Despairing at the arbitration patch note

[Hypermega]

Caught my eye as my tenno stood up ready to instantly log out with my daily log-in reward and i just cant contain my complete disillusion. really what was the point in these changes? are you taunting us? do you really have this feeble a grasp on end game content.

 

For the sake of getting a load off my chest let my spell it out nice and simple what end game is. Fighting the highest level/difficulty enemies possible. that is it! 
This is why your best partners are often seen in solo survival or ESO not to spend 3 hours in a mission but swing at bigger monsters and nothing more how is this not obvious to you! 

If you want those of us who aren't once in a life time awe inspiring mind boggling legendary Masochists to want to play this complete meme of a game mode consider the following.

Enemies are obviously nerfed. they miss more, do less damage and are more predictable. STOP THAT! and give us the same enemies we would find anywhere else at that level or its is pointless.

Remove these stupid drones! they just force you to pick a weapon that easily kills them and trivializes the mobs even more. 

consider that some people playing this just want to test themselves! isn't this a novel idea that just having fun playing is its own reward but you can facilitate this by doing something wow did. IE mythic keystones. or just something we can equip that will set the starting level of a mission to say 100, 200, 300 etc thats consumed immediately after 5 mins (to account for host issues) and now i have a reason to play! not needing to sit in mot for 90 minutes before getting something i can sink my teeth into. 

these aren't suggestions btw but examples of how massively this update fails to do what you obviously intended it for but if you want a serious suggestion hire someone that knows what they are doing to make these design choices.

 

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

DE has already stated that they are trying to come to a solution on difficulty modes. How they choose to implement these difficulty modes has not yet been revealed

[Ultimatesoup]

il y a 36 minutes, Hypermega a dit :

For the sake of getting a load off my chest let my spell it out nice and simple what end game is. Fighting the highest level/difficulty enemies possible.

These are called bullet sponges that one-shot you and I do not understand where the difficulty is in that.

By this definition, new players are more into the endgame than older players because they are fighting enemies that are pretty difficult for them and which are exactly the same enemies that older players fight except for their stats.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Ultimatesoup

[Genitive]

55 minutes ago, Ultimatesoup said:

These are called bullet sponges that one-shot you and I do not understand where the difficulty is in that.

That's true. After a certain point there is no difference what level enemies are, they all require cheese tactics to kill and one shot you no matter what.

I can see the appeal of doing such content, but I prefer something more reasonable. Like having more elite units, like in Orb Vallis.

[Hypermega]

On 2019-09-19 at 7:38 AM, Ultimatesoup said:

These are called bullet sponges that one-shot you and I do not understand where the difficulty is in that.

By this definition, new players are more into the endgame than older players because they are fighting enemies that are pretty difficult for them and which are exactly the same enemies that older players fight except for their stats.

well you might not like it but it is what it is. iv made several threads echoing what you say and offering ideas to make it much more interesting and so has many people and its besides my point here. they changed nothing! give in one hand and take from the other. the biggest complaint i hear is the nuisance mechanics and false scaling ad they dont even change that? all they have to do is remove ithe drones and set AI and levels to normal and its instantly 10 times better but no, death ears as always! but hey at least we have a mod we can farm that KILLS US INSTANTLY!  hurray game saved 

[000l000]

If game is too easy then stop using cheated frames/weapons.

I do agree about drone's terrible design though, i've always found that forcing specific gear was a bad idea. And they did it, again.

[Violet_Xe]

   Well I do appreciate the thought of improving arbs. they need it. But you're completely wrong on what endgame is.

   Endgame is comrpised of 3 parts. Difficulty, Reward, and Replayability. Without all 3 requirements we don't care. We used to have raids which had those aspects at a minimum but they were removed. As did the keys because it was bang for buck. 1 key to over 10+ prime parts. 

   Difficulty, the beef of endgame. It comes in many forms not just high level enemies and bullet sponges. Terrain conditions, enemy modifications, mission objectives, timers, puzzles, etc etc are examples of difficulty. Difficulty is the 1/3 which tests your skill at the game. You must go through this repeatedly to get your rewards.
   Rewards, the driving force of endgame. Players won't care about your endgame if they can farm the exact same thing elsewhere quicker or easier, sometimes both. It must have a unique property to give the mission inherent value to hook players and keep them coming back. For example, a forma pack. 3 forma is 3 days of crafting. That as a reward would be amazing and is offered nowhere else in the game. That is why players play the same thing over and over.
   Replayability, or sustainability. This is comprised of multiple aspects taking fun, challenge, and modifications to provide a unique feel each and every time you play it. If a player can't replay it, then it's not endgame, it's temporary gain. A good example of this is the arbitrations. There is no real reason to farm some things because we have such an overwhelming amount of stuff already. fat stacks of endo sit in our banks with millions of credits piling up. We need something that is always relevant or else we get that one thing we want and ditch it. Infested salvage being an example of a temporary reward, we got nidus and left it for dead. A good example of replayability is kuva survival. It's fun and grants an ever relevant resource kuva for our riven mods. Unlike endo, kuva is consumed at a much higher rate and is used on only key items. Were always short on Kuva but only sometimes on endo.

Without the trinity of endgame requirements, it can't be classified as endgame. Think about it, what you said is you would fight lvl 500 enemies which would 1shot you for no reward at all.

On 2019-09-18 at 11:02 PM, Hypermega said:

For the sake of getting a load off my chest let my spell it out nice and simple what end game is. Fighting the highest level/difficulty enemies possible. that is it! 

Even that is trivial though because LoR has shown himself killing lvl 1000+ enemies with saryn camping in a corner with several specters, lasting over 7 hours in mot. he does nothing but sit there and throw a zenistar, every now and then collecting capsules.

[Aldain]

If endgame is just killing high level enemies then no wonder Warframe's endgame sucks.

Just increasing numbers isn't going to make the A.I. not bricks that can be stunlocked/cheesed into submission.

Never mind that most players in missions where killing enemies isn't needed players just ignore them as much as possible (Mobile defense sortie 3? More like "Bring Limbo and AFK").

Nothing in Warframe's enemies changes from level 1 to level 1,000, they are always the same mediocre piles of HP with guns stapled to them, the only thing that does change is the flavor of cheese that you use to kill things.

If there is ever to be a true "end game" to Warframe, it would need to be something with actual depth, not just bigger sandbags with guns.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

I always felt Arbitration should consist of just the Mid Tier Bosses...no normal enemies, just really high level mobs consisting of non nerfed Nox, Bursa, Maniacs, Juggernauts, the Hyena packs. Throw in the Assassins (Stalker, Gustrag 3, Zanuka)....Toss in Corrupted Vor...Ramp right into Sentients at the 40 minute mark and then have the Warframe specters running about...Then maybe the crowd screaming make it hard would finally shut up about it...Probably not but, if they're dying fast then they'll be happy..or is it wanting others to die fast that's the real motivator?

Anyhoo....but the catch is..this mode rewards everything in the game in a shop...no frustrating drop chances and RNG being a pain in the butt...

Edited September 22, 2019 by (PS4)FriendSharkey

[Hypermega]

You can all gaslight and argue with me all you like about endgame i don't care what your opinion is on it or me as it is entirely besides the point. i came here to leave feedback or id have posted to general discussion and discussed it. DE know why they added arbitration, they know why their best partners and so many players are leaving and i know why they are reworking these game modes.

the point here is the arb changes are a massive step in the no direction at all! iv seen so many awesome ideas rained down on you DE and you have turned your backs and wasted your own time and resources. 

/feedback

[Violet_Xe]

On 2019-09-22 at 10:40 PM, Hypermega said:

You can all gaslight and argue with me all you like about endgame i don't care what your opinion is on it or me as it is entirely besides the point.

   Gaslighting? not really. Were simply telling you that your opinion of what classifies as endgame is flawed and that's the honest truth of the matter. High level content could 100% work for you and if that's what you want good on you. But that isn't the sustainable content that counts as endgame for the vast majority of our community. If DE listened to you they'd be spending time to neglect not only the new player audience which makes money, but also further upset the shrinking dedicated audience of vets by painting the scene as "endgame". It's just another lie to us. If that's what you want then that's you being selfish and wanting time devoted to what you want, not what's best for the game.

On 2019-09-18 at 11:02 PM, Hypermega said:

For the sake of getting a load off my chest let my spell it out nice and simple what end game is. Fighting the highest level/difficulty enemies possible. that is it!

   You can believe in the illusion of high level = endgame all you want but in the end it's still just an illusion. The fact is endgame boils down to three things as I've stated. Difficulty, Replayability, and Reward. No game has achieved a discovered an alternative formula to this one which was set in stone by WoW.

   As for why we are "arguing" with you, we're criticizing so you'll get a better grasp on what's beneficial for the title. DE might see this then think "oh well if it's just high LvL content they want lets ramp up enemy lvls." No that's not what Warframe needs. We don't need another hollow, pointless fight where were oppressed into using a specific warframe to gain nothing in return. I agree with you the arbitration changes were a massive punch to the gut and our concepts have been ignored, but that's nothing new as it's been happening since way before even arbs were added. Even before sorties were added.
   Plus DE does know why the content creators are leaving yes that's true. They've known for a long time why creators will leave eventually, and why vets have been leaving since the days of Mesa's release. it should come as no surprise that they've been leaving because what we've been getting is a watered down version of what you suggest. Aside from Trials and Solar Rail Conflicts, both of which were removed, I don't recall any serious missions or events which challenged the players of the game requiring team work or any enjoyable non-formulaic process of monotonous grind. 

   If you just want high level enemies to fight and that's how you derive joy from the game then I've got just the thing for you. Go to the simulacrum and kill 20 of the highest lvl juggernaut/behemoths you can. Do that for hours on end, come back, and tell me how fun that was and how satisfying it was to do for no reward. If you do decide to do that, take a video of it and show us proof that you truely believe that high lvl enemies is enjoyable long term content. Shouldn't be too hard to prove right?