Make the star chart part of endgame content!

[FrostDragoon]

The idea is pretty basic, honestly, but I think it would open up a lot of territory within the game's design space.

Create variants of each node on the chart that unlocks when you complete your first Arbitration rotation C, and add 100 to the base enemy level of said nodes. An "Elite" version, if you will.

Before I go into more detail about what I perceive the merits of such a change to be, take a minute or two to imagine what this would look like and why that requirement would be appropriate. Then think about all the positive implications it carries for expanding reward pools.

It's okay. Take your time. Enjoy this picture of a kitty while you think about that.

 

 

Done? Okay!

The best thing I can see as a result of this is that it creates a space where vaulted items can be placed so we can get rid of the "vaulted" concept entirely. Remember this? I do, and I think the whole "Prime Vault" thing was a gigantic step backward on their premise of trying to make sure their microtransactions are ethical, because it's an arbitrary scarcity used to drive up plat purchases. It's fine if they want to sell the access packs, imo, because those generally come with other goodies, but ultimately everything should be earnable in game (except Excal Prime due to promises made to Founders). As someone who has played this game since 2013 and have multiple 20+ MR accounts, I feel comfortable that I'm qualified to make such an assertion. Beyond that, it would be nice to get marketable goods outside of fissures, because if we're honest, fissures are pretty boring these days.

Assuming they won't go that direction with it, it still creates other new opportunities for special rewards, reviving the star chart for veteran players, adding some level of challenge to the game, and encouraging players to squad up and synergize their builds more. This isn't even an exhaustive list of what good this simple idea can provide, but I think you get the picture.

I'm sure you thought of some other cool things we could use these missions for too while admiring that adorable kitty, so share your ideas too!

[Lazarow]

This? 

 

-

[Walkampf]

I sgee to most points, however, I whould implement the Elite idea in another way.

I'd drastically reduce madatory mods values.

For example, Vitality, Serration, Hornetstrike, and so on. These mods should be at least cut to half their bonuses. So, Vitalty granting only 220% health, maybe eben only 180% or 200%.

- Since these mods effect very basic values, this whould leave specific builds still in tact. Pointstrike for example whould notably NOT be changed to ensure Critbuilds not changing.

- This might open up new builds, since mandatory mods arn't as mandatory anymore and a specialised mods might offer more advantage for certain builds..

- This whould drastically reduce the powergap between new players and veterans. I recently started a new account on the switch and it feels just bad to only have a single digit % of damage dealt, not because I lack gameplay experience, but simply because I do'nt have the ressources to fully rank up serration, yet.

- New players whould also hardly be effected by this change, since they don't have the ressources to fully rank up the mandatory mods anyway.

- It whould prevent the playerbase being split between advanced played and newcomers.

- It whould eliminate the need for stronger enemies, which whould in return counter the issue of Warframes automatic scaling to some degree, since after level 100 several issues come up, like armor getting out of control and spike-damage oneshoting players to often, when using squishier Frames.

Edited September 12, 2019 by Walkampf

[FrostDragoon]

Your reply should really be its own thread since it has little to do with the concept. I'll state a few things though.

1) I would not want to see such nerfs to mods. At the very least, compensation buffs would have to be applied universally across weapons/frames for it to not go over badly with the community.

2) I don't care about "splitting the player base." At all. It's a non-issue, because you can always recruit for whatever content you want to run.

3) That lack of power you feel on a new account is intended. You're supposed to build up to those strong mods and builds.

[FrostDragoon]

1 hour ago, Lazarow said:

This? 

 

-

That's one interpretation of the concept. It's fine, but I could see it going differently too.

[peterc3]

11 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

creates a space where vaulted items can be placed so we can get rid of the "vaulted" concept entirely

If DE wanted this, there would be no vault. If implemented, the vault will still exist.

12 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

ultimately everything should be earnable in game

Prime Accessories will never be obtainable in game.

[FrostDragoon]

43 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

If DE wanted this, there would be no vault. If implemented, the vault will still exist.

Prime Accessories will never be obtainable in game.

1. That's not necessarily true. Lack of places to assign loot was one of the justifications for the Primed Vault in the first place. Even if it wasn't, there's always room for them to change their stance on it like that article I linked about the kubrow MTX.

2. I'm not talking about cosmetics. That's a weird straw man, and I'm not sure why you felt it necessary to attempt it.

[5p33dy_01]

18 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

The idea is pretty basic, honestly, but I think it would open up a lot of territory within the game's design space.

Create variants of each node on the chart that unlocks when you complete your first Arbitration rotation C, and add 100 to the base enemy level of said nodes. An "Elite" version, if you will.

Before I go into more detail about what I perceive the merits of such a change to be, take a minute or two to imagine what this would look like and why that requirement would be appropriate. Then think about all the positive implications it carries for expanding reward pools.

It's okay. Take your time. Enjoy this picture of a kitty while you think about that.

Done? Okay!

The best thing I can see as a result of this is that it creates a space where vaulted items can be placed so we can get rid of the "vaulted" concept entirely. Remember this? I do, and I think the whole "Prime Vault" thing was a gigantic step backward on their premise of trying to make sure their microtransactions are ethical, because it's an arbitrary scarcity used to drive up plat purchases. It's fine if they want to sell the access packs, imo, because those generally come with other goodies, but ultimately everything should be earnable in game (except Excal Prime due to promises made to Founders). As someone who has played this game since 2013 and have multiple 20+ MR accounts, I feel comfortable that I'm qualified to make such an assertion. Beyond that, it would be nice to get marketable goods outside of fissures, because if we're honest, fissures are pretty boring these days.

Assuming they won't go that direction with it, it still creates other new opportunities for special rewards, reviving the star chart for veteran players, adding some level of challenge to the game, and encouraging players to squad up and synergize their builds more. This isn't even an exhaustive list of what good this simple idea can provide, but I think you get the picture.

I'm sure you thought of some other cool things we could use these missions for too while admiring that adorable kitty, so share your ideas too!

your post got me thinking..

i like the concept of the nodes.

as for the "Vaulted" section
Warframe is by far one of thee most rewarding games out there, even to the point of the developers sacrifice on income.
everything is earn-able in the game, even up to the game currency, other than cosmetics (which majority can be baught by earn-able plat).
its just about time gates. but the fact that you can trade for plat makes majority of those time gates redundant at some point.

some of the trade-able things which dont come from fissures
arcanes
mods/rivens
kavat/kubrow imprints
i cant think of anything else off the top of my head

the challenge side needs work in terms of amount of enemies, but as for rewards, that is a very difficult area.
what kind of rewards?
how long will those rewards keep people happy?
e.g Gauss and 2 weapons are still new, how many people are bored with them already, how many people are losing interest fast but not yet bored?
not so long ago the "Proton Mod Set" was released, how many people integrated those into their builds?

my point is, they are releasing new content regularly, but its not long before people get bored with it, or flat out dont use it, because they "dont like to wall latch", they even disregard the fact it gives HUGE benefits for a reasonable time, namely https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Proton_Snap
there is still so many things to play around with, but if people dont like 1 thing about something, they just dont touch it.

to be totally fair to the developers, the game is as difficult as you choose as a player.
you can start all over again, you can run into missions with unmoded weapons/frames, you feel that 1 shooting eidolons is no fun, maybe dial down on your damage.
you want difficulty scaling, try scaling your own gear, this way you have the choice of cheese/easy/medium/hard/nightmare mode
if you run into every mission with fully maxed out gear, of course you will cheese everything.
if you run into a mission with no mods and 1 weapon, of course it will be a nightmare (but at least you wont complain that its ridiculously hard, because that was YOUR choice).
the MR tests are a perfect example of how hard forced difficulty can be, take MR 19 test for example, how many people rush to use a shooting type of weapon because it shoots, that is not the intention of the challenge, but people still want to cheese it.

"With great power, comes great responsibility"
you have everything, now how will you use it?
maybe what you are looking for is, forced difficulty (cant handle the power)?

Edited September 13, 2019 by 5p33dy_01

[FrostDragoon]

These false choices aren't difficulty by design, though. What players yearn for--what they have asked for years to have--is content that lets them take their min-maxed gear and really push it without having to wade through 2-3 hours on endless missions before the difficulty eventually arrives. It could be that 100 isn't enough levels to add to each node, but it would be a start.

As for the rewards side of your comment, it very nearly veers off topic. This isn't about how players behave, but about what the game has to offer them.

[5p33dy_01]

9 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

These false choices aren't difficulty by design, though. What players yearn for--what they have asked for years to have--is content that lets them take their min-maxed gear and really push it without having to wade through 2-3 hours on endless missions before the difficulty eventually arrives. It could be that 100 isn't enough levels to add to each node, but it would be a start.

As for the rewards side of your comment, it very nearly veers off topic. This isn't about how players behave, but about what the game has to offer them.

i agree, you should have difficulty against content with your maxed out gear, but is that not what arbitrations does?
starts at level 60-80, yet not many people sit for more than maybe up to 30min which is enemies around 120 i think (i cant remember exactly).
i try stay for at least an hour, but im not always host (host migration messes everything up) and solo doesnt spawn as many enemies as i would like.

the rewards side was me elaborating more on your very vague mentioning of rewards.
i do realize it is " other new opportunities ", but i think they have enough various ways to provide rewards (various events and missions) , so i was getting more in to detail of what type of rewards you were referring to?

[FrostDragoon]

Ah, I see what you mean. I was vague because I'm not actually that picky about it. Just the inclusion of this space as available for rewards to occupy is good enough. The exact implementation is really up to DE, because I find they usually do a good job... and the community lets them know when they don't.

Arbitrations are fine, imo, but it's only one type of end game content and has a time gate behind it, which reduces its value. Along with ESO, Tridolon Hunt, and tier 5 bounties on Cetus/Fortuna, the inclusion of "Elite" mode start chart would give players more end-game options and stuff to do. That's the real goal behind the post.

[FrostDragoon]

I was just thinking that it would be cool for "Elite" zones to have different resource drops too, such as void traces from... the Void, ya know?

[ShortCat]

On 2019-09-12 at 9:33 AM, FrostDragoon said:

it creates a space where vaulted items can be placed so we can get rid of the "vaulted" concept entirely.

Prime Vault is an opportunity for DE to re-release old assets for more profit. Not going to happen.

On 2019-09-12 at 9:33 AM, FrostDragoon said:

Create variants of each node on the chart that unlocks when you complete your first Arbitration rotation C, and add 100 to the base enemy level of said nodes. An "Elite" version, if you will.

This is only a temporary solution and will do more harm than good.
Higher levels won't fix Warframe's difficulty dilemma, because people already can beat this content. Higher starting levels do not invalidate established cheese tactics, it only brings you closer to content said cheese becomes necessary.
The worst part about this change would be, that the avarage Joe, who never goes beyound Rot C will kiss the ground and complain that [insert anything] needs buffs to be able to steam roll higher levels. And those buffs will come, because Warframe's community is filled with whiny spoiled children and DE has no backbone. And we are at square one again. I mean peolpe asked for higher starting levels for years -> we got missions with higher starting level -> people ask for more buffs and even higher levels. At the same time the old content becomes even more obsolete.

No.

[FrostDragoon]

That's a really bad argument, lol.

[ShortCat]

3 hours ago, FrostDragoon said:

That's a really bad argument, lol.

Certainly better than just simply stating something.

[FrostDragoon]

It's simply not worth going into any detail to debunk. It has nothing of merit worth addressing.