Operators in PvP

[ByroSphere]

On 2019-10-26 at 10:46 PM, LoriSei said:

Warframe has been quite held back from PvP from quite a while now, the complexity of balancing the game, gets their heads scratching.

Obviously the game has been heavily relying on the game's mechanics such as, modding, bullet-jumping, and some of its broken weapons... (IGNIS and Rifles) -_-

The result have been tremndously becoming dull, tedious and monotonus to play and also I felt the game feels unfinished as of it now. As newer players hoppped into PvP and some of the guns Are unobtainable, plus the modding system is very complex to look at, and unobtainable at the same time. This shows the first impression of Warframe PvP fails to meet new players expectations. Then why not remove all of those and make the game simple and interesting?

So I suggest to reduce the workload of creating a new PvP game by replacing Warframes for Operators and Weapon limitation  remove modding system (it gives slight advantage for veterans)

Great gamemodes = FUN!

Earning standing points to unlock new rewards. (We like good rewards right 🙂 )

Warframe PvP is locked till they finished second dream or war within ,its a great oppurtunity for new players to learn what Warframe was all about!

It's up for the Developers to work around creating lores,

Weapons or Gears only for PvP ( it means everyone can use if even u dont have it)

Operator Abilities or Neither ( means teaching kids self defense mechanics and not relying on their void mode) since no AMPS can be used then they need to rely on weapons or gears to make them faster and stronger at the same time

They can monetize weapon skins which means "money" = faster updates 🙂

I just want to see the game prosper... (People saying the game doesnt need PvP) I'm sorry but the way your thinking is very naive. PvP Warframe has lack of knowledge back then, as right now AAA giants have been monetizing the PvP realm then why held back?  

  Tenno, it’s time to grow up! .  -Courtesy of Led2012 Twitter

 

 

As much as I like the idea of an Operator based PvP. I can’t say I like the thought of having it directly replace Warframe PvP, precisely cause they play differently (not to mention I enjoy hopping around in a frame than as the operator).

That said, I do hope they make something like it eventually... Although they better include more useful rewards in conclave, so that there will be more people playing it.

[Numerikuu]

1 hour ago, LoriSei said:

Cuz the overall game mode was either to complex, clunky, very fast,and too futuristic to relate in IRL and also was lock on a progression wall, plus the mods give slight advanatage for veterans in the game, which nowhere a new player can play enjoyably.

For some perhaps, but most people don't like PvP and avoid it simply because they do not like competitiveness, nor the toxicity it tends to harbour. Most play Warframe for the looting and shooting, the PvE, the cooperativeness, and so on.

While the mode would be fun to some, that some has proven to be a very small minority. Spending time and resources on them would be a wasted effort, as has proven in the past. DE needs to cater to the majority if they want to stay afloat.

[LoriSei]

1 minute ago, ByroSphere said:

As much as I like the idea of an Operator based PvP. I can’t say I like the thought of having it directly replace Warframe PvP, precisely cause they play differently (not to mention I enjoy hopping around in a frame than as the operator).

That said, I do hope they make something like it eventually... Although they better include more useful rewards in conclave, so that there will be more people playing it.

I agree on much you said tbh, but what stopping them is the bullet jump and modding system overall which not easily can remove on Warframes identity.

Complains that I encounter playing the game.

First : It's not fun to use controllers on even on a PC

Second: It's way to fast! ,and it feels not realistic for a PvP. Which I never seen a popular game before does do the same mechanics

(Just look on the article why Futuristic Call of Duty set them to failure and rather revive the Modern Warfare Version instead)

Third: Modding system was way to complex and hard to obtain and I feel I need to spend a platinum to get it

Fourth: Conclave Progression System 🤦‍♂️

Fifth: Broken Ability & Weapons XD

[LoriSei]

6 minutes ago, Numerikuu said:

For some perhaps, but most people don't like PvP and avoid it simply because they do not like competitiveness, nor the toxicity it tends to harbour. Most play Warframe for the looting and shooting, the PvE, the cooperativeness, and so on.

I used to hear that even I speak it for my self. 1500+hrs in CSGO. 2500+ hrs in DOTA2 I really used to hate,how annyoying people can be in frustration and toxicity, but I kept comming back, its because the game mechanics knows its nature and behavious of people, like an animals being leashed in the wilds

Which is the norm of all PvP's out there. So my answer is " unnavoidable" and "addiction" 

 

15 minutes ago, Numerikuu said:

While the mode would be fun to some, that some has proven to be a very small minority. Spending time and resources on them would be a wasted effort, as has proven in the past. DE needs to cater to the majority if they want to stay afloat.

My question now is that ,what do you do when u accomplish everthing in Warframe?

I dont see a small minority PvP and Destiny 2 knows how to do it right.This keeps veterans stay afloat while waiting for the new update to be released.

I know all of this because I've played Warframe for 2000+hrs now like u guys waiting for the update and was stuck in the region chat or grinding kuva, nightwaves and such XD

I rather have somthing that can switch between PvE to PvP the if I got frustrated I go back play PvE again. Simple XD

If u said 2000 is not enough, but tbh I'm really effiecient how to use my time properly.

 

[Numerikuu]

1 hour ago, LoriSei said:

My question now is that ,what do you do when u accomplish everthing in Warframe?

 

I rather have somthing that can switch between PvE to PvP the if I got frustrated I go back play PvE again. Simple XD

Been playing since 2013, have double that in hours, MR27, have yet to accomplish everything, and I'm still finding things to do in the game 😉 but that's besides the point.

And you have it. Right now. There's PvP modes in the game should you want to switch back and forth. They're unpopulated however because, shocker, the vast majority that play this game don't like nor care for pvp due to it always being a more PvE focused game. DE even tried making it more PvE-fied (sort of) by adding Lunaro, but that was an even bigger flop imo.

If you want a PvP focused game, this ain't it chief, and it should never be.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Numerikuu

[LoriSei]

56 minutes ago, Numerikuu said:

Been playing since 2013, have double that in hours, MR27, have yet to accomplish everything, and I'm still finding things to do in the game 😉 but that's besides the point.

And you have it. Right now. There's PvP modes in the game should you want to switch back and forth. They're unpopulated however because, shocker, the vast majority that play this game don't like nor care for pvp due to it always being a more PvE focused game. DE even tried making it more PvE-fied (sort of) by adding Lunaro, but that was an even bigger flop imo.

If you want a PvP focused game, this ain't it chief, and it should never be.

  Man once u start u need to stick and maintain or remake it. If Railjacks is a big-flop which means theres is really somthing wrong in the-games mechanic, and AAA game companies and knows this and was trying to avoid such failures wheter's PvP or PvE.

Why do you think Destiny failed to impress at their first lauch and now Destiny 2 started booming.

(Because they learn how to change things that works, and things that are don't.)

Abbandoning a mode such as PvP hurts the game's revenue and reputation significantly, and I mean it will be in their history. Thats why its harder to reccomend Warframe to my friends if u have Destiny 2

My question is right now if u have mistakes would u go back and change things?

Also try creating a new account and see it for yourself

Edited October 28, 2019 by LoriSei

[ByroSphere]

2 hours ago, LoriSei said:

I agree on much you said tbh, but what stopping them is the bullet jump and modding system overall which not easily can remove on Warframes identity.

Complains that I encounter playing the game.

First : It's not fun to use controllers on even on a PC

Second: It's way to fast! ,and it feels not realistic for a PvP. Which I never seen a popular game before does do the same mechanics

(Just look on the article why Futuristic Call of Duty set them to failure and rather revive the Modern Warfare Version instead)

Third: Modding system was way to complex and hard to obtain and I feel I need to spend a platinum to get it

Fourth: Conclave Progression System 🤦‍♂️

Fifth: Broken Ability & Weapons XD

There is s way to deal with the mobility without restricting anything tho... Basically, give auto weapons aim assist and snipers more base ammo. Warframe abilities are for the most part balanced. That’d make it more viable for PvP, while the mobility (especially when fast) in itself is plenty fun imo.

They have never seen a working game that is this fast paced, because they are only looking at ground bound pc cover shooters, there are far better examples for that in some console  mech games or games of the hack n slash variety.

But yeah, the conclave rewards/progression needs a major overhaul. It’s just way too excluded from the rest of the game, along with just lacking worthwhile rewards in general.

[LoriSei]

1 minute ago, ByroSphere said:

There is s way to deal with the mobility without restricting anything tho... Basically, give auto weapons aim assist and snipers more base ammo. Warframe abilities are for the most part balanced. That’d make it more viable for PvP, while the mobility (especially when fast) in itself is plenty fun imo.

They have never seen a working game that is this fast paced, because they are only looking at ground bound pc cover shooters, there are far better examples for that in some console  mech games or games of the hack n slash variety.

But yeah, the conclave rewards/progression needs a major overhaul. It’s just way too excluded from the rest of the game, along with just lacking worthwhile rewards in general.

Nah really sure about auto aim:

First: It feels cheating and less human reflex wether in a mouse or console

Second: It feels that all weapons have scopes gonna be the most used in game

Third: Think about realism, we dont use auto aim scope IRL. This just degrade the skill of a great marksman, for console is good but for PC players is meh.

Speaking of Conclave. The progression wall hits me hard (too much requirments to hop-in). In a new players point of views I started got uninterested to play PvP in Warframe (My first experience took me 6 months to comeback and give the game a  chance)

However, in Destiny 2 they know how to invite players in PvP even as a new player.

[ByroSphere]

1 minute ago, LoriSei said:

First: It feels cheating and less human reflex wether in a mouse or console

What is cheating, is when the weapon needs to land multiple shots to be useful, but has no reliable way to do so, while every other weapon can compensate either by high damage per shot or wide AoE. Aim Assist would only balance it out, not make it op.

 

6 minutes ago, LoriSei said:

Second: It feels that all weapons have scopes gonna be the most used in game

Not sure what you mean

 

7 minutes ago, LoriSei said:

Third: Think about realism, we dont use auto aim scope IRL. This just degrade the skill of a great marksman, for console is good but for PC players is meh.

This is a game about Psychic Cyborg Space Ninja Orphans From Tha Future! Realism isn’t that important of a factor here... Especially if you can shake the aim assist off either as “guns being made smart” or psychic sense.

 

10 minutes ago, LoriSei said:

Speaking of Conclave. The progression wall hits me hard (too much requirments to hop-in). In a new players point of views I started got uninterested to play PvP in Warframe (My first experience took me 6 months to comeback and give the game a  chance)

However, in Destiny 2 they know how to invite players in PvP even as a new player.

Dunno much about Destiny, but agreed. Conclave is really just best played casually as of now... But because there is not much reason to farm it, there are not many people to play it casually with either.

[LoriSei]

7 minutes ago, ByroSphere said:

What is cheating, is when the weapon needs to land multiple shots to be useful, but has no reliable way to do so, while every other weapon can compensate either by high damage per shot or wide AoE. Aim Assist would only balance it out, not make it op.

This is a game about Psychic Cyborg Space Ninja Orphans From Tha Future! Realism isn’t that important of a factor here... Especially if you can shake the aim assist off either as “guns being made smart” or psychic sense.

Dunno much about Destiny, but agreed. Conclave is really just best played casually as of now... But because there is not much reason to farm it, there are not many people to play it casually with either.

Well fair enough and pardon cuz I never really played a game with aim assist before, so it was kinda brand new to see it. 

[ByroSphere]

6 minutes ago, LoriSei said:

Well fair enough and pardon cuz I never really played a game with aim assist before, so it was kinda brand new to see it. 

It’s mostly only common in console games, because gamepads arent as accurate as the mouse, and because the more fast paced games tend to only be there.

Warframe is plenty fast paced, so it would not be strange to see it there... Although for balancing reasons, I only think that autoweps needs it atm.

No need to apologize btw, it’s all cool 🙂

Edited October 28, 2019 by ByroSphere

[LoriSei]

16 minutes ago, ByroSphere said:

It’s mostly only common in console games, because gamepads arent as accurate as the mouse, and because the more fast paced games tend to only be there.

Warframe is plenty fast paced, so it would not be strange to see it there... Although for balancing reasons, I only think that autoweps needs it atm.

No need to apologize btw, it’s all cool 🙂

My idea kinda sounds rubish but tbh I really want that PvP revamp or else they'll fall behind and stagnates the way it is.

Still looking forward for Railjack tho, if they cant bring players back. I'm pretty sure, that they need to revamp overalls game mechanic. Because its not healthy for the game on whats I was seeing right now. 

Edited October 28, 2019 by LoriSei

[Kontrollo]

9 hours ago, LoriSei said:

...

Speaking of Conclave. The progression wall hits me hard (too much requirments to hop-in). In a new players point of views I started got uninterested to play PvP in Warframe (My first experience took me 6 months to comeback and give the game a  chance)

...

There's definitely a problem with how poorly explained everything is, and the progression is definitely outdated, too. That's because it has hardly received any updates in a while, and only ever had a few devs working on it in the first place. Meanwhile, PvE changes have bled into parts of it (a lot of stats are based on PvE). However, a lot of mods are like the corrupted ones in PvE (pro/con), or only give minor advantages. A starter loadout of MK1-Braton, MK1-Furis and Skana is already competitive.

Despite that, there are still people playing it, and a few problems aside, it's still very much playable. It definitely needs polish, but it's not like you're going to see "Content Drought" threads after two weeks without an update from that part of the community. 

Also, it does have a learning curve and a high skill ceiling. But if you need people to show you the ropes, there's a community Discord server at discord.me/conclave (direct invite link).

[LoriSei]

9 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

There's definitely a problem with how poorly explained everything is, and the progression is definitely outdated, too. That's because it has hardly received any updates in a while, and only ever had a few devs working on it in the first place. Meanwhile, PvE changes have bled into parts of it (a lot of stats are based on PvE). However, a lot of mods are like the corrupted ones in PvE (pro/con), or only give minor advantages. A starter loadout of MK1-Braton, MK1-Furis and Skana is already competitive.

Despite that, there are still people playing it, and a few problems aside, it's still very much playable. It definitely needs polish, but it's not like you're going to see "Content Drought" threads after two weeks without an update from that part of the community. 

Also, it does have a learning curve and a high skill ceiling. But if you need people to show you the ropes, there's a community Discord server at discord.me/conclave (direct invite link).

U see the problem here is that its hard for it to introduce the game. 

As you know other games doesn’t require you to go on discord or such and its the generic thinking that  I know other games can tell the basics of the game but Warframe makes it not understandably tell that (I mean other games don’t req to know such learning curves) 

Thats why Warframe PvP sets apart to a good PvP game  becuase of its complexity and hard to understand mechanics.

[Kontrollo]

7 hours ago, LoriSei said:

U see the problem here is that its hard for it to introduce the game. 

As you know other games doesn’t require you to go on discord or such and its the generic thinking that  I know other games can tell the basics of the game but Warframe makes it not understandably tell that (I mean other games don’t req to know such learning curves) 

Thats why Warframe PvP sets apart to a good PvP game  becuase of its complexity and hard to understand mechanics.

I agree with that.

But it's not like PvE is any different at its core, because Conclave just builds on that. The only reason the whole complexity of the damage system doesn't really matter anymore in PvE is because power creep has spiralled so much out of control that it hardly matters anymore what you bring into a regular mission.

Also, there was an instagib mode called Opticor Variant and some PvP events which had everyone on equal footing. The former was removed without any explanation, the latter haven't been brought back in years.

It's not really necessary to invest time and develop a completely new game mode. They could just bring those back. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[LoriSei]

4 hours ago, Kontrollo said:

I agree with that.

But it's not like PvE is any different at its core, because Conclave just builds on that. The only reason the whole complexity of the damage system doesn't really matter anymore in PvE is because power creep has spiralled so much out of control that it hardly matters anymore what you bring into a regular mission.

Also, there was an instagib mode called Opticor Variant and some PvP events which had everyone on equal footing. The former was removed without any explanation, the latter haven't been brought back in years.

It's not really necessary to invest time and develop a completely new game mode. They could just bring those back. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I also do agree and I stumbled this morning about 5 things Destiny 2 can teach Waframe and most of his suggestion felt that Warframe should have this idea long time ago

(which he's gonna make a video also opposite to this)  tbh I felt emmbarrased that this game is lacking that kind of content, I dont know much about Destiny 2 but when I played 2 days ago, I felt the urge to say it that "Destiny 2 is better than Warframe in terms of bring majority of target audience into their game."

I mean, those who like PvP,PvE, Casual,Competetive,Raids come together as one.

"I mean its fairly clear, that this game made with such fine details, but its clearly lacking of appreciation"

 

Edited October 30, 2019 by LoriSei

[Althaline]

1 hour ago, LoriSei said:

I also do agree and I stumbled this morning about 5 things Destiny 2 can teach Waframe and most of his suggestion felt that Warframe should have this idea long time ago

I watched the video you linked. 3/5 suggestions basically boiled down to "solve every problem by adding the stereotypical power treadmill". The others were reworking and shoving huge rewards behind PvP (like that'll happen), and bringing back raids (which I actually want, I have good memories of LoR).

[LoriSei]

15 minutes ago, Iamabearlulz said:

I watched the video you linked. 3/5 suggestions basically boiled down to "solve every problem by adding the stereotypical power treadmill". The others were reworking and shoving huge rewards behind PvP (like that'll happen), and bringing back raids (which I actually want, I have good memories of LoR).

DE's History of Stubborness XD