Question about stat priority in beam weapon build..

[WebbyGaming]

Question about build for Ignis Wraith...

I am still learning how damage works in Warframe and what stats are more valuable than others in specific builds. I have a Riven for Ignis Wraith, but since the disposition is only 1/5 the Riven is not very OP. Nevertheless, it may (or may not) be worth using.

Riven Mod is: 63.5% Critical Chance, 50.7% Critical Chance, 41.2% Status Duration

Spoiler

Basically, the way I see it is that there are three options and I do not know which option is best as I do not yet fully understand the way damage works in terms of Crit Damage vs Crit Chance vs RoF on a beam weapon. The only mods I see as potentials to remove to fit the Riven are either Vital Sense (+120% Critical Damage) or Vile Acceleration (+90% Fire rate & -15% Damage)...

or, of course, leave both on and not equip the Riven.

The differences are:

Config A: 42.5% Critical Chance, 5.5x Critical Multiplier, 15.20 Fire Rate   (No Riven)

Spoiler

Config B: 53.3% Critical Chance, 3.8x Critical Multiplier, 15.20 Fire Rate   (Removed Vital Sense for Riven to gain 9.8% Crit Chance but lose 1.7x Crit Multiplier)

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Config C; 53.3% Critical chance, 6.8x Critical Multiplier, 8.00 Fire Rate      (Removed Vile Acceleration for Riven to gain 9.8% Crit rate, 1.3x Crit Multiplier, but lose Fire rate)

Spoiler

So, the question I have is what is more valuable, Critical chance, Critical Multiplier, or Fire Rate in this situation?

I appreciate any feedback and help! 🙂

 

Edit to add; From what I have seen so far, Fire rate is a HUGE boost to DPS, so perhaps Config C is not a viable option?

Edited July 30, 2019 by WebbyGaming
Extra comment on Fire rate

[dwqrf]

I'd say :

- Fire rate is not mandatory (imo). It's great, it makes more status/second but that's useless considering the actual statuses. Yes, overall it's an improvement of DPS, but doesnt make the single tick do more damage, and make your reload more. I think it's a good stats, but a few warframe spells and arcanes can improve fire rate. I guess some other mods might find better use of the slot.

- Do you know [Hunter Munitions] ? (I'd strongly suggest using it for a Ignis Viral build)

- Do you know [Vigilant Armaments] ? (I do think having 2x %damage and 2x %multishot is really important, with 2x %elem)

- Any 90% elementary damage mods would increase your DPS, instead of 60%/60% (and primed cryo round goes up to +165%)

 

And while heat has indeed a duration, reapplying the buff does only refresh the dot, not make it stack. Meanwhile, corrosive status does stack but doesn't have a duration.

 

In doubt, you can calculate the DPS of the different mods setup using Warframe Builder (third party website) which is really good for this king of questionning (but won't factor [Hunter Munitions])

 

Edited July 30, 2019 by dwqrf

[Xzorn]

Config A:   X * ( 1 + (1 - 5.5) * 0.425) * 15.20 = 44.27X
Config B:  X * ( 1 + (1 - 3.8) * 0.533) * 15.20 = 37.88X
Config C  X * ( 1 + (1 - 6.8) * 0.533) * 8.0 = 32.7X

This is not counting the -15% base damage for Vile Acceleration which with Serration + Heavy Cal would be around -5% total.

It's incredibly hard to get an Ignis Riven that's worth using and pretty much impossible if you own Primed Shred like myself.

There are a few minor changes like head-crit multipliers and DoT ticks but there's enough difference it wouldn't be needed.

[NinjaZeku]

I guess I'd remove Heavy Caliber if anything, removing Crit Mods in favor of a (weak) Crit Riven is a bit silly,
and the 90% DPS as well as Status boost from Vile Acceleration similarly is too good to give up IMO.

(Ignis gets 60 Ammo per Rifle pickup and uses 1 Ammo every 2 "shots" so it'll hardly run into Ammo issues.)

But, you could plug all those builds into Warframe Builder and see what gives you the best DPS ultimately.

Personally, I gave up on my once-awesome Ignis Riven and just ran Heavy Caliber instead.

[pebblepossum]

I'd have posted the screenshot of your full current build in case there are other mods that aren't as vital as you think they are.

[NinjaZeku]

4 hours ago, pebblepossum said:

I'd have posted the screenshot of your full current build

Click the second spoiler.

[(NSW)Lunavay]

16 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Config A:   X * ( 1 + (1 - 5.5) * 0.425) * 15.20 = 44.27X
Config B:  X * ( 1 + (1 - 3.8) * 0.533) * 15.20 = 37.88X
Config C  X * ( 1 + (1 - 6.8) * 0.533) * 8.0 = 32.7X

This is not counting the -15% base damage for Vile Acceleration which with Serration + Heavy Cal would be around -5% total.

It's incredibly hard to get an Ignis Riven that's worth using and pretty much impossible if you own Primed Shred like myself.

There are a few minor changes like head-crit multipliers and DoT ticks but there's enough difference it wouldn't be needed.

This. 

Even without Prime Shred, anything rolled under 1/5 of Riven disposition is gonna be tough to find a place in maximizing DPS here. That doesn't mean that Riven is useless though simply because disposition changes. 

[pebblepossum]

On 2019-07-31 at 9:04 AM, NinjaZeku said:

Click the second spoiler.

Ah, whoops.

Yeah, OP, there's nothing in that build worth taking out for that riven. With as low a disposition as the Ignis has, all your rolls have to be top-tier for it to be worthwhile, and Status Duration unfortunately just kills it.

[WellIHopeThisOneWorks]

What I came up with was a 100% status build using all the Status mods (High Voltage, Malignant Force, Rime Rounds, Thermite Rounds) Along with Hammer Shot. Then Serration and Heavy Caliber. Then the last mod is up to you, either enhance your chance to crit with Point Strike, Hit more Enemies with Primed Shred (though the innate 2 punch through is enough for me most of the time but up to you), Or what I personally use, Is combustion Beam. It doesn't downright increase your damage, but it makes it a HEll of a clearer of trash mobs (Id go with one of the other two for higher missions though). 

But as for the Riven itself, yeahhh, that riven sadly doesn't synergize with the weapon one bit, especially with it's low Disposition. For it to even be considering in the build, it would need to give primarily base damage, Status chance, or the crit would have to out perform a point strike. with these states, especially the useless status duration (As your going to constantly be reapplying status from it anyway so what does the duration matter?) is what kills the riven, and its going to need rerolls if your going to want to us it/have a reason to use it.

[NinjaZeku]

32 minutes ago, WellIHopeThisOneWorks said:

100% status build

Just sayin', on a rapid-fire weapon that doesn't use pellet mechanics or anything like that, reaching 100% is hardly a necessity.

Beam weapons in general are Status monsters, my Gas Ignis has a mere ~46% Status and I still get a silly amount of DOTs all over.

[WellIHopeThisOneWorks]

2 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

Just sayin', on a rapid-fire weapon that doesn't use pellet mechanics or anything like that, reaching 100% is hardly a necessity.

Beam weapons in general are Status monsters, my Gas Ignis has a mere ~46% Status and I still get a silly amount of DOTs all over.

That moment when you've been running combustion beam on your ignis and just now realized it was a beam weapons so status procs work differently as status build up not actually a percent chance to proc

My life has been a lie and I need to reevaluate my decisions within it... goes to rock back and forth in a corner

You are completely correct though, I just had the dumb thought of always thinking of ignis as a rifle, when its...clearly..considered a beam weapon...continues to be curled up in corner

[NinjaZeku]

2 hours ago, WellIHopeThisOneWorks said:

it was a beam weapons so status procs work differently as status build up not actually a percent chance to proc

Hm? Beam weapons use the same proc-chance-per-shot mechanics that other (non-pellet) weapons do,
the only difference is that Multishot adds raw damage rather than (a chance for) additional shots.

They used to have that weird Status-per-second mechanic, but that's a thing long discarded by now (and good riddance).

[WellIHopeThisOneWorks]

32 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

Hm? Beam weapons use the same proc-chance-per-shot mechanics that other (non-pellet) weapons do,
the only difference is that Multishot adds raw damage rather than (a chance for) additional shots.

They used to have that weird Status-per-second mechanic, but that's a thing long discarded by now (and good riddance).

Owwww they removed that? AHAhaAhhehe *coughs* awesome! Shows my age/how much ive been paying attention that I didn't know that xD but that's good to know! That and them making mulitishot a just flat damage increase...well I have a lot of things to try out when I get home. 

Thanks for the info! I learned something today! It's a good day when that happens! XD