Naramon worries

[(PSN)Keiji_Haku]

Anyone else worried that naramon will lose power from melee 3.0? They didnt mention it during primetime.

[(PSN)Keiji_Haku]

Just now, (XB1)TyeGoo said:

What power?

By power i mean general usefulness. The best part about it was power spike. Im just not sure how useful it will be with the combo counter changes. Kinda worries me

[BornWithTeeth]

1 minute ago, (XB1)TyeGoo said:

What power?

Right now, Naramon enhances Combo counter, and Zenurik enhances Channeling, and the two mechanics are entirely separate.

 

Melee 3.0 is making Channeling into Heavy Attacks, which consume Combo Counter in a similar way that Channeling consumes energy. So...basically one potential outcome is that the two mechanics are being rolled together in a way that makes Zenurik incredibly powerful, while gutting the most useful thing that Naramon does.

 

 

Which is kinda funny because for various reasons it seems like DE are either unable or unwilling to admit that Zenurik is and probably always has been the most used Focus School and has always had some of the most broadly game-breaking effects. Zenurik basically means that Warframe energy costs are a *joke*, and it’s been doing that for years now, without the devs ever acknowledging that due to a combination of playstyles and mechanics, Zenurik is OP as hell.

 

So yeah, I fully expect DE to just straight up give Naramon’s cool bennies to Zenurik as well.

[Genitive]

 

12 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

So yeah, I fully expect DE to just straight up give Naramon’s cool bennies to Zenurik as well.

They already talked about changes on Prime Time.

Zenurik - Inner Might - Has been changed to provide 60% Combo Efficiency, instead of Channeling Efficiency

There was no mention of Power Spike, so I assume it stays the same. Unless there is more changes they didn't cover.

[BornWithTeeth]

9 minutes ago, Genitive said:

 

They already talked about changes on Prime Time.

Zenurik - Inner Might - Has been changed to provide 60% Combo Efficiency, instead of Channeling Efficiency

There was no mention of Power Spike, so I assume it stays the same. Unless there is more changes they didn't cover.

Ok, so for a very basic bit of clarification: Heavy Attacks consume combo meter. Does a Heavy Attack, by default, without these Focus mechanics, consume all of your combo meter or just some percentage of it?

[TronionX]

i THINK they said that a heavy attack comsumes 10 or so combo AKA 10 normal hits, so if 60% combo efficiency is the same like having 160% power efficiency that would mean that a heavy attack would consume 4 combo points, again tho i could have interpreted it wrong

[BornWithTeeth]

8 minutes ago, TronionX said:

i THINK they said that a heavy attack comsumes 10 or so combo AKA 10 normal hits, so if 60% combo efficiency is the same like having 160% power efficiency that would mean that a heavy attack would consume 4 combo points, again tho i could have interpreted it wrong

Then, one more bit of clarification before any kind of further speculation (because it can only be speculation right now anyway): combo counter no longer gives a flat damage bonus to regular attacks, right? It's only for fueling Heavy attacks?

[TronionX]

Yes

[Genitive]

21 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Ok, so for a very basic bit of clarification: Heavy Attacks consume combo meter. Does a Heavy Attack, by default, without these Focus mechanics, consume all of your combo meter or just some percentage of it?

Dev workshop says heavy attacks consume all counter, but it is affected by mods. So I assume with Zenurik and mods it will only consume a percentage of the counter. I guess.

[BornWithTeeth]

Then yeah, if those rules work the way they were described on Prime Time, DE have given Zenurik an equivalent melee bonus to the Naramon school, comparatively reduced the usefulness of Naramon, and probably left the energy bonus effects with Zenurik as well.

 

 

Has anyone ever just straight up asked DE why they want Zenurik to be just the best Focus school?

Edited October 28, 2019 by BornWithTeeth

[Jarriaga]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Keiji_Haku said:

Anyone else worried that naramon will lose power from melee 3.0? They didnt mention it during primetime.

 

2 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Melee 3.0 is making Channeling into Heavy Attacks, which consume Combo Counter in a similar way that Channeling consumes energy. So...basically one potential outcome is that the two mechanics are being rolled together in a way that makes Zenurik incredibly powerful, while gutting the most useful thing that Naramon does.

Which is kinda funny because for various reasons it seems like DE are either unable or unwilling to admit that Zenurik is and probably always has been the most used Focus School and has always had some of the most broadly game-breaking effects. Zenurik basically means that Warframe energy costs are a *joke*, and it’s been doing that for years now, without the devs ever acknowledging that due to a combination of playstyles and mechanics, Zenurik is OP as hell.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who sees how this would make Zenurik even more of a broken school as it could outdamage Naramon in melee assuming the same exact build.

imagine just the Skana with just Primed Pressure Point, Drifting Contact, Life Strike, and a reworked Reflex Coil that gives just +30% combo efficiency. This means that both light and heavy attacks get +165% extra damage, you can sustain your combo for 13 seconds, Life Strike is applied to heavy attacks, and heavy attacks only consume 70% of your combo counter instead of all of it. Based on what was shown in the Prime Time, heavy attacks are 2x-4x normal attack damage.

Now let's set a simple combo counter of 100 hits. In Naramon, a single Life Strike hit would drain it down to 30. In Zenurik (Now 90% combo efficiency considering its passive), Life Strike would drain it to just 90, so you can deal a lot more heavy melee hits with 2x-4x damage in Zenurik while Naramon would almost lose its entire combo with the same number of hits.

I made a thread about it last Friday, but it didn't get much traction:

Zenurik currently has too many advantages. Giving it melee heavy attack efficiency on top of that when the new system was designed around capitalizing on heavy attacks would only further push it towards "So good that there's really no other choice".

Edited October 28, 2019 by Jarriaga

[(PSN)Keiji_Haku]

10 minutes ago, Jarriaga said:

 

Glad to see I'm not the only one who sees how this would make Zenurik even more of a broken school as it could outdamage Naramon in melee assuming the same exact build.

imagine just the Skana with just Primed Pressure Point, Drifting Contact, Life Strike, and a reworked Reflex Coil that gives just +30% combo efficiency. This means that both light and heavy attacks get +165% extra damage, you can sustain your combo for 13 seconds, Life Strike is applied to heavy attacks, and heavy attacks only consume 70% of your combo counter instead of all of it. Based on what was shown in the Prime Time, heavy attacks are 2x-4x normal attack damage.

Now let's set a simple combo counter of 100 hits. In Naramon, a single Life Strike hit would drain it down to 30. In Zenurik (Now 90% combo efficiency considering its passive), Life Strike would drain it to just 90, so you can deal a lot more heavy melee hits with 2x-4x damage in Zenurik while Naramon would almost lose its entire combo with the same number of hits.

I made a thread about it last Friday, but it didn't get much traction:

Zenurik currently has too many advantages. Giving it melee heavy attack efficiency on top of that when the new system was designed around capitalizing on heavy attacks would only further push it towards "So good that there's really no other choice".

Oh i just realised how bad lifestrike will be now on anything but a zenurik build

[Jarriaga]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Keiji_Haku said:

Oh i just realised how bad lifestrike will be now on anything but a zenurik build

I don't personally use Life Strike, but those who do are in for a rude awakening when they realize they can't use it because they don't have enough combo counter to sacrifice for a LS hit. Zenurik will become mandatory.

[(PSN)CodyXSavageX]

2 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Right now, Naramon enhances Combo counter, and Zenurik enhances Channeling, and the two mechanics are entirely separate.

 

Melee 3.0 is making Channeling into Heavy Attacks, which consume Combo Counter in a similar way that Channeling consumes energy. So...basically one potential outcome is that the two mechanics are being rolled together in a way that makes Zenurik incredibly powerful, while gutting the most useful thing that Naramon does.

 

 

Which is kinda funny because for various reasons it seems like DE are either unable or unwilling to admit that Zenurik is and probably always has been the most used Focus School and has always had some of the most broadly game-breaking effects. Zenurik basically means that Warframe energy costs are a *joke*, and it’s been doing that for years now, without the devs ever acknowledging that due to a combination of playstyles and mechanics, Zenurik is OP as hell.

 

So yeah, I fully expect DE to just straight up give Naramon’s cool bennies to Zenurik as well.

Shhh I didn’t get a r3 energize yet don’t talk about zenurik

[(PSN)Keiji_Haku]

3 hours ago, Jarriaga said:

I don't personally use Life Strike, but those who do are in for a rude awakening when they realize they can't use it because they don't have enough combo counter to sacrifice for a LS hit. Zenurik will become mandatory.

yeah see I don't like that. "We want variety but you know use zenurik only"

[Renegade343]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)Keiji_Haku said:

yeah see I don't like that. "We want variety but you know use zenurik only"

"You know, what do you mean by other schools? We don't remember having them."

[Althaline]

Zenurik has been the best school since TSD released, and nothing's really changed in that time. No matter how many times they rework the focus system, as long as Zenurik has a way to regenerate energy and the other schools don't, the meta will always live on Zenurik. The immense CC capabilities (and soon melee bonuses) are just icing... really good icing.

[Avienas]

Just now, Iamabearlulz said:

Zenurik has been the best school since TSD released, and nothing's really changed in that time. No matter how many times they rework the focus system, as long as Zenurik has a way to regenerate energy and the other schools don't, the meta will always live on Zenurik. The immense CC capabilities (and soon melee bonuses) are just icing... really good icing.

And this is why its a massive stretch for me to use other schools outside of Zenurik.

• Madurai`s primary function is literally Void strike and the only thing that requires that cluster-fk of a DBZ episode meme, is eidolon hunting where its extremely limited on being able to buff amp damage.
• Unairu is basically the same position as Madurai, cept more for bigger brain players like Chroma to bring a Unairu wisp, since the self damage and combo counter they need for themselves tends to get in the way of Void Strike.
• Vazarin being the lazy man`s affinity farmer, filler slot so you can spend less time rezzing people and can stay in affinity range of others even when your across the map. Oh plus it basically has the 2nd best focus school non-waybound skill in the game, the `Heal Dash`, which lets you give temp invulnerability and a massive 60% MAX HP heal, that easily gets done in only a few seconds...Plus it affects lures, your warframe, defense targets, mobile defense targets and those disruption/arbitation npc stoodges, so you do not fail due to them taking too much tap damage.
• Naramon finally being the meme, trash bench of it. Because it acts the opposite of Vazarin, giving bonus affinity on melee skills, instead of pillaging it via affinity share range, with the other being the ability to have naramon retain combo counter with a decay instead, They are going to need to have this thing build up combo counter faster and maybe throw in a mini-combo counter damage boost, OTHERWISE, naramon literally is going to fade into non-existence, since we have so many other ways to farm affinity and focus now, that the +45% affinity bonus on melee kills is going to need to get doubled or even tripled to have a chance to let people even care to invest in naramon, which its already likely not many care much about naramon`s waybound abilities, a +30% increase on sprint speed and the `speed` of void dashes by +120%.

Quite literally its only Zenurik, when i can`t rely on Arcane Energize to cover my needs or Vazarin, because i want to keep a target alive in high level content, such as in arbitation where i would like to go 2-3 rounds to get good civ vitus essence, then just a paultry 1 per hour of a arbitration rotation.