In My Opinion, The Lich Theft Mechanic is not Broken

[warframetenno1993]

2 hours ago, Reiyd said:

I have heard some outrage over the fact that Kuva Liches can steal relics and such, making it seemingly impossible to kill them. However, if you want to farm Requiem relics, you should remove their influence from the planet before doing Kuva Siphons or Floods, that way they do not steal your relics. Worst case scenario, if they have influence over the whole planet, wait a bit for the fortress to move and do Kuva missions on another planet.

Just thought I would suggest this in case people hadn't realized!

Even after I cleared the sector it still stole my loot 🙂 Yeah, working flawlessly.

[Avienas]

5 hours ago, Alpha_Tango said:

So you are complaining about the grind?

This is not supposed to be done in haste. You can also choose not to engage when only you and you alone can kill the "marked" larvling after a Guardian announces its presence. Even when they are activated, there are ways, mentioned by the OP, to keep them off nodes where a likely requiem relic can be stolen. At nodes occupied by them, you can still choose regular/syndicate/sortie missions from a drop down menu if you want a break from the Lich. Only killing thralls for murmurs until they enraged makes them appear in occupied nodes. 

Since you obviously know the whole grind ahead of you and can gauge if you can handle it. You can choose to ignore it and trade for plat until you can buy "stuff" to kill them minus the grind. 

The worst "stuff" you can buy off the market is a hefty 850 platinum for the requiem mods. DE has to earn from something.  There is nothing malicious about it when people who can, buy with their wallets, while still leaving an option to earn them for free. Maybe trade now and earn some while console is still not updated ?

The whole game revolves around grinding and RNG, it is nothing new. There are no revisions needed, but clearly this boils down to business and numbers always dictates the direction to take.

Very sure people mention how easy it can be to accidentally kill them, especially if the mercy button is tied to melee or something, Especially if a bunch of enemies are next to where the thing is and you did not bring your AoE, group clearing guns like Acceltra or Tonkor and only brought your fancy sword/fist melee weapons, plus you do not have a operator yet or never really built/brought a amp, because grineer ignore void damage, despite orokin & sentinent, despite grineer being made by the former, pretty much gets roasted by the stuff. Plus i would assume that some kind of mechanic would still cause them to spread other nodes to help `nudge` you to take care of them, unless D.E. decided they only spread when you try to poke any of their nodes, which kind of half defeats the purpose of a nemesis system in some ways.

Plus just because i know how to poke the market for scraps of plat, does not mean i want to spend a deluxe skin sized worth of platinum, just so i can do between 6-12 liches and hope they drop what i want, instead of giving me copies of kuva weapons i already own. Especially when it can take several hours just to make as much as 30 plat(usually mods/arcane as the most easy to manage to sell resource in market chat), since the only decent way to make platinum is either thru prime sets[since the arcanes & riven marketing focus is a ridiculously unstable platform to chase for platinum] (which means i STILL have to farm void traces to then spam radiant relics and still have to get a group[cause 1/4th the odds to get the part you need is utter garbage], which g.g. if the person wanting to buy has already gotten a different seller by the time you scrap together a full set, OR people are not really interested in running the runs unless you decide to cover all the relics and probably pay platinum/goods to have them come along, Oh plus you have to worry about the people deciding to run off with the platinum and relics you just `paid them in advance` with, because they are not in a binding agreement to help you get the parts, not give you the parts from the relics you paid them to carry).

I would gladly put money down towards a game if i am paying for stuff that is `worth` my money, but if i have to purposely spend money for timer savers because a system is more convoluted low drop chance, after low drop chance, after low drop chance(literally), just to get a single item. Well, as some people have said roughly, on youtube about certain games like Assassin`s creed Odyssey, Literally LotR Shadow of War or whatever its called and those Tom clancy `recent games`:

People are not fans of a system being put in placed and basically be sold the solution to the thing, when the only other alternative means is just a extremely frustrating system which would likely not get properly tidied up later. Which further does not help if the other solution is to ignore the system, ignore the fact that 13 new weapons, all basically the grineer version of prime weapons are now present, plus plenty of people already ignore going past mastery rank 13 or so, since they give little care on basically taking twice the time to grind out certain things like syndicates/factions/simaris/void traces/default capacity/etc.

Plus, A free to play game should have the pay option be the alternative, not the primary way to basically get stuff, we do not need D.E. deciding to be more like EA games or Activision with their business practices, when plenty of things in the game should get addressed, then us having more gimmick things put in, when they usually just lead to grindie systems, when we already got plenty of grindie systems that are usually already mandatory, then things that actually give a `challenge`. which based on some youtube videos im seeing on Kuva liches, apparently they can just one shot kill you, even as a tank even if you do not get to the mercy part, meaning one can easily lose 2 or even all their lives before you can confirm what requiem mod is needed for the first 2 slots.

If i had to use Final Fantasy 14 & Phantasy Star online 2 as prime examples again, any game in general needs to make the game appealing and give players a VERY fun time, especially to give the reason that people are getting their money`s worth, if they fail to achieve that, then thinking its a good idea to add more tedious grind and throwing up more payment systems, before they used whatever money they earned to get the game into a fun system again, well then its pretty much like those fiascos, where people start digging up articles where CEOs and what not are getting huge pay checks, while the lower staff are crunching to be more `pushed` towards adding more pay-walled stuff in, instead of fixing the bugs that should of been squashed last year or so in that game, which likely ends up producing more bugs as more content is added instead of squashing said bugs first.

 

Just as a small note, i have around 2655 platinum, not because i want to sink it all into a perpetual sink system, but because i usually need it to satisfy my enjoyment of deluxe skins, especially good bundles, whenever i need more slots and if i really need to, when i really need an affinity booster for grinding a huge amount of weapons and i have yet to figure better ways to grind them outside of hydron and i do not consider ESO, since i rather not be just leeching other players just so i can grind a bunch of weapons, yet bringing only said weapon by itself, is the most optimal way to grind them, which i need to do atleast 3 times minimum, so it can usually fit a full build on, which i have to decide on the first time i played with it, if its a fun/useful enough weapon to use in regular game play. Plus market chat system is a very annoying system that i do not like spending hours, multiple times each week, just to make smidgeons of plat each time, so i rather just get a huge stock and not have to worry about frequenting it for months on end.

Now to get back on topic after letting out that huge rage-fueled rant just from observing what its like on pc and predicting what its going to be like long-term...

6 hours ago, Miser_able said:

I've only once have something stolen that annoyed me, 10 void traces. This left me with 97 traces instead of the full 100 I needed, so I just ran it again. 

So let me get this straight, Kuva liches can also appear on fissures to screw with you? When its already a slight annoyance to farm hundreds of traces? Sure i guess 10% of your traces would not be that annoying, but i certainly would not be a fan of doing a long-term farm of wanting around 300-600 void traces so i can open a decent number of relics, only to lose around 30-60, meaning i have to run more fissures again to get enough. Especially when i am now also hearing that D.E. forgot to make sure to properly mark misions that they can spawn in, do have the ability to show up on those nodes? Feel free to correct me on the details since i have yet to `digest` the full details on the Kuva Lich system.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

9 hours ago, Reiyd said:They are only consumed when you kill a lich and have three uses. I feel like that's overreacting.

Nope, the progress loop of Warframe is you grind and grind until you don’t have to grind anymore or the grind is minimized. The requiem mods being consumed makes Kuva liches neither of those cases and I want no part of it.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

9 hours ago, Oreades said:

Shouldn't have been there in the first place

Yeah well you know, oversights happen.

[Reiyd]

9 hours ago, HereticWins said:

Even after I cleared the sector it still stole my loot 🙂 Yeah, working flawlessly.

Sounds like a bug. You should report that in the bug forums!

 

8 minutes ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Nope, the progress loop of Warframe is you grind and grind until you don’t have to grind anymore or the grind is minimized. The requiem mods being consumed makes Kuva liches neither of those cases and I want no part of it.

Theeeeen... Don't take part in it? Considering how long it takes to kill a lich and how absolutely easy it is to get these mods in my own experience actually playing the system, I can say that it is barely a problem in my opinion. If you disagree, than you disagree.

[Miser_able]

6 hours ago, Avienas said:

...

So let me get this straight, Kuva liches can also appear on fissures to screw with you? When its already a slight annoyance to farm hundreds of traces? Sure i guess 10% of your traces would not be that annoying, but i certainly would not be a fan of doing a long-term farm of wanting around 300-600 void traces so i can open a decent number of relics, only to lose around 30-60, meaning i have to run more fissures again to get enough. Especially when i am now also hearing that D.E. forgot to make sure to properly mark misions that they can spawn in, do have the ability to show up on those nodes? Feel free to correct me on the details since i have yet to `digest` the full details on the Kuva Lich system.

They can steal from you when you do missions on a planet they have control on. I made the mistake of doing a fissure on one of they're planets. 

[Oreades]

3 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Yeah well you know, oversights happen.

Yeah, thing is DE has a consonant history of blatantly obvious oversights. 

Things that are bough up multiple times as being massively problematic by people in the forums well before they are ever actually implemented and they still manage to go live with said glaringly obvious issue(s) undressed. Usually taking a week plus (if not years) before they are finally addressed. 

Even in cases where they should have learned from past experience. When PoE launched without Eidolon bounties and Eidolons where a complete cluster @#$%@^, they added bounties and then the Profit taker launched with dedicated bounties. So ya figure everything is good, they learned from the issues with Eidolons, awesome! and then the Exploiter launches..... with no bounties..... and it is a complete train wreck..... I think it was a month before they finally added in actual Exploiter Bounties?

Now there are a few possibilities for why these things happen.

1. They just don't even see the problem regardless of how obvious it is. Which is a bit concerning but hey some of the smartest people I know are some of the dumbest people I know, myself included. 
2. They're in a rush, they know something is going to be a problem but "ship now fix later" and they kick the can down the road.
3. They know very well that X is going to be a mechanic but whoever is in charge is hellbent that the playerbase will either learn to love X or just learn to deal.  

For issue one, hire someone dumb who's only job is to be "that guy" at the meeting to bring up dumb people thoughts like "Hey, whut if duh lich steals my anti lich stuff?..... I like money"

For issue two, that's a bit of a, whelp you can only do what you can do sorta thing. 

Now for issue three.... and there have been quite a few instances where things have been implemented in what honestly feels like an intentionally contrived way, for example Fetch. When that was first implemented with Fortuna.... it was a serious WTF? moment. Cause I can't in any world see how that implementation is something that would have flown. To me Fetch felt outright obstinate, like whoever was in charge of it didn't want any more vacuum in the game but their boss was breathing down their neck so "fine I'll implement it.... but you won't like it". 

Tho Hanlon's Razor would suggest that maybe they just needed that dumb guy in the meeting to say more dumb people stuff. Course that assumes that they're really play testing things, I assume they are.... problem there is whoever is play testing for them and greenlit that, clearly doesn't have a playstyle that accurately mirrors the general playerbase. Kinda like as an individual you need to find a critic who's opinions mirror your own, otherwise their critical opinion of (insert reviewed media) doesn't mean squat to you. So they need someone play testing who's views align more with the playerbase.

Double Tho, there was also a lot of "you're gonna hate your Lich" from the devs with the *nudge nudge wink wink* implication that because you hate it you're going to enjoy hunting it down and killing it.... so I'm kinda leaning towards absolute disconnect angle at least with regards to this particular scenario where they knew it was going to be a thing but somehow thought people would like it? 

sry that got kinda ramblie 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Oreades

[Avienas]

3 minutes ago, Miser_able said:

They can steal from you when you do missions on a planet they have control on. I made the mistake of doing a fissure on one of they're planets. 

So its not the nodes they can yoink, but long as they have influence on a single node, everywhere on that planet is pickings for it, working like a reverse dark sector map in two different forms. Affecting the entire planet and pilfering what you `acquire`.

[Oreades]

3 minutes ago, Avienas said:

So its not the nodes they can yoink, but long as they have influence on a single node, everywhere on that planet is pickings for it, working like a reverse dark sector map in two different forms. Affecting the entire planet and pilfering what you `acquire`.

correct, a single influence node opens up every node on the planet to them with regards to stealing your loot. 

[Avienas]

32 minutes ago, Oreades said:

correct, a single influence node opens up every node on the planet to them with regards to stealing your loot. 

Well, glad i am making, as a console player, to get all the prep work done in advance. Preparing 75 forma to cover all the weapons, grendel and his meat grinder, and maybe need to throw in another 5 for the kavat is a slight pain though. Trace stock is perfectly ready, though i might be fetching medalions after so i can get maybe up to 6 weapon exilus Bp via syndicates, instead of just 3, to save me even less care to chase the relics for weapon exilus adapters or waste 20 plat per for them.

Guess thats one small boon that reload speed, magazine size, fire rate utilities like spring-loaded magazine and so on were not included, since that would make easily a dozen or two dozen weapons i would want slot unlockers for. Plus i would need to make sure each of them are set on the forma.

The less i have to do ONCE IT DOES come in console, the more i can focus on getting thru the lich rounds, pray i get high rolls on the weapons i `definitely want to keep`, so i especially do not need to do another 5 forma on the same kuva weapon, just because i got higher %es on what i want. Still feels like some better rewards should be present, then just the kuva weapon, to help justify them able to pinch your loot from anywhere on the planet, basically.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Avienas

[Miser_able]

4 hours ago, Avienas said:

So its not the nodes they can yoink, but long as they have influence on a single node, everywhere on that planet is pickings for it, working like a reverse dark sector map in two different forms. Affecting the entire planet and pilfering what you `acquire`.

Seems that way but you can also complete that single node to remove their control over that planet.