 

The tiering of your weapons currently are very messy and it's painful to watch at this whole "tiering" system in its current state.

 

PS: I'm also quite sure once you change the armor system that a lot of weapons would need to be rebalanced.

 

Off-topic: Aww... I slightly burned my hand while cooking noodles. Freaking...

 

De is working in tiering everything but pretty much i expect a buff to the old stuff.

[CY13ERPUNK]

+9999 OP

[-Nerf-Herder-]

totally agree.. and maybe if they assign the weapons to a propper rank the nerfing trheads would stop. because if you have a really strong weapon is because you are high rank and you deserve it.

LOL... No it will never stop. If you gave everyone 1,000 plat they'd still complain, but why that grand master get 1,000 plat the same as me and i'm not even ranked. It's so unfair, I should at least get 10,000.

 

The same goes for the weapons, if they run another event and you get another Strun wrath or snipertron, they'd complain if it were ranked locked. "I'm only a casual gamer, i can't spend hours playing, it's unfair, all weapons should be available to mastery rank 1 players".

 

Then if a weapon is rank unlocked they'd complain that's it's too op for people that have mods they don't have... It's a never ending cycle, you'll never fix it.

[Cestus]

Why don't we just get rid of the Mastery Rank requirement for weapons?

 

Because people want to feel something special inside when they get a certain weapon and they want other to feel the same joy as they have.

Edited September 17, 2013 by Cestus

[R3leaZ]

LOL... No it will never stop. If you gave everyone 1,000 plat they'd still complain, but why that grand master get 1,000 plat the same as me and i'm not even ranked. It's so unfair, I should at least get 10,000.

 

The same goes for the weapons, if they run another event and you get another Strun wrath or snipertron, they'd complain if it were ranked locked. "I'm only a casual gamer, i can't spend hours playing, it's unfair, all weapons should be available to mastery rank 1 players".

 

Then if a weapon is rank unlocked they'd complain that's it's too op for people that have mods they don't have... It's a never ending cycle, you'll never fix it.

 

That name... are you the one?

 

On-topic: That's sadly true but I guess reassigning Mastery Restrictions would calm the nerf threads by a bit.

Edited September 17, 2013 by R3leaZ

[Eidolon_Slayer]

They mentioned something about tiering the weapons already.

[-Nerf-Herder-]

That name... are you the one?

 

On-topic: That's sadly true but I guess reassigning Mastery Restrictions would calm the nerf threads by a bit.

One can only hope it would.... And yes the name change is my protest against all the nerf threads.

[gavdl13]

LOL... No it will never stop. If you gave everyone 1,000 plat they'd still complain, but why that grand master get 1,000 plat the same as me and i'm not even ranked. It's so unfair, I should at least get 10,000.

 

The same goes for the weapons, if they run another event and you get another Strun wrath or snipertron, they'd complain if it were ranked locked. "I'm only a casual gamer, i can't spend hours playing, it's unfair, all weapons should be available to mastery rank 1 players".

 

Then if a weapon is rank unlocked they'd complain that's it's too op for people that have mods they don't have... It's a never ending cycle, you'll never fix it.

ok maybe special events weapon can be mastery rank 0... but all other weapons should be lock behind mastery rank... its not unfair.. in my opinion at least...

[LazyKnight]

They need to use mastery rank more because of how people automatically assume that higher means a better weapon. The most rage people have are towards high mastery rank weapon that are worthless and low rank mastery weapons that are too good. Soma could be given a mastery rank of 7 cost 2x as much resource and the calls for it to be nerfed would evaporated to a trickle.

 

It wouldn't take more than half an hour to make a list of the better weapons give them a mastery requirement and then have all weaker weapons unlocked. People want the expensive weapons to be good and mastery ranks implies a sense of achievement in finally getting a weapons as a reward for time invested. 

 

People just want prime weapons for their skins and they should not be mastery locked and since most of the prime stuff is trash anyway, it is kind of a moot issue.

Edited September 18, 2013 by LazyKnight

[Guest]

shouldn't be too difficult given the skills of our game's creators

 

i hope

[lautalocos]

well, i want to see the armor changes. if armor is nowhere as effective after the update, weapons like the boltor and bolto will be way more useless. first armor 2.0, then mastery locked content

[Flackenstien]

This.

It will prevent uneeded nerfs, and let weapons do alot more as they require more hours put into the game.

[Egioh]

-1

 

Reasons:

 

1-Its a cheap way out of balancing needs, solves the issue by saying "yeah, most of the weapons we spent time and resources developing are useless to a rank 7, but thats a design choice". Vertical progression is fine in a pve game, but don't turn warframe into wow, where epics are only needed to farm the next tier of items, and then threw away, in a never ending circle (or hamster wheel).

 

2-Everytime you level up and unlock "better weapons" all the older ones go become useless, and all the time wasted potatoing, formaing, leveling is thrown away. "B-b-but use the weapons you enjoy using!"  No, 90% of people use the weapon they enjoy most FROM the pool of the most powerful toys they can access - warframe is based on progression, people are compelled to think in that way by the game itself.

 

3-Most people buy plat and packs at the start of their tenno career, maybe after reading the forums/wiki, to get themselves good weapons/frame that will serve for long, items that are usually out of their crafting possibilities for  long time due to mat/credit/bp restrictions (not having the map unlocked-> no mats/bp   not being able to run void-> no credits).  If people knew the stuff they can buy at low ranks will quickly become useless in a few days/weeks,  how many will happily throw their cash anyway?

 

4-Warframe is already too easy for vets, and very hard for beginners. This will only serve to increase the disparity. I don't wanna tell my friends who just started "yeah you'll have to farm 100+ hours to get the good stuff". It's higly demotivating, slows down progression and increase the time and farm needed before i can invite my friends to endgame content

 

5-Research weapons already exist as long term goal, they are shinies very different from everything else. They exist because they give a meaning to dojo building / joining clans. Applying that principle to everything else is unneeded.

 

6-Every time DE introduces a new weapon, they'd have to choose in which "tier" it will fit. Is it a rank 1, acessible to everyone? maybe a r3? and if x>y>k>z   why should someone nearing r8 like me care at all about lower rank weapons?  Content is splitted, and to many of us, obsolete and useless before even getting released.  Getting excited because DE announced 10 new weapons? Too bad, none of them are high tier, no reason to build them or even care about them.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Egioh

[R3leaZ]

-1

 

Reasons:

 

1-Its a cheap way out of balancing needs, solves the issue by saying "yeah, most of the weapons we spent time and resources developing are useless to a rank 7, but thats a design choice". Vertical progression is fine in a pve game, but don't turn warframe into wow, where epics are only needed to farm the next tier of items, and then threw away, in a never ending circle (or hamster wheel).

 

2-Everytime you level up and unlock "better weapons" all the older ones go become useless, and all the time wasted potatoing, formaing, leveling is thrown away. "B-b-but use the weapons you enjoy using!"  No, 90% of people use the weapon they enjoy most FROM the pool of the most powerful toys they can access - warframe is based on progression, people are compelled to think in that way by the game itself.

 

3-Most people buy plat and packs at the start of their tenno career, maybe after reading the forums/wiki, to get themselves good weapons/frame that will serve for long, items that are usually out of their crafting possibilities for  long time due to mat/credit/bp restrictions (not having the map unlocked-> no mats/bp   not being able to run void-> no credits).  If people knew the stuff they can buy at low ranks will quickly become useless in a few days/weeks,  how many will happily throw their cash anyway?

 

4-Warframe is already too easy for vets, and very hard for beginners. This will only serve to increase the disparity. I don't wanna tell my friends who just started "yeah you'll have to farm 100+ hours to get the good stuff". It's higly demotivating, slows down progression and increase the time and farm needed before i can invite my friends to endgame content

 

5-Research weapons already exist as long term goal, they are shinies very different from everything else. They exist because they give a meaning to dojo building / joining clans. Applying that principle to everything else is unneeded.

 

6-Every time DE introduces a new weapon, they'd have to choose in which "tier" it will fit. Is it a rank 1, acessible to everyone? maybe a r3? and if x>y>k>z   why should someone nearing r8 like me care at all about lower rank weapons?  Content is splitted, and to many of us, obsolete and useless before even getting released.  Getting excited because DE announced 10 new weapons? Too bad, none of them are high tier, no reason to build them or even care about them.

 

I see your point. Though I will have to say. I can still be very effective using a Braton Vandal which in its current state is weaker than the normal Braton. Shooters are often more focused on skill and require you to become better eventually and the grow levelwise in this game will eventually be promoted with more weapons being available.

 

Also. DE already stated they wanted to go for the tiering route but in its current state it isn't done properly. And for newbies having a rough time in this game. The armor changes might fix that issue.

Edited September 18, 2013 by R3leaZ

[Phoenix86]

totally agree, altought some low ranked ppl could cry... :p

[-CM-Tiffany]

Yes.

Yes.

 

...Yes(Mmmhhhh)~

[R3leaZ]

Yes.

Yes.

 

...Yes(Mmmhhhh)~

 

o_o

[Lumireaver]

totally agree.. and maybe if they assign the weapons to a propper rank the nerfing trheads would stop. because if you have a really strong weapon is because you are high rank and you deserve it.

 

This is not how it works. (As a matter of fact, it's a good demonstration of why it doesn't work.)

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/108731-a-vision-of-a-balanced-warframe/'>Lengthy discussion on the subject can be found here.

 

-1

 

Reasons:

 

1-Its a cheap way out of balancing needs, solves the issue by saying "yeah, most of the weapons we spent time and resources developing are useless to a rank 7, but thats a design choice". Vertical progression is fine in a pve game, but don't turn warframe into wow, where epics are only needed to farm the next tier of items, and then threw away, in a never ending circle (or hamster wheel).

 

2-Everytime you level up and unlock "better weapons" all the older ones go become useless, and all the time wasted potatoing, formaing, leveling is thrown away. "B-b-but use the weapons you enjoy using!"  No, 90% of people use the weapon they enjoy most FROM the pool of the most powerful toys they can access - warframe is based on progression, people are compelled to think in that way by the game itself.

 

3-Most people buy plat and packs at the start of their tenno career, maybe after reading the forums/wiki, to get themselves good weapons/frame that will serve for long, items that are usually out of their crafting possibilities for  long time due to mat/credit/bp restrictions (not having the map unlocked-> no mats/bp   not being able to run void-> no credits).  If people knew the stuff they can buy at low ranks will quickly become useless in a few days/weeks,  how many will happily throw their cash anyway?

 

4-Warframe is already too easy for vets, and very hard for beginners. This will only serve to increase the disparity. I don't wanna tell my friends who just started "yeah you'll have to farm 100+ hours to get the good stuff". It's higly demotivating, slows down progression and increase the time and farm needed before i can invite my friends to endgame content

 

5-Research weapons already exist as long term goal, they are shinies very different from everything else. They exist because they give a meaning to dojo building / joining clans. Applying that principle to everything else is unneeded.

 

6-Every time DE introduces a new weapon, they'd have to choose in which "tier" it will fit. Is it a rank 1, acessible to everyone? maybe a r3? and if x>y>k>z   why should someone nearing r8 like me care at all about lower rank weapons?  Content is splitted, and to many of us, obsolete and useless before even getting released.  Getting excited because DE announced 10 new weapons? Too bad, none of them are high tier, no reason to build them or even care about them.

 

Smart man.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Lumireaver

[G3m1n1]

Why don't we just get rid of the Mastery Rank requirement for weapons?

 

I think this is a far better idea. I see no mastery rank requirements on warframes, why are they necessary on weapons?

[ZephRG]

As someone who is currently on the verge of Rank 8, I'm personally sick of people suggesting DE use mastery rank as a crutch to excuse kneecapping their own weapon variety through obsolescence and power creep. My understanding of Mastery Rank was that it should allow access to more ADVANCED weapons, but not necessarily flat-out BETTER ones, so on the lower end you have straightforward bullet hoses like the Braton and Grakata, while on the higher end you have more esoteric weapons that offer better stats on paper but might possess significant downsides (Flux Rifle's limited range, Supra's slow bullet speed, Lanka and Ogris requiring a full charge to fire, Torid doing most of its damage from stationary gas clouds, Acrid's travel time and backloaded DPS (although this arguably doesn't properly offset the Acrid's upsides), etc.). In other words, the reward for gaining mastery ranks should be access to more mechanically advanced weapons allowing you to perform increasingly specialized roles as you learn more of the game's mechanics and experiment with different weapon/warframe loadouts.

 

Aside from all that, vertical progression already exists independent of the ranking system. It's called feeding an ungodly amount of fusion cores to Vitality, Redirection, Steel Fiber, Equilibrium, Hornet Strike and Serration, some of these more than once depending on a Sentinel's loadout. Maxing those out might not feel quite as satisfying as equipping the overpowered weapon of the week and trivializing an already easy game, but Serration works just as well on the Braton as it does on the Supra, so this vertical progression doesn't make all the weapons you've used getting it into nothing more than stepping stones.

 

In regards to, say, the Soma, the only mechanic you have to get used to is the short spinup time on it. Access to rifle crit mods aside, this weapon is arguably even easier to use than the Gorgon due to having no accuracy issues to account for. The combination of it having a higher damage potential than every other primary and offering no significant downsides to offset this advantage is why DE shouldn't just slap a higher mastery rank on it and call it a day.

 

The other thing I'm sick of is people acting like nerfs are bad. Poorly handled nerfs like what Ember got can suck, but even then they can eventually be buffed back to a useable state (like with Rhino who crossed the spectrum from amazing to useless to pretty good) and it's better to fix something that's broken than it is to break everything else and call it fixed. Sometimes nerfs need to happen, and sometimes buffs need to happen. It's called "balancing" for a reason.