Gaze + Ruinous Extension

[HolyApplebutter]

Why can't Ruinous Extension be used on the Gaze?  Is it because it's a kitgun?  If so, why is it that weapon-type specific mods like Covert Lethality and stance mods work on Zaws, but not on kitguns?

[NinjaZeku]

49 minutes ago, HolyApplebutter said:

Why can't Ruinous Extension be used on the Gaze?

On one hand, sure, the option wouldn't hurt, I guess.

On the other, you can already customize the beam length when you build your Gaze, so ... dunno, maybe DE wants you to use (just) that.

52 minutes ago, HolyApplebutter said:

why is it that weapon-type specific mods like Covert Lethality and stance mods work on Zaws

Because the effects those Mods bring can't be made innate when you put that Zaw together, would be my reasoning.

[taiiat]

i don't have an answer as to why you can't use it but i will recommend using the Ramble Part so that you have a 37 Meter Range which is already quite impressive.

[Tiltskillet]

Just now, NinjaZeku said:

On one hand, sure, the option wouldn't hurt, I guess.

On the other, you can already customize the beam length when you build your Gaze, so ... dunno, maybe DE wants you to use (just) that.

Because the effects those Mods bring can't be made innate when you put that Zaw together, would be my reasoning.

It's odd though. Why would range be treated differently than all the other attributes that are built into the weapon but are still completely moddable? 

It seems a lot more plausible to me that's it's unintended.

[NinjaZeku]

55 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

It's odd though. Why would range be treated differently than all the other attributes that are built into the weapon but are still completely moddable? 

One difference there would be that stuff like regular Damage / Crit / Status Mods work on a % basis, while +Beam Range is a flat number.

[000l000]

For obvious reasons, choosing the right range is part of Kitguns design and balance (Range vs Damage) so bypassing that with the right mod doesn't seem fair.

[DoomFruit]

27 minutes ago, 000l000 said:

For obvious reasons, choosing the right range is part of Kitguns design and balance (Range vs Damage) so bypassing that with the right mod doesn't seem fair.

Yet you can use covert lethality for a flat damage increase on a dagger built for speed, or maiming strike (or equivalent riven) for a flat crit increase alongside a high status zaw part setup.

Also, I want fulmination for my Tombfinger.

[000l000]

il y a 20 minutes, DoomFruit a dit :

Yet you can use covert lethality for a flat damage increase on a dagger built for speed, or maiming strike (or equivalent riven) for a flat crit increase alongside a high status zaw part setup.

Also, I want fulmination for my Tombfinger.

The whole point of Gaze is that it's quite a powerful weapon that trades range for damage, no other weapon works that way. So i don't see much why you're talking about covert lethality or maiming strike - comparing anything anytime isn't necessarily relevant unless you can find another kit weapon that is built the same way of course.

[DoomFruit]

1 minute ago, 000l000 said:

The whole point of Gaze is that it's quite a powerful weapon that trades range for damage, no other weapon works that way. So i don't see much why you're talking about covert lethality or maiming strike - comparing anything anytime isn't necessarily relevant unless you can find another kit weapon that is built the same way of course.

Gaze really is not that powerful. With a crit build tombfinger, I oneshot arbitration monsters and can do it at huge range. Loads and loads and loads of others seem to love the catchmoon, which is also close-range power (I never liked it myself). I'm actually testing out a max crit gaze build now and it really doesn't seem that powerful. True, it's using ramble, but even if I were to pick haymaker, it only changes the base damage from 17 to 20 - which is basically nothing. If I really want an explicitly close range pistol, I'd pack a maratron, pyrana prime or euphona prime (and others still prefer the atomos).

[NinjaZeku]

2 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

I want fulmination for my Tombfinger.

What would be the point in giving a small % increase to a tiny blast radius?

2 hours ago, DoomFruit said:

I'm actually testing out a max crit gaze build now and it really doesn't seem that powerful. True, it's using ramble, but even if I were to pick haymaker, it only changes the base damage from 17 to 20 - which is basically nothing.

I think for Gaze, you might want to try a Crit / Status hybrid approach (Zipneedle or Stitch),
Beam weapons aren't one-shot monsters but are generally pretty dang good at applying Status
(Fire Rate of 19 with Lethal Torrent, yes please, and mind you, for ammo concerns, there's always Pax Charge).

So a Corrosive Gaze just might eat through high-level Grineer heavies faster than your average Tombfinger / Catchmoon
(innate Puncture and Radiation furthermore are neat against Armor),
and not least with the 5m chaining feature on Gaze, Gas AoE funzies are certainly an option, as well.

[Granted, this is mostly theoretical on my part, I've been waiting for a neat Riven before crafting a Gaze since I already have Atomos, heh.]

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, 000l000 said:

For obvious reasons, choosing the right range is part of Kitguns design and balance (Range vs Damage) so bypassing that with the right mod doesn't seem fair.

Unfair in what way?  I could see it if using Ruinous Extension allowed a higher base damage Gaze to outstrip both the total damage -and- range on a lower base damage version.  But using Overframe to look at the damage and Augur Pact as the trade-out mod, I'm not finding a case where this is so.  For example, Haymaker + Ruinous gets better range but substantially worse damage than Lovetap + Augur Pact.   So if this is holds true for all combinations, being able to use Ruinous is just a customization option, not a bypass of the grip system.

Can you show a build comparison where this isn't the case?   One thing that makes it a little easier is only  Haymaker vs Lovetap, or Ramble vs Gibber have to compared, since the range difference between grips is otherwise too large for Ruinous to overcome.

[DoomFruit]

1 hour ago, NinjaZeku said:

What would be the point in giving a small % increase to a tiny blast radius?

I think for Gaze, you might want to try a Crit / Status hybrid approach (Zipneedle or Stitch),
Beam weapons aren't one-shot monsters but are generally pretty dang good at applying Status
(Fire Rate of 19 with Lethal Torrent, yes please, and mind you, for ammo concerns, there's always Pax Charge).

So a Corrosive Gaze just might eat through high-level Grineer heavies faster than your average Tombfinger / Catchmoon
(innate Puncture and Radiation furthermore are neat against Armor),
and not least with the 5m chaining feature on Gaze, Gas AoE funzies are certainly an option, as well.

[Granted, this is mostly theoretical on my part, I've been waiting for a neat Riven before crafting a Gaze since I already have Atomos, heh.]

If I wanted a status beam pistol, I'd go for the Cycron. It barely ever crits, but it's got slash damage and the bleed procs should make up the difference.

EDIT: even with the crit assembly I've got now, I still get 48% status chance with 3x dual stat mods on there. Not huge - but since the rate of fire is so high, it'll add up. It won't strip armour as fast as a status build, but I managed to roll a +100% crit damage riven, so I'm looking at 119% crit chance with 7.1x multiplier when using both primed crit mods alongside it. That's got to count for something.

And yeah, the tombfinger's blast radius is pathetic. I'd only want it on there for the sake of consistency with other exploding weapons.

Edited September 25, 2019 by DoomFruit

[OvisCaedo]

The actual answer is that it is probably an oversight, and because the Gaze was so unpopular compared to the other kitguns, not enough people noticed it and complained for DE to remember that they forgot to check the "can equip mod" box for it.

I think it took a while of complaints for the Fulmin to be able to equip flight speed mods, too.

Edited September 25, 2019 by OvisCaedo